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View Full Version : Found why my diff was clunky! Now with pics, :O)



turbovanmanČ
04-11-2006, 06:49 PM
I found my noise in my diff today, it wasn't the insert but a spider gear broke, doh! I don't know how but it was quiet up until last night, when a guy pissed me off so I gunned it to go around him and it started clunking again. Will post pics tomorrow, :eyebrows:

guyd_15
04-11-2006, 06:53 PM
Is this what I have to look forward to with my wife's Mini? Oh joy!
Guy

turbovanmanČ
04-11-2006, 08:01 PM
Its fubuared badly. Looks like the spider gears tried to weld themselves to the shaft, then the force broke them. The case is done, the side gears ground themselves into the AB insert so the insert is now junk and the side gears washers welded themselves to the gears. What a f*cking mess. I never had this trouble doing burnouts with an open diff, guess the slicks really loaded her up, :(

cordes
04-11-2006, 09:07 PM
Seems like a lot of people are having probelems with their cars these days. When it rains it pours I guess. At least most of us are able to drive them more than we work on them these days.

turbovanmanČ
04-11-2006, 09:26 PM
I am finally getting near the end of my tether. It was a long one but its now getting short. Just took the diff out of my original trans, I did burnouts with DR's for over a year with this diff and its mint, not a mark on the pin, gears, WTF?

boost geek
04-11-2006, 11:32 PM
OBX TIME :nod:

86Shelby
04-11-2006, 11:53 PM
Look at the bright side, at least yours got trashed before it took out the case! It took the punishment for a while. A souvenier of sorts. :(

turbovanmanČ
04-12-2006, 12:04 AM
I just got it running, lol, it didn't even last a week, :censored:

Dick, I would love an OBX, I just don't have $450 US dollars. Need to pay/buy other stuff first. I have a wanted ad out incase someone bought one and changed there mind, we could trade and some money but no bites yet.

boost geek
04-12-2006, 12:13 AM
I know what you mean, I wouldn't have had one either, but my boss gave me a "nice" christmas bonus...
Now... I have income tax return :D

Dave
04-12-2006, 08:26 AM
How were you doing your burnouts? Was it a stock diff? PG insert?

turbovanmanČ
04-12-2006, 11:11 AM
How were you doing your burnouts? Was it a stock diff? PG insert?


You have a lousy memory Bryan, :p

Using a AB insert. yep, doing burnouts at the track. I guess the slicks grabbed so well that it just chewed up the gears and stuff, its a friggin mess! :mad:

CletusJones
04-12-2006, 01:19 PM
What are these inserts you guys are talking about?

turbovanmanČ
04-12-2006, 01:22 PM
Check out the link. I would get one for the street, they do work well for that but you can get an OBX LSD for $450 shipped though which is a 1000% times better.


http://www.fwdperformance.com/store/Category.asp?IDCatalog=61&txtCatalog=Transmission%20::%20Transmission%20Part s

jckrieger
04-12-2006, 01:56 PM
This thread makes me glad I have an OBX waiting for me at JT's for my CSX. I've never had a diff issue with my a555 or a568, but I really don't trust a413's or a520's anymore. Hell, my mom's 99 Caravan could use an OBX, her diff exploded without ever spinning a tire at 88K miles.

turbovanmanČ
04-12-2006, 03:30 PM
What pisses me off is if it had gear oil, I guarantee this wouldn't have happened. I was considering making the diff have its own oil but then I would have to take my trans apart to do the mods. Maybe next time.

turbovanmanČ
04-14-2006, 12:44 PM
Heres the pics, you can see on the cross shaft where the gears actually welded themselves to the shaft. I forgot to take pics of the side gears but basically, the side that touches the insert is all chewed up.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics061.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics062.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics063.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics064.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics067.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics068.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/Broken%20parts/Canoncamerapics069.jpg

Bob Sweet
04-14-2006, 12:58 PM
I looked at the link. What is the AB insert you are talking about? I assume it is similar to the PG insert? I guess I should quit doing the burnouts in the wife's 03 PT GT with the 41TE with Autostick! Well maybe I won't because it is still under 7/70,000 warranty! Sucks that you screwed up your trans though..

turbovanmanČ
04-14-2006, 12:59 PM
Alabama Man insert, I believe he was the first and PG came along. Exactly the same thing.

