Rich's 87 GLHS SRT4/568 Engine Swap

[rbryant]

Here are the pictures of the SRT4 engine with 568 being installed from the bottom.

I am using 96-99 Stratus accessories because I feel that they fit into the lbody engine bay better than the SRT4 accessories. I also didn't want to mess with running PS hoses to the front of the engine when there isn't much room in an lbody.

It turns out that there is a lot of room on the rear of the car for a remote PS reservoir where if it was on the front I would never have had a hard time running the TB on the passenger side because the PS pump/lines/reservoir would be in the way and if I ran a remote reservoir I would have had to run yet another set of lines....

The biggest disadvantage of the Stratus accessories is that they run a 6 rib belt for the AC/Alternator and there isn't a readily available cheap underdrive pulley for this setup and the stratus pulley is kind of a beast compared to even the stock SRT4 pulley... I believe there is now one manufacturer for it but it is something like $200 for the pulley. IMO money would be better spent on a lighter flywheel as weight is the main savings on underdrive pulleys as the accessories will just run more if they spin slower and they are usually off at WOT anyway.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P10100302.JPG

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P10100331.JPG


The tightest clearance on the whole install is the PS pulley to the frame rail. It really doesn't clear with the engine properly centered with stock length axles.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P10100391.JPG


Here are some measurements that I wish I had before I started. Hopefully they will give people an idea of what they are dealing with.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P10100481.JPG

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P1010049.JPG

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P10100501.JPG


AC fits into the bottom of the bay but is tight in the very front corner (bottom left). I may need to either tilt the engine forward or clearance that part of the body a little. I can always invert it and reweld. If it wasn't a numbered car I would definitely cut the car here for clearance and reinforce it with a new piece.

The stratus bracket normally connects to a boss on the oil pan which doesn't exist on the SRT4 pan so only 2 bolt holes align. I drilled a new hole in the bracket and used a button top bolt into an existing boss in order to get a 3rd bolt hole. If you look closely you can see the button top bolt in the center of the bracket behind the compressor.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P1010051.JPG


The alternator fits just fine with no problems. I did take a lot of material out of the bracket so that I can run the waterbox bypass to the heater core through where it used to be. It also interfered with the plenum on the soon to be custom intake manifold.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/P1010052.JPG


The header is angled slightly between the head and firewall to give some extra firewall clearance. I also had an ATP cast manifold but the turbine housing hit the firewall heat shield so it was a no go.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/P10100172.JPG


Here is a shot of the clearance of the Hy35 turbine housing to the firewall. I would have liked to have it turned upward just a bit more but the welder couldn't do much more and still get the tip in for good welds on the manifold.

The angle between the firewall and head is about as good as I can do without having the exhaust outlet get into the firewall. I can always remove the stock heat sheild and run something thinner but I have about .5" of clearance so it should be fine.

This also shows the oil return line. It goes to the stock SRT4 oil drain hole which I threaded for 1/2" NPT and used a 45 degree 1/2" NPT to AN-10 fitting on. Make sure you tap the threads extra deep so you can get the 45 degree fitting in as far as possible so it doesn't hit the starter...

I found this to be a better option than running it into the pan and trying to keep the line away from the axle... The AN-10 line also has a 45 degree angle back up to try and keep the line as vertical as possible.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/P10100222.JPG


Here is the firewall clearance of the compressor housing. This isn't the actual housing I will use but it is the same size. The HY35 and HE341 are the same diameter. The HE351 is about 1" larger so it would be .5" closer to the firewall.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/P10100192.JPG

[omni_840]

Looking good :thumb:

Please keep us updated on the progress

[blk86trbo]

Looks nice Rich, that's gonna be fun once you get it on the road :nod:

[t3rse]

what intake are you using?

[rbryant]

what intake are you using?

Full custom sheet metal manifold from all_motor_mike on the neons forum. I am very lucky that he is local to me.

It is just about done but is getting some touch up work to clear my radiator. The rad is thicker than what anyone else has ran with the swap so the runners are super short. The Intake will also have the TB on the passenger side similar to what turboshad did with a shadow swap.

The shadow had a lot more room than mine so I will have much shorter runners and more of a true box plenum.

Turboshad seems to have a lot of the same ideas I do. I was also looking at running the wategate from the EGR mounting holes like he is even before I saw it. I also will run the TB on the passenger side, and of course his tranny boss is basically the same as mine.

It is a good example of how showing the build logs really helps everyone.

-Rich

[2.216VTurbo]

Looking good Rich:thumb: Any idea what thickness the sheet metal is for the intake, mines 3/16's and I wish it were 1/4. It's cracked at the seam once and now it has a barrel shape in the top where it used to be flat-this just happened at the Team Shelby event in Vegas even though the manifold has been on there for 8+ years so it's still may fail completely at one point.:( If ALL-MOTOR_MIKE is used to all motor manifolds, he may be using relatively thin sheet... Got a project completion date? Mopars at the Strip maybe:eyebrows:?

