86 starion rare for 600....

[WickedShelby88]

I was in the process of picking up a shelby lancer for a good price, but it looks as if it won't materialize so I found this:http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=89106&st=0&gopid=879171&#entry879171
I have heard these can be a nightmare electrically though which is why I am hesitant, but the interior is in pretty nice condition and the body really doesn't look all that bad. I wouldn't plan on building it up much other than a mostly stock fun rwd driver. It would also make a good DD while I build up a 2.4/2.0/supra trans drive line on down the road. So if anyone who knows these cars has some sound advice please advise me away from it or if it is a good deal.

[tsiconquest88]

little bit of reading for ya here but a lot of info for ya too so read up. First off that car has been around for so long. guy has been tryin to sell it. I thought about buying it but i try to stay away from pre 88-89 cars unless they are flatbodies. But go for it man, its one of the rarest colors u can find too. The pre 88-89 years are common for broken axles and a weaker clutch setup as they are 225mm clutch disc/flywheel area as to where the 88-89 are 245mm and a stronger trans and axles. 4 bolt axles for the pre and 6 bolt for the 88-89. the 86 is different FI from all the years in it uses a MAS and MAP sensor, and 2 of the same injectors rather then a primary and secondary like the other years and they spray at the same time for 86. One of the issues is a dead battery after the car being off and sit overnight which is due to the etacs unit that is a TSB and has a superceded part or u can just use the 88-89 one etc. theres more but those are the basis to watch out for on the 86 and other pre 88-89 cars.

On the other side of things, the silent shafts (often referred to as balance shaft but really arent) is hit or miss, i have seen people (myself) make good power on stock bottom ends and beat the car to death and have no issues. others i have seen go out on 40k mile engines or less lol. If its a maintained engine ur good, if it was abused, lack of oil and or oil changes u can bet ur prob gonna throw a rod or silent shaft even can blow right out of the block. the oil pump is a bit of a culprit too for this. they can get gunked up and or worn too much inside as the case (aluminum bare in mind) is the journal for the gears lol. Crap idea right. Igniter boxes are notorious to go bad causing no start issues and the like. You will see no tach signal when key on to start (tach needle wont budge) when this unit goes bad. Very common and 86 uses a smaller black box then the other years (metal case and almost as large as the ecu itself lol. They are all located on the driver side inner
fenderwell.

As far as the alternator issue, over time the wires get corroaded it may or may not be that but your a guy that knows cars u could figure it out or i can walk u through it even.

Onto the cooling system its actually pretty good, what causes people head gaskets to go are a few measly things that could have been avoided in the first place (not counting detonation of course lol that is common sense to keep from happening). The rads are 20 plus years old and they need to be replaced and or rod/cleaned/flushed wut have u. the thermostat, hoses etc need to be replaced, new fresh coolant and ur on ur way to a cool running SQ. the stock heads have jet valves which cause the seats they are in to crack. you simply get a new non jet head. Thats the real way to get around it. Can get them for around 350 shipped to ur door. ARP head studs i always use with a fel-pro 9116pt head gasket and i been fine!!! there is a jet valve elim kit but dont waste ur time (this is assuming the head is stock). there is other things in general that are issues but not of importance necessarily as they most likely arent issues yet or ever will be for the time u own the car. and if they do i can help ya out. as well as some other SQ owners on this site. Theres a few of us lol

[WickedShelby88]

Well I will definitely give it a try if this lancer deal crashes this would not be settling as I've always wanted a starion/conquest. I've just been afraid to own one for a dd due to the electrical gremlins guys warn me about. I have to think some of those are brought on by poor repair/diagnosis. When I lived in Indiana as a kid there was a white one that sat forever at a rather nice house. Before I even had my license it was up for sale. They wanted some rediculous amount for it IIRC so at that point I wanted nothing to do with it. Thanks for the info. If I get it I will have more questions for sure, but this time it will be a toy and not my main car which opens up the door a little. A little more practice with the engines I am building right now won't hurt.

[tsiconquest88]

sounds good man. they arent too bad, as long as u have some heads up on them. which u now do. if u do get it and end up with an issue u can get through it. I would honestly go for an 88-89 though if it came to it. But that is a nice car for the price and rare paint!!

