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View Full Version : Thinking of getting into a devils own kit Need advise



Mr overkill
04-24-2009, 12:43 PM
ok so you see my sig and all and i have been thinking of getting a kit Since the motor is out for the weekend getting something fixed that i screwed up.


When is it needed after what boost level and 91 gas with my setup???

how is the best way to setup ? how do you know if its 2 much or little?? I do run a wideband and egt so that should help

contraption22
04-24-2009, 01:16 PM
Start out small and keep adding it until the you start to loose trap speed, then back off a bit. Then start adding timing a little bit at a time.

jckrieger
05-22-2009, 09:21 PM
Personally, I'd buy a different kit. I just had my devilsown controller fail and a friend had his fail last year. No warning... just quit driving the pump.

turbovanmanČ
05-23-2009, 02:56 AM
Personally, I'd buy a different kit. I just had my devilsown controller fail and a friend had his fail last year. No warning... just quit driving the pump.

So out of the 1000's sold, 2 failed???????? :confused: If thats your reasoning, stop buying any product as shockers, some fail without warning. :banghead:

I've had mine for 3 years, it works awesome. I talked to him in person at SDAC 16 so he recommended the nozzle size. I ran 50/50 windshield washer fluid, 89 octane gas and 20 psi with my TIII setup. The progressive controller rocks, :thumb:

Right now, running pure meth for extra fuel but going back to 50/50, I read it works better than pure meth due to the water actually is better.

I also think I need a larger nozzle so I am going to order some.

jckrieger
05-23-2009, 05:26 PM
So out of the 1000's sold, 2 failed???????? :confused: If thats your reasoning, stop buying any product as shockers, some fail without warning. :banghead:

My point here is that of the 2 people I know who had this kit, both of them failed. If I knew 1000 people with the progressive controller, then, well, maybe I'd have a different feeling. I personally think it's sad when a controller with a diode, a transistor, and a couple IC's isn't more reliable. Oh well, I guess I get to reverse engineer mine and make a better unit. Maybe I'll build and sell replacement boards for the people with failed controllers. Either that, or we can start using the Turbonator cals and do all the work in software with a simple solid state relay.

turbovanmanČ
05-23-2009, 05:52 PM
Have you got ahold of DD and see if there is any warranty or discount on a new part??????? You of all should realize that your at the mercy of source parts and have no control over their quality.

And no, I am not sticking up for them because I own one, I would do it with any product line.

badandy
05-27-2009, 11:46 AM
It's a well known fact that the drivers and circuitry in the Devils own kit is rather small for the current demands of the suerflow pumps...and if you read around other message boards the controller failure is more prominent than one might think...nbw, is it any more than other comapnies controllers?...you be the judge. All I know is that when it came time for me to make my choice I looked at all the competitors systems and noticed how much larger their controllers were...and concluded that there must be a reason...just like power inverters and car stero amplifiers...generally the bigger it is the more mosfets ='s more power holding capacity/generation.

Aries_Turbo
05-27-2009, 01:44 PM
id rather just use the cal and some relays to stage a few injectors. the progressive nature of the controller is nice but it only ramps up as the boost ramps up. you can get close enough to the ramp function with 3 small injectors. thats what i did with my setup. no stumbling. ran 25psi with pump gas and no knock in 4th and 5th gear. :)

Brian

t3rse
05-27-2009, 02:25 PM
It's a well known fact that the drivers and circuitry in the Devils own kit is rather small for the current demands of the suerflow pumps...and if you read around other message boards the controller failure is more prominent than one might think...nbw, is it any more than other comapnies controllers?...you be the judge. All I know is that when it came time for me to make my choice I looked at all the competitors systems and noticed how much larger their controllers were...and concluded that there must be a reason...just like power inverters and car stero amplifiers...generally the bigger it is the more mosfets ='s more power holding capacity/generation.

+1...many people have had failures...just because Simon hasn't doesn't mean it isn't a common problem...check neon and turbo ford forums to see what we're talking about

contraption22
05-28-2009, 01:22 PM
What is the name of that W/I kit mfr that has had zero failures... can't think of the name right now.... anybody?

turbovanmanČ
05-28-2009, 01:35 PM
+1...many people have had failures...just because Simon hasn't doesn't mean it isn't a common problem...check neon and turbo ford forums to see what we're talking about

I am not saying this because I have had no failures. Thats like saying don't get an SRT 4 as some have issues, :confused::confused::confused:

Don't buy a Turbo Dodge as they blew up and cost money??? :banghead:



What is the name of that W/I kit mfr that has had zero failures... can't think of the name right now.... anybody?