I got my new/used diff back in, dropped the oil pan, full of metal and fine bits, grrrrrrrrrrrr. Luckily I have to play with my VB anyhow so I can clean all that crap out of there.

Turbodave
04-14-2006, 01:17 PM
What pisses me off is if it had gear oil, I guarantee this wouldn't have happened. I was considering making the diff have its own oil but then I would have to take my trans apart to do the mods. Maybe next time.

Now that you mention that, you may want to look at one of the early 413's. It's been a long time since I've seen one, but I seem to remember them having a seperate check plug for the differential which would make one think they are seperated internally. This was on a 81 K-car from what I recall.

Edit: I guess the early 2.2 transmissions were an A404, used through 83. Not sure what the difference between them and an A413 is however, other than what I mentioned above.

Bob Sweet
04-14-2006, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the info Simon. My 88 Shelby Z would love one. It also wants alot of other things like a 2-1/2" exhaust...

turbovanmanČ
04-15-2006, 12:04 AM
Now that you mention that, you may want to look at one of the early 413's. It's been a long time since I've seen one, but I seem to remember them having a seperate check plug for the differential which would make one think they are seperated internally. This was on a 81 K-car from what I recall.

Edit: I guess the early 2.2 transmissions were an A404, used through 83. Not sure what the difference between them and an A413 is however, other than what I mentioned above.

I have done the research, its not a big deal. You need to use a pump gasket from the older model-this blocks off trans fluid to the diff housing. You need to install a seal on the output shaft-which is what the governor is mounted on, then install a vent onto the right axle housing and finally, install a fill plug on the diff cover. My ATSG book shows the differences between them. If I hadn't found this cheap OBX, I would have pulled my trans out this weekend and modified it for gear oil.

Ubmbass
04-15-2006, 09:48 AM
That looks a lot like my trans when I exploded my alabama man insert. But your shaft is still in one piece, mine was in 4, I also broke both spider gears in 3-4 pieces LOL. damn 413's.

Directconnection
04-15-2006, 10:04 AM
This thread makes me glad I have an OBX waiting for me at JT's for my CSX. I've never had a diff issue with my a555 or a568, but I really don't trust a413's or a520's anymore. Hell, my mom's 99 Caravan could use an OBX, her diff exploded without ever spinning a tire at 88K miles.

IMaybe not during the summer months, but what about winter driving? A friend of mine has worked at the dealership for almost 30 years now. Tells me they usually get cars in right after a big snowstorm as people get stuck, and then spin the snot out of their diff which eventually causes serious problems as you can figure out:eyebrows:

Directconnection
04-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Alabama Man insert, I believe he was the first and PG came along. Exactly the same thing.

I got my new/used diff back in, dropped the oil pan, full of metal and fine bits, grrrrrrrrrrrr. Luckily I have to play with my VB anyhow so I can clean all that crap out of there.

The Phantom Grip was 1st, and then Andy came out with his improved design, ala the Alabama Man.

I won't profess to know SQUAT about the 413.... but when I see the side gear's ID chewed up and the pin they ride on look like they tried welding themselves to... this tells me that the gears were spinning. When the gears spin (one tire spinning... or not evenely) with this kind of extreme load on them you will see a failure. As you know... the gears only spin when one tire turns at a different rate than the other. They are meant to do this biasing but not spin at a multiple rate like when doing a one-wheeled burnout. One legged burnouts spin that gear at a crazy rate! (I know you must know this...but leading into my next question...:)


So, my next question.... did you notice any one wheeled burnouts at the track?

