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ShelGame
02-20-2009, 12:14 PM
Ok, here's an idea I thought of:

Put a 2.5 Turbo engine into a Jeep Cherokee 4x4.

-Use the block from a Dakota.
-8V T1 pistons/rods
-8V turbo head
-8V Turbo Exhaust mani
-custom intake mani
-use the AX15 bellhousing from a 2wd Dakota
-bolt it up to the 4x4 AX15/transfer case used in the 5-speed Jeeps
-wire in a turbo SMEC/SBEC (if it's an early 90's Jeep, it will already be wired for an SBEC, probaly have to move some pins around)

Any reason why it woudln't work? I bet the 2.5 turbo would have more power and torque than the Jeep 6. Probably get better fuel economy, too. Anyone else ever thought of it or tried it?

bfarroo
02-20-2009, 06:33 PM
It's hard to say, I have a stock 2.5 running about 5-7 psi in my 95 dakota. Non intercooler. it feels ok in first and second gear but into 3rd and 4th is doesn't have all that much get up and go. Now the gearing is all wrong for a turbo motor. In 5th gear I'm at 2000 RPM at 65 in 5th. 2600 in 4th. It also has the larger off road tires on it that may be slightly taller than stock. I pull my shadow with it and it will barely hold 65 at 3psi boost in 4th gear. A built up 2.5 may do ok but the 4wd drive train with the trans, transfer case and rear end eat up a lot of power. The problem is that out of boost the motor doesn't make all that much torque/hp and a dakota or jeep are like pushing a box down the road. If you've got the parts and the jeep I'd say go for it. I also only get about 17mpg currently.

Aries_Turbo
02-21-2009, 12:39 AM
the pos ax15 would be my biggest concern.

135sohc
02-21-2009, 01:51 AM
the pos ax15 would be my biggest concern.

The AX15 is fine. its the Peugeot BA10-5 thats the pos

turbovanmanČ
02-21-2009, 02:16 AM
I agree, out of boost I don't think it would have enough torque, unless maybe you ran a higher compression.

I think 2wd would be ok, 4wd, not so much.

zin
02-21-2009, 02:47 AM
I think you'll be fine if you can build the engine with enough beans to do the job. That gearing might be a bit of a handicap though...

Mike

Aries_Turbo
02-21-2009, 01:13 PM
The AX15 is fine. its the Peugeot BA10-5 thats the pos

i dunno man, every ax15 jeep that ive seen has had problems, losing a gear, getting stuck in a gear, general failures etc. and that isnt at that high of mileage and with a stock 4.0L in front of it.

i just dont think it will like the mountain of torque that our motors will produce.

now you show me some built 4.0L ax15 jeeps with lots of power and torque and lasting a long time and ill stand corrected but for now, its not the best tranny in my experience.

Brian

135sohc
02-22-2009, 02:28 AM
i dunno man, every ax15 jeep that ive seen has had problems, losing a gear, getting stuck in a gear, general failures etc. and that isnt at that high of mileage and with a stock 4.0L in front of it.

i just dont think it will like the mountain of torque that our motors will produce.

now you show me some built 4.0L ax15 jeeps with lots of power and torque and lasting a long time and ill stand corrected but for now, its not the best tranny in my experience.

Brian

Never heard bad things about it. Novak adapter and elsewhere all have posative things to say of it.

Vigo
02-22-2009, 07:48 PM
I think its a decent idea, but you better have some LOW gears in it. You're gonna need to spin the motor at like 3500 rpm to maintain speed on the highway without being in boost constantly.

I think its a cool idea. Ive seen lifted turbo 22re toyota truck pull the front tires on the dragstrip (massive weight transfer helps...) and with enough boost it will move. Front mount ic might be tough in a cherokee.

Also, realistically you gotta be running a decent amount of boost on a stock 2.5 before you pass up a 4.0's stock torque. certainly cant do it at non intercooled boost.

turbo84voyager
02-23-2009, 04:31 PM
It will take a lot to match the torque a 4.0 has off the line. It would be neat to see but in my opinion its hard to beat the durability of a 4.0 and this swap would take too much work.