[rbryant]

Looking good Rich:thumb: Any idea what thickness the sheet metal is for the intake, mines 3/16's and I wish it were 1/4. It's cracked at the seam once and now it has a barrel shape in the top where it used to be flat-this just happened at the Team Shelby event in Vegas even though the manifold has been on there for 8+ years so it's still may fail completely at one point.:( If ALL-MOTOR_MIKE is used to all motor manifolds, he may be using relatively thin sheet... Got a project completion date? Mopars at the Strip maybe:eyebrows:?

The plenum its self is a fairly thin wall.

It doesn't seem like the wall should really matter considering that the intercooler pipes are even thinner. I suppose they don't have seams though...

Is the reason for the thicker wall just to make it so things don't flex as much?

I know that he does weld the seams on the inside and then the outside to get them as strong as possible and they have already been used with turbo applications on neons.

I guess we will see but his welds are very nice and I am sure he will fix it if it breaks because he is local to me and I can find him.. :)

Getting something that will fit is the first challenge after that I can always copy the plenum with a thicker wall material in the future if I really need to and if it cracks he will be giving me a a deal on a thick walled replacement!

Thanks for the tip!

-Rich

[t3rse]

It is a good example of how showing the build logs really helps everyone.

poke at me? lol

If I were smart I would have done something similar so I wouldn't have had to go water...but I wanted to anways.

My other idea was to make an integrated intercooler/intake where the charge pipe would run in near the front motor mount then travel up through the intercooler into the plenum with water running horizontally...maybe later I suppose.

[rbryant]

poke at me? lol



Definately not!

There are lots of ways to do things. It is also very hard to get things documented. Your project is clearly farther along than mine is!

I am just getting around to adding the pictures to a build thread and nothing is even close to running after months of on and off work.

It looks like some pictures also disappeared... I will have to look into why that happened and put them back....

EDIT: Apparently you have to actually have the gallery process the images after you upload or they will go away if you link to the original path they give you...

-Rich

[t3rse]

I haven't assembled a log because I don't know yet that everything I did will work and I don't want to lead someone down the wrong path via speculation...at least you will be able to use an a/a i/c...lol. My problem is that I did everything on a college budget with income from bouncing at a bar so I cheaped out in a lot of areas...thank God I have awesome friends with machine shop access. All the pics can be found here: http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap

edit: sorry for getting off topic

[rbryant]

I haven't assembled a log because I don't know yet that everything I did will work and I don't want to lead someone down the wrong path via speculation...at least you will be able to use an a/a i/c...lol. My problem is that I did everything on a college budget with income from bouncing at a bar so I cheaped out in a lot of areas...thank God I have awesome friends with machine shop access. All the pics can be found here: http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap

Awesome that you took so many pictures it will be really cool to see your writeup. Different types of builds all have their advantages and disadvantages.

The water to air route also has some advantages. I am only running 2.25" IC tubes and I am not sure if I can even fit the 2.5" if it becomes a restriction. I also have a lot of bends in the IC pipes.

I think your setup is actually much more of a race setup than mine is so it makes sense that we did some things differently. I would have never been able to do the build you did when I was in college. I was still just messing around with a simple TII swap at that time... :)


BTW:

You freaks in the put the engine in from the top club really amuse me....
Do you put your underwear on from over your head too? ;) (this really is a holy war but I can't help but comment)

Ok enough with the light hearted jabs I look forward to seeing your writeup in the future and I will keep working on this one once things get closer... :)

-Rich

[t3rse]

I don't have jack stands tall enough and to reiterate...I'm a cheap azz.

[rbryant]

I don't have jack stands tall enough and to reiterate...I'm a cheap azz.

Ok I will forgive you if it is through necessity rather than choice. :P

If it works for you that is fine I am just stirring the pot on this ancient debate because I wanted to document how even the 2.4 fits from the bottom. :)

I might even have some pictures of rolling the engine in through the wheel well which I can include in the thread. :)

-Rich

[rosie]

..... and I wish it were 1/4. It's cracked at the seam once and now it has a barrel shape in the top where it used to be flat-this just happened at the Team Shelby event in Vegas even though the manifold has been on there for 8+ years so it's still may fail completely at one point.:( ......

Dude That SUCKS!!!! I love that intake with that ghost of a shelby sticker and the crinkle coat on it.....

So sad :(:mecry:

[rbryant]

Dude That SUCKS!!!! I love that intake with that ghost of a shelby sticker and the crinkle coat on it.....

So sad :(:mecry:

That does suck. Hopefully I won't have that problem.

The main part of the manifold is a 4" round cut in half so that portion should be strong. The runner plate is just sheet metal but it is reinforced by the runner connections and the taper portion isn't really very wide so I am hoping it will be ok. Things are double welded everywhere except the connection to the runner plate because it is not possible to weld the last inside portion...

Alan,

Do you have pictures of the crack?

Thanks,

Rich

[rbryant]

I will post some pictures of the intake test fitted tonight when I get home.

I ran into a snag now... The engine had to shift toward the passenger side about 1/4" to get the axles aligned....

Now the PS pump pulley hits the frame rail. I am looking at either modifying the pulley, moving the pump, going with a manual rack, or running an electric PS pump (which actually doesn't seem that bad).