Directconnection
04-15-2006, 12:37 PM
Wanted to add.... next time you go to a junkyard or play with an RC car's differential as well.... spin one wheel slighly more than the other (like in a turn) and notice who slowly the one gear turns opposed to the other. Notice when both wheels turn the same rate, the spiders don't spin on the pins. Now hold one wheel steady, and turn the other over by hand and you'll see that the gear spins alot! Take an RC car and hold one wheel and let the other rip and the wheel rotation in mph pratically doubles at the same engine rpm vs. both wheels. That's one big reason why those gears/pins fail.

turbovanmanČ
04-15-2006, 12:42 PM
I know and I know, :eyebrows:

AB's are supposed to stop that but I digress, lol!

I didn't notice, I mean look at my video, the lane is full of smoke, looks like 2 wheels are needed for that, :nod:

Doesn't matter, OBX is on the way and another learning curve, thank god I have lots of spare parts, actually, this is my last diff, :(

Directconnection
04-15-2006, 01:20 PM
OBX diffs... I thought they only made them for Neon 5-speeds? Or is it that these can be retroed into a 413 and 555 as well?

boost geek
04-15-2006, 01:35 PM
I know and I know, :eyebrows:

AB's are supposed to stop that but I digress, lol!

I didn't notice, I mean look at my video, the lane is full of smoke, looks like 2 wheels are needed for that, :nod:

:(
The way you were smokin' and hooking up at the track, there's no way you were spinning 1 tire...

turbovanmanČ
04-15-2006, 02:20 PM
OBX diffs... I thought they only made them for Neon 5-speeds? Or is it that these can be retroed into a 413 and 555 as well?

Thats right, you get one for the Neon with the 420A engine, then you need to make an adapter plate and use longer bolts to get it to fit the A413. Check out the trans FAQ section and click on Carls website, he was the first to do it and a few people now make the spacers. I am awaiting one from T2 Shadow, :thumb:


Dick, I know but obviously I was only spinning one tire at some point, otherwise my diff wouldn't have gone boom, :(

I should have made them put more water down but with the OBX, I won't care, :thumb:

looneytuner
04-15-2006, 05:15 PM
I have a good 413 dif with a new pin if you want some more practice pulling the transmission.:evil:

turbovanmanČ
04-15-2006, 05:18 PM
I have a good 413 dif with a new pin if you want some more practice pulling the transmission.:evil:

No thanks, I have had enough practice :censored: I emailed T2 about the spacers but he hasn't got back to me, :(

jckrieger
04-15-2006, 05:38 PM
IMaybe not during the summer months, but what about winter driving? A friend of mine has worked at the dealership for almost 30 years now. Tells me they usually get cars in right after a big snowstorm as people get stuck, and then spin the snot out of their diff which eventually causes serious problems as you can figure out:eyebrows:

The van never really saw much winter driving and it had never been stuck in snow/ice/mud. The best part was the pin and the spider gears were in good shape! There was some minor galling on the pin, but nothing worse than what you could do with a pair of pliers. It seems like there might be some manufacturing issues, as some differentials will put up with TONS of abuse, and some come apart for no reason at all.

Directconnection
04-15-2006, 06:20 PM
The way you were smokin' and hooking up at the track, there's no way you were spinning 1 tire...


Maybe he was.... what was your 60ft Simon? 2.1x on slicks? Sounds like there was a traction issue to get a 2.1 on slicks. Possibly spinning one wheel off the line a tad??? Maybe not.

turbovanmanČ
04-15-2006, 06:55 PM
Maybe he was.... what was your 60ft Simon? 2.1x on slicks? Sounds like there was a traction issue to get a 2.1 on slicks. Possibly spinning one wheel off the line a tad??? Maybe not.

My 60ft's weren't great, 2.0-2.1 secs. I could get that with DR's and street tires. Definately room for improvement.