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ShelGame
03-17-2009, 11:32 PM
OK, so I started tearing down my 2nd 2.5 tall deck motor tonight. It's only been on the stand since last May.:rolleyes:

I got the head off and was surprised to see that it's a tappered shroud head. But, it's not crossdrilled.:confused2: And, it has a slider cam with a square tooth sprocket. I know the 87 2.5 had the square tooth belt. But, I was surprised that it had the slider cam - I thought they were all roller. And, I was surprised to find a non-crossdrilled, TS, 782 head. I'm 99.9% sure this thing has never been apart. Aside from the grime and sludge, the head is in very good condition.

I wonder if it has turbo exhaust valves? How could I tell?
135sohc
03-17-2009, 11:43 PM
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34611&highlight=magnetic+exhaust+valves
turbovanmanČ
03-18-2009, 12:42 AM
What does the head gasket look like? Thats a huge indication of whether its been apart or not.
ShelGame
03-18-2009, 01:23 PM
What does the head gasket look like? Thats a huge indication of whether its been apart or not.

Uhhh, I tossed it. It looked factory to me, though. It wasn't an MP (I looked for the #) and it didn't look like a felpro. I'll take a pic of the carbon buildup under the valve cover. I can't believe this thing has ever been apart. There's like 1/8" of buildup in places...
BadAssPerformance
03-18-2009, 02:11 PM
OK, so I started tearing down my 2nd 2.5 tall deck motor tonight. It's only been on the stand since last May.:rolleyes:

I got the head off and was surprised to see that it's a tappered shroud head. But, it's not crossdrilled.:confused2: And, it has a slider cam with a square tooth sprocket. I know the 87 2.5 had the square tooth belt. But, I was surprised that it had the slider cam - I thought they were all roller. And, I was surprised to find a non-crossdrilled, TS, 782 head. I'm 99.9% sure this thing has never been apart. Aside from the grime and sludge, the head is in very good condition.

I wonder if it has turbo exhaust valves? How could I tell?

Everything '87 and older is a slider and '88+ is roller, some sliders on '88's... trivia, but some '88 rollers also had the cam cap squirters where newer roller heads did not.

Only x-drilled '87 was T2 2.2L....
ShelGame
03-18-2009, 02:26 PM
Everything '87 and older is a slider and '88+ is roller, some sliders on '88's... trivia, but some '88 rollers also had the cam cap squirters where newer roller heads did not.

Only x-drilled '87 was T2 2.2L....

So, were the '87 T1's 'TS' heads?
BadAssPerformance
03-18-2009, 06:54 PM
So, were the '87 T1's 'TS' heads?

I thought all turbo heads were?
Captain Chaos
03-18-2009, 07:07 PM
I think it says that on thedodgegarage website that if it has TS stamped on the end its a turbo head. And I would assume an early 782 head like on my GLHS isn't crossdrilled either.
ShelGame
03-18-2009, 07:11 PM
I wonder if all the 2.5 tall decks got the TS heads? Or maybe this was just a leftover...
BadAssPerformance
03-18-2009, 07:12 PM
Are you sure its the original head?
ShelGame
03-18-2009, 09:58 PM
I can't be sure, but if it's not - that enigne has a TON of miles on it...
ShelGame
04-04-2009, 09:59 PM
OK, well this is definitely a turbo head. The exhaust valve faces are non-magnetic, just like evey other (known) turbo head/valve I have. Odd, why would the tall deck engine get a turbo head? This was not a turbo conversion either, it came out of the junkyeard with the TBI manifolds and throttle body on it...
WickedShelby88
04-04-2009, 10:28 PM
Good find! I will have to check the one in the local yard to see if it has the same type of application. Interesting stuff indeed. Sounds like a good score for sure.
1985ShlbyChrger
04-04-2009, 10:50 PM
All 3 TBI engines I've had had the TS heads on them.
TopDollar69
04-04-2009, 11:16 PM
The 2.5L TBI tall deck that was in my 86 T&C wagon had a TS head on it as well. I'm almost 100% sure it had never been apart either. From what I understand most if not all tall deck 2.5L engines have TS heads. My personal opinion is that is has something to do with the pistons being the same as the 2.2L turbo. The only odd thing seems to be the roller cam, but that could have been replaced due to worn lobes on the orginal slider cam. It seems like most sliders I've seen with over 100k miles have worn lobes, and should be replaced with new cams.
mock_glh
04-06-2009, 10:49 AM
Perhaps the factory chose the TS head to accomodate the extra displacement of the 2.5L.
WickedShelby88
04-06-2009, 11:25 AM
From what I read at one time they were developing a DOHC head for the 2.5 n/a about the same time as the T3 so perhaps this was a spinoff of cost cutting as the final budget killed the 16V program for the 2.5.
tvanlant
04-14-2009, 06:02 PM
The dodge garage's head section is not set in stone, but more of a guide. I believe they wrote that based upon assumptions from what they had seen, not from documented text that came from chrysler.

