New idea - spare tire cover reproduction

[LaserXT1986]

Hey all,

Tossing around the idea of offering a new product, and wanted to see if there was demand for it.

I am talking about the wooden cover that goes over the spare tire on hathcback models (i.e., G body, P body, etc). Typically this part is usually water-logged, damaged, bent, broken, etc. These are impossible to find in junkyards because usually they suffered the same fate.

I personally was sick of having them not be able to hold the weight of my tools, and after a drive to the yards, seeing my toolbox halfway into the spare tire well, sockets all over the place. Awhile back I made one using 1/4" thick Masonite, which is extremely strong, but it is time consuming to rout. I am looking into several materials which won't warp, won't be thicker than 1/4", and will be able to withstand water, weight, etc. I currently have a perfect G-body one scaled into my systems for CNC routing of a precise piece. I would need masters of any other vehicle in order to reproduce it.

These would not be "show replicas". I.e., no sticker on there showing how to use the jack, etc....no felt on the bottom side. They are to replace damaged ones and be able to withstand much more abuse.

That said, is there any interest before I look into materials and pricing? If so, what would you be willing to honestly pay for such a replacement?

Thanks!

[135sohc]

I made a new one from a piece of plywood (originals are pressed garbage, not wood) and its holding up fine. but that being said its still too thick to 'fit' into the recessed area that the car has original has so its not flush with the sheet metal. and just doesnt really look right

Depending upon materials, maybe $40-50 or so. while I understand you wouldnt sell a complete part or "kit" to make a new one. could you make a new sticker if you got a good template to work from ? there n/a through chrysler. which is kinda odd since there the same basic sticker chrysler used through 2001 on most models.

[BadAssPerformance]

Interesting idea.. the stock ones do suck!

[Turbodave]

I've considered making these before, the stock one in my neon got rotted out and I've since replaced it with a piece of particle board I cut to fit, 3 years on that without any issues. Thinking that somewhere in the $30-$40 price range is what it would take to sell them, maybe closer to $50 if they included a decal and fit nice and flush like a factory cover.

[rich tideswell]

how about just making a paper template to sell and let the customer supply their own material and labor cutting it out?

[LaserXT1986]

I've considered making these before, the stock one in my neon got rotted out and I've since replaced it with a piece of particle board I cut to fit, 3 years on that without any issues. Thinking that somewhere in the $30-$40 price range is what it would take to sell them, maybe closer to $50 if they included a decal and fit nice and flush like a factory cover.

These would be duplicates to the originals as I would re-create them into the design software from scratch and modify them to be dead on to the originals. I didn't expect so much demand for the decal....obviously it is no problem to make one if I have something clean to work from, just didn't think people would want to spend the extra money...seems like I may be wrong tho! :)


how about just making a paper template to sell and let the customer supply their own material and labor cutting it out?

With all due respect, to properly take the measurements, re-create the design in a CNC program from scratch, test cut a piece, modify the design if needed, re-test cut, etc....I'm not about to do all that just so somebody else can have an easy pattern in hand. I'm sure you can respect that, part of the cost would be for my time involved and paper patterns aren't worth the time to make. What I am offering will be exact duplicates (CNC machine finished) in materials that the general public won't have easy access to (i.e., not available at Home Depot or Lowe's), and won't be affected by weight or water like the original ones.

[Lotashelbys]

I have made many of these out of 1/8" aluminum. Just plasma cut it out using the stock template and put the "soft" side of adhesive backed Velcro around the edges so it would rattle. Works wonders:thumb:

[89ShelbyGuy]

If you do decide to make some, make it so theres some peices of wood underneath it so it doesn't slide around

[rich tideswell]

With all due respect, to properly take the measurements, re-create the design in a CNC program from scratch, test cut a piece, modify the design if needed, re-test cut, etc....I'm not about to do all that just so somebody else can have an easy pattern in hand. I'm sure you can respect that, part of the cost would be for my time involved and paper patterns aren't worth the time to make. What I am offering will be exact duplicates (CNC machine finished) in materials that the general public won't have easy access to (i.e., not available at Home Depot or Lowe's), and won't be affected by weight or water like the original ones.

ok, no biggiie, just figured it would be less effort and work on your part to do that as opposed to selling a finished, ready to instal product.

[LaserXT1986]

I have made many of these out of 1/8" aluminum. Just plasma cut it out using the stock template and put the "soft" side of adhesive backed Velcro around the edges so it would rattle. Works wonders:thumb:

Yea but the average person does not have access to a plasma cutter ;)

If I were to do it in aluminum, the cost would be out of reach. If you are talking true .125" plate aluminum (as compared to "sheet metal" in thinner gauges), the cost of the sheet alone would be about $140, and the cutting time would be longer on aluminum than other materials. Figuring I could nest 4 out of a sheet with creative placement, the raw cost of the materials would be $35 each, before I add a single dollar to it for markup, or my time spent cutting, or any profit. It's easy to see how that's not going to work in a $40-50 price point people are talking about on here.

Plus in my personal opinion, plasma cuts are not as clean as cnc router cuts (or even waterjet cuts). The time spent finishing it to look clean, offset the benefits of the faster speed of the cut in my opinion (of course this is based on watching a plasma cutter do HVAC work years ago, maybe times/quality have changed).

Just curious, did you measure/create a CAD file for the plasma cutter?

[badandy]

You have a sale right here for a P body unit!

[JohnnyIroc]

i would buy one
instruction sticker or not
when i got mine the spare tire was put in wrong and the whole cargo area was warped

[Maddog]

Although I don't have an older TD, I do think your idea has merit. Also, the price range so far stated sounds decent, provided your time, materials, and a fair increase for profit will fall within that range.

