Spirit R/T Questions....

[tsiconquest88]

I found a pretty nice red one locally. Guy said it has a rod knock though as per last week. Is this a commin issue with them? if i were to buy the car and rebuild is there something i can do at rebuild time that is specific to correct the common prob (if of course it is common like i asked.) thanks just want some info before i possibly pick this bad boy up. As much info as u can give would be awsome guys!!! I dont really want to go into such a car without an idea of what these are like.

[Blue Iroc R/T]

The bottom end on the T-III's is usually pretty strong. That is unless the intermediate Shaft/Oil pump go. That is pretty common. When that goes, if the engine isn't shut off quick, it can send shavings to the bottom end and ruin the bearings.
Buying one that is known bad is sometimes better than buying one that is suppose to be good and then find out it is bad soon after you have paid good money for it. Getting one that is bad, knowing that you are going to have to pull the engine, and go thru everything, means that you will end up having a car that you know what's in the engine. If you can get it for $1200 or less, IMHO, Get it! Rebuild it, put a cometic head gasket, ARP Studs, check out the turbo, new timing belt and new rod/main bearings, turn the crank, check the I-Shaft and Oil Pump and a new gasket set and you are good as gold. :thumb:
Good Luck

[tsiconquest88]

sounds good. the guy said he will throw in a new 50 trim turbo to boot, he bought it to put on and ended up havin the rod issue. How much u think i could look to spend for new rods (if needed) and any other parts? im just gauging this out as i heard they are expensive engines to build? And as for the better broken thing, i agree. Didnt really think of it that way, which typically i do but since my understanding that the t3 engines are expensive i was kind of turned to a known running engine over this knocking one lol. How is the head on them? besides the plug mod people do? Can u delete the I-shaft on these motors and is it beneicial to do for them?

[cordes]

If I am not mistaken, the TIII uses the common TII/2.5 rods also. IMO our long blocks are relatively pricey to put together. The Head is what will really kill you when it's time to start replacing parts for the TIII though.

As stated previously, $1200 or less and I would jump on it. For that price you can part it out an be almost certain to recoup your losses if it comes to it.

[rx2mazda]

I found a pretty nice red one locally. Guy said it has a rod knock though as per last week. Is this a commin issue with them? if i were to buy the car and rebuild is there something i can do at rebuild time that is specific to correct the common prob (if of course it is common like i asked.) thanks just want some info before i possibly pick this bad boy up. As much info as u can give would be awsome guys!!! I dont really want to go into such a car without an idea of what these are like.

I don't think rod knock is "common" for any engine!:D


The bottom end on the T-III's is usually pretty strong. That is unless the intermediate Shaft/Oil pump go. That is pretty common. When that goes, if the engine isn't shut off quick, it can send shavings to the bottom end and ruin the bearings.
Buying one that is known bad is sometimes better than buying one that is suppose to be good and then find out it is bad soon after you have paid good money for it. Getting one that is bad, knowing that you are going to have to pull the engine, and go thru everything, means that you will end up having a car that you know what's in the engine. If you can get it for $1200 or less, IMHO, Get it! Rebuild it, put a cometic head gasket, ARP Studs, check out the turbo, new timing belt and new rod/main bearings, turn the crank, check the I-Shaft and Oil Pump and a new gasket set and you are good as gold. :thumb:
Good Luck

I don't think any I-shaft fails instantly. Pretty sure they shave away gradually all the while circulating shavings through every passage until enough material is gone and then it goes rapidly and loses oil pressure. Shutting the car off fast might save it from knocking or locking up though. O'm guessing it hasn't lost oil pressure since its still running? I agree about knowing what your getting into beforehand and the price and mod list.


sounds good. the guy said he will throw in a new 50 trim turbo to boot, he bought it to put on and ended up havin the rod issue. How much u think i could look to spend for new rods (if needed) and any other parts? im just gauging this out as i heard they are expensive engines to build? And as for the better broken thing, i agree. Didnt really think of it that way, which typically i do but since my understanding that the t3 engines are expensive i was kind of turned to a known running engine over this knocking one lol. How is the head on them? besides the plug mod people do? Can u delete the I-shaft on these motors and is it beneicial to do for them?

No, you can't delete the I-shaft........easily. The head is great if it's in good condition. Like Cordes said, thats were thing get expensive and hard to come buy. VERY EXPENSIVE. I wouldn't even worry about the rod knock now since you know you need a rebuild on the bottom end. CHECK THE HEAD, pul the valve covers and check the cams, rockers, lifters, rollers. Start it and let it get up to temp, take a ride and see if the head is leaking around the core plugs. If there are problems with the head I would stay away unless your ready for a headache and moneypit.


IMO our long blocks are relatively pricey to put together.

You mean short blocks? Try rebuilding a rotary and you will know what expensive is all about.

[tsiconquest88]

I don't think rod knock is "common" for any engine!

Well actually some engines are more suseptable to it as why i asked how the t3 was. Since they use t2 rod/pistons as cordes said i would think its not too much of an issue though. Heck we had brand new subarus comming in with turbos going out (all the turbo wagons mainly) turned out the no.3 main bearings were goin out and tossin metal through the oil, ruining the turbo and eventually gonna eat the rest of the bearings. This is what i mean when i asked is this rod knock thing common. Various engines have various issues. Again just seein what i was gettin into. Things dont seem too bad with these i guess i gotta watch this head then. If the head is leaking around the core plugs isnt that ok since people just do that mod to them? or when they leak is that already too late?