The TS stamp has NO significance.

I have pulled tons of heads. Some are TBI engines with TS stamps. Some are turbo heads without TS stamps. But the best part is.... some heads that ARE stamped TS are NOT tapered shroud. Some heads that ARE NOT stamped TS ARE tapered shroud.

For the valves... some turbo valves are stamped T. Some are not, but they are still the turbo valves.

The best way to determine a turbo head from a non-turbo head is which valves are in it. However, there is really no reason to do this in the first place. If you have the head off and to the point you are concerned about valves and tapered shroud, you should just have new valves put in it anyway. They are cheap.
If you are looking for a head to build up for your car, go with a TBI head. They have seen much less heat/stress than the turbo heads and much less likely to have cracks/warpage/dropping guides/etc.
If you are looking for the best performing head in stock trim (such as what Rob needs for NHRA) , then you'll have to pull off the heads and actually look for a head with a tapered shroud. Don't go by the silly stamp.
ShelGame
04-14-2009, 07:07 PM
The dodge garage's head section is not set in stone, but more of a guide. I believe they wrote that based upon assumptions from what they had seen, not from documented text that came from chrysler.

The TS stamp has NO significance.

I have pulled tons of heads. Some are TBI engines with TS stamps. Some are turbo heads without TS stamps. But the best part is.... some heads that ARE stamped TS are NOT tapered shroud. Some heads that ARE NOT stamped TS ARE tapered shroud.

For the valves... some turbo valves are stamped T. Some are not, but they are still the turbo valves.

The best way to determine a turbo head from a non-turbo head is which valves are in it. However, there is really no reason to do this in the first place. If you have the head off and to the point you are concerned about valves and tapered shroud, you should just have new valves put in it anyway. They are cheap.
If you are looking for a head to build up for your car, go with a TBI head. They have seen much less heat/stress than the turbo heads and much less likely to have cracks/warpage/dropping guides/etc.
If you are looking for the best performing head in stock trim (such as what Rob needs for NHRA) , then you'll have to pull off the heads and actually look for a head with a tapered shroud. Don't go by the silly stamp.


Luckily, the intake valve unshrouding is easy to see. All of the heads I have are tapered shroud, turbo exhaust valve heads...
turbovanmanČ
04-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Luckily, the intake valve unshrouding is easy to see. All of the heads I have are tapered shroud, turbo exhaust valve heads...

Do you have a pic of the difference???
contraption22
04-14-2009, 09:34 PM
If you are looking for a head to build up for your car, go with a TBI head. They have seen much less heat/stress than the turbo heads and much less likely to have cracks/warpage/dropping guides/etc.

I'll disagree with this, at least as far as the dropping guides part. I've seen three 8v heads with dropped valves. One was an 89 TBI Omni with 55k on it. Another was an 89 shadow with a 2.2 TBI. And the third was my 1993 Acclaim, and the head was replaced under the 7/70.
tvanlant
04-14-2009, 09:39 PM
I agree that the NA heads drop guides as well. I hardly come across any head, turbo or NA, that has all the guides at the same height. However, the TBI heads I get usually never have under 100K on the odometer. Most of the turbo cars with any kind of mileage on them have had the head off at some point, so it is hard to tell exactly what reason cause the head to be taken off.
ShelGame
04-14-2009, 10:06 PM
Do you have a pic of the difference???

I can take a pic of a TS head, but I don't have a non-TS head (anymore - it got modified) to show the difference. Basically, the TS head has machine work around in the intake valve in the chamber to unsroud the valve. A very slight cut (10deg or so?). The non-TS head has no machining around the intake valve. You'll probably have to clean the carbon off to see the machining.