Just my 2 cents :D

[mcglsr2]

interested in a P-body one...roughly same price as everyone else, though i'd be willing to pay more the lighter in weight the "solution" is.

[chilort]

I ran down to Home Depot and bought a 4X8 sheet of what we call project board. It is about a 1/4" think and dark brown. I took my old drooping cover, put it on top of the project board, threw some 25lb weights on top of it to make it flat, traced the edge with a sharpie, and cut it out with a jig saw. Cost was around $10. And I had plenty of left over project board for other projects.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but ...
1) Why would someone spend 4X as much as what it would cost to it themselves?
2) Shipping on such an oddly shaped item is going to be terrible.
3) Mine isn't the right color and doesn't have stickers, but it sits under carpet, I never see it, and really don't care that much.

[JohnnyIroc]

I ran down to Home Depot and bought a 4X8 sheet of what we call project board. It is about a 1/4" think and dark brown. I took my old drooping cover, put it on top of the project board, threw some 25lb weights on top of it to make it flat, traced the edge with a sharpie, and cut it out with a jig saw. Cost was around $10. And I had plenty of left over project board for other projects.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but ...
1) Why would someone spend 4X as much as what it would cost to it themselves?
2) Shipping on such an oddly shaped item is going to be terrible.
3) Mine isn't the right color and doesn't have stickers, but it sits under carpet, I never see it, and really don't care that much.

very nice idea
how well does it hold?
i will probably just do this sometime soon

[chilort]

The biggest problem that I have is that the project board material has essentially the same composite properties of the original spare tire cover. In short, when you get it wet, it bows and wants to come apart. I know this because I still haven't fixed all of the leaks in the back of my Daytona. It is also going to bow over time and under considerable weight just like the old board.

[JohnnyIroc]

well i can get a better quality wood or any kind of material

[LaserXT1986]

I ran down to Home Depot and bought a 4X8 sheet of what we call project board. It is about a 1/4" think and dark brown. I took my old drooping cover, put it on top of the project board, threw some 25lb weights on top of it to make it flat, traced the edge with a sharpie, and cut it out with a jig saw. Cost was around $10. And I had plenty of left over project board for other projects.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but ...
1) Why would someone spend 4X as much as what it would cost to it themselves?
2) Shipping on such an oddly shaped item is going to be terrible.
3) Mine isn't the right color and doesn't have stickers, but it sits under carpet, I never see it, and really don't care that much.

1.) Because not everyone is as steady with a jigsaw as you may be, nor may they have one.
2.) If the demand was great enough, I would have custom sized boxes made to make the shipping as minimal as possible (example: a G body one would fit into a 30" x 30" x 1" box....UPS Ground from my plant to California as an example, which is coast to coast, would be a little less than $20...and that's the extreme distance cost...closer locations would be less). I am curious what experience you have shipping odd items, as I have been doing it for over 20 years.
3.) That's great that you don't care, but at the same time, there are others that may.


The biggest problem that I have is that the project board material has essentially the same composite properties of the original spare tire cover. In short, when you get it wet, it bows and wants to come apart. I know this because I still haven't fixed all of the leaks in the back of my Daytona. It is also going to bow over time and under considerable weight just like the old board.

And this is amazing...you boast and brag about how you can do it yourself for $10.....yet, essentially you made yourself the same piece of sh!t that you replaced. So, you spent $10....and it gets ruined when wet, and cannot withstand weight. What exactly did you save then doing it yourself with cheap materials?

The ones I am proposing would not be nearly as affected by water (some materials I am looking at are impervious to moisture altogether), and I am only looking to make a unit that can withstand at least 30 pounds of weight (i.e., a heavy toolbox).

Maybe I am crazy, but it seems to me if I could make one that could be sold for around $50, is an accurate CNC machined duplicate (not a "hand cut tracing") and wouldn't be affected by moisture, nor weight, it would be worth it.

Of course, being the manufacturer, I think I am biased :p

[LaserXT1986]

Although I don't have an older TD, I do think your idea has merit. Also, the price range so far stated sounds decent, provided your time, materials, and a fair increase for profit will fall within that range.

Just my 2 cents :D

Thanks Maddog! I am not looking to get rich on these by any means, but rather, offer a permanent fix to a problem these cars had, using materials not available in the hardware stores.

Truthfully, the one suggestion of 1/8" aluminum was GREAT, but the cost of the material itself makes it prohibitive for doing these within that price range. :(

[chilort]

Whoa, let's not jump off the deep end here.

I wasn't boasting or bragging. If I were to do that, I would tell you I made one out of project board, and it is stiffer than carbon fiber, impervious to nuclear weapons, gives BJs in its free time, and still has time to sit in the trunk of my car. I was trying to be brutally honest about what I did and the results I've had. That piece of project board isn't perfect but I've sat my fat rear end on it while trying to find leaks in the trunk of my Daytona and it didn't break. I keep a tool box, two amps, and a sub in the trunk of my car, plus some random crap (currently a Neon shifter and a piece of 2.5" reinforced hose) without too much of a problem. There clearly are better alternatives than project board. But once I've found all the leaks, I'll make another from the project board I have left... if I haven't used it for other projects.

