Back to the track I went, no 12's but had fun.

[turbovanman²]

Got there, sky was dark so I was hoping to get one run in. Decided to run it as I brung it for my first run. Unloaded all my crap, added one gallon C16 to the very low tank of 94 Chevron and headed out. Running 15psi, worn Continental street tires and one very slippy track. I backed off my kickdown cable 3 notches hoping it would lower my WOT shift points. I do a quick dry hop and running against my friends modded 86 Z24. I net a 2.5 60ft to his 2.3, I was watching my tach and it shifted at 5800 rpm, woo hoo, I thought I had left it in 2nd but no, left it in 3rd and it shifted into 3rd at 5800 rpm. I ran a 15.2@90.5 mph to his 16.4@86. I was flickering the pig rich led on my Dawes and the boost held steady. As usual, crowd went nuts.

Happier than a pig in sh*t, I decide to take baby steps. Reduced fuel pressure by 1/2 turn and mounted my 22 inch slicks. Did a quick burnout so as not to blow up my diff and staged against the Z24 again, 2.3 60ft and netted a 14.8@89 mph. Fuel was good but was starting to get cold out. Slicks were cold when I came back to the pits.

Turn the MBC in 4 turns and go back out. Slight burnout again and staged, 2.3 60ft and it pulled hard then got soft, spluttered and caught itself onand off, hit 22 psi and ran a 14.9@93.5mph.

I change the plugs and reset my cam timing, I was 2 deg advanced so I put it to 1 deg retarded. Figure it would help my launch. LIght burnout and stage next to some weird 13 sec Toyota 2 seater???? Not an MR2, anyhow, nail the start, my .322 to his .580 but he got a 2.2 60 ft to my 2.4 but the van pulled hard, really hard and I pulled out past him up till the 1/8th mile then the van started spluttering, and went lean?????????? peddled it and ran a 16@79.6 to his 13.9@96.

At this point, I went back and turned up the fuel pressure one turn and waited but they cancelled the rest of the night, getting to cold they said, the track was damp.

So, I have decided that I will never see 13's or 12's and I guess I can deal with it, :censored: I believe my cal is my issue and will either try to borrow a known good working cal or go back to stock. The crowd loves me, I have a constant crowd around my van, girls saying how cool it is, older woman wanting there husbands to build them one and according to Boost Geek, the V8 guys who never watch Sport Compact all go to the fences to watch me. All in all, I learned alot and I guess I will just go out and have fun and never reach my goal, :(

[Will Martin]

Wow....man, I'm speechless. How can you be so close, but yet so far? I hear the track out there is a bit slippery since it's new, makes me afraid to even run my GLH. I'll aim low as to not disappoint myself and shoot for 15's! lol

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, its slimey, the RWD boys and a few fast Sport Compacts were running 14's and trapping over 100 mph, :eek:

[Will Martin]

You know what's sad? (Off topic) I just checked and you and I are the only registered users on the forum now! lol

I'll try to go out next week, my new fuel rail and HOPEFULLY new cal we be in! (Fingers crossed).

[turbovanman²]

You know what's sad? (Off topic) I just checked and you and I are the only registered users on the forum now! lol

I'll try to go out next week, my new fuel rail and HOPEFULLY new cal we be in! (Fingers crossed).

Wow, that is sad, lol!

Awesome, I should be out again next week, we can play together, :eyebrows:

[boost geek]

There will be three...:eyebrows:

[3Bar_Mopar]

Expect nothing, gain everything. Work hard and whatever happens, happens.

[Whorse]

Soon there will be VNT convertible at the track with you to take some of the heat off.

[Hemidare]

I will be there next week if i can get my fuel problems fixed!

[turbovanman²]

Wow, should be a good time next week, :thumb:

Shitty, just checked the schedule, no racing next week, next Friday night dealio is May 5th, :mad:

[Keito]

Wow, should be a good time next week, :thumb:

Shitty, just checked the schedule, no racing next week, next Friday night dealio is May 5th, :mad:

What electronics are you running?
Ever consider getting a custom cal?