[rx2mazda]

Well actually some engines are more suseptable to it as why i asked how the t3 was. Since they use t2 rod/pistons as cordes said i would think its not too much of an issue though. Heck we had brand new subarus comming in with turbos going out (all the turbo wagons mainly) turned out the no.3 main bearings were goin out and tossin metal through the oil, ruining the turbo and eventually gonna eat the rest of the bearings. This is what i mean when i asked is this rod knock thing common. Various engines have various issues. Again just seein what i was gettin into. Things dont seem too bad with these i guess i gotta watch this head then. If the head is leaking around the core plugs isnt that ok since people just do that mod to them? or when they leak is that already too late?

I knew what you were getting at, I was being sarcastic hence the smiley face. I take it you don't currently own a TD? They are the same (essentially) bottom end as the 8v TII/TIV. The head leaking being ok is up to you. I wouldn't really call it a MOD that we do, it's a repair to fix a major problem/flaw. Gotta strip it down and send it to Wallace and that cost. Once the head is welded you should never have that problem again though. If the cams are scored or the journals in the head are all gouged up you will be kicking yourself. No easy way to check the journals in the car though so thats a gamble you gotta take. If the price is right and the head is messed up, you can still make most if not all of your money back parting it. R/T has the best brakes and suspension set-up of the TD's and best tranny. So, selling those and whatever parts that are good from the head could earn you some money.

To rebuild the head right while it is apart you will want to put......
Titanium retainers, 275$
new valve seals, 50$
valve cover gaskets, 104$:(
timing belt, 40$
intake and exhaust gaskets, 41$
head gasket, 140$ (optional)
Head bolts, 80$
lifters, 430$
That almost 1200.00 for a head that is in good condition otherwise, like mine:nod:. That is the TIII way, lol. You could skimp though and save some money up front but it may cost you later. Plus the cost of the bottom end rebuild. I would like to see the R/T saved though and I wish you the best of luck. keep us posted.

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^^

Agreed, the bottom end is like a regular one except a forged crank, which is harder to find and way more expensive but you can use a cast 2.2 if you want.

As for the head, thats the money, if the cams are going or you need rocker arms, you better have a thick wallet.

I have an R/T here missing the top end, I might just put a Neon head on or put an 8 valve engine in, :thumb:

[cordes]

You mean short blocks? Try rebuilding a rotary and you will know what expensive is all about.

Yes, I meant the short block. I'm sure the guys at NASA could show all of us what expensive is all about, but relatively speaking they're still a bit high IMO.

[tsiconquest88]

I take it you don't currently own a TD?

No i do lol. an 89 turbo mini which in fact a t1 so technically no i dont know anyting t2 lol. And yea i understand all ur sayin and i agree. All good man. Also i will def let everyone know as i have wanted an RT for a veeeery long time. All i ended up with so far TM wise is a 89 tona which ---- the bed a long time ago after a year of pretty much trouble free daily driving. And now the turbo mini which im swapping to 520 trans. Got pretty much everything i need for now gotta start working on it lol. HArd to find time. I am probably getting the RT as long as its still available when im ready. Maybe the guy will let me put a deposit, idk gotta talk to him again and big thing look at it of course first.

[Blue Iroc R/T]

Here is what to look for on the head; http://www.pbase.com/rmscott/image/48911867/medium
This pic had dye penetrant that make the crack show up better, so you will just be looking for sighs of antifreeze between the center core plug and #3 Spark Plug. Here are more pics of the head and some pics of one after weld repair. http://www.pbase.com/rmscott/blue_rt_head
Good Luck!

[tsiconquest88]

interesting so as it looks the repair also actually seals up that plug? i see weld around the plug so i take it it is sealed down a certain point and the plug left out? Thats just how it looks in the pic and what im gathering from it as it looks like the plug is no longer there and aluminum is on the hole?

[rx2mazda]

No. You screw in a aluminum plug and have it permanently welded in.

[tsiconquest88]

oh ok, basically what i thought but just didnt know of the screw in place. So who does this here i think someone mentioned above but elaborate some, which member username and how much? JIC lol

[rx2mazda]

Wallace aka mopar2ya aka lonewolf performance aka the man with the pink bike. LOL

[Blue Iroc R/T]

I in no way mean to cut into Wallace's business. He is good and from everthing I know about him he performs a great service. If you are wanting to get the head ported and welded and a lot done to the head, Wallace is the place to go. But IF you know someone local to you that is good at welding aluminum, then this welding is not a very hard job. The one shown in the pics on my site is one that I purchased already done from a TM member so that I could pull my cracked (18,000 mile head) and swap in a finished head immediately. Then I took my 18k cracked head to a Weld Engineer that I work with and had him weld it up and then put it on the shelf. I still need to get it to a machine shop and have a valve job and mill the surface to ensure that it is perfectly flat after welding. (highly recommended). IF you do use someone local, do a little research to make yourself comfortable that they know what they are doing and will do a good job for you. Any local engine repair/machine shop that does valve jobs should be able to do a valve job and mill the head for you. (again, I would check them out first).
Like Carroll said, install a alum. plug and weld around the plug to seal it, because the crack does crack thru the threads and welding when they weld the threads, then you must grind out the threads in that local area or try to re-tap the thread. So you may not have a perfect thread seal on that plug so you need to weld around it to ensure a good seal.
Good luck! And IF you get this R/T, there are a lot of good/knowledgeable people on here that will be glad to help you if you need it.

[tsiconquest88]

Pink bike? ftl lol As for local people? no prob not gonna use them. I dont mind using lonewolf. There is one local engine perf place i do use but i build all my own motors/heads. All i have him do is bore. chemical clean and hone, and Balancing. turning a crank if needed etc. Installing pistons on the rods. thats about it. I take my own measurements and built the engine. Basically anything needing machinery he does haha. Oh and milling the block and head. Anyway thanks for everyones insite. anything any one has to say feel free!!! See what happens. Otherwise there is other one out there too, this guy was just local and in very nice shape.