I almost didn't post anything at all because people get married to their ideas. In a former career I was an engineer in a validation laboratory that got to tell people all the time their products failed so you'd think I knew by now that people didn't take kindly to that news. But you were looking for feedback, so I thought you'd like to hear mine even though it wasn't what you wanted to hear. But let's face it. I can run down to Home Depot and buy a jig saw for $30 and a 4X8 sheet of project board for $10. Sharpies are a couple of bucks for a 3 pack and sand paper (for fine tuning of the fit) is about the same. With tax I'm running less than what you are proposing with shipping and at the end of the day I've got a jig saw, 2.99 sharpies, some left over sand paper and project board I can use for other projects.

Many turbo Dodge owners are unwilling to pay for CNC'd heads, much less something they can make with less than an hour of free time.

Not everyone likes to do projects themselves. Most of those people don't own old Dodges. Sounds like a good article for the knowledge center: not a product.

$0.02

[LaserXT1986]

Whoa, let's not jump off the deep end here.

LOL I wasn't??:confused2:


I wasn't boasting or bragging. If I were to do that, I would tell you I made one out of project board, and it is stiffer than carbon fiber, impervious to nuclear weapons, gives BJs in its free time, and still has time to sit in the trunk of my car.

That's not bragging, that's misleading. When someone starts there post by saying "I can do it for $10" then says why would someone pay 4x as much, and then incorrectly states shipping would be terrible, I took that as bragging that you had a better solution (even though you later posted the stuff will essentially have the same failure rate as the original). If you weren't, then I apologize.


I was trying to be brutally honest about what I did and the results I've had. That piece of project board isn't perfect but I've sat my fat rear end on it while trying to find leaks in the trunk of my Daytona and it didn't break. I keep a tool box, two amps, and a sub in the trunk of my car, plus some random crap (currently a Neon shifter and a piece of 2.5" reinforced hose) without too much of a problem. There clearly are better alternatives than project board. But once I've found all the leaks, I'll make another from the project board I have left... if I haven't used it for other projects.

That's fine that it may work for you, again, not everyone wants to do it themselves, nor has the desire.


I almost didn't post anything at all because people get married to their ideas. In a former career I was an engineer in a validation laboratory that got to tell people all the time their products failed so you'd think I knew by now that people didn't take kindly to that news.

I never said I didn't take kindly to the news. I didn't take kindly to what you presented as facts that I feel were not accurate:

1.) you stated you can do it for $10 as an alternative, yet you also state as soon as it gets wet it will have the same issue as the original....so how does that compare with what I was offering?
2.) you stated shipping would be terrible, which it wouldn't.

Trust me I have been in business over 20 years and now own the business that is 45 years old...we didnt get there by making products that fail. And I would never sell something that has the potential to fail as the original did, at an inflated price.


But you were looking for feedback, so I thought you'd like to hear mine even though it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I don't mind feedback, but as I stated above when the facts are not presented accurately I like to set the record straight.


But let's face it. I can run down to Home Depot and buy a jig saw for $30 and a 4X8 sheet of project board for $10. Sharpies are a couple of bucks for a 3 pack and sand paper (for fine tuning of the fit) is about the same. With tax I'm running less than what you are proposing with shipping and at the end of the day I've got a jig saw, 2.99 sharpies, some left over sand paper and project board I can use for other projects.

Ok let's think about this. How many people can fit a 4' x 8' in their car? Not many. So you have to have it cut, sometimes more than once (I believe at Home Depot the first cut is free, others cost money). So right off the bat you have that dilemma.

Then, we have the other dilemma.....you will have a product that is no better than the original, by your own definition of what happens when it gets wet. So again, what did you save? You spend close to the same amount as what I project mine will cost, and after a few good leaks it isn't worth a sh!t. I am curious to know how is this better solution? Maybe I am just crazy but I have better things to do than re-doing the same thing twice or more. And since ALL of the hatchback cars leak, and it's a problem not easily resolved with seals being NS1, I see the water issue a big problem that needs to be overcome. So when you spend all the time and money to do it your way and it rains or snows and moisture gets in, you are back at square one. I honestly fail to see the comparison of how this is a good way?

As a second example, using your logic, I can take a good picture of the underhood decal off of a Shelby, print it on some decal stock for $2 that I can buy at Staples (with *extra* to do other projects), and cover it with clear packing tape for protection, trim, stick it under the hood and call it a day. Do you really think that is as good as the guy selling perfect replica repro'd ones in the for sale section? I mean after all, he's selling them for 6-7x the amount of what it would cost me to do it!


Many turbo Dodge owners are unwilling to pay for CNC'd heads, much less something they can make with less than an hour of free time.

So let's see....you spend $40-$45 to do it yourself, and then when it gets wet you have to do it all over again? How many people do you think want to do that?


Not everyone likes to do projects themselves. Most of those people don't own old Dodges. Sounds like a good article for the knowledge center: not a product.

$0.02

A good article for the knowledge center. Hmm. Ok, great idea. Here is what I will put:

Step 1: Find a material that is impervious to water, is approx. 3/16" thick, and can withstand weight of 30 pounds or more (btw, good luck finding that in a Home Depot).

Step 2: Buy a design software that allows you to manipulate vector based files, and create one from scratch using Bezier lines and curves.

Step 3: Buy a $50,000-$100,000 cnc machine. Or find someone that has one and hope they are charging the minimum $90 per hour rate (or as high as double that depending on where you go).

Step 4: Test cut, check fit, modify file as needed, re-cut.

Obviously, the way I am proposing is not something for the knowledge center as few have the equipment I have nor the knowhow to operate the machinery I am using.

So then, we can also do it your way:

Step 1: Buy $10 material from home depot and a $30 jigsaw, spare blades , sharpie pens, and sandpaper.

Step 2: Trace image onto material.