[turbovanman²]

What electronics are you running?
Ever consider getting a custom cal?


I have one, doesn't seem to be working right. Stock.

[Marcus86GLHS]

SIMON you had fun? then you were successful.

one of the things i learned was to set your goal, then build/modify accordingly, using the dyno to tune and determine actual HP figures (dont estimate) and base your expectations on those dyno numbers and your actual measured race weight.

it is actually not too hard or very expensive to get these cars into the 12's with this approach. you'll do it i bet.

[BadAssPerformance]

... I believe my cal is my issue and will either try to borrow a known good working cal or go back to stock....

+1 on the stock cal, back to basics is a good path.


The crowd loves me, I have a constant crowd around my van, girls saying how cool it is, older woman wanting there husbands to build them one and according to Boost Geek, the V8 guys who never watch Sport Compact all go to the fences to watch me. All in all, I learned alot and I guess I will just go out and have fun and never reach my goal, :(

I can imagine all the hot chicks... "Ooooo TurboVanMan, whatcha got under the hood big boy?"... ROFL...

Yeah, Turbo Vans are definitely crown pleasers... Paul Smith was getting standing ovations!

[Turbodave]

+
I can imagine all the hot chicks... "Ooooo TurboVanMan, whatcha got under the hood big boy?"... ROFL...



Just gotta watch out for the extra set of teeth on those canadian girls...;)

[turbovanman²]

Just gotta watch out for the extra set of teeth on those canadian girls...;)

You guys, :eyebrows: :lol:

Its nice having really hot chicks, although not as hot as my gf, :eyebrows: coming up and going, wow, I/we love your van, :nod:
THAT makes it all worthwhile.



+1 on the stock cal, back to basics is a good path.
!

Just going to start a process of elimination. Have to start somewhere, it can't be my setup, it just can't be, lol!

[Dave]

It's traction first off.... a 2.3 s/t? C'mon Simon, I can do that on street tires! Get a 1.9 and you'll be set to low 13's I'll betcha. Then turn that boost up some more and 12's will be right there. You don't want my dad to finish building the long mini van and hit 12's before you do, do yeh? :eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

It's traction first off.... a 2.3 s/t? C'mon Simon, I can do that on street tires! Get a 1.9 and you'll be set to low 13's I'll betcha. Then turn that boost up some more and 12's will be right there. You don't want my dad to finish building the long mini van and hit 12's before you do, do yeh? :eyebrows:

I can't lauch it, the track is brand new, its like glass. Plus this time, didn't do a big burn out, so the slicks weren't grippy.

I did turn the boost up, went SLOWER. I ran a 14.8 at 15 psi and then turned it up to 22 ish and ran 15's and 16's. I have another cal coming so we'll try that and see what happens.

[cordes]

Simon, what have you done to try and get the car to hook with both wheels?

Shimmed the swat bar, etc?

[boost geek]

Simon, what have you done to try and get the car to hook with both wheels?

Shimmed the swat bar, etc?
He bought an OBX:thumb: Cant wait to see what he can do with it. There will be no holding him back in the burnout box now:D

[cordes]

He bought an OBX:thumb: Cant wait to see what he can do with it. There will be no holding him back in the burnout box now:D

That should do it for sure. After seeing some of the problems with diffs latly, I have moved that to the top of the list for my next big purchase.

[boost geek]

Now we have the ultimate "test mule" :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Simon, what have you done to try and get the car to hook with both wheels?

Shimmed the swat bar, etc?

I shimmed the sway bar and removed the jack from the right fender well. With street tires or DR's, it would spin both with an open diff. Now with a AB insert and slicks, it will only spin one wheel, :(


Hahhhaha, if I can't break it, no one can, muhahahaahahaha :eyebrows:

[cordes]

I shimmed the sway bar and removed the jack from the right fender well. With street tires or DR's, it would spin both with an open diff. Now with a AB insert and slicks, it will only spin one wheel, :(


Hahhhaha, if I can't break it, no one can, muhahahaahahaha :eyebrows:

Boy, that's a kick in the pants.

