Turboing a 3.8 AWD Minivan???

[turbovanman²]

I know turbocharging a 3.3 is a dismal waste but what about a 3.8? Bakes just scored me a mint 2nd Gen 3.8 AWD. I could turbo that or put a 3.0L in. Thoughts, idea's????????? :amen:

[blk86trbo]

My parents purchased a brand new 95 Town and Country with the 3.8. They put close to 200k miles on it, and never had a single problem with the engine. In fact when they sold it, it still ran awesome...so the 3.8 gets my vote!

No matter what you decide, I think we need some pics of this beast :thumb:

[zin]

Damn, that is the quick way to a turbo, AWD mopar! :D

Mike

[Aries_Turbo]

you may get away with low boost with the stock motor. id want to see a pic of a rod and piston first though.

im a little leery of sending that much torque (2 mitsus would be great for this or something like a holset) through a 41TE with stock shift programming. the smooth shifts would KILL the trans in a hurry. what do the PT turbo guys do when they crank the boost with the auto.

i wouldnt do this without that 750$ trans controller that racerstev has or this http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24 when its done and ready to go. steve is testing it on a caravan with a 2.4L turbo setup. :)

i know the trans is strong but im hesitant on doing high torque turbo on the stock programming with nothing else done to firm up the shifts.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

Rob was or is? working on something, I can just use an earlier computer reprogrammed or go the Racerstev route. I am cheap so I would like to use the stock stuff if possible.

Not worried so much about durability but power, I know the 3.0L turbo'ed makes good power, look at Brent's, :thumb: I would only want about 10 psi, remember, its for the wife, :nod:

[Vigo]

I would absolutely turbo the 3.8 thats there. If you want to run it non-intercooled, itd be super easy. Just build a crossover pipe with a turbo flange and run piping straight from the compressor to the throttle body. Super easy. The tb isnt in as inconvenient a spot as it is with stock 3.0s so its easier to put a turbo there without changing anything. You may be able to use a 3.3 intrepid exhaust manifold for the back if changing the flow through the rear manifold bothers you. I wouldnt blame you if it did, lol.

I think with a proper size turbo, un intercooled low boost would be simple and reliable.

I wouldnt worry too much about the tranny shifting either. Later cars have torque management that retards timing or drops fuel while shifting, you could rig up your own similar system by hooking up an NC relay coil side to a PWM tranny solenoid and the other side to coil power so it stutters the spark (Still in correct time but skipping cylinders) while the solenoid is pulsing. If you really care that much.

Get pics ASAP!

SIMON, YOU HAVE TO BE THE FIRST PERSON TO SHOW US WHAT A BRAKE-BOOSTED AWD AUTOMATIC TURBO DODGE LAUNCH IS!!! DO IT!!

[Aries_Turbo]

if you run the 3.0L youll have to swap to the 3.0L version of the trans and swap the AWD diff guts into it but that wont be a problem.

rob was planning on doing some shiftbox stuff but i think it comes after some other projects :)

Brian

[bakes]

Simon here's a teaser
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo334/bakes_016/Picture.jpg

Now think a 2.4l cloud or PT torque converter , lower number side gear set, low profile soft street tires, a front exhaust manifold put on the rear head then a y to a s60 turbo set to 12psi and a npr fmic

brake ,boost, hold on!


i still need to look under the hood , the guy said it hard to start need a battery but it runs and drives

plus i have that blue fwd one for sale cheep too (1% of 1% simon)

[turbovanman²]

I would absolutely turbo the 3.8 thats there. If you want to run it non-intercooled, itd be super easy. Just build a crossover pipe with a turbo flange and run piping straight from the compressor to the throttle body. Super easy. The tb isnt in as inconvenient a spot as it is with stock 3.0s so its easier to put a turbo there without changing anything. You may be able to use a 3.3 intrepid exhaust manifold for the back if changing the flow through the rear manifold bothers you. I wouldnt blame you if it did, lol.

I think with a proper size turbo, un intercooled low boost would be simple and reliable.

I wouldnt worry too much about the tranny shifting either. Later cars have torque management that retards timing or drops fuel while shifting, you could rig up your own similar system by hooking up an NC relay coil side to a PWM tranny solenoid and the other side to coil power so it stutters the spark (Still in correct time but skipping cylinders) while the solenoid is pulsing. If you really care that much.