Step 3: Try to cut out shape as close as possible, including a perfect circle for the screw cap in the middle.

Step 4: Place in car until it rains, after it gets wet, repeat steps 1-3.

Cmon...

If you had at least suggest a material that was impervious to water, and could withstand weight, and fit properly with no issues at all (such as LotaShelbys did with his 1/8" aluminum post) I would have no problem with what you are suggesting. But when you suggest something inferior as a solution, then it's no different than my decal comparison above.

If you do not wish to have one, that is fine. If *everyone* does not wish to have one, that is fine, too, it's no skin off my back, this is something I am offering on the side as a solution to a problem, not something I am hoping will put bread on my table with.

I'm all for suggestions and input, but something along the lines of a solution that *solves* the problem, not *re-creates* it. You mentioned "I got to tell people all the time their products failed so you'd think I knew by now that people didn't take kindly to that news". So, I am curious, how do you feel when you are knowingly offering a solution that will inevitably fail?

[badandy]

Enough B.S. already...sheesh!

It's a great idea and one that I proposed to Omnipotent sometime ago now. People will buy these simply because they don't want to source materials and buy the equipment neccessary to complete the job.

My suggestion is go for it and tell me how much when you are done and I'll be your first customer if you make one for a P-Body.

For anyone else that can/wants to do it cheaper...good for you! go for it! but don't shoot the man down for wanting to offer a currently unavailable product that will be superior to the original...and don't ruin it for the rest of us...namely me!

[Diamondback_Ram]

Wow, why all the hostility? Chilort wasn't bashing you or shooting down you idea, he just provided an alternate view. There's no reason to get so defensive. He has a point, a lot of people are cheap. I think his Home Depot idea has merit as a path for people short on cash or with more time than money, but that's just my opinion, not a knock on you or your idea.

That said, I personally think you have a great idea. While my original cover is in fine shape and I have never had a leaky hatch, I'd be in line to buy one of yours, just because it is more robust and I don't have to worry about breaking the lousy original. Not to mention, it would look much better than the original... yes, it is rare that anyone would see it, but I still know the ugly pressed board is under there. :lol:

[johnl]

Good idea.

As we see from the discussion, some folks want material that is a "correct" replacement, but that means it would be made of the same poor engineering choice of material while others are more concerned about correctly engineered/function.

Is the "project board" the same as Masonite? Anyone with a jig saw can make one out of whatever they want. Some Masonites have a water resistant coating on BOTH sides . . . .

[LaserXT1986]

Enough B.S. already...sheesh!

It's a great idea and one that I proposed to Omnipotent sometime ago now. People will buy these simply because they don't want to source materials and buy the equipment neccessary to complete the job.

Thank you, this is the point I was trying to make all along. I am glad someone got it ;)


My suggestion is go for it and tell me how much when you are done and I'll be your first customer if you make one for a P-Body.

Well since I don't have a master one for a P body to go by yet, if I got one from you to go by, I'd prolly give you yours for free for donating a used one for me to copy ;)


For anyone else that can/wants to do it cheaper...good for you! go for it! but don't shoot the man down for wanting to offer a currently unavailable product that will be superior to the original...and don't ruin it for the rest of us...namely me!

I don't mind if someone can do it themselves (I actually give great credit to lotsashelbys for his -- 1/8" aluminum is a VERY good choice...just not something I can do within the expected price range). My issue is when someone says they have a better and cheaper way, and all it is, is a duplicate of the original -- flaws, problems, and all. To compare that to what I am offering is a slap, that was my gripe.


Wow, why all the hostility? Chilort wasn't bashing you or shooting down you idea, he just provided an alternate view. There's no reason to get so defensive. He has a point, a lot of people are cheap. I think his Home Depot idea has merit as a path for people short on cash or with more time than money, but that's just my opinion, not a knock on you or your idea.

That said, I personally think you have a great idea. While my original cover is in fine shape and I have never had a leaky hatch, I'd be in line to buy one of yours, just because it is more robust and I don't have to worry about breaking the lousy original. Not to mention, it would look much better than the original... yes, it is rare that anyone would see it, but I still know the ugly pressed board is under there. :lol:

He may not have appeared to be bashing, but when someone tells me that they can do it for $10 and goes to great lengths to prove it, and then says this is an idea for the Knowledge Center not a product, I consider it bashing. Lotsashelbys offered his 2 cents about an aluminum one....a *great* idea, if the cost wasn't so prohibitive. That's the difference, one offered an idea that is superior to the factory original, while not trying to make me look like a crook, while the other had nothing but crap for an idea (his own words admitted it will fall apart when it gets wet), and 2x insisted I was out of left field charging $50 when he claimed to do it for $10.

And as I already outlined, I have no issue if someone wants to go the Home Depot path....but in the end you'll have something that is no better than what you started with, and won't be that much different in price from a superior one. Keep it in perspective...Home Depot may be an alternative, but certainly not a good one in the long run when factoring all things in. Anyone who really knows me and how much I have done for this community going back to the days of SDML when Dennis was in charge, knows I am not out to do anything but offer great products at a fair price. I get a little annoyed when someone A.) claims it can be done cheaper (yet the end result is nothing like what I am offering -- let's compare apples to apples) and B.) claims to apparently know that TM people don't want to buy these.

[JohnnyIroc]

your taking this way out of hand
what people want they will get
if someone wants something different and stronger they will go with your idea and order one
if they want something cheep that will last another 12 years and don't mind doing the work themselves they will go to home depot

[LaserXT1986]

your taking this way out of hand
what people want they will get
if someone wants something different and stronger they will go with your idea and order one
if they want something cheep that will last another 12 years and don't mind doing the work themselves they will go to home depot

John,

I am not taking it out of hand. It's a simple matter of comparing apples to oranges. I personally have an issue when someone tells me a $10 rotten apple is as good as a $40 fresh tree picked orange and that no one wants a fresh orange because it's 4x more.

