Dyno bet thread

[86Shelby]

I have an appointment with The Shop Inc. to put my R/T on the rollers next week. Thought it would be fun to get some guesses and do some bench racing before the day comes. The dyno is a Mustang Dyno.

Here's the powertrain specs:
FWDP stage 5 cal Might also try the stage 4 I have in reserve depending on how things look
3-bar map
+40 injectors
Bone stock head (complete with a crack) and stock intake.
Stock cams -degreed dead on to factory specs and will be adjusted to see what works the best.
Spearco FMIC from FWDP with extra ducting taking air from the lower opening in the bumper right into the intercooler.
T3/T4 hybrid. 50 trim compressor, E housing, .63 A/R turbine housing, Stage 3 wheel.
Lonewolf ported & thermal coated exhaust manifold. Coating is over 4 years and 20k miles old FWIW.
Exhaust is 2.75" for the first 14" then is 3" to the rear bumper. No cat.
Only mods to the bottom end consist of ARP hardware, a crank scraper and a 2.2L oil pan. It has about 2,000 miles on a rebuild.
I plan to run 20-22 psi on 91 octane pump gas; more if I can get away with it. Not sure if I'll bother putting in any 100 or 110 since it does have a full tank at the moment. I'm not out for max effort numbers; I just want to have piece of mind that everything is ok and to take advantage of thier winter dyno special.


Personally, I'd like to see 275-325 at the wheels. Think I'm nuts? In the ballpark?

[Turbo3Iroc]

I think you're right in the ballpark. Been wanting to see if cam timing adjustments do anything from the factory spec so let us know.

[BadAssPerformance]

Personally, I'd like to see 275-325 at the wheels. Think I'm nuts? In the ballpark?

T-III? Hybrid Turbo? I would hope for a lot more whp... at least at your high end. Pending tuning of course.

[RJ138]

My guess would be 336.8 hp and 347.3 ft lbs with 91 octane on a Mustang dyno.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Mustang Dynos are known to read a bit low. They call it more accurate but everyone seems to go off of DynoJets numbers. I say it's best to expect low and then be happy you got past where you expected to than to aim high and possibly fall short.

[1966 dart wagon]

With what you have done i would be expecting about the same. Good luck :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

T-III? Hybrid Turbo? I would hope for a lot more whp... at least at your high end. Pending tuning of course.

He did list the HYBRID turbo specs and this is the TIII section, :p :lol:

I would guess around 325, 20 psi, the turbo is just waking up. I dynoed at 290 at the same boost when I first threw my engine together, no tuning.

[CSXT802]

You should make 325+. Hell I made 348 on a mustang dyno, and you have 8 more valves.;)

[turbovanman²]

You should make 325+. Hell I made 348 on a mustang dyno, and you have 8 more valves.;)

How much boost? :eyebrows:

[RoadWarrior222]

My predictions...

First run: 280HP (Black smoke rich)
Second run: 312HP
Third run: the head and two rods... crank and block too if the guy on the pedal has slow reactions.

:p

[86Shelby]

T-III? Hybrid Turbo? I would hope for a lot more whp... at least at your high end. Pending tuning of course.

I play things close to the vest with this car. Damn thing gets expensive to repair. If I can push it further than planned and still be nice and safe I certainly will. I'd love to see 500 whp, but it's just not going to happen...well maybe if you'd come to Lincoln and give the car some B.A.P. love it could happen. ;)

[CSXT802]

How much boost? :eyebrows:

25-26 psi with a little meth/h20.:evil:

[BadAssPerformance]

I play things close to the vest with this car. Damn thing gets expensive to repair. If I can push it further than planned and still be nice and safe I certainly will. I'd love to see 500 whp, but it's just not going to happen...well maybe if you'd come to Lincoln and give the car some B.A.P. love it could happen. ;)

LOL, would love to come out, but I dont have any magic love :o Just play it safe, watch the wide band, make sure you have plenty of fuel to support the boost, and it will make the power... :thumb:

[snoman]

My predictions...

First run: 280HP (Black smoke rich)
Second run: 312HP
Third run: the head and two rods... crank and block too if the guy on the pedal has slow reactions.

:p

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
sorry but thats dam funny...
kinda how i expect my dyno day to go!

[jl93sundance]

My guess is around the 325hp range.

[86Shelby]

The results are in. Peak numbers are not what I expected. The good thing is that I gained 100 hp at 6k rpm all said & done. We believe the calibration simply is not matched to the combo I'm running; which doesn't suprise me one bit since it's a second-hand cal made for someone else's car.

Started out with 15psi. Reached that boost by 3700 rpm. Running pig rich, steady 9:1 once 10 psi came steadily decreasing to 8.6:1. That gave me a peak of 191 hp @ 5000 rpm and 225 ft/lb at 4000 rpm. Power fell off a cliff at 5000 and was only making 125 hp at 6000 rpm.