Get pics ASAP!

SIMON, YOU HAVE TO BE THE FIRST PERSON TO SHOW US WHAT A BRAKE-BOOSTED AWD AUTOMATIC TURBO DODGE LAUNCH IS!!! DO IT!!

Hahhaha, oh boy, what have I started, :eyebrows:

Thanks James, it looks like a Grand, which is what I wanted. Guess I won't bother with a V8 Astro van, :o

[ohiorob]

go for it. it would not be that hard but there's other things to consider.
the weak link in the awd is the drive shaft ends. one good hi torque launch and they would be history. to have something custom made would be costly.

I have a 98 and a 03 and the awd systems are different. they also made some changes to the 3.8. the heads are different and the tb are on opposite ends.

I think the 3.8 is awesome. but we need more info.

[SebringLX]

what do the PT turbo guys do when they crank the boost with the auto.

They do what I do, and send it off to AJ Berge to get beefed up. He was doing DIY kits too for a while, not sure if he still is doing either.

My 41TE shifts so hard, especially when I have it in autostick mode... slamming into gears at WOT FTW!

The main thing is to make sure you have the right fluid (Mopar ATF+4), a trans cooler is a huge help, and to stay out of boost in 4th (OD) gear. If you do that, even without doing anything else, they will live longer.

Breaking point on a stock 41TE on the PT's seems to be when you push over ~260whp through it, OR if you boost a lot in 4th.

[Vigo]

4th gear clutch pack is really weak in a 604, but as far as i know you'll just burn up the clutch pack and not actually break anything. But yes i agree no boosting in 4th. I had 4th fail on my intrepid after an extended 130mph run in 4th at 120k miles.. oops. The stupid thing about it is that after the clutch plates wear down some, theres actually a physical interference like the piston is 'bottoming out' or hitting the stops and cant compress the clutch pack any further so everything can be holding fine, and once normal wear makes you hit that point it goes up in smoke. I think there was thicker clutch plates made for 1 or 2 of the early years that can help address that problem.

Also, its easy not to boost in 4th when 3rd with stock gearing/tires can take you to 115+ @5500rpm. :)

Also, i have an autostick tcm ive been hanging onto but i might sell it to someone with a cool enough project.. get one of those rare 98-00 or so sport van column shifters that has the autostick shifter ON the shift knob.. sleeper.. :thumb:

VAN LOOKS AWESOME, DO IT!

[Aries_Turbo]

the weak link in the awd is the drive shaft ends. one good hi torque launch and they would be history. to have something custom made would be costly.

can i get a little more elaborate explanation on this?

are they the CV joint looking things underneath? or that crap "rag-joint" right before the input of the rear drive unit on the later vans?

thanks

Brian

[ohiorob]

can i get a little more elaborate explanation on this?

are they the CV joint looking things underneath? or that crap "rag-joint" right before the input of the rear drive unit on the later vans?

thanks

Brian

take your pick. I would say the rubber "rag-joint" would go first but that tiny CV looking thing at the transfer case looks to be very weak too. I had the transfer case apart and it is a very strong looking unit. I have no idea what the rear end would hold up to.
I thought my transfer case was bad but it was the carriar bearing :o and did you know that you can not buy a carrier bearing. you have to buy the whole drive shaft unit. $800 and there is only one left in the united states. screw that, I took the bearing out "not easy" and NAPA matched it up for me $35:)

[t3rse]

there is another guy making a megasquirt controller...Steve has run the 41te into the 9s...but in a light --- neon....

[turbovanman²]

there is another guy making a megasquirt controller...Steve has run the 41te into the 9s...but in a light --- neon....

Interesting, anyone we know?

[Aries_Turbo]

its the stuff im talking about in post #4 of this very thread.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

its the stuff im talking about in post #4 of this very thread.

Brian

Sorry, missed that link, doh!!!!!!!!! Having sleep deprevation right now, :(

Neat idea but that means I have to run megasquirt on the van, not really my idea of fun, lol.