Personally at this point, I think I'll just forget the whole idea. My original desire was to bring something *useful* to TM to *help* the community. It seems like it's more aggravation than it's worth when I have to debate people over crap versus quality. I have better things to do than sit here wasting time arguing over a product that I would be making very little profit on, just to offer a nice product to the community.

Since people think DIY is the way to go, perhaps you're right John, and perhaps Chilort is right too. So rather than waste anymore time trying to offer a superior product only to get burned (as many vendors have done in the past, sadly), I'll just let people continue to be cheap and let them rely on doing it themselves.

[ol"blue]

Except for the few people that have show cars and are worried about losing points for having a non-original part, I think a lot of people will buy your product if and when it comes to fruition. I'm into L-bodies, and not concerned with originality. I used a rear hatch seal from a Jeep ZJ as a replacement seal for an Omni. Works great, looks close enough for me and stopped the leaks 100%! I don't suppose you have any thoughts of offering the cover for an L-body do you?

[DC Turismo]

Along with those door info stickers Dave, I'd be interested in this with the repro sticker for my 89 CSX. It is a great idea, and if you are in need of something like this as some of us are, then you'll pay what it costs. If you don't want to pay what it costs, then apparently you aren't as gunho to get it so don't bash when someone is trying to bring something unique to the community to help us.

[neongary]

1.) Because not everyone is as steady with a jigsaw as you may be, nor may they have one.
2.) If the demand was great enough, I would have custom sized boxes made to make the shipping as minimal as possible (example: a G body one would fit into a 30" x 30" x 1" box....UPS Ground from my plant to California as an example, which is coast to coast, would be a little less than $20...and that's the extreme distance cost...closer locations would be less). I am curious what experience you have shipping odd items, as I have been doing it for over 20 years.
3.) That's great that you don't care, but at the same time, there are others that may.



And this is amazing...you boast and brag about how you can do it yourself for $10.....yet, essentially you made yourself the same piece of sh!t that you replaced. So, you spent $10....and it gets ruined when wet, and cannot withstand weight. What exactly did you save then doing it yourself with cheap materials?

The ones I am proposing would not be nearly as affected by water (some materials I am looking at are impervious to moisture altogether), and I am only looking to make a unit that can withstand at least 30 pounds of weight (i.e., a heavy toolbox).

Maybe I am crazy, but it seems to me if I could make one that could be sold for around $50, is an accurate CNC machined duplicate (not a "hand cut tracing") and wouldn't be affected by moisture, nor weight, it would be worth it.

Of course, being the manufacturer, I think I am biased :p

I think it's a good idea. If my convertible had one, I'd get it.
Not many people are making any sort of reproduction parts for "our" cars, so it blows my mind when people feel a need to put down your ideas. If I had the capability, I'd get a few repro parts out there in the system that I see a need for. On another thread someone is talking about making up some TII radiators, another part no longer available new.:thumb:

[chilort]

I don't have a single problem with people making things and selling them to this market. I invite it but clearly my goals are different.

What we could really use, and this thread points it out very well, are window and door seals. That's something none of us can make with a jig saw and 10 bucks in parts from Home Depot. If someone starts repopping TII radiators, I'd be all for that too.

Having a nice spare tire cover, whether you pay $10 to do it yourself or $40 plus shipping isn't going to matter much if you never fix the hatch leaks. The spare tire falling out of the bottom of the car through the rust is likely going to become suddenly more important. ... but at least you'll have a solid surface on which to place your tools.

I can see the need for good reproduction stickers too for the the resto crowd. I'm restoring a 70 Superbee. When I had the gauge cluster and wood grain refinished I sent them to the 1 guy that, at the time, had the capability to paint the gauge faces properly and faithfully reproduce the wood grain rather than using stickers for the gauge faces and 3M peel-and-stick wood grain. When you must have the exact proper look, only one thing will do, and that is the exact proper look. But I think it is kind of funny that you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You are unwilling to accept a sticker that isn't an exact replica (and I wouldn't either) but are willing to accept a spare tire cover that isn't made out of the original material.

By the way, A friend of mine, after hearing about this hullabaloo said I can use some of his leftover fiberglass resin to paint my spare tire cover in so that it will be water tight. Not everyone has that free resource available to them, but you can buy a quart at AutoZone for $15.

[DC Turismo]

What we could really use, and this thread points it out very well, are window and door seals.

That is a lot easier said than done. Prices for doing test molds are ridiculous, plus a certain amount needs ordered (1200 for example) which in most cases that many will never be sold. Not only this, but many of the rubber materials companies want to use for those parts are cheap, as I've talked with a number of vendors who are seeking material made in the U.S.A. because of its quality.

This thread is not about that though, as it's a whole other discussion in itself and it has been looked into time and time again. Basically, no one wants to front the money for that either, nor is there a huge enough demand (maybe 150 sets out of 1200).

Just my $.02, again, I'm for the spare tire well and since it was cardboard type material, I wouldn't be one to go to autozone and get a piece of plywood. To me that's chinsy, and if you're restoring a car do it right, as close to how things came to begin with even if its not exact! :amen:

[LaserXT1986]

By the way, A friend of mine, after hearing about this hullabaloo said I can use some of his leftover fiberglass resin to paint my spare tire cover in so that it will be water tight. Not everyone has that free resource available to them, but you can buy a quart at AutoZone for $15.