Lowered the fuel pressure over the next 2 runs a total of 15 psi. Noticed 9* of timing being pulled at 3000, when the mix was 12:1 with 6 psi of boost. Ended up with the AFR steady at 10.8-11:1. This brought the peak power up to 215ish at about 5000. It did bring up power over 5000 considerably ending with 150 at 6000. My notes weren't excellent and didn't print those runs out. Still at 15 psi boost. One peculiar thing we noticed is that the power was noticably higher when timing was being pulled as the power dropped off immediatly when full timing was given; to the tune of 15 or so hp.

Then we raised the boost and could only get 17 psi out of it. I figured that the ported wastegate hole is causing it to open. We tried using a grainger valve on it and were rewarded with a spike to 23 psi, then dropped to 17 after 4000 rpm. After adjusting it tighter and having a larger spike with the same 17 psi following it we set the boost for a steady 17 and left it alone. That's the real bummer as more boost would have only helped things out for power. The cal likely had enough fuel to go much, much higher.

The next 5 runs we adjusted the cam timing and found great gains! All said & done we found that retarding the intake 10* and advancing the exhaust 4* gave us minimal differences (-2 to +5) hp & (+5-10) torque below 4500 rpm. After that point things really took off. At 5000 rpm we had a 15 hp gain with a gain of around 20 ft/lb. By 6000 rpm the gap widened to approximately +55 hp and +35 tq.

I wish I had been able to get a printout of each run with my notes; though I do remember seeing a gain of over 25 hp by simply retarding the intake 6*.

Peak numbers ended up being 228 hp @ 5500 and 232 ft/lb @ 4500. Oh well, the car lived and is noticeably quicker up top.

[Ondonti]

frustrating yet interesting for you I bet.

I am guessing your wastegate can needs a spring or something like that.

More boost probably would have quelled your rich condition :P

[turbovanman²]

Wow, thats pretty low, :(

Even the van on a G-head cal put out 290 whp. ;)

[rx2mazda]

WOW, that sucks!!!! My car put down 242whp almost stock. I hope you can get that thing running right. How was the FWDP Stage V cal made for another car?

[86Shelby]

WOW, that sucks!!!! My car put down 242whp almost stock. I hope you can get that thing running right. How was the FWDP Stage V cal made for another car?

I bought it used from a guy in Canada since he had a similar engine combo to go along with my ported head, intake and larger cams. The head & cams got damaged over a year ago so I'm running old stock stuff for now.

[86Shelby]

frustrating yet interesting for you I bet.

I am guessing your wastegate can needs a spring or something like that.

More boost probably would have quelled your rich condition :P

+1 on all three counts. The wastegate has a helper spring on it right now. I wish I hadn't ported the wastegate hole; it was a knee jerk reaction to a wierd boost issue I had last spring- no matter what I tried I couldn't control the boost, even with the puck disconnected and wide open I would still see 25+ psi. I never ran it WOT like that to see just how high it would go- I normally chickened out after 20 psi.

[rx2mazda]

I bought it used from a guy in Canada since he had a similar engine combo to go along with my ported head, intake and larger cams. The head & cams got damaged over a year ago so I'm running old stock stuff for now.

So, it's a FWD stage 5 that was made for a ported head and performance cam? I'm running a stg 5 with stock head and cams too.

[86Shelby]

You are correct; it was done with all the good stuff in mind. Hopefully yours was made for a more stock setup.

[86Shelby]

Here's a quick scan of my first run vs. the last one. Great gains after 4000 rpm. Numbers still suck.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/thumbs/dyno_run_comparison.jpg (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=11844)

[Ondonti]

I noticed that "filtering" is on 6 which I assume is "smoothing"

That dyno sheet looks totally fubared even with 6 smoothing. you see anyone else dyno on that dyno recently?

[rx2mazda]

I noticed that "filtering" is on 6 which I assume is "smoothing"

That dyno sheet looks totally fubared even with 6 smoothing. you see anyone else dyno on that dyno recently?

+1

Also, your turbo is spooling way late! My holset is at full song by 3700rpms. :confused: Why did you port the wg hole, were you having boost creep before?

[Ondonti]

+1

Also, your turbo is spooling way late! My holset is at full song by 3700rpms. :confused: Why did you port the wg hole, were you having boost creep before?


+1 on all three counts. The wastegate has a helper spring on it right now. I wish I hadn't ported the wastegate hole; it was a knee jerk reaction to a wierd boost issue I had last spring- no matter what I tried I couldn't control the boost, even with the puck disconnected and wide open I would still see 25+ psi. I never ran it WOT like that to see just how high it would go- I normally chickened out after 20 psi.

Reread.

He has a stage 3 wheel in a .63 housing too. Your holset SHOULD spool faster.