[Aries_Turbo]

no you dont. you only need to run the megasquirt controller with the shift programming in it on the trans.

if you dont run megasquirt, what are you going to use for engine management? cobblejobs and rising rate regulators and absolutely ZERO timing control????? there arent any cals for 3.8L's and you cant use a 3.0L cal cause the 3.8L doesnt have a distributor.

since it isnt obd-II, the best bet is a megasquirt using ford EDIS ignition. and that is pretty easy to implement. you need to mount a trigger wheel on the crank and all the rest is simple wiring.

if you run a MS-II, the tranny controller MS-II and the engine MS-II can talk to each other, implement a over-rev protection scheme in the trans controller and other cool stuff.

two (2) MS-II's is going to be cheaper than the $$$ trans controller that steve runs on his neon. you do have to build it yourself though unless you want to pay $$$$

Brian

[turbovanman²]

no you dont. you only need to run the megasquirt controller with the shift programming in it on the trans.

if you dont run megasquirt, what are you going to use for engine management? cobblejobs and rising rate regulators and absolutely ZERO timing control????? there arent any cals for 3.8L's and you cant use a 3.0L cal cause the 3.8L doesnt have a distributor.

since it isnt obd-II, the best bet is a megasquirt using ford EDIS ignition. and that is pretty easy to implement. you need to mount a trigger wheel on the crank and all the rest is simple wiring.

if you run a MS-II, the tranny controller MS-II and the engine MS-II can talk to each other, implement a over-rev protection scheme in the trans controller and other cool stuff.

two (2) MS-II's is going to be cheaper than the $$$ trans controller that steve runs on his neon. you do have to build it yourself though unless you want to pay $$$$

Brian

I was going to cobble it, hehhhe.

Ok, I guess if I decide to stay 3.8, I'll have to MS it.

[bakes]

Heres a long shot but why can't we graft a t3 or srt maps on to the3.3 /3.8 sbec Cal? just a thought.

[Ondonti]

So one of the myths I remember is that the 3.8 is basically a bored out and weaker 3.3?

[Aries_Turbo]

I was going to cobble it, hehhhe.

Ok, I guess if I decide to stay 3.8, I'll have to MS it.

youll never learn will you............ do it right and do it once or dont do it at all. :mad:

:D

if you go 3.0L youll have to run a 89 smec. thats what robs v6 code is for... problem is that he doesnt have the custom turbo stuff done.

you pretty much need to MS it anyway to do it right and have a chance of keeping the factory pistons alive.


Heres a long shot but why can't we graft a t3 or srt maps on to the3.3 /3.8 sbec Cal? just a thought.

codebases are too different. alot is hardcoded to 1-bar.

[turbovanman²]

So one of the myths I remember is that the 3.8 is basically a bored out and weaker 3.3?

I don't know, but I would like to find out. Wonder if the heads are the same, if they are, they don't flow worth a damn. :(


youll never learn will you............ do it right and do it once or dont do it at all. :mad:

:D

if you go 3.0L youll have to run a 89 smec. thats what robs v6 code is for... problem is that he doesnt have the custom turbo stuff done.

you pretty much need to MS it anyway to do it right and have a chance of keeping the factory pistons alive.



codebases are too different. alot is hardcoded to 1-bar.

Your right, I never learn, hehhee. I have to keep you on your toes, :eyebrows: :thumb:

[bakes]

youll never learn will you............ do it right and do it once or dont do it at all. :mad:

:D

if you go 3.0L youll have to run a 89 smec. thats what robs v6 code is for... problem is that he doesnt have the custom turbo stuff done.

you pretty much need to MS it anyway to do it right and have a chance of keeping the factory pistons alive.



codebases are too different. alot is hardcoded to 1-bar.

i thought that only applied to 3.ol motor for the map and the dizzy

[Aries_Turbo]

im sure the 3.3 and the 3.8l are similar.

when the motor is only intended to be non turbo, they dont waste space and time putting all kinds of turbo specific stuff in the ecu.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

The 3.3 turbo minivan website and info is gone, :(

I found a post on google and a guy says that the 3.3 turbo was a fake, he also claim's his modded 3.3 n/a van ran 14.35@108 mph??????? :confused:


http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f19/203112-anybody-ever-turbod-3-3-v6.html

[bakes]

Well Simon i guess its up to you and me to prove it can be done i got a turbo for you to drop on it it will work with some tweaks
I will see you towmorrow jay droping the both FMIC off ,will pow wow on it when i get there.

[raccoon]

Nice new van simon, gl.

[Vigo]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/256392/2

There's been pictures of a turbo 3.3 dynasty up on cardomain for like.. 8 years now?