Well since you just don't give up with your "let's make it out of sh!t and call it a Picasso" rant, you can officially be recognized as the reason it isn't worth me looking into doing this anymore. It's people like you that cause vendors to NOT want to come up with good ideas and good products to the market. It's always about "I can make it cheaper with a piece of sh!t". So be it.

To everyone that wanted these, I am sorry....it's not worth the time to deal with this nonsense when trying to offer something. I personally suggest contacting Chilort to have them made, he seems to be the resident expert, so contact him if you want one.

Sadly, it's bullsh!t like this that will keep me from even thinking of new products. I have 2 cnc routers, access to about 100 different materials, extensive knowledge of those materials and suggested applications, 2 large format digital printers, engravers, a spray booth with a $20,000 mixing machine. There are so many products I could reproduce, but it's sh!t like this that makes it not worth the effort. And I have seen this happen with other vendors too....LRE racing ring a bell?

So to those that were interested, I am sorry....the few bad ruin it for the majority good. But just contact Chilort, he has the expertise to be able to do it for $10 for you:thumb:


Just my $.02, again, I'm for the spare tire well and since it was cardboard type material, I wouldn't be one to go to autozone and get a piece of plywood. To me that's chinsy, and if you're restoring a car do it right, as close to how things came to begin with even if its not exact! :amen:

Thanks for the support Billy, it is appreciated. Sadly, dealing with this crap makes me debate if I even want to get into the door decals in the other thread. I have better things to do than offer products that make me little money (which I am NOT in it for, anyone who knows me, knows this), and then need to deal with people who just won't let up putting down ideas. I have better things to do with my time. The sad thing is, it's the community that loses out because of this sh!t (and as already said, this kind of crap cost this community a great number of vendors....anyone remember Relentless Performance?)

[chilort]

Well since you just don't give up with your "let's make it out of sh!t and call it a Picasso" rant, you can officially be recognized as the reason it isn't worth me looking into doing this anymore. It's people like you that cause vendors to NOT want to come up with good ideas and good products to the market. It's always about "I can make it cheaper with a piece of sh!t". So be it.

To everyone that wanted these, I am sorry....it's not worth the time to deal with this nonsense when trying to offer something. I personally suggest contacting Chilort to have them made, he seems to be the resident expert, so contact him if you want one.

Sadly, it's bullsh!t like this that will keep me from even thinking of new products. I have 2 cnc routers, access to about 100 different materials, extensive knowledge of those materials and suggested applications, 2 large format digital printers, engravers, a spray booth with a $20,000 mixing machine. There are so many products I could reproduce, but it's sh!t like this that makes it not worth the effort. And I have seen this happen with other vendors too....LRE racing ring a bell?

So to those that were interested, I am sorry....the few bad ruin it for the majority good. But just contact Chilort, he has the expertise to be able to do it for $10 for you:thumb:



Thanks for the support Billy, it is appreciated. Sadly, dealing with this crap makes me debate if I even want to get into the door decals in the other thread. I have better things to do than offer products that make me little money (which I am NOT in it for, anyone who knows me, knows this), and then need to deal with people who just won't let up putting down ideas. I have better things to do with my time. The sad thing is, it's the community that loses out because of this sh!t (and as already said, this kind of crap cost this community a great number of vendors....anyone remember Relentless Performance?)

You sound like a 5 year old. "I'm mad now so I'm going to take my toys and go somewhere else, naaaah." Are you really serious? How have you stayed in any kind of business if you cannot take criticism?

I have actually had PMs about getting more details on the material already. And I was happy to provide it: Eucaboard.

If you're so confident that you're so good and your products are so good then why let one person keep you from making products?

[LaserXT1986]

You sound like a 5 year old. "I'm mad now so I'm going to take my toys and go somewhere else, naaaah." Are you really serious? How have you stayed in any kind of business if you cannot take criticism?

I have actually had PMs about getting more details on the material already. And I was happy to provide it: Eucaboard.

If you're so confident that you're so good and your products are so good then why let one person keep you from making products?

I can take criticism with the quality of my work. I can take criticism with the price of my work. But as I said, it comes down to comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

I deal with professionals that don't nickle and dime me to death. What I offer here is nothing of what my actual business is. The decals and vinyl products I sell in my real business, represent about 2% of my actual business' sales. We are a worldwide provider of dimensional displays and corporate logo reproduction signage (see attached pictures). But when I quote dimensional letters for someone's lobby, I don't have them say that their kid can make letters at home on his band saw and roller coat them for 1/4 the price. People know what they are getting from me, they come to me because they demand the best which is what I supply.

Decals are pretty much an accommodation in my real business, yet that being said I have some of the most sophisticated technology. And be that as it may, I use that technology to give back to this community.

What I offer here primarily are decals. Anyone that bought one from me knows how much profit I made -- next to none. Billy from Steel City can attest to this, Chris Wright from TU, Frank from TM, Barry from SDAC, etc., etc. I offer my services in reproduction decals as a give back to the community. I do NOT make much money on it...it isn't about the money. I dont know how to do cals, modify heads, etc. So this is where I give back. And believe me, I have given PLENTY to this community since 1997 when I joined SDML. And made very little profit from it.

Back to the point, why let one person keep me? Cause I have better things to do than descend flights of stairs to meet you at your level. I own a business, that takes plenty of my free time. I have a wife. I have better things to do, then to try to offer a superior product to the community, that will take up considerable time with VERY LITTLE PROFIT (again, I am not doing this for the money, I'm doing it for the good of the community), only to get someone saying "why waste time, my way is 1/4 cheaper, etc". It's not worth my time having to deal with such petty cheap a$$ bullsh!t.