Snow Performance maybe?

contraption22
05-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Snow Performance maybe?

I was being sarcastic, but if they really have had no failures, that's pretty remarkable.

t3rse
05-28-2009, 01:44 PM
I am not saying this because I have had no failures. Thats like saying don't get an SRT 4 as some have issues, :confused::confused::confused:

Don't buy a Turbo Dodge as they blew up and cost money??? :banghead:




Snow Performance maybe?

1 piece of anecdotal evidence that these things aren't turds isn't enough to overcome the thousands of failures. Do 90% of Srts have issues? TDs blow up because they are old and not maintained and people like yourself crank up the boost without doing proper tuning.

turbovanmanČ
05-28-2009, 01:52 PM
I was being sarcastic, but if they really have had no failures, that's pretty remarkable.

Sorry, hard to tell sarcasm over the net, :o



1 piece of anecdotal evidence that these things aren't turds isn't enough to overcome the thousands of failures. Do 90% of Srts have issues? TDs blow up because they are old and not maintained and people like yourself crank up the boost without doing proper tuning.

So your saying 1000's of DO kits have failed?????? That would mean almost every DO kit sold is junk or DOA. I find that extremely hard to believe.

Your still not really getting the point, my response was more tonque in cheek as to sh*t happens. Now if every DO kit failed then yeah, I would say stay away. I remember reading about another kit who's pump's kept failing but they are still in business. Sh*t goes wrong, they either fix it or they go out of business.

contraption22
05-28-2009, 02:47 PM
1 piece of anecdotal evidence that these things aren't turds isn't enough to overcome the thousands of failures. Do 90% of Srts have issues? TDs blow up because they are old and not maintained and people like yourself crank up the boost without doing proper tuning.

On the same token, a few people saying they've had problems with their DO kit does not make all of them crappy.

t3rse
05-28-2009, 02:54 PM
indeed...but it common knowledge that snow has better controllers

badandy
05-28-2009, 04:11 PM
So out of the 1000's sold, 2 failed???????? :confused: If thats your reasoning, stop buying any product as shockers, some fail without warning. :banghead:

I've had mine for 3 years, it works awesome. I talked to him in person at SDAC 16 so he recommended the nozzle size. I ran 50/50 windshield washer fluid, 89 octane gas and 20 psi with my TIII setup. The progressive controller rocks, :thumb:

Right now, running pure meth for extra fuel but going back to 50/50, I read it works better than pure meth due to the water actually is better.

I also think I need a larger nozzle so I am going to order some.

Why in the world (not neccessarily quoted post per say) do people get so defensive? Okay, let me try and reel this back in here...

The original poster said "personally, I would stay away from Devils Own kits" (or something to that nature)...which I took to mean "My opinion through personal experience is to not get a devils Own kit because I have seen two controllers fail. Nothing wrong with that statement...it's backed up with proper reasoning and proof.

Okay...now "personally" Simon...it appeared to me you took some quick offense to that posters experience...so you recanted with your own...and in doing so squashed their reasoning...RIGHT? Kinda like how antimate you are about things like rebuilt master cylinders or gapless rings or (fill in the others you are antimate about). Now...I have my own experiences with the things you say are great and the things you say blow chunks...but I don't reply to you like you did to the original poster...follow me?

My point which T3RSE backed up was that Devils Own's controllers are indeed tiny by comparison to the market. If you do a little research about how they are tiny and why the competitors controllers are not...and you compare that to the failure rates of the controllers themselves...you can then come to your own conclusion...makes sense to me:confused2:

If you have not had a failure...than that is all that needs to be said...not dispute someone elses's claims and discredit their statement in doing so.

Besides...it isn't like the topic was unfounded...there is proof of failure...see for yourself instead of disputing based off of your experiences alone.

My other point is the Devil's Own kits are priced rather inexpensively compared to the market...now are they every bit just as good?...I doubt it...but do they do the job just fine for most all consumers...apparently so.