WLKivett
02-23-2009, 06:29 PM
... just build a stroked 4.0http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Stroker/Stroker.htm

Captain Chaos
02-23-2009, 08:57 PM
I remember a guy in town taking his wifes 2wd 4.0 Cherokee street racing and absolutely raping all but the N2O and forced inducted imports.

zin
02-23-2009, 09:08 PM
Didn't someone use a Supra Trans in a RWD application using the same bellhousing? Memory is a bit foggy, so I may be mistaken, but that might be a way to make it live, if the trans is a weak link.

Mike

ShelGame
02-23-2009, 09:34 PM
I doubt the Supra trans will take the Jeep transfer case, though.

I know a 4.2 would be sweet. I'm just looking for a daily driver that I can use my stash of parts on. There was an add on CL for a $500 Cherokee nearby, but the guy never e-mailed me back. Probably gone already.

rbryant
02-24-2009, 12:31 PM
The later model cherokee doesn't really need a swap I agree with the 4.0 comments. It is a beast and is very reliable. Mine has 197k on it and is going strong.

An early V6 cherokee could use the swap though because the GM V6 that comes in them is a POS and the 4.0 won't fit (they changed the firewall on the later model cherokees)


-Rich

contraption22
02-24-2009, 01:14 PM
Best of both worlds....

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/engine/154_0508_jeep_4_0l_turbo/index.html

turbo84voyager
02-24-2009, 02:29 PM
A common engine swap in jeeps is the 3.9 Cummins B series. It is the 4 cylinder version of the 5.9 in the rams. This was used in delivery trucks and are not hard to find ( UPS, frito-lay, etc). You get mileage, torque and power...

Aries_Turbo
02-24-2009, 08:48 PM
thats one simple turbo kit lol. im sure rob would spend some time with the jeeps ecu though rather than use a FMU. :) the FMU/Pump setup is pretty ingenious.

Brian

ShelGame
02-25-2009, 09:14 AM
A common engine swap in jeeps is the 3.9 Cummins B series. It is the 4 cylinder version of the 5.9 in the rams. This was used in delivery trucks and are not hard to find ( UPS, frito-lay, etc). You get mileage, torque and power...

There was a Grand Cheroke on eBay (or was it just YouTube?) that had that swap. It was sweet - but not cheap. I was considering this only because I have a ton of spare engine parts in the garage that aren't doing anything, and I saw an add for a cheap Cherokee that needed an engine.

Still, I can't imagine the turbo 2.5 is any worse than the Jeep 2.5 that the Cherokees also got.

fleckster
02-25-2009, 09:59 AM
Call me nuts ("You're Nuts, Fleck!), but I want to take, say a 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger (like I had) and swap in a 2.5L Turbo with RWD. They only weighed around 2800-2900lbs with a Slant 6 so It wouldn't be much heavier than a Shadow or something but with RWD, good fuel economy, and just that "It's weird but cool!" factor.

Aries_Turbo
02-25-2009, 05:01 PM
me too^^^

Vigo
02-25-2009, 06:54 PM
personally, my dream early mopar is a 62-64 lancer/dart. Just about the smallest ( and imo coolest looking, dont kill me!) rwd antique mopar there is.

past that i'd probly do a full size truck with a cummins swap as far as the old rwd stuff goes.

dds78910
02-26-2009, 01:46 AM
A common engine swap in jeeps is the 3.9 Cummins B series. It is the 4 cylinder version of the 5.9 in the rams. This was used in delivery trucks and are not hard to find ( UPS, frito-lay, etc). You get mileage, torque and power...

You beat me to it, that is what I would have said. I'm looking for a 4bt now for my 78 Ramcharger unless I find a good deal on a older 3/4 ton 4X4 older cummins. Something about the 4bt interests me.

A 2.5 turbo swap would be cool but I think the 4.0 is a good motor and have seen some make some good MPGs.

ShelGame
03-02-2009, 03:27 PM
After looking at it again, I think the way to go would be a 'budget' 4.5 stroker using the 258 crank/rods.

rbryant
03-02-2009, 03:59 PM
After looking at it again, I think the way to go would be a 'budget' 4.5 stroker using the 258 crank/rods.

Or just keep the 4.0.

The 4.6 stroker is cool but if you use the stock pistons I think it increases the compression ratio so that you probably need atleast mid grade fuel where otherwise you can just run plain old 87 octane.

Make sure you run the later style electronics and a HO head.