Do you REALLY think I need to make these spare covers to stay alive? Do you REALLY think I need to sell decals to the people on here to keep afloat? Do you REALLY think I am a vendor on here because this is where I try to make money? You are sorely mistaken. Again, with such a little profit margin (done on purpose, as a courtesy to the community), it is NOT worth the time to deal with people like yourself that want to get into a pissing match about how you can re-invent the wheel cheaper. What I sell is quality. I won't offer anything less. And when someone wants to constantly brag about how they can spit shine a turd, it's not worth wasting my time.

[Diamondback_Ram]

Relax and take a breath. It's an internet forum, don't take it so seriously. One person had an alternate solution and somehow it got personal. I'm sure that was not Chilort's intent.

If you really want to help out your fellow Mopar fans, then don't let a disagreement with one guy stop that. Like I said, it's just an internet forum, don't let it get your dander up. Regardless, why don't we just just agree to disagree and go on with the topic? There are plenty of people out there that are interested in your suggestion. If others want to make their own at home out of what you consider to be an inferior method, who cares? It's their car to do with as they see fit. If it works, great; if they have to make another because their hatch leaked, then it was their time to waste.

[moparfwdsleeper]

Is it just mine(AA Body) or are the AA ones more depenable? I know the ones in P bodies SUCK, atleast that is the case in the ones i've owned.

[turbojerk]

3/16" fiberglass sheet is the way to go!

[badandy]

Honestly, for my needs...I think cutting the spare tire well out completely and welding in a floor is the way to go but I don't have the heart to hack up a CSX-T.

I guess I'll just have to make my own...

[BadAssPerformance]

It has been a while since I looked at this thread and all I can say are DAMN and WTF? OK...

For those interested in a nice reproduction cover, it sounds like our vendor, LaserXT1986 has your answer :thumb: If he still decides to make them after this mixed feedback?

For those of you making your own cover for yourelf out of plywood, this thread really doesnt apply to you and I applaud you for your DIY efforts :clap:

If anyone here plans to make any of them to sell here, great, we can use more Vendors :thumb: click this link to sign up:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/payments.php

[contraption22]

I suggest mimetic poly alloy that can shape shift from a small, easy to ship cube, to a flat spare tire cover, or a Hans Hermann cylinder head.

[turbojerk]

I suggest mimetic poly alloy that can shape shift from a small, easy to ship cube, to a flat spare tire cover, or a Hans Hermann cylinder head.

I'd buy that!:nod:

[ScottD]

Dave I think this is a good idea. Having made one of these myself it is doable but a pain in the butt. If I could buy something nice already done for a reasonable price I'd be all over it.

[GLHSKEN]

^^^^ +2,3,4,AND 5 (2 L bodies and 2 G bodies in need....)

[Ondonti]

Do the P bodies have a metal brace on the cover like the AA's do?
My P body never came with a cover since it had a motor in the spare tire well.

[gkcooper]

I took my almost flat original board and braced with 5/8" aluminum "L" channel. I put stainless steel hardware with washers and made an "X". It will hold up a tool box now.

[chilort]

I took my almost flat original board and braced with 5/8" aluminum "L" channel. I put stainless steel hardware with washers and made an "X". It will hold up a tool box now.

Whoah, be careful now. This thread is clearly not about what YOU could do to make the original workable.......

:lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

Do the P bodies have a metal brace on the cover like the AA's do?
My P body never came with a cover since it had a motor in the spare tire well.

I know the early p-bodies did not, maybe later ones? This would be good info for Dave to find out about the differences if he decided to make them.


I took my almost flat original board and braced with 5/8" aluminum "L" channel. I put stainless steel hardware with washers and made an "X". It will hold up a tool box now.

Good advise for those looking to support a tool box. :thumb:


Whoah, be careful now. This thread is clearly not about what YOU could do to make the original workable.......

:lol:

After all th BS above, the smartass comment is not needed, please do not post in this thread again unless it is constructive. Thank you.

[Turbodave]

The only ones I've seen with a metal brace under them are the AA body cars. All the P-bodies I've owned just had the plain old rotten board in the trunk.

[135sohc]

I know the early p-bodies did not, maybe later ones? This would be good info for Dave to find out about the differences if he decided to make them.


Mine is/was all pressed fiberboard construction. very late 94 model year

[Turbodave]

Mine is/was all pressed fiberboard construction. very late 94 model year

I've owned every year but 92 and 94 P-body and seen the same.

[135sohc]

Some aluminum or carbon fiber honeycomb would make a nice cover :eyebrows:

[LaserXT1986]

Whoah, be careful now. This thread is clearly not about what YOU could do to make the original workable.......

:lol:


After all th BS above, the smartass comment is not needed, please do not post in this thread again unless it is constructive. Thank you.


JT, Ken, and the others that were interested,

I am sorry but I won't be moving forward with this. It's not worth having to deal with people who insist on making this kind of consistent drama in a VENDOR section.

JT, I thank you for stepping in as a mod on 2 occasions, but as you can see people will just be ignorant, and I don't have time for that. As I made very clear, I would be doing these for so little profit, just to give back to the TM community, that it isn't worth doing if I have to deal with this nonsense.

For those that were interested, I suggest taking Chilort at his word. I suggest:

1.) Pushing him to spend the money to become a vendor.
2.) Pushing him to make these for $10 each

I would hold him to his word about making them for that price, if you are interested in having these done. I wish him luck in making these in quantity at $10 each.