To each their own....rant off.

contraption22
05-28-2009, 04:23 PM
Why in the world (not neccessarily quoted post per say) do people get so defensive? Okay, let me try and reel this back in here...

The original poster said "personally, I would stay away from Devils Own kits" (or something to that nature)...which I took to mean "My opinion through personal experience is to not get a devils Own kit because I have seen two controllers fail. Nothing wrong with that statement...it's backed up with proper reasoning and proof.

Okay...now "personally" Simon...it appeared to me you took some quick offense to that posters experience...so you recanted with your own...and in doing so squashed their reasoning...RIGHT? Kinda like how antimate you are about things like rebuilt master cylinders or gapless rings or (fill in the others you are antimate about). Now...I have my own experiences with the things you say are great and the things you say blow chunks...but I don't reply to you like you did to the original poster...follow me?

My point which T3RSE backed up was that Devils Own's controllers are indeed tiny by comparison to the market. If you do a little research about how they are tiny and why the competitors controllers are not...and you compare that to the failure rates of the controllers themselves...you can then come to your own conclusion...makes sense to me:confused2:

If you have not had a failure...than that is all that needs to be said...not dispute someone elses's claims and discredit their statement in doing so.

Besides...it isn't like the topic was unfounded...there is proof of failure...see for yourself instead of disputing based off of your experiences alone.

My other point is the Devil's Own kits are priced rather inexpensively compared to the market...now are they every bit just as good?...I doubt it...but do they do the job just fine for most all consumers...apparently so.

To each their own....rant off.

Just because.

turbovanmanČ
05-28-2009, 04:25 PM
Why in the world (not neccessarily quoted post per say) do people get so defensive? Okay, let me try and reel this back in here...

The original poster said "personally, I would stay away from Devils Own kits" (or something to that nature)...which I took to mean "My opinion through personal experience is to not get a devils Own kit because I have seen two controllers fail. Nothing wrong with that statement...it's backed up with proper reasoning and proof.

Okay...now "personally" Simon...it appeared to me you took some quick offense to that posters experience...so you recanted with your own...and in doing so squashed their reasoning...RIGHT? Kinda like how antimate you are about things like rebuilt master cylinders or gapless rings or (fill in the others you are antimate about). Now...I have my own experiences with the things you say are great and the things you say blow chunks...but I don't reply to you like you did to the original poster...follow me?

My point which T3RSE backed up was that Devils Own's controllers are indeed tiny by comparison to the market. If you do a little research about how they are tiny and why the competitors controllers are not...and you compare that to the failure rates of the controllers themselves...you can then come to your own conclusion...makes sense to me:confused2:

If you have not had a failure...than that is all that needs to be said...not dispute someone elses's claims and discredit their statement in doing so.

Besides...it isn't like the topic was unfounded...there is proof of failure...see for yourself instead of disputing based off of your experiences alone.

My other point is the Devil's Own kits are priced rather inexpensively compared to the market...now are they every bit just as good?...I doubt it...but do they do the job just fine for most all consumers...apparently so.

To each their own....rant off.

Why, because I hate seeing products/people bashed over a "few" failures, to which all products are guilty of.

Exactly, each there own.

Mike, funny, ;lol:

badandy
05-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Just because.
Man, I will never forget you saying that when running trying to catch up to Reeves's van that time LMAO! I swear man...I just busted out laughing seeing that picture!

jckrieger
05-29-2009, 10:13 PM
I'll jump back into this thread and say I've learned of another DO controller failure from another member. That's 3 for 3 for people I know with DO progressive controllers.

With that said, I wonder if I could simply hook a pressure switch in series with an injector driver from the ECM and have it drive a fast solid state relay. The pressure switch would provide power to the relay at a set boost level, then the ECM would drive the solid state relay and the relay would drive the pump... with a decent PWM control that is proportional to engine speed and boost level. Anyone have any ideas with this?

Aries_Turbo
05-29-2009, 10:40 PM
that will work but you wont be able to use a solenoid and a nozzle unless the solenoid can switch fast enough.

what you could use is a FFV injector or two and a meth nozzle after that as long as the injector flow rate is higher than the meth nozzle. that will work.

brian

jckrieger
05-29-2009, 10:43 PM
I discovered another "feature" of my devil's own controller... it grounds my map signal when it goes above about 1.6V. I gave the controller 1 more chance and it is actually the reason I have been chasing a cal issue for the past several weeks.