[boost geek]

Would sure be cool to do 1 pass with my car and your slicks (wink, wink, nudge, nudge):eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

Would sure be cool to do 1 pass with my car and your slicks (wink, wink, nudge, nudge):eyebrows:

I don't know if I will be in town for the next legals, you can borrow them if your nice and don't beat the crap out of them, :p

[mw6886]

... spluttered and caught itself onand off, hit 22 psi and ran a 14.9@93.5mph.

I change the plugs ...

So, I have decided that I will never see 13's or 12's and I guess I can deal with it, :censored: I believe my cal is my issue... :(

What kind of plugs and what gap are you running?

I don't think the cal is the issue... :confused:

[TrrboJeep]

anyhow, nail the start, my .322 to his .580 but he got a 2.2 60 ft to my 2.4 but the van pulled hard, really hard and I pulled out past him up till the 1/8th mile then the van started spluttering, and went lean?????????? peddled it and ran a 16@79.6 to his 13.9@96.

So, I have decided that I will never see 13's
I think this run prooves that 13's are possible Simon. Even with your 2.4 60' time you still pulled out past him through the first 8th mile. If the van would have not faultered in the last 8th, you would have most likely taken him.
You would have beaten his 13.9. :nod:

If you can track down the sputtering issue (at higher boost) on the top end, you'll be there (13's). :eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

What kind of plugs and what gap are you running?

I don't think the cal is the issue... :confused:

Please elaborate! one run its lean, next run its rich, then it lays down, then it runs good. It ran perfect and runs perfect at 15 psi, as soon as the boost goes up, it runs like sh*t. Plugs are NKG BR9ES gapped at .030 with an Aurora coil, same setup I got 14.1 at years ago. Its can't be the engine, engines don't change rich, lean etc so the cal is the next logical choice. Either way, I have another chip coming or will try my stock cal. Process of elimination. If the cal is good then great, if not, great, :p

[mw6886]

Gap your plugs down to .020ish (.025 is ok) then crank up the boost. See what happens.

What it sounds like to me is spark blow out. Get the spark figured out, and I bet the rest will come naturally. (Guessing you have some issues with knock as well.)

[turbovanman²]

Gap your plugs down to .020ish (.025 is ok) then crank up the boost. See what happens.

What it sounds like to me is spark blow out. Get the spark figured out, and I bet the rest will come naturally. (Guessing you have some issues with knock as well.)


Its not misfiring and I have no more knock now I can WOT it. That coil will fire a flamethrower spark.

But I will try the regap.

[Frank]

What kind of boost are you running again? What size supply and return lines for your fuel?


Frank

[turbovanman²]

What kind of boost are you running again? What size supply and return lines for your fuel?


Frank


Only 22 psi, stock fuel lines, ported 2 piece fuel rail, 255 walbro pump, accufab FPR.

[Frank]

You might want to think about using your stock supply line as the return, and installing a larger supply line. It is my understanding that you can get very unperdictable results when taxing your fuel lines.


Frank

[turbovanman²]

You might want to think about using your stock supply line as the return, and installing a larger supply line. It is my understanding that you can get very unperdictable results when taxing your fuel lines.


Frank

Corby and Paul Smith used the stock lines so It can't be that. I might look into that later though, :thumb:

[boost geek]

I don't know if I will be in town for the next legals, you can borrow them if your nice and don't beat the crap out of them, :p
My car probably wont be ready by then, but it would be neat to do 1 pass on slicks. I dont know if my clutch will even handle slicks. I'll do it when your there so you can see the pieces fly:eyebrows:

[Ubmbass]

Yeah, i really don't think that the fuel lines are the problem at all.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, i really don't think that the fuel lines are the problem at all.

...unless one is kinked or crushed somewhere?

[Whorse]

Maybe I'm out of line suggesting this, and don't hate me for it Simon, but I've driven your van, and it is HEAVY. The suspension is nothing close to stock, which probably helps cut down on squatting on launches and shifting, but puts more strain on the drivetrain.