[turboshad]

Hmmmmm, I already wrote this post but for some reason it didn't make it to the thread so here goes again :confused2:

Things are looking good Rich. You've got more balls than me trying to fit in AC and building the intake right from the runner flange. I cheated and used the neon to start with :eyebrows:

+1 on seeing some pics of the intake Alan. On mine I used a .065" wall 3" 90 and then 3/16" for the body. On my analysis with 30psi the most I saw was .016" (~1/64") of displacement in the body and on a fatigue test cycling from 0-30psi it wasn't even close to failing any time soon albiet it is pretty hard to simulate a weld. I would be curious to see how yours was designed and where it ended up failing.


Now the PS pump pulley hits the fuel rail.

You mean frame rail right?

[rbryant]

You mean frame rail right?

Yea I must have entered into some type of auto-complete typing mode.

The pulley was about 1/4" from the frame rail before and now it is touching. It is basically at zero clearance. I could probably modify the pulley and run a 3 rib belt but I am not sure it will work.

Alternatively I can try to run a 1g neon pulley with a v belt to see if that gives enough clearance.

It looks like you also went with the stratus accessories... How close was your PS pump pulley to the shadow frame rail?

Thanks,

Rich

[2.216VTurbo]

I'll dig for the old pics of the crack/welding and take some new ones of my new (now round:() intake manifold

Rich, 4" tube is super strong, it's what I use for my IC end tanks, if your sheet is just a short (narrow) strip, you want have any problems. Remember Shad, it's not the 30PSI or whatever boost, it can handle that no problem. It's the 1500 bazillion PSI it sees when you get a backfire pop:( Strange how I didn't get any deformation (or backfires presumably) for 8+ years but when it hit the track in Vegas at the Team Shelby event, that's all it did was pop:o Admittedly I had some tuning issues...

[turboshad]

Ahhhh..that makes more sence. I didn't know it happened from a backfire. If we were going to design an intake to handle that we might as well also build the engines with 2" thick pistons to handle detonation. :D That clears up my confusion with the 3/16" yielding. Either way, it would be cool to see the pics and how it failed.

[rbryant]

I'll dig for the old pics of the crack/welding and take some new ones of my new (now round:() intake manifold

Rich, 4" tube is super strong, it's what I use for my IC end tanks, if your sheet is just a short (narrow) strip, you want have any problems. Remember Shad, it's not the 30PSI or whatever boost, it can handle that no problem. It's the 1500 bazillion PSI it sees when you get a backfire pop:( Strange how I didn't get any deformation (or backfires presumably) for 8+ years but when it hit the track in Vegas at the Team Shelby event, that's all it did was pop:o Admittedly I had some tuning issues...

Hmm good point.

If this happens then perhaps and becomes a problem a 30-40psi pop off valve would be a good idea.

-Rich

[johnl]

Hey Rich - just saw this thread. Simply beautiful. I am awed by the work and the thought that you have put into this project. Also, I thank you for documenting it.

Alan's plenum is basically a rectangular box - which shape maximizes the internal volume for the space available between the Masi head and the L body core support - front to rear, and the hood and distributor, top to bottom. I'd of done the same. The problem though is that flat panels, as opposed to curved panels want to balloon and flex into the shape of a curve. So. . . . it flexed and flexed and after many cycles, it cracked.

Your half circle on top of the runner plate will be fine. The half circle can't flex and the runner plate is reinforced by the runners/weld and the seam welds.

In hindsight, a box plenum, such as Alan's needs thickness or ribbing, internal or external, to stiffen the flat sections.

[Austrian Dodge]

nice work, rich! looks like 2009 is going to be a 2.4 year ;)

[glhs0426]

Did you use the 95-00 Stratus "plate" that bolts to the side of the block as the basis for the right mount? I need to start making the mount for GLHS441 because when he blows up the TIII again this year I'll be hard pressed to help him put another engine together.:D

John

[rbryant]

Did you use the 95-00 Stratus "plate" that bolts to the side of the block as the basis for the right mount? I need to start making the mount for GLHS441 because when he blows up the TIII again this year I'll be hard pressed to help him put another engine together.:D

John

Yea it is just the stratus mount bracket and a TMN (toomany neons) adapter.

I will make a better adapter that uses M10 bolts from the top side instead of the 5/16 bolts that it currently uses (through 5/16 bolts thorough the m10 threaded holes on the bottom.

-Rich

[rbryant]

Here are some intake manifold pics.

It started out as a 4" half round welded into a taper. After a fight with my radiator it now has a flat front side too... Oh well I am willing to make compromises in order to fit full radiator/fan and have everything fit.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/AMM_Intake_Manifold_front2.jpg

Mike says Hello...
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/AMM_Intake_manifold_driver_side.jpg

We also made a custom waterbox so that things would fit and I could use a standard GM smallblock swivel waterneck...
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/AMM_Intake_manifold_and_waterbox.jpg

60mm Jeep Cherokee TB. You can also see that the runners were cut and rewelded with a taper in them. It is about 4 degrees. I didn't plan on them being quite this short so it is probably mute but it is still cool to say I did it I guess