Now... to dig out one of my old solid state relays...

Aries_Turbo
05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
SSD's may not work depending on the frequency of the injector. for the sharp ones that ive used before, the max recommended frequency is ~65hz. youll need to hold your RPMS steady at redline for a second and measure with a frequency meter to see what kind of frequency is going on at the injector. now you could copy the injector driver and flyback circuit from a megasquirt to drive what you want, that would work without issue.

Brian

jckrieger
05-29-2009, 11:49 PM
I was looking around and my solid state relays are actually intended to switch 110V AC at 10A. I did however find a couple 150A IGBT's, PN CM150DY-24H. It looks like they need 15V DC to saturate, and our voltage while running is about 14.5V. I'm thinking I could probably just tie the gate to the pressure switch (+14.5V), the collector to the battery + terminal, and then connect the emitter to the shurflow pump. The injector driver would then supply voltage to the gate which would allow current to flow from the collector to the emitter. The only problem I see here is that these transistors are f'n huge and I won't quite be able to saturate the transistor. Newark electronics has a datasheet, so take a look if you think I'm crazy. Oh, and don't ask where these came from :)

badandy
06-04-2009, 06:43 PM
I'll jump back into this thread and say I've learned of another DO controller failure from another member. That's 3 for 3 for people I know with DO progressive controllers.

With that said, I wonder if I could simply hook a pressure switch in series with an injector driver from the ECM and have it drive a fast solid state relay. The pressure switch would provide power to the relay at a set boost level, then the ECM would drive the solid state relay and the relay would drive the pump... with a decent PWM control that is proportional to engine speed and boost level. Anyone have any ideas with this?

SICK E'M SIMON :p

Just kidding :o

glhs727
06-04-2009, 08:46 PM
if anyone has bought a D/O kit with the controller from US and has had a failure, please contact me. We have installed several at the shop and sold a bunch locally, and have not had a failure yet, and would like to know if any of our other customer had an issue.
Thanks,
Cindy

jckrieger
06-05-2009, 11:49 PM
Cindy, I purchased my kit from you a couple years ago. It's long out of warranty, so I didn't even think of contacting you about it. So far DO seems to be willing to help... as long as I don't give them proof that it's out of warranty.

jckrieger
07-08-2009, 12:22 AM
I'd like to update this thread, as I'm not sure what's up with Devil's Own's customer support. At first I contacted "Chance" from Devil's own and got a warranty work form. As requested, I printed off the invoice from the original order and sent the controller in. I was informed before I sent the hardware that I would receive an email once the hardware was received, then I should get replacement hardware in about a week.

Well now 3 weeks have passed since the old controller was delivered to their warranty department and I haven't heard anything. I emailed their customer support asking for an update 5 days ago and haven't had a reply back.

So now, on top of having my part fail, I don't have the old hardware for me to try to repair myself and customer service is ignoring me. That sure makes me feel good when I spent over $300 for this hardware. I could have bought the same pump, nozzles, fittings, and hose for under $100 and had a friend design and program a controller in about 30 minutes.

jckrieger
07-27-2009, 08:28 PM
So today, after about 2 months of waiting my Devil's Own controller came back "repaired". They said the voltage regulator failed, thus taking out the microcontroller with it. They then said that this can never happen, and it was clearly my fault. They accused me of not supplying a good power feed or overloading the 5V output. In reality, the 5V output is still insulated and is connected to nothing. The controller also has a dedicated fuse directly off my fuse panel. Any other problem should have been prevented with some simple design considerations. This product is definitely of an inferior design, but that's about all you can expect from a company with no strong background.

contraption22
07-27-2009, 09:01 PM
... and mine still works fine.

jckrieger
07-27-2009, 09:11 PM
... and mine still works fine.

I'm not saying they're all bad, but if I was buying a new unit, I'd buy a Snow Performance since they back their products with more than a 1 year warranty.

Aries_Turbo
07-27-2009, 10:22 PM
put a high pressure hobbes switch at the alky injectors. hook it to your boost control, if you run high boost and the switch shuts off, it kills the boost.

does alkycontrol still sell their controller. i know larry j liked his setup.

Brian