My VNT is heavy at over 3300 pounds, and it's only a car. You've got a higher model van with lots of features, and nothing is removed in it. I know it's been done, but I still think that all this weight you have is putting a lot of extra stress on your drivetrain. I can see you hitting some nice 13s with a few issues sorted out, but I don't think any of the 12 second minivans out there are running full stock interiors.

I know it's really tempting as well, but hey, it's only April, and maybe it would help to set your goals for PSI and not ETs, and aim for half way through the summer. Start at 16psi because 15 seems to work well. If 16 starts well at the track one day, turn it up to 17 and leave it there and have some fun with it. If nothing else I think you're going to have a lot more fun knowing you have the potential to do more, while still tweaking your times at lower boost and pulling in some decent slips.

Anyhow just my two cents, regardless what happens I'm happy to see you're still giving it all you've got out there.

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^Thanks man, :thumb:

I know its heavy but I should be making alot more power than a stock engine. Anyhow, on a good note, my money showed up for the OBX and its getting shipped this week, T2 Shadow should see his money friday or monday so then my spacer plate will be here in a couple weeks. I have another cal coming so I can bang my head somemore or smile, :thumb:

[Whorse]

Do you take out your sub, amp, back seats etc... when you race? With the OBX it won't be as bad, but I think all that weight and power with slicks would just rape the differential you had.

[blk86trbo]

Simon,

If I was gonna make a guess, I'd say your fuel is sloshing around and your pump is sucking air. You said you started out with a very low tank, and only added a gallon. My Shadow will sputter and act all strange at the track with anything less than a 1/4 tank...I'd try racing with a 1/2 tank of fuel. That would explain you running rich (until the fuel gets thrown to the back of the tank and it's suddenly "lean").

Also, when running my Shadow above 20psi, I have to gap my plugs at .025. The spark would blow out at .030.

Good luck!

Paul

[blk86trbo]

Hmmm...I just read your first post again, and I'd bet you need more fuel in your tank.

On your first pass, with the slower 60 foot, no problems.

Added some slicks, and the launch threw the fuel to the back of the tank. Hence the stumble at the start.

You added more boost, a little slower 60 foot, but the van pulled harder for longer, and it stumbled farther down the track.

Again, just my opinion, but I think you need more fuel in the tank.

Good luck,

Paul

[TrrboJeep]

/\/\/\ +1 (good call) :nod:

Simon, how much fuel was in your tank when you were running the low 14's on the stock mitsu? about the same as last weekend, or more? might be on to something? :eyebrows:

I have had this happen to me at the track by running too little fuel in the tank. I always try to have at least 1/3 - 1/2 a tank. :)
If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is usually the simplest of problems that causes us the most major of headaches! I would hate to see you changing your cal, cam timing, and such, for a simple fuel starvation thing. :nod:
What ever is wrong with my Jeep at the current moment, is something small, but causing me major headaches in tracking it down. I have walked away from it for now. I parked it until I have the time, patience, and beer to figure it out? :p

[turbovanman²]

Jason, sub box removed and rear seat so the cargo area is empty.


Paul, something to consider. I always drag with a low tank, even when I ran my 14.1 and 14.2. When I did the 14.2 the other week, my low fuel light was on, hahhhahaa. It doesn't stumble off the line but launches well then acts funny. It won't recatch which is weird. BTW, never ran the van with the Mitsu, ever, :eyebrows: Next time out, will add more fuel and see what happens.

[mw6886]

Have you gapped your plugs down yet?

[BadAssPerformance]

Jason, sub box removed and rear seat so the cargo area is empty.


Paul, something to consider. I always drag with a low tank, even when I ran my 14.1 and 14.2. When I did the 14.2 the other week, my low fuel light was on, hahhhahaa. It doesn't stumble off the line but launches well then acts funny. It won't recatch which is weird. BTW, never ran the van with the Mitsu, ever, :eyebrows: Next time out, will add more fuel and see what happens.

Paul might be on to something... with low fuel and slicks, you can stand all the fuel up against the back of the gas tank when you launch. I won't run my shadow with less than 1/4 tank...

[turbovanman²]

Have you gapped your plugs down yet?