[WickedShelby88]

Well it looks like there isn't too much I can't do with this car. Same was the case with the 87 RX7 N/A car I had when I moved here. The problem with that car was I lived in an apartment and had no storage. The city tried to tow it once so I sold it at a loss. 600 dollars for a rust free sunroof car that rode good and was fairly well maintained. A/C still blew cold even. Also had all the parts to do a 5 speed conversion, plus a spare rear diff.. Oh well. I think it went to a good home. Not sure on that. I don't typically part a car, unless it becomes such an upside down task to fix it I can't even drive it after hundreds have been invested. Rarely is such the case. Really leaning on getting this for my summer toy/spare driver after doing some quick research. I also really need to focus on my projects that are way past due. First things first, but if I can't get this one there will be others:)

[tsiconquest88]

Yea there is def others and i would suggest 88-89 years!!! They are pretty easy to find too. Always one for sale. What TM's do u have anyway?

[WickedShelby88]

I've got an 88 Lancer Shelby for the moment. I used to also have a sante fe blue 86 Shelby Charger but sold that last year to try to help pay for the lancer which didn't work out so well. I like the idea of having a FWD sedan with some balls and a little RWD coupe that should have some as well when I get done with it.. You never know though. You can't expect to jump into something and just connect the dots and make power. You have to know what your doing so I figure in this instance if I'm going to be happy with it I want to take it slow. I had a friend who has a Starion I think and he had 3500 in the engine alone back in 2000-2001. Car had some decent power he said, but he couldn't keep a head on it. Not sure where he was going wrong. From what I understand his fastest times were in the 13's. Things have come a little ways though and with corn cob fuel or alky injection there are some advantages that weren't as well known even then.

[tsiconquest88]

i agree on all that. as to why he couldnt keep a head on? not sure why, i havent had that prob after i did a head gasket. If he wasnt using head studs that might be one reason although i used head bolts on one car i did with an 18g turbo and 18 psi and rocked that setup for quite a while with no issues. I always use a certain head gasket though that he may not have been using. most gaskets tend to go. especially if u dont have a fresh surfaced block and head. gotta be flat. Also had a 89 starion i drove daily for over a year alone with the following setup, evo 3 ported big 16g, lot of tbi upgrades and port work to the intake tb port and mixer, larger rail and larger fitting to AN size from stock, walbro pump etc and i had 22 psi on that with pump gas and no head problem to this day with the new owner. Easy 13's in that car and some weight loss it would be 12's. I roasted sti's and evo's in that car. car was one of 156 as the 89 starions are the rarest. I would have kept it, but i sold it back to the kid i bought it from, i did some work on it for him then he crashed it and it was some rear quarter damage that i thought i would get around to but instead i hopped it up and drove it daily lol. He wrecked a new SS cobalt he bought and offered me triple what i bought it from him for and i said sure thing lol. I love the cars and dont forsee myself not having at least one, im sure one day i wont care bout them no more lol. Probably when im too old to drive or something lol.

[WickedShelby88]

Here is some pics of it. Its got a much nicer interior than the 89 TSi for 1500 I saw, plus a slightly better body.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/JBSHELBYS/Picture132.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/JBSHELBYS/Picture133.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/JBSHELBYS/chris161.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/JBSHELBYS/chris168.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/JBSHELBYS/thchris184.jpg

[tsiconquest88]

yea i seen the car already, i meant pics of the lancer u were thinkin of buyin lol.

[WickedShelby88]

They should of been in the link I sent you. This guy however claims this car would be worth 1500-2000 with a few hours work and a few hundred invested.. I have to wonder about that.

[tsiconquest88]

thats about right, depending the underbody isnt a rotted mess lol. If u get that running and running good and wanna sell it a lot of people would be interested in it. its one of the rarest colors u can get for those cars. I have never seen that color in person, in all the time i have been into the cars and of course that goes for the ones i owned too obviously lol.

[WickedShelby88]

Hmm well I'm trying hard. I have other obligations I need to make sure I can take care of and put those first.

[tsiconquest88]

i hear ya man. i was just sayin if u were to buy it u could prob get what he said after its running good and all.

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah, but if its running I probably won't want to sell it.

[tsiconquest88]

well yea i would hope not lol. With the trouble u told me of for u just tryin to get it to ur house as it is haha.

[moparzrule]

Just a heads up in case you missed it the guy said there's now a BLACK hood on the car, so the pics aren't completely current.

I would pass on an 86' personally, unless it was like 100-200 bucks. It's the reason he can't sell it, everyone that knows anything about starquests knows that 86 is about the worst year to get. Only if you planned to rebuild it from the ground up and wanted a good base to work with, that would be the only way it would be worth it.