BTW, why was the Stage 4 calibration not tried if you had it? That would have been a better use of your dyno time.


Why did you have the stage 5 on in the first place?

[turboshad]

That is definately one screwed dyno graph. My guess is he has a bad connection somewhere in the circuit.

At least with the results you know you have more in her. With my 8V 50 trim t3/t4 stg 2 0.63 housing I made 268hp/320ftlb with knock and the computer pulling timing and falling on it's face in the top end. If the knock wasn't there I am very confident it was over 300. Unfortunately I dropped a valve on the way to the dyno right after I fixed the knock issue which was a leaking valve seal so I never got a chance to see the 300 on paper.

It seems like you have the right components and just need to fine tune or get a better suited cal. At the time I was using a cal from Paul Velicky.

[86Shelby]

BTW, why was the Stage 4 calibration not tried if you had it? That would have been a better use of your dyno time.
Why did you have the stage 5 on in the first place?

I ran out of time once we figured it could be a cuplrit, plain & simple. I had a choice, swap the cal and hope for the best or do a couple more runs to dial in the cams. I realized a hell of a gain by adjusting the cams further; so I do not regret the decision. If there were no gains to be had I would certainly be rethinking that decision. Oh well, it's not like I can't go back at a later date. I can also throw the cal in and use a wideband to make sure everything is good A/F wise with the scantool monitoring knock.

The stage 5 was alledgedly made for a lightly ported head & stage 1 Lonewolf cams. My stage 4 is for a stage 3 ported head & cams by Lonewolf. Both cals were done back in early '05 and I understand the cals have improved a lot in 4 years....yet more inticement into a new cal.

[turbovanman²]

+1

Also, your turbo is spooling way late! My holset is at full song by 3700rpms. :confused: Why did you port the wg hole, were you having boost creep before?

Yep, thats about right, 4000 grand. Mine hits full boost around 4100 rpm. Its ok, helps the tires live, :nod:

[Ondonti]

so you have 2 calibrations for better flowing setups then you have.....any plans to fix the heads or cams?

[86Shelby]

Went to a dyno day at the local Dynojet dyno and put the R/T on. Things went well overall; damn crack in the head stopped further gains since it kept drowning the #3 plug. It only leaks a lot when at high RPMs when you need the hot spark the most. The best clean pull was at 22 psi which netted me 321 hp @ 5400 and 326 ft/lb @ 4700. It was still making a little over 300hp when I let off at 6300. The new downpipe didn't make as much of a difference in spool time as I thought it would have, reaching full tilt at the same 3900 rpm range although the boost is much more stable with the external gate.

This was done on a different dyno than the last time, and roughly 2 years apart so they aren't very comparable.

[Dr.Evil]

This was done on a different dyno than the last time, and roughly 2 years apart so they aren't very comparable.

And you still have a crack in the head 2 years later!? Get that baby welded up already!

[86Shelby]

I'm gunshy on having it repaired. The only TIII head I had repaired practically ruined the lonewolf ported head and cams because the jackasz warped the head which severely damaged the journals and cam bores. $1500 bucks now sits damaged and unuseable.

[RoadWarrior222]

Damaged as in, you can't get them in, or damaged as in you could and they chewed up? ... coz you could try baking it out to stress relieve if if it's the first.

[86Shelby]

Chewed up. It only leaks at high rpm, so as a cruiser and occasional WOT fun it's just fine.

[Vigo]

So what did you fix between the first dyno and the second? It seems entirely possible to me that the 1st dyno was just plain full of ---- but if it WASNT then you had major issues.

[Ondonti]

Maybe try brazing up some of the leak....

[Juggy]

whats with all these piisssss pooor TIII dyno #s????

I think they are very sad. seriously. no offence to you guys and your cars. but everyone seems to be spooling slow and making 8 valve power????
hell my 8valve made 275/250 on 40 psi static fuel (clogged filter) on 20 psi boost....gt30 isnt even happy yet....

you guys should be making 400whp+ around 25psi boost no problems.....

i still rmember cliff sebring 2.5 TIII dyno #s. STOCK cal. 50 trim turbo, 3" exhaust added some race gas to get rid of knock.....290whp and 340tq i believe???

bumped up boost to 17psi (22psi spikes) the car was just shy of 400 whp and had 430tq..........sorry cant tell you what dyno it was ran on. id have too check the cached page since i cant get on TD...

[shackwrrr]

my tIII made about 208 at 13psi, Me and the +40s in my drawer are waiting for a cal and hopefullly it will get alot better. Cant wait for 300+

[Lotashelbys]

My last run on the dyno last year I made 471 WHP at 30-31 PSI. I wanted 500 but I had to drive the car home and didnt want the stock bottom end to come apart lol

[Vigo]

i still rmember cliff sebring 2.5 TIII dyno #s. STOCK cal. 50 trim turbo, 3" exhaust added some race gas to get rid of knock.....290whp and 340tq i believe???