For those that were truly interested, I am sincerely sorry to let you down, but I won't be putting anymore effort into making this particular item a reality.

In closing I would hope this thread, and the end result, teaches the community about respecting the VERY few vendors we have that are willing to make reproduction items for such a small group, and such a small profit. Many vendors have abandoned this group for the most part (FM) or totally (Relentless, LRE) and it is due to not wanting to deal with the crap I have in this thread. If you want products made for your cars, I would suggest being more considerate of words used against those who are trying to do you a favor. Opinions are fine as I have stated here many times (including LotsAshelby's idea and even Turbojerk had a good suggestion for material). Bashing a vendor's price point, and consistently trying to railroad them by offering cheaper (not better) ways to do it, in my opinion, is a good way from keeping this, as well as many other items made.

Think about it. ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Sorry to hear you're not planning to make them. Since LaserXT1986 is out, I would also like to retract my comment about "constructive posts" above, if anyone else wants to make them, please step up. :thumb:

[chilort]

I took my almost flat original board and braced with 5/8" aluminum "L" channel. I put stainless steel hardware with washers and made an "X". It will hold up a tool box now.

Contrary to the sentiment of my original statement, this could be an inconspicuous design depending on the attachment method. A person that wanted to keep an original cover or one made of the original style material could potentially use this with great success. Good thinking. :thumb:

Since there may be no vendor for this product, maybe this topic could be edited and moved to another section. I believe it contains great information about what some individuals have done.

[mcglsr2]

okay, so i have an opinion here, LaserXT, and since it's the internet, i get to post it. i'm not taking sides. i don't know either of you. i think you have a great idea. i am/was interested in buying one. i said so on Post #14. did chilort bash you a little? maybe yes, maybe no - probably a little out of line. but having said that, let me state that i mean no offense, and i am not bashing anyone. this is my unbiased opion of the situation (and i hope you will hear me out and reconsider). you are more then welcome to disagree with anything i say:


JT, Ken, and the others that were interested,

I am sorry but I won't be moving forward with this. It's not worth having to deal with people who insist on making this kind of consistent drama in a VENDOR section.

i wish you would reconsider. this is a great idea, good for the community as a whole (that does NOT mean good for the entire community, chilort being one of those folks not interested. me being one of those folks that is.


...but as you can see people will just be ignorant, and I don't have time for that. As I made very clear, I would be doing these for so little profit, just to give back to the TM community, that it isn't worth doing if I have to deal with this nonsense.
as you've said, you've been in business a long time. there are always going to people that don't like your idea or want to do it another way. you had to have seen that before. and that's okay, that's fine, so be it. i'm sure Cindy at FWDP and Chris at TU have more then their share of difficult customers. granted, they make more of a profit then what you are describing, so are entitled to suffer more. but the whole point is to make great products for the community as a whole. not every TDer buys parts from FWDP. or from TU. the reality is that you DON'T have to deal with any nonsense. if you don't like what chilort has to say, then ignore him. make your product. some of us will buy it. some of us will build our own. and that's okay.


For those that were interested, I suggest taking Chilort at his word. I suggest:

1.) Pushing him to spend the money to become a vendor.
2.) Pushing him to make these for $10 each

I would hold him to his word about making them for that price, if you are interested in having these done. I wish him luck in making these in quantity at $10 each.
it was your idea to make this. chilort was describing a different way to handle this problem. is it better? is it worse? does it matter? what matters is YOUR idea. and that there ARE people interested in it.


For those that were truly interested, I am sincerely sorry to let you down, but I won't be putting anymore effort into making this particular item a reality.
don't be sorry - if this is something you really wanted to do in the first place, then do it! make a difference! i will give you the money right now for one. and you will have made 1 TD'ers experience here better. isn't that what it's about?


In closing I would hope this thread, and the end result, teaches the community about respecting the VERY few vendors we have that are willing to make reproduction items for such a small group, and such a small profit. Many vendors have abandoned this group for the most part (FM) or totally (Relentless, LRE) and it is due to not wanting to deal with the crap I have in this thread. If you want products made for your cars, I would suggest being more considerate of words used against those who are trying to do you a favor. Opinions are fine as I have stated here many times (including LotsAshelby's idea and even Turbojerk had a good suggestion for material). Bashing a vendor's price point, and consistently trying to railroad them by offering cheaper (not better) ways to do it, in my opinion, is a good way from keeping this, as well as many other items made.
and lastly, you gotta understand that nobody has learned anything here. we, as a community, can't control if someone wants to do something their own way. that's the nature of the beast, and actually what makes our community so cool - the diversity. NO vendor is ever going to make a product that EVERYONE wants (unless it's made out of pure gold and is free). so don't let that stand in the way of YOU making a great product for some folks. because i will tell you now, if a new vendor tries to sell something tomorrow, there WILL be some people that don't like the idea, want to do it different, question it, or whatever. so what. if it's a good product (which yours is), there WILL be people that appreciate it and want to buy it (like i do yours). so you can't let that get to you.

personally, i don't think chilorts comments where that bad. was he bashing you? sure. does that mean your product sucks? absolutely not. just ignore it. then chilort doesn't buy one from you. don't assume everyone agrees with his view of the situation. can chilort go make something different/cheaper? sure, if he wants to. but *I* don't want to. and there are others that don't either. don't punish us by taking away a good idea because 1 person says some stuff you don't like. that's not cool.

and in the end, i'll still buy that cover from you. :D and if you still don't want to make it, then okay. it's your call :)