[tsiconquest88]

i already told him all he needs to know of the 86 and yes they had their own fi setup BUT they had map sensor and really his location is why many people havent bought it. anything prior to 88-89 years in widebody form are just as bad as 86's anyway unless u go and buy a flatbody cus u like that style, but that 86 is worth it for its rarity and as long as he follows my things i said OR even converts it to 88-89 stuff which isnt much money but some labor time its good to go. thats the part people dont think about. but i already had suggested 88-89 years to him instead but he is concidering it cus of its location to him which is better than most people on the site that were turned off due to their location to the car. lot of aspects to think of in general, its easy to say 86 was the worst year but really anything was the worst year lol. minus the map/mas combination with 2 the same injectors it wasnt any worse then the 87 and prior anyway in the whole dead battery issue with the etacs etc. all years have the same issues anyway for the most part and 88-89 with just a better igniter box which still goes out too. better fuel/air maps though which is why u swap the ecu and injector/mas setups into the 86 intercooled cars (widebody style like the green car pictured).

[tsiconquest88]

also to add to that all year have charging issues if they havent been taken care of already and thats regardless of 86 and all, least of worries for the 86 is its different eci setup over the rest cus thats not hard fixes and swapping is a pretty decent breeze for even a newbie. or getting newer parts for the 86 is fine too. u can actually get more fuel with the 86. they spray more fuel as ur using 2 secondaries type flow rates and at the same time rather then the 88-89 primary with secondary spraying at around 2500 or so.

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah the car is to be a driver/fixer and the problem with charging is definitely not beyond me. For a bolt on and go the 86 is the worst and has some weaker driveline parts. From what I've seen and the fact there are a few in salvage yards in indiana I can have my dad go get parts from I should be fine there. swap to 88-89 ECU is pretty simple really. It is no worse than and probably easier than putting a smec in an L body. Yeah he might not sell it as is which is why he plans on fixing the car then trying to sell for 1500-2000 which I don't think he would get unless he finds the right buyer as there are some 88-89's for sale now for less than that in nicer condition. Found a really nice 88-89 red SQ in ohio for 1200.

[moparzrule]

Like you already said, the axle and clutch setup is weaker...thats major stuff. And like I said, if you plan to just get the car for the shell and build it up, no problem, or keeping it all stock would probably be no problem. But modding the car as is you would be better off just looking for an 88-89 to begin with.

[moparzrule]

Found a really nice 88-89 red SQ in ohio for 1200.


I'd jump on that before buying the 86' anyday.

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah I'm telling you. And the body is in excellent condition. Worth 2k but the guy is selling cheap. would need to sell the lancer ASAP though to get it. Prob is its not running right now and when I do get it running the wife wants me to drive it rather than get an SQ.. So I do have to consider my current obligations. You got the right idea though for the work an 88-89 is probably going to be a better buy. I just like the idea of this 86 cause of the rare color, nice interior and being fairly rust free. Plus swapping the parts would end up happening anyhow and I plan on doing a supra trans swap in the future so the 86 kinda weighs in on a better deal to some degree. Still though I will suprised if the one in ohio isn't sold next week.

[tsiconquest88]

weaker but i never said worthless lol, its still strong enough for some good beatin, he isnt lookin to make a lot of power anyway. it can hold up to what he wants to do. I was just sayin cus he likes the color and all, besides red is common for them lol. and anyway im just basically by his side on it, cus he likes it and i guided him on the ups and downs of the 86 but its def workable. Not really any more problematic than other years anyway lol. he will have an issue no matter what year haha. cant beat it for the rare color and price. Paint isnt too bad which is the important thing and besides the rust areas which he can repair himself its not too bad for the money.

im not sayin ur wrong or anything just sayin its not all that bad to have an 86. Mainly cus wut he is lookin to do. there is people that think the 86's are great and they can be. can be even greater after 88-89 axles/tranny-clutch setup. but not necessary for a driver with decent power. Besides all rare cars need love lol. Like a spirit RT or any other TM u dont really see one neglected if it can be saved, no matter what downfaults it has. someone saves it sometime in its life and makes it something.

[WickedShelby88]

Yes and a cheap fun car that you can repair yourself makes it all the better. Porsche handling, rwd, and a stout mitsu engine. What more could you ask for;)
This 86 definitely deserves a good home and on the forums I've noticed a lot of guys like the 86 because you can still have the wide body, but its the lightest of them.

[tsiconquest88]

that, i didnt know- lightest of the widebody? did they say what stuff made it lighter? i didnt recall much difference for a significant weight loss from 86 and on, 87 was the same thing just regular primary/secondary style injector function. had the same axles and such. there isnt much weight difference from the 6 bolt and 4 bolt axles. maybe a couple pounds lol. the clutch setup is a mere 25 mm larger for 88-89 from 87 prior so the weight isnt anything there just a larger clutch surface to grab. I am interested in finding this out. I know the 86 & prior flatty is lighter then the widebodies of course as they didnt have the ground fx and flairs the widebody had. some lighter interior stuff too on the flattys.