I think you might be thinking of Cliff Ramsdell.


My last run on the dyno last year I made 471 WHP at 30-31 PSI. I wanted 500 but I had to drive the car home and didnt want the stock bottom end to come apart lol

Which car was that on?

[CaptMoe]

whats with all these piisssss pooor TIII dyno #s????

I think they are very sad. seriously. no offence to you guys and your cars. but everyone seems to be spooling slow and making 8 valve power????
hell my 8valve made 275/250 on 40 psi static fuel (clogged filter) on 20 psi boost....gt30 isnt even happy yet....

you guys should be making 400whp+ around 25psi boost no problems.....

i still rmember cliff sebring 2.5 TIII dyno #s. STOCK cal. 50 trim turbo, 3" exhaust added some race gas to get rid of knock.....290whp and 340tq i believe???

bumped up boost to 17psi (22psi spikes) the car was just shy of 400 whp and had 430tq..........sorry cant tell you what dyno it was ran on. id have too check the cached page since i cant get on TD...

I made 256 at 17psi with a 2-bar cal, stock injectors, stock turbo, mildly ported head and 2.5" exhaust.
Will see what gains I get with a Holset and 3" exhaust soon. But staying on the 2-bar cal so won't be boosting too high...

[Lotashelbys]

Which car was that on?
My green R/T. LWP head and cams,HE351,3 bar stuff,direct port meth w/ 4-10GPH nozzels

[86Shelby]

whats with all these piisssss pooor TIII dyno #s????

I think they are very sad. seriously. no offence to you guys and your cars. but everyone seems to be spooling slow and making 8 valve power????

Apparently a 97 whp increase over factory crank hp ratings running 11 psi more boost on a relatively stock longblock is unreasonably low? Oh well. I guess we can't all make mega hp on old stock parts.

The previous dyno has a reputation for reading much lower than the one from this past weekend. The only changes to the car from last time was a 58mm TB, the EWG & downpipe and retensioning the timing belt-I'm sure the cam timing is different than it was before.

[440dart]

I made 299 with 18psi two shot cylinders boost flashed to 25 for a split second it made 335 backed off as soon as i saw the boost go past 20. I ran a 12.7 a 12.5 @113 a 12.1 @ 113 but i popped the headgasket toward the end i figure i would of been in the 11s with 116ish mph "maybe" thats gotta be around 370+whp not bad for just a turbo,intercooler,injectors,alki,cal and two bad cylinders and around 3300lbs with me in it

[forcedfedmopar]

my rt sucks too ray, dont worry about it. mine made less than yours on a slipping clutch.

[Vigo]

Well low 300s doesnt really suck.


The only changes to the car from last time was a 58mm TB, the EWG & downpipe and retensioning the timing belt-I'm sure the cam timing is different than it was before.

So mostly the first dyno was fubar. Sorry that happened to ya. Sounds like your car's in order now. :)

[Turbo3Iroc]

My green R/T. LWP head and cams,HE351,3 bar stuff,direct port meth w/ 4-10GPH nozzels

Did you dyno this car at the setup we ran side by side?

[glhs727]

Well low 300s doesnt really suck.



So mostly the first dyno was fubar. Sorry that happened to ya. Sounds like you're car's in order now. :)

Yes, it sounds like the first dyno guys didn't know what they were doing. That similar set-up on our dyno would put down about 335 whp, and our dyno is considered pretty stingy...
I "think" a bone stock r/t puts down about 195 whp, so about 150 whp over stock sounds decent.

[Shadow]

My last run on the dyno last year I made 471 WHP at 30-31 PSI. I wanted 500 but I had to drive the car home and didnt want the stock bottom end to come apart lol

Man, that's almost exactly where the Charger is with the HE351 right now at that boost level. How much torque were you making and what RPM is your peak HP?

[Pat]

My green R/T. LWP head and cams,HE351,3 bar stuff,direct port meth w/ 4-10GPH nozzels

Is this the one you had at SDAC last year?

[Lotashelbys]

Did you dyno this car at the setup we ran side by side?

Yes but I kept the boost at like 24-25 PSI the whole time out there and it was at 10.0 A/F at WOT with 4-7GPH nozzels


Man, that's almost exactly where the Charger is with the HE351 right now at that boost level. How much torque were you making and what RPM is your peak HP?
I honestly cant remember we did it at my buddies school one night with no print out and my eyes were glued to the wideband and the tach. Im gonna get it on a local Dyno-Jet this year after I get some real rods in it so I can run it up to like 37-38PSI.....


Is this the one you had at SDAC last year?
Ya but less boost and very rich when it was out there. I didnt want the bottom end to come apart out there cause I had to drive it 14 hours home.......