Not yet, won't be able to make it back out for a few weeks, bike racing and other sh*t going on.

[TrrboJeep]

It doesn't stumble off the line but launches well then acts funny. It won't recatch which is weird.
This scenario is typical of fuel starvation.
Your fine on the launch because your sitting still at the tree, and the lines are full. Once you launch, and are under way, all the fuel is flung up against the back of the tank, as Paul mentioned, and held there for a few seconds. At this point the pump is sucking air into the lines. The motor will run fine for 4-5 seconds off the line, because of the fuel in the lines, but once the air bubble reaches the fuel rail she'll start to sputter. :nod:
Once the run is over the fuel lines are refilled by the pump and it runs fine.

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^^^^I know fuel starvation and it doesn't act like it. Oh well, a bunch of things to try next time out. All good ideas. Sometimes, you get lost in the forest by the tree's, :eyebrows:

[Will Martin]

...Sometimes, you get lost in the forest by the tree's, :eyebrows:

I had that happen to me last week, except it was some bushes I was lost in.:drum: :focus:

[turbovanman²]

I don't even want to know what/who's bushes, :eyebrows:

[Lee'sdaytona]

I don't even want to know what/who's bushes, :eyebrows:
haha, oh no....
All this talk has me excited for possibly buying a turbo mini. I wonder how long a 520 will hold up at the track..lol...it was rebuilt a few years back but there has always been a seal somewhere that leaks....oil level stays normal...anyway, :focus:
Can't wait till I can get some girls with my stick shift mini, painted Plum crazy purple:nod:
-Lee

[turbovanman²]

Can't wait till I can get some girls with my stick shift mini, painted Plum crazy purple:nod:
-Lee


Yep, the van is all about getting the chicks, :thumb:

[3Bar_Mopar]

I wonder how long a 520 will hold up at the track..lol...it was rebuilt a few years back but there has always been a seal somewhere that leaks....oil level stays normal...
-Lee


I wouldn't run an A-520 in a heavy van without the end plate....otherwise you should be fine.

[Lee'sdaytona]

end plate? Familiarize me, since I don't know much about transmissions.

I did't even get the van yet and my mom is jealous. She had an 89 and a 93 (3.0 LE modles) and by the time the 93 was on its way out, my dad insisted no more caravans....now she drives a Buick Park Ave "the old fart car" and hates it. So I told her I'd let her drive it while its still automatic as she can't drive a stick :nod: Plus her fav color is purple...
Yeah Just imagine if I get a convert-a-bed in there! Woo :thumb:
-Lee
EDIT: Oh wait, is that the plate that racers install around the tranny so if it blows up, it won't scatter parts everywhere?

[mcsvt]

I think he is talking about the Moly Plate. Strengthens the case. OMNI-Potent is a dealer on here and sells them. I have a picture of one in my gallery.

Here it is:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0424.JPG

[Lee'sdaytona]

oh alright...so I guess it would be fairly simple to install while swapping trannies anyway? And I'm sure it can't be too costly....
-Lee

[turbovanman²]

Its cheaper than grenading a trans, :thumb:

[shadow88]

Top end miss-fire. my shadow did that when it was really hot out, have you tried knocking back the ignition timing a few degrees?

I know it's not hot in b.c. at this time of year, but about 6 deg. fixed by miss-fire.

Possible cheap repair.

[MoparN75]

Had same problem with my Lebaron...regapped plugs, {I think they're at 25 now}...easy fix, night and day difference. I run Champion RN9YC.

[BARRON]

Congrats on the runs Simon.. you had a good time and the van got some respect. Mission accomplished as far as I can see! :)

Hopefully I'll have my van in the low 14's by the end of the summer. The stuff to complete the rebuild should be in next week and hopefully a month will see it rollin right

Fresh 2.5 block
T2@14psi, big FMIC /w 2.5" tubing
Ported Head/exhaust manifold
full 2.5" exhaust
Slightly reduced weight. at race(about 400+Lbs)

14's?? Hope so! :)

[turbovanman²]

Barron, sounds like fun, let us know how fast it goes, :thumb:

[Garret]

I was going to say try running some warmer Champions seems like your plugs are too cold to me... Maybe try doing a few passes on some RN11YCs or RNY12YCs

[turbovanman²]

My OBX showed up today so we will see if I can get installed for Friday night.