[WickedShelby88]

Maybe that was what they were referring to but I could of sworn that included the wide body. This one will get a supra trans if it ever makes any power. Potentially could use the RX7 trans, but I like that bell housing the guy is making for the supra trans to be a drop in a little too much;) At any rate stock would work for quite some time.

[thefitisgay]

sorry for being off topic and stealing hte thread but do you guys think one of our motors would fit in there kinda easy or would it be a fighter?

i think a turbo 2.5 would make for a nice drift car

[moparzrule]

It would work if you would make it a hybrid 16v. But as is, the 2.2/2.5 wasn't designed to be a RWD engine because the way it has to face the intake/turbo would be into the firewall.

[thefitisgay]

my friends kid has one i was thinking about trying to get it for like 300 bucks because its pretty beat and putting a familiar motor in it...

i should look at it more... think a chop and weld intake would be able to work?

maybe a dakota trans some custom mounts

[SebringLX]

It would work if you would make it a hybrid 16v. But as is, the 2.2/2.5 wasn't designed to be a RWD engine because the way it has to face the intake/turbo would be into the firewall.

Thought they used the 2.5 in the Dakota for a long time?

[moparzrule]

Yes I have a 90' dakota 2.5/5 speed. But it's a TBI so nothing is close to the firewall like a turbo intake, and a completely different designed exhaust manifold.
You could take a 2 piece intake, chop off the 90 degree elbow and weld it on the other side. You'd also have to completely fab a tubular exhuast manifold though.

Notice the side motor mount bracket (which is now on the front) being the same because this engine was designed for FWD.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/DakotaEngine1.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/DakotaEngine2.jpg

[tsiconquest88]

looks like plenty of room on that passenger side to me, but im sayin by looks so im assuming u have measured and or tried?

[SebringLX]

Looks like there's plenty of room to me too...

If you're saying the passenger side doesn't have enough room, is there more room on the drivers side? A 2.4L might work better... there are heads that face either direction for those... so if one way doesn't work, try a different head. I suppose you could maybe do that with a 2.5 too... don't you guys use 2.4L heads for 16V conversions?

[tsiconquest88]

heck i put a 350 in an 88 conquest i had in the past. i seen a 501 caddy motor in an rx7 lol.

[WickedShelby88]

No swaps for this car unless its getting a 4G63 which I wouldn't have too much trouble doing and would easily smoke the 350 scenerio in terms of balls and handling. Nothing like 500hp in a 3000 pound car driven by a 4 banger..

[tsiconquest88]

lol, the 350 i built to 450 spec but i def missed the turbo 2.6 might sound crazy and even though it could pop the front end up a few inches i def said i will never go back to swapping out a 2.6 again and havent yet lol. almost went 4g64 with a 4g63 head but nope not gonna do it lol. I have a 2.6 i fully built up a few years ago with pretty much nuthing left undone except went with race prepped stock rods which are more then enough over going with 800 dollar pauter rods which, mods even have to be done to install and they are for the sq lol, waiting to get in the blue 89 i got.

[SebringLX]

So, are you getting it or what? ;)

[WickedShelby88]

It won't be this week.

[tsiconquest88]

lol in good time

[bfarroo]

looks like plenty of room on that passenger side to me, but im sayin by looks so im assuming u have measured and or tried?

It fits fine, a custom intake and exhaust manifold would make things much easier as the turbo is really close to the suspension and firewall. Also the exhaust comming out of the turbo toward the front of the truck on the stock turbo makes routing the exhaust a pain. One of these days I'll go through it and do it right. I just wanted to get it in there and see how it does. I've pulled my shadow with it all winter.

http://www.extremepsi.org/gallery/albums/album11/DSC00128.jpg

[moparzrule]

looks like plenty of room on that passenger side to me, but im sayin by looks so im assuming u have measured and or tried?


Looks like there's plenty of room to me too...

If you're saying the passenger side doesn't have enough room, is there more room on the drivers side? A 2.4L might work better... there are heads that face either direction for those... so if one way doesn't work, try a different head. I suppose you could maybe do that with a 2.5 too... don't you guys use 2.4L heads for 16V conversions?

What are you guys talking about? I didn't say passenger or drivers side, I said FIREWALL. The intake neck and turbo would be into the firewall with the stock turbo setup. And my post #29 is where I mention about it being easy with a hybrid 16v setup having the intake/exhaust on different sides. That would work better/easier.

[moparzrule]

It fits fine, a custom intake and exhaust manifold would make things much easier as the turbo is really close to the suspension and firewall. Also the exhaust comming out of the turbo toward the front of the truck on the stock turbo makes routing the exhaust a pain. One of these days I'll go through it and do it right. I just wanted to get it in there and see how it does. I've pulled my shadow with it all winter.

http://www.extremepsi.org/gallery/albums/album11/DSC00128.jpg

Quite and interesting project you got there! I was going to turbo the TBI, which would only require a custom header and remote mount turbo, I was just going to run ~5 PSI boost and make my own carb hat for the TB with a rising rate regulator.
Is that a stock exhuast manifold? How were you able to hook up the intake pipe on the turbo??? How much firewall clearance was there? Didn't look like enough to me, I knew for a fact the intake neck would never ever clear, but man that engine is tight against the firewall in my 90' dakota anyway.

[tsiconquest88]

we are talking where u said if u had the 2.5 or even 2.2 turbo fwd motor turned for rear wheel drive it wouldnt fit cus the intake. so if u think about it, if the motor was turned for rear wheel the intake would be on the passenger side of the engine bay and there is plenty of room. thats all we had meant.

[moparzrule]

The intake does not fit because the throttle body would be through the firewall! That was my point. You can see what I mean from bfarroo's pic, showing how the intake was modified to work.

[tsiconquest88]

yea i get what u mean but when u said if u set the engine to be rear wheel drive then the intake would be on the passenger side of the engine bay once u turned the engine to have the tranny side of the engine face the firewall. which then there would be room for the intake and all. i get what ur sayin but im talkin when u said if u wanted the 2.5 turbo dodge motor to be rear wheel facing.

[moparzrule]

Right, I said it could be done of course but requires custom intake and exhaust manifolds.

[WickedShelby88]

The 8 valve mopar head sucks for this application anyhow. I wouldn't be beyond running a 2.3 or 2.5 ford engine if you want to stay 8 valves. There are many more options for those heads. Then you can practically drop in a 6 speed as well.. No more off kilter than swapping in a Mopar engine to what is really a Mitsubishi. If I wanted power to weight I'd just go with an LS1 anyhow, but on the cost side a 2.4 and supra trans might be more practical. Hmm it really wouldn't be too hard to drop a 2.3/T5 into a dakota. Those ford 8 valves respond pretty well to a SMEC or SBEC setup.

[moparzrule]

2.3 turbo's are good engines.

[WickedShelby88]

hehe.. Especially the one that was in my 86 SVO. With forged crank and pistons, crower sportsman rods, motorsport cam (like S60) open 3" exhaust it was making 280hp at the wheels with a stock turbo at around 20 psi. Not bad for an old ford. I think there was a lot left on the table as it was basically running out of fuel with the stock injectors pretty much at their limit.

[thefitisgay]

my goal wasnt to stick with 8 valves it was just trying to make a motor that im familiar with work in a rwd setup


and are there actually parts availible for those 2.3 fords?

[moparzrule]

yeah tons, but they aren't that cheap.

[thefitisgay]

lol great the things not getting phased out are made of gold

i didnt think they would be around because ive only ever seen 2 in real life this guy has one a few blocks from my house and i saw one in a junkyard

[WickedShelby88]

The 2.3 ford engines are pretty common and can be made to make decent power stock. Mine basically only had aftermarket rods and cam and was quite a revver. In first and second it wasn't hard to accidentally hit the rev limiter which was around 6400 rpm. Yeah I know you can get an 8V tm to do that, but there is a lot of potential for about the same cost. You can also bolt on a 16V volvo head to the 2.3 or 2.5 block(ford that is) and with a small aluminum block welded to the back to cover the block. All the coolant and oil ports match up! Much easier than our hybrid setups. Something to think about. The heads run pretty cheap if you can find them somewhere. Otherwise there are occasional bargains on the ford forums. More options for our 16V heads though. Also there are more options if you go 2.4/2.0, but to do rwd is much more of a drop in with the ford variety or get the SQ block an eclipse head either an RX7 or supra trans with adapter bellhousing and you have a powerplant easily capable of 500 hp with the right mods and even more actually. Basically like dropping an EVO engine in a RWD platform:eyebrows:

[tsiconquest88]

hey just so u know, the sq block and dsm dohc head dont bolt together. ur thinkin of the (sohc) 2.4 wideblock in the 90 or so mazda truck, which that engine does bolt to the sq tranny and just about direct bolt-in to the engine bay and uses sq engine mounts except 2 the same side (2 passenger side if im not mistaken), BUT that wideblock accepts a dohc dsm head. Just clarifying for ya bud.

[moparzrule]

Anybody local to Harrisburg PA? Who wants a 2.3L?

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/pts/1138373501.html