If i remember correctly the pictures of the 2g turbo 3.3 van didnt look fake to me. All seemed pretty reasonable, but im sure the peeps on the other forum would call BS if he didnt find and come into their thread and defend himself, thats TD for ya.

Do it right or dont do it at all?
Some of the respected 'old-timers' on this forum who messed with turbo dodges when they were newish did stuff we would laugh at today, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt have done it at all. Stepping stones are better than big plans and no results. Look at Brent's car. Hes had megasquirt sitting around for like 2 years now, but what did he have when he ran 11s on a stock motor? a fpr.

I say build your setup and run very low boost until you FEEL like making it complicated/expensive. Having a running awd turbo van, even on 4psi non intercooled, will REALLY help motivate you to take the next step, rather than putting together a $2k wish list and never even taking the van apart to change anything.

[WickedShelby88]

You could always look and see what they did to the 3.3's in the can am cars to get them to 250 hp and go from there;) Will the 3.8 bolt up in place of a 3.3? This has me thinking with my van.

[Vigo]

the 3.3 and 3.8 are literally just a shortblock swap. just like dropping a 350 in a 305 car.

The can am motors had higher compression, different cam, headers, custom plenum and large tb, possible headwork, likely different valvesprings, and revved to like 6800. Even a strong n/a 3.8 wouldnt be impressive in an AWD grand caravan. The only good way to take advantage of the AWD would be a turbo or supercharger and the turbo in this case is much easier :)

[turbovanman²]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/256392/2

There's been pictures of a turbo 3.3 dynasty up on cardomain for like.. 8 years now?

If i remember correctly the pictures of the 2g turbo 3.3 van didnt look fake to me. All seemed pretty reasonable, but im sure the peeps on the other forum would call BS if he didnt find and come into their thread and defend himself, thats TD for ya.

Do it right or dont do it at all?
Some of the respected 'old-timers' on this forum who messed with turbo dodges when they were newish did stuff we would laugh at today, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt have done it at all. Stepping stones are better than big plans and no results. Look at Brent's car. Hes had megasquirt sitting around for like 2 years now, but what did he have when he ran 11s on a stock motor? a fpr.

I say build your setup and run very low boost until you FEEL like making it complicated/expensive. Having a running awd turbo van, even on 4psi non intercooled, will REALLY help motivate you to take the next step, rather than putting together a $2k wish list and never even taking the van apart to change anything.

Yeah, not sure which direction I will take, I might try and get some engine pieces for a wrecker to measure and take notes, get a head flowed, get the cam checked and redone etc. Not sure when I'll get it done, maybe next winter????????

One thing is for sure, I will either do it properly or just freshen up the engine and run 5 psi and call it a day, :D

[turbovanman²]

I emailed the 3.3 guy and asked him for times, hp etc.

I invited him to this site so we'll see what happens, :thumb:

[WickedShelby88]

Hmm. Sounds like a 3.8 swap wouldn't be too hard although I guess the worst part for my van is it is a 92 and I don't think I could just swap in a 95 3.8 SBEC to make it work. Trans controller is practically a stand alone correct?

[contraption22]

I think a STS-style remote mounted turbo would be worth a try in this case. It would minimize fabrication. I would bet that even with 5 or 6psi, it would give a major improvement.

http://www.ststurbo.com/universal_system

[SebringLX]

when the motor is only intended to be non turbo, they dont waste space and time putting all kinds of turbo specific stuff in the ecu.

I don't know about the older ECUs... but on the newer stuff, it's all in there regardless, just not turned on. It's like 1 controller to rule them all! Just a matter of changing the right 0 to a 1 to activate the turbo portion, but all that area does is run solenoids for controller a turbo... who cares about doing that? Most people run an MBC or an EBC anyway. Most important part is scaling for 3 BAR MAP sensor, and scaling the injectors.

[Aries_Turbo]

Do it right or dont do it at all?
Some of the respected 'old-timers' on this forum who messed with turbo dodges when they were newish did stuff we would laugh at today, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt have done it at all. Stepping stones are better than big plans and no results. Look at Brent's car. Hes had megasquirt sitting around for like 2 years now, but what did he have when he ran 11s on a stock motor? a fpr.

this is for simons wife. she isnt going to be too happy when he has to fix the cobbles all the time or replace a HG when it pops cause of stock N/A timing. ;)

i suppose 5psi, colder plugs, good gas and a little alky and stock timing would be ok. :) i mean my buddy runs 3-4psi on his eclipse (420a) with stock timing and a megasquirt-2 doing fuel only till i get my knock box done. then hes going full control and ~10psi. that car has knock detection stock for the N/A and pulls timing when it knocks.

i guess he could put a DIS4 msd box on it for the boost retard but thats more than a MS-II.

STS turbo.... id do something like that but different. mount the turbo under the car, to the rear of the k frame. all that has to come down there is a custom stainless downpipe to the turbo and a boost pipe back up and the oil stuff. youll need a small tank and a pump to return the oil back to the motor but that shouldnt be too hard. that would be better than the STS style way in the back but will give some space benefits.

Trans controller.... on the early cars, the trans controller was more or less a stand alone but on the later ones it read data from the ecu via a data bus.

ECU stuff... older code isnt like the newer. its less universal.

i wanna see this done, i just dont want it to be broken all the time. :)

Brian

[Vigo]

ive spent a lot of time looking at the bottom of caravans (lol) and i came up with the same idea. Right behind the k-frame. Theres tons of room down there IF you're not AWD. I dont know how much room there really is down there on AWD vans. Simon needs to get the van home and post some pics so we can kick this racing bench into high gear.

[turbovanman²]

ive spent a lot of time looking at the bottom of caravans (lol) and i came up with the same idea. Right behind the k-frame. Theres tons of room down there IF you're not AWD. I dont know how much room there really is down there on AWD vans. Simon needs to get the van home and post some pics so we can kick this racing bench into high gear.

There is NO room back there on an AWD, worked on a few to know this.

Yeah, right now, this is all bench and forum racing, probably won't even touch it until winter or next year. Alot of planning and mocking up to get done first, collect parts etc so the swap is smooth and quick.

[Vigo]

but you can post pics before winter right???! heh selfish of me, but i havent seen a complete picture of the bottom of a 2g awd (most people dont have lifts, cough cough) so i can brainstorm for my 90 van. I figure if the rear diff/axles is all bolt-in stuff, maybe someday i could have the first gas+electric AWD hybrid 1990 dodge caravan:eyebrows:

[Ondonti]

Simon,

Right now I am thinking for my built motor if I get enough money to fix it, I will be going with a 3.5L 6g74 block with big overbore (3.6+L).
Since my block is junk, I want to get a new block and rering, but why keep the low compression pistons....and why keep stock rods. And 3.5L rods cost the same as 6g72 rods.
Or a 3.8L 6g75 block. Work these 12 valve heads to the max. Will it still count as a 3.0? :P I know I could upgrade to better heads but, that would sorta ruin some of the fun.

The one problem would be my lower intake manifold would not fit the 6g74/6g75 blocks because they have a taller deck height. I think that could be solved with some small spacers or like 5 gaskets lol...?
Still 3.6-3.8L in this light car with ability to rev dang high :love: AWD swap. 700awhp 2400# car. :love::love::love:

So you can still have your 3.8L cake and eat many rpms too.
Heck, you could do the 3.8L mivec. It sits on the passenger side OEM and the heads flow 360cfms with some port work on stock valves. I say build a big valve 400+ cfm set of heads for your wifes awd van.
It will easily do 300 at the WHEELS without a turbo on stock heads. Variable intake cam duration/lift too so your wife can retain low rpm drivability even with some fairly nasty cams. Go all out and make 400hp before you throw on the turbo. BTW, its a van! There is SO much room under the hood. At least when its 6g7x powered. Don't waste time with ghetto turbo setups.
But I dont think you want to build your wife the faster van that can kill you on both the track and street without switching tires. :bump2:
You would certainly well test the awd system though.

I think you need to give up the idea cause your wifes van is goign to be faster.

BTW, record for a604 3.0 van = 15.5 seconds n/a boltons. It was a "long" van too.

[Vigo]

BTW, record for a604 3.0 van = 15.5 seconds n/a boltons. It was a "long" van too.
REALLY... more info plz? Im about to get a 3.0 grand caravan from someone who owes me money... :D

I too have thought about a 3.5 or 3.8 swap into a van since they're the only thing that'll EASILY fit a big mivec head 3.8, but for me its a pipe dream due to money concerns. I did find a mivec 2.4 in a yard for $200 but thats... not as useful to me ;)

[turbovanman²]

but you can post pics before winter right???! heh selfish of me, but i havent seen a complete picture of the bottom of a 2g awd (most people dont have lifts, cough cough) so i can brainstorm for my 90 van. I figure if the rear diff/axles is all bolt-in stuff, maybe someday i could have the first gas+electric AWD hybrid 1990 dodge caravan:eyebrows:

Yes, I will get some pics after I pick it up, which won't be for awhile.

The AWD will bolt into a 1st Gen, I was thinking about doing it on my van but honestly, I am done modding it for now plus I'll have to fabricate a bunch of stuff and again, I just don't have the energy, :o


Simon,

Right now I am thinking for my built motor if I get enough money to fix it, I will be going with a 3.5L 6g74 block with big overbore (3.6+L).
Since my block is junk, I want to get a new block and rering, but why keep the low compression pistons....and why keep stock rods. And 3.5L rods cost the same as 6g72 rods.
Or a 3.8L 6g75 block. Work these 12 valve heads to the max. Will it still count as a 3.0? :P I know I could upgrade to better heads but, that would sorta ruin some of the fun.

The one problem would be my lower intake manifold would not fit the 6g74/6g75 blocks because they have a taller deck height. I think that could be solved with some small spacers or like 5 gaskets lol...?
Still 3.6-3.8L in this light car with ability to rev dang high :love: AWD swap. 700awhp 2400# car. :love::love::love:

So you can still have your 3.8L cake and eat many rpms too.
Heck, you could do the 3.8L mivec. It sits on the passenger side OEM and the heads flow 360cfms with some port work on stock valves. I say build a big valve 400+ cfm set of heads for your wifes awd van.
It will easily do 300 at the WHEELS without a turbo on stock heads. Variable intake cam duration/lift too so your wife can retain low rpm drivability even with some fairly nasty cams. Go all out and make 400hp before you throw on the turbo. BTW, its a van! There is SO much room under the hood. At least when its 6g7x powered. Don't waste time with ghetto turbo setups.
But I dont think you want to build your wife the faster van that can kill you on both the track and street without switching tires. :bump2:
You would certainly well test the awd system though.

I think you need to give up the idea cause your wifes van is goign to be faster.

BTW, record for a604 3.0 van = 15.5 seconds n/a boltons. It was a "long" van too.

Pardon my french, but what is a 6g74? is a 6g75 the 3.8 in my van and if not, what car/van. Will the heads bolt to my 3.8?

If the heads are off something else, I'll keep my eyes open at the local Pickapart, :thumb:

The wives van could be faster but I want it fun and reliable, I don't need it breaking like mine, she'd kill me, :eyebrows:

[Big_P]

If I'm not mistaken, the 3.8L MIVEC has overhead cams?

[Vigo]

brent is referring to the newer versions of mitsu's venerable 6gXX v6. nothing hes talking about will bolt to a dodge 3.8. It will bolt to a 3.0 van tranny, and have to fab mounts but probly nothing serious.. except in that case 100% necessary to do standalone and a much higher up front cost.

[bakes]

LH 3.5 will bolt right to the bell housing and the coil. cam and crank senors should be plug and play
some of those motors had forged crank and rods
the hardest thing i think would be to fab up a pass side mount

[Reaper1]

That and the 3.5 is WIDE!!! Same for the Mitsu 3.8. I dunno that it'd be as easy a fit as some might want to believe...

[turbovanman²]

That and the 3.5 is WIDE!!! Same for the Mitsu 3.8. I dunno that it'd be as easy a fit as some might want to believe...

I agree, it fills up the LH engine bay and its TIGHT, :o

A 3.3/3.5 in there has tons of room, you could sit in there, kinda like old school Chevy PU's, :thumb:

[bakes]

Think of it as putting a Big block into an s10 lol

[Vigo]

LH 3.5 will bolt right to the bell housing and the coil. cam and crank senors should be plug and play
some of those motors had forged crank and rods
the hardest thing i think would be to fab up a pass side mount

Hmm, i wonder who has a 3.5 motor out of their old intrepid sitting around waiting for a good car to put it in :)

I also wonder who has determined that stock 3.3 electronics will run a 3.5 (albeit badly) through his research into intrepids..

Thanks for reminding me what the free grand caravan im getting would be good for if its 3.3. :)

[bakes]

You would have to run the 3.5 smec
Take the3.5 upper intake and toss it make a plenum something like what Bent made for his 3.ol beast with a jeep 4.ol TB

The later LX 3.5 had a much better intake with bosh style injectors

I think the 3.5 is only 1-2 wider the a 3.ol sohc

Theres a lot of room to port the heads and intake on the 3.5 build a couple of these motors and you see what im talking about.

[Vigo]

Take the3.5 upper intake and toss it make a plenum something like what Bent made for his 3.ol beast with a jeep 4.ol TB
The 1st gen 3.5 intake is far superior to any of dodge's other stock v6 plenums on the old cars.
Not only that, but 2 52mm tbs (or even stock 46 or 48 or whatever i had before 52s) is a MUCH larger combined area than one 60mm.

The stock manifold tuning valve is very functional at high rpms. IF i did anything with a first gen 3.5 intake i would cut the plenums off each side and run larger ones.

There is no such thing as a 3.5 smec. The first year the 3.5 was offered was 93 and k-cars by then were SBEC2. The lh cars i believe used the same 60way connector from 93-95 but the computer case and thus likely the board was completely different. Getting an lh harness into a transverse motor car would be more trouble than its worth, so id start with a 3.3 car harness. They have all the same sensors (except that the 3.5 has two knock sensors to the early 3.3s 0) and are laid out roughly the same. With some modifications to the harness a 3.5 motor could be plugged into a 3.3 car, and the 3.3 cal will run the 3.5, but the timing will be way off and the rev limit will be 1000 rpm too low, which would castrate the 3.5. However, if anyone figured out the tables in the sbec, it could be made to work well.

Its something noone has even attempted til now that i know of, but i do WANT to swap my 3.5 into a transverse fwd k-based car. I want a lot of things to happen but here i am not doing them so.... :p

[bakes]

I think i should have said burn a 3.5 cal onto a 3.3 smec that's what i had in mind.

the 1st gen is a better intake for a n/a but for turbo the dual TB's has to have more complex pluming and the injector are limited Maybe 2.5 tb 72#injector might fit but have never compared them to the Siemens injectors.

the later 3.5 lx intake uses regular injectors and fuel rail

[Vigo]

yes the early injectors are pretty much proprietary. the tbi injectors are roughly similar in shape and size but far too different to be swappable (ive got a few of both sitting around). The 2nd gen lower intake and fuel rail can be used with the 1g upper and Tb's if one wanted to. The 2g intake biases the powerband higher by a few hundred rpm and doesnt make low end torque as well, but turbos are where torque comes from anyway and i agree the 2g upper would probably be the best for turbo and turbo plumbing.

[bakes]

was just doing some surfing on alldata at first looks at spec it looks like the srt or t3 piston look like they will fit the 3.5 i need to find more info to make sure but bore wise they will.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html

[bakes]

I forgot that the 3.5 was an cross bolted block hmmm .

[Vigo]

If those pistons fit in a 3.5, they will also fit in the 3.8. They share bore size. However, the valve reliefs would be totally incorrect.

[bakes]

If those pistons fit in a 3.5, they will also fit in the 3.8. They share bore size. However, the valve reliefs would be totally incorrect.

yes but what about a the 8v 2.2 and 2.5 turbo pistons for the 3.8 which ever piston pin height is better.

[Vigo]

IF those could be made to fit on stock rods (pin type/size?) it would be a very cheap way to get very decent pistons into the 3.8 (but not 3.3). Keeping in mind that the stock pistons have held 300 hp on 4 cylinders (how many times by now???).. 75hp X 6 cylinders = 450 hp worth of cheap pistons? oooh my ricer math is exciting!

[Aries_Turbo]

wait a min... isnt the 3.3 93mm and the 3.8 and 3.5 96mm?

the turbo stuff is 3.44" which is 87mm

unless im missing something......

Brian

[bakes]

your right
this is why i hate using alldata at work dam it

[Vigo]

I knew it was too good to be true. The 3.8 actuall has some pretty large pistons and relatively small stroke compared to a lot of motors with similar displacement, and the 4 cylinders are the opposite.

[WickedShelby88]

The 300M version of the 3.5 already made a respectable amount of power. Would that not bolt into the same trans as the 3.3/3.8 variety?

[Vigo]

Yes it will bolt up there. I am fairly certain it will bolt to a 3.3/3.8 front mount as well. The passenger mount would need to be made. Might take a look at the transverse 3.5/4.0 cars (pacifica and new vans) for ideas on that one.

Anyway, the 3.8 makes just as good of power til 5k at least. The 3.5 is a great motor, but until you get to high rpm it doesnt have any strong advantage over the simpler, smaller, ALREADY THERE 3.8 :p

It DOES make more power EVERYWHERE than a 3.3 by far. that extra .5l of the 3.8 really makes a difference.

IMO all versions of the 3.5 make good power. All the 2g lh motors like the 300m were pretty much the same aside from tuning. The 1g motors have some serious differences. 93-95 iirc had a smaller chamber head with inferior ports to the 96-97 head (2g heads are better still). so 96-97 had a half point less compression but made the same power, or better but not enough to justify rerating an engine that would only go another two years.

a 1g motor in an intrepid will show an impressive difference if you ditch the stock intake pipe and the stock downpipes. IMO if you do that theres not terribly much difference in the power between 1g and 2g lh 3.5s except that the 2g revs a few hundred rpm higher and picks up a bigger number if by that alone. In fact, when my intrepid had cowl induction intake and stock downpipes//precats back to true duals, i raced a stock 300m and ran dead even. The high rpm powerband is the best trait of thost motors imo.. its rare to find an old family car v6 motor that pulls strong to redline. The 00-02 vq30 was another one. I think its become more common since then, but you cant get a new vq or toyota or honda v6 for $200 in a junkyard :thumb:

[bakes]

what about 1mm (.40")over piston then a slight hone? mabey

[Aries_Turbo]

but you can post pics before winter right???! heh selfish of me, but i havent seen a complete picture of the bottom of a 2g awd (most people dont have lifts, cough cough) so i can brainstorm for my 90 van. I figure if the rear diff/axles is all bolt-in stuff, maybe someday i could have the first gas+electric AWD hybrid 1990 dodge caravan:eyebrows:

i dont have access to a lift, plus the rear driveline is out already, but i have a 2001 awd setup sitting on my garage floor. you want a pic of that?

Brian

[Vigo]

I heard about that via pete, but what im looking for is actually a pic of the room under the van with the AWD stuff in it and only an older one would really apply to me, but thanks for the offer.

[Aries_Turbo]

no prob.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, all this talk about other engines, lol. :eyebrows:

[Aries_Turbo]

kiss it simon ;)

[turbovanman²]

kiss it simon ;)

You'd like it too much, hehehe, :eyebrows:

[Vigo]

Wow, all this talk about other engines, lol.

You should see what we did to brent's thread about his junkyard 11 sec 3.0 :p

Same thing happened in my limo thread too.

Maybe im the lowest common denominator.... NAH!!

[Ondonti]

Alright lets see those 3.8's running 8 psi
err I mean 16psi

Err I mean 24psi like a bone stock 3.0. And lets see it with a huge turbo not a namby pamby one. :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Dusters-90-Junkyard-Motor_681676.htm

[Aries_Turbo]

nice dude. all that farting around has really paid off. :)

Brian

[Ondonti]

bring it 3.3/3.8 lovers ;)

[Big_P]

It will be brought...

Nah I don't plan on boost right now :P

[bakes]

bring it 3.3/3.8 lovers ;)



what no 3.5 :nod:

[Reaper1]

Different engine family. Different cars, but I'm sure he'll take those on too! LOL

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah if the bottom end of a 3.8L can take boost, it already makes 215/245. boost would make that an animal. i bet the block is strong but the rods and pistons could use some upgrades.

Brian

[Ondonti]

Different engine family. Different cars, but I'm sure he'll take those on too! LOL

consider themselves served.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/drloomis3/Cat-YouJustGotServed.jpg

http://wh0rd.org/voltron-got-served.png

[Reaper1]

^^ lol

[turbovanman²]

consider themselves served.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/drloomis3/Cat-YouJustGotServed.jpg

http://wh0rd.org/voltron-got-served.png

Don't worry Brent, it will be brung, if I do it, ;)

[Ondonti]

step 2 the streets man