[Directconnection]

My OBX showed up today so we will see if I can get installed for Friday night.

Simon...I'm late on this thread, but I take it you had a stumbling issue at the track? You are running over 20 psi, correct? Then I think you should be gapping your plugs down as someone said earlier from the instances I have seen.

Fuel starvation...had that happen on my VNT. 3,400 rpms in 2nd, hit the gas and bah-blaaaaaah! No 4 second delay whatsoever.

[turbovanman²]

Simon...I'm late on this thread, but I take it you had a stumbling issue at the track? You are running over 20 psi, correct? Then I think you should be gapping your plugs down as someone said earlier from the instances I have seen.

Fuel starvation...had that happen on my VNT. 3,400 rpms in 2nd, hit the gas and bah-blaaaaaah! No 4 second delay whatsoever.


Going to run more gas-do a run, then regap-do a run. I have run this gap before with no problems. One thing at a time to see if I can narrow it down, :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

"baby steps" and you turn the boost controller in 4 turns?!? Simon, 1 psi at a time :) I think you need to step down to egg and sperm steps :)

[turbovanman²]

"baby steps" and you turn the boost controller in 4 turns?!? Simon, 1 psi at a time :) I think you need to step down to egg and sperm steps :)


Go big or go home, heheehhee, :p

[Directconnection]

Going to run more gas-do a run, then regap-do a run. I have run this gap before with no problems. One thing at a time to see if I can narrow it down, :thumb:

YUP!

Too bad you couldn't run that on a dyno.

[turbovanman²]

YUP!

Too bad you couldn't run that on a dyno.

I know, I just don't have time right now, so much sh*t going on. :(

[Ground Rat]

You don't have these problems when you do test runs on the street? Or do you do all your tuning at the track?

[turbovanman²]

You don't have these problems when you do test runs on the street? Or do you do all your tuning at the track?

I don't run more than 15psi on the street.

[DanSRT-4]

hey hey

[turbovanman²]

hey hey


?????????? :confused:

[Ground Rat]

Well I'm sure you'll get your 13's, then 12's, and all in a full weight minivan. That will be cool.

[turbovanman²]

Well I'm sure you'll get your 13's, then 12's, and all in a full weight minivan. That will be cool.

yEP, that would be cool, :nod: :thumb:

[cordes]

yEP, that would be cool, :nod: :thumb:

No pressure or any thing, but is any one else close to running 12s in a full weight van? You are the only one I am aware of that is even going to be in the 13s?

[turbovanman²]

No pressure or any thing, but is any one else close to running 12s in a full weight van? You are the only one I am aware of that is even going to be in the 13s?

The only pressure is me trying to do it. I think BIG PSI did a 13.9 or something with his full size mini????????

My chip showed up today so I have my OBX and chip to play with, :eyebrows:

[gasketmaster]

No pressure or any thing, but is any one else close to running 12s in a full weight van? You are the only one I am aware of that is even going to be in the 13s?

I ran 12.69@106 at 3350 lbs.

Interior is completely stock other than jacking the two back seats out when I race ;)

I have no A/C components under the hood but that's more than made up for by my belly :D

If I need to throw the A/C components in the back to qualify I will but I really don't think it will show up on the time slip ;)

[turbovanman²]

Grrrrrrrr, need some shim's to set the preload and I don't have the correct combination, this is getting tiresome, :mad:

[BadAssPerformance]

If I need to throw the A/C components in the back to qualify I will but I really don't think it will show up on the time slip ;)

Well if 100lbs ~ 1 tenth in a car I'm sure it is much less in something as aerodynamic as a tool shed.

[turbovanman²]

Well if 100lbs ~ 1 tenth in a car I'm sure it is much less in something as aerodynamic as a tool shed.

I like that, :lol: