Air/fuel ratio reading..

[Turbo_Rampage]

Hey, I have a few more problems with my Rampage.. I was reading on TD.com http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86201&page=2&highlight=02+ground+fuel+rail and Russ W. Knize (Minimopar) said that the best ground place for your Air/Fuel gauge is the fuel rail bolt. so i moved my Auto Meter Air/Fuel ratio ground wire to the fuel rail ground strap on the firewall, and i lost my 02 feedback at cruise! It doesnt bounce back and forth from lean to stoitch anymore, it just lights up the last LED in stoitch while cruising, and when i go to WOT it lights up the 3rd LED in rich. it also doesnt light up at all when i let off the throttle. I had the gauge seperatly grounded to the drivers side kickpanel before, and it worked fine...(bounced back and fourth at cruise) Do you think i am getting a more accurate reading from my new ground location? Does this sound like a bad 02 sensor? I am running a Bosch 02 right now with about 3500Km's on it. I am going to be getting a NTK brand 02 sensor a.s.a.p. because i heard that Bosch is garbage. What do you think is causing my gauge to act funny? Also i checked my plugs, and it looks like its running slightly lean. I know my fuel pressure is good because i have an electric FP gauge mounted in my car (60psi static, 70psi @ 10lbs boost) Could a bad 02 sensor cause my car to run lean?

Thanks in advance. Randy

[89ShelbyGuy]

I don't agree with the BEST place to put the ground. The BEST place is the negitive on the battery. I would move it..On the autometer gauges. the lights usally bounch back and forth..this is normal...Change the ground...or atleast check it on the fire wall...check the connectings for corrosion..

LMK what goes on.

Tom

[Turbo_Rampage]

I don't agree with the BEST place to put the ground. The BEST place is the negitive on the battery. I would move it..On the autometer gauges. the lights usally bounch back and forth..this is normal...Change the ground...or atleast check it on the fire wall...check the connectings for corrosion..

LMK what goes on.

Tom


Thanks, I will run the ground directly to the battery next weakend and see if that helps, :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I ground them directly to the battery. Tom is right! Boy that's a 1st :) hehe j/k

[BrassMonkeY]

they can do some wierd things. mine will stay on a green led, when i check codes and the check engine light comes on it will jump a couple lights to the left. its funny.

[89ShelbyGuy]

I ground them directly to the battery. Tom is right! Boy that's a 1st hehe j/k

Ok....ok..i see how it is! :p :evil:

[iTurbo]

+1 on the negative battery post.

I have a somewhat similar question regarding the gauge ground..

On my Omni GLH, I have relocated the battery to the passenger side above where the charcoal canister used to be. I have the A/F gauge ground wire run to the negative battery terminal and they gauge works good but it seems to light up a lot of the adjacent lights making the gauge 'blurry' and hard to read. I'm wondering if it might be because the ground wire runs right across the ignition coil wire and there might be interference causing the gauge to act this way?? I was thinking of running the ground wire to the fuel rail bolt instead but this thread has changed my mind.

[89ShelbyGuy]

What kind of wire are you using? Gauge? Type? Where do you have it routed threw the engine bay?

Try re routing the wire....you know, not near the coil....now you say blurry? What kind of gauge do you have? On mine 3 light up on my autometer a/f gauge...its all good.

LMK

Tom

[Turbo_Rampage]

I don't agree with the BEST place to put the ground. The BEST place is the negitive on the battery. I would move it..On the autometer gauges. the lights usally bounch back and forth..this is normal...Change the ground...or atleast check it on the fire wall...check the connectings for corrosion..

LMK what goes on.

Tom

I ran the wire directly to the battery yesterday (soldered connections) and its still doing the same thing.. I also replaced the Bosch 02 sensor with a new NTK sensor, and it still hasnt changed. It pegs rich at WOT and lights up the last lean LED when i lift off the throttle, but doesnt bounce back and fourth at cruise anymore. After trying the ground on the battery i put the wire back where i had it before (side kick panel) and it still didnt fix my problem,:( Do you think when i hooked the A/F gauge ground wire to the fuel rail bolt on the firewall it wrecked my gauge??

....by the looks of my spark plugs my my car is still running lean,:banghead: I cannot figure this problem out!

[iTurbo]

What kind of wire are you using? Gauge? Type? Where do you have it routed threw the engine bay?

Try re routing the wire....you know, not near the coil....now you say blurry? What kind of gauge do you have? On mine 3 light up on my autometer a/f gauge...its all good.

LMK

Tom

It's a 20 light Autometer A/F. I have the gauge ground wire going through a grommet on the firewall under the master cylinder. From there is goes up to the main harness along the top of the firewall behind the intake manifold, coming out near the solenoids behind the battery right across the top of the ignition coil wire. By 'blurry' I mean lots of lights light up as in 1/2 the gauge is lit up sometimes and it's impossible to tell where it really should be reading. It's brightest around the middle of the lights that are lit up.

I don't have this problem (at least not as bad) on my Shelby Lancer. It's also grounded to the negative post, but the battery is still in the stock location.

[turbovanman²]

Best place is the oxgyen sensor ground.

If its not flicking at cruise, thats not so bad, mine doesn't do it all the time, depends on engine load, temp etc. Use propane to check the sensor-idle engine, make sure its hot, let the propane enter the engine thru air filter or pcv valve-Don't make a vacuum leak, air/fuel gauge should be pegged. If not, the sensor is junk. Now cause a vacuum leak, the guage should now read full lean. If not, sensor is junk. If the sensor passes both tests then don't worry about it. Also, make sure you disconnected the battery while you replaced it, to clear out the memory.

[Turbo_Rampage]

Best place is the oxgyen sensor ground.

Where would that be on a 1-wire 02?


If its not flicking at cruise, thats not so bad, mine doesn't do it all the time, depends on engine load, temp etc. Use propane to check the sensor-idle engine, make sure its hot, let the propane enter the engine thru air filter or pcv valve-Don't make a vacuum leak, air/fuel gauge should be pegged. If not, the sensor is junk. Now cause a vacuum leak, the guage should now read full lean. If not, sensor is junk. If the sensor passes both tests then don't worry about it.


I have a brand new NTK 02 sensor so it should be working perfect, right?

Another thing i didnt add to this post is i put back in my MP logic module (as well as another MAP sensor) at the same time i moved my ground for my A/F gauge from the kickpanel to the firewall ground strap. (put A/F ground back to the kickpanel, after trying it directly to the battery) Could my MP computer be causing my A/F gauge to act up? I will put back in the stock LM tomorrow, and see if i get my 02 feedback at cruise again. The gauge also light up 2 to 3 lights at a time now.. Do you have any ideas on why my car could be running lean? could a bad MAP sensor or air/temp sensor cause my car to run lean? I set the base timing to 10*, and checked the cam timing and its perfect. I will post up some pics of my plugs a.s.a.p. to show you how white they look. I think i need to hook a scanner up to my car and see whats going on...


Also, make sure you disconnected the battery while you replaced it, to clear out the memory.

I had the battery disconected when i replaced the 02 sensor.


Thanks. Randy

[turbovanman²]

Sorry, didn't realize it was a one wire so what you did is fine.

Don't worry about flickering at cruise, the only thing your concerned with is what is says at WOT. If you did the propane test and the guage pegged then the sensor is fine. Only be concerned if your not rich enough at WOT.

[Turbo_Rampage]

Sorry, didn't realize it was a one wire so what you did is fine.

Don't worry about flickering at cruise, the only thing your concerned with is what is says at WOT. If you did the propane test and the guage pegged then the sensor is fine. Only be concerned if your not rich enough at WOT.

Thanks for the reply! I think my gauge is really screwed up though.. Its lighting up 4 to 6 lights (bright) at the same time now. When i go to WOT it doesnt always peg full rich so i back out of the throttle right away, because i am unsure if its accurate or not. I also added a bottle of STP octane booster to a full tank (put about 300km's on it) and my plugs are now a light tan colour. Could of backing my timing off 2* and replacing the 02 sensor had to do with the tan colour plugs? I also got an apointment next saturday to run a scanner on it so what should i be looking for on the 02 voltage, TPS, MAP and other various sensors? I also bought a new MOPAR knock sensor, because i was unsure the original 20 year old sensor was still good...

Randy

[turbovanman²]

Tan colour is good, its the chemicals in the gas.

[butchsuppe]

The best ground IS THE BATT. GRD. I,ve got everything going to it. All the sensors, computer etc. etc. Got extra grd cables to eng. + body as well, fixed many problem in the past due to bad grounds, remember alot of the electronics work off small amount of amperage and it does take much resistance to cause a problem. Currently I,m replacing every wire with brand new wire under my hood

[Turbo_Rampage]

My spark plugs are a dark brown colour now (like a brown paper bag colour) after putting another 200Km's on it today, :thumb:the new NTK 02 sensor, and backing off the timing 2* must of helped alot. But i got a new problem today on the way home.. I was on the highway doing 110Km's (in vacuum, no boost) and my car started bucking, and finally stalled. as it was doing this i was watching my fuel pressure gauge (Auto Meter electric fuel pressure gauge mounted in my car) and it was dropping off to 20PSI! after i pulled to the side of the road i tried firing it back up and it barely idled at 20PSI, and then stalled back out again. so i let it sit for 10 minutes and tried it again and my fuel pressure was perfect again so i got back on the road, and it cut out again 1Km down the road, :mad: so i sat their for a half an hour and then tried it again and the fuel pressure was perfect all the way home (about a 10km's away) So it least my TD never left me stranded,:) Does this sound like a dieing fuel pump? Its weird cause usually when a pump dies it leaves you stranded, right? I guess i was lucky.

I will be buying a Walbro 255 pump as well as an AFPR right away. I am also thinking about getting a AEM wideband gauge since my innacurate Auto Meter A/F gauge screwed up on me.

[turbovanman²]

^^^Sounds like pump is going. Your lucky you got home, :thumb:

[Marcus86GLHS]

".......I am also thinking about getting a AEM wideband gauge since my innacurate Auto Meter A/F gauge screwed up on me........."


now that's the best idea for you. my Autometer a/f ratio narrowband gauge is sitting in my junk drawer. good luck with the fixes.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/632000-632999/632619_221_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/632000-632999/632619_222_full.jpg

[Turbo_Rampage]

Thanks for all the info guys! I will be ordering up the AFRP, Walbro pump and most likely an AEM wideband gauge right away, :thumb: I still cant believe it made it home on a dieing pump! but then again it is a reliable TD, :D

[Turbo_Rampage]

I ordered an AFPR, Walbro 255 pump and the AEM wideband gauge,:thumb: But i couldnt wait for the fuel pump so i went and bought a replacement pump from NAPA and its running perfect again,:D

BTW I checked my spark plugs again and #1 and #4 are a nice dark brown colour, and #2 and #3 plugs are not as brown. Also #3 plug has a bit of black specs on it, should i be worried about this?

Thanks

[turbovanman²]

Your injectors could be a bit dirty, are they new?

[Turbo_Rampage]

Your injectors could be a bit dirty, are they new?

They are brand new Mopar #803 injectors, with 60PSI static fuel pressure. Isn't the computer programed to give the 2 middle injectors more fuel because of the poor flowing LOG manifold??

I will be getting my AEM wideband gauge shortly as well as drilling and tapping my exhaust manifold for my pyro gauge. Then i will know for sure whats going on.. at least i hope so,:confused:

[turbovanman²]

They are brand new Mopar #803 injectors, with 60PSI static fuel pressure. Isn't the computer programed to give the 2 middle injectors more fuel because of the poor flowing LOG manifold??

I will be getting my AEM wideband gauge shortly as well as drilling and tapping my exhaust manifold for my pyro gauge. Then i will know for sure whats going on.. at least i hope so,:confused:

Didn't know it was a log manifold. Yes, there supposed to alter the injectors due to the uneven air flow in the log manifold.