The cherokee really isn't a heavy truck. Mine is only about 3300lbs so the HO 4.0 is plenty of engine for it with something like 190hp and 220ft*lbs of torque.

-Rich

ShelGame
03-02-2009, 04:11 PM
Or just keep the 4.0.

The 4.6 stroker is cool but if you use the stock pistons I think it increases the compression ratio so that you probably need atleast mid grade fuel where otherwise you can just run plain old 87 octane.

Make sure you run the later style electronics and a HO head.

The cherokee really isn't a heavy truck. Mine is only about 3300lbs so the HO 4.0 is plenty of engine for it with something like 190hp and 220ft*lbs of torque.

-Rich

I know. We had one when we first got married. I liked it alot. But, I want to tow the race car/open trailer with it. At ~3500lb, I think it will need a little more than stock. Plus, I just can't leave it alone. It's not natural...

rbryant
03-02-2009, 04:29 PM
I know. We had one when we first got married. I liked it alot. But, I want to tow the race car/open trailer with it. At ~3500lb, I think it will need a little more than stock. Plus, I just can't leave it alone. It's not natural...

Yea I had big plans of building a stroker engine for mine too but I have found that all of my projects take 10x the time they should and I will never get them done before I die...

I think the overall lack of weight on the cherokee would be a bigger issue than the engine. Remember the disaster that Dave St. Louis had when towing his shadow with a grand cherokee? Both cars were toast after the trailer jack knifed on him. He was lucky that nobody got hurt... I am sure thread might still be around on TD.com or somewhere else. He might also have some comments if he is still on the message boards.

The Jeep really isn't heavy enough to tow car for long distances. For instance U-Haul would only rent me a tow dolly if I said I was towing a geo metro. Any other car was considered too heavy.

I think there are some rules of thumb about how heavy your tow vehicle should be vs. its load and the Cherokee at 3300lbs towing a 2600+lb car isn't going to meet them.

While towing something bigger once in a while for short distances is fine towing something for many miles with a cherokee probably isn't the safest thing in the world.

-Rich

ShelGame
03-02-2009, 04:36 PM
Yea I had big plans of building a stroker engine for mine too but I have found that all of my projects take 10x the time they should and I will never get them done before I die...

I think the overall lack of weight on the cherokee would be a bigger issue than the engine. Remember the disaster that Dave St. Louis had when towing his shadow with a grand cherokee? Both cars were toast after the trailer jack knifed on him. He was lucky that nobody got hurt... I am sure thread might still be around on TD.com or somewhere else. He might also have some comments if he is still on the message boards.

The Jeep really isn't heavy enough to tow car for long distances. For instance U-Haul would only rent me a tow dolly if I said I was towing a geo metro. Any other car was considered too heavy.

I think there are some rules of thumb about how heavy your tow vehicle should be vs. its load and the Cherokee at 3300lbs towing a 2600+lb car isn't going to meet them.

While towing something bigger once in a while for short distances is fine towing something for many miles with a cherokee probably isn't the safest thing in the world.

-Rich

The longest I tow is to Indy @ ~4-5hours. Most races are within 2 hours from home. I pulled the car/trailer all alst year with my Pathfinder. Though, that's a bit heavier @~4400lbs.

The trailer also has brakes on the front axle, so that should help prevent the jackknifing.

rbryant
03-02-2009, 04:46 PM
The longest I tow is to Indy @ ~4-5hours. Most races are within 2 hours from home. I pulled the car/trailer all alst year with my Pathfinder. Though, that's a bit heavier @~4400lbs.

The trailer also has brakes on the front axle, so that should help prevent the jackknifing.

4400 is ~33% heavier than the Cherokee...

Remember the Cherokee is a unibody rather than full frame truck so it is a lightweight.

-Rich

Vigo
03-02-2009, 10:12 PM
I just towed our dakota (~3900lbs?) on my tow dolley with a jeep cherokee and we DID find that it was a little dangerous. Taking corners at ANY real speed, the momentum of the truck would push the tail of the jeep out wide (sliding). We almost jackknifed it taking a turn at the bottom of a hill.

Thats the only time ive towed with a cherokee, and the only time ive had that issue, but it has to be due to relative weight (or lack thereof) on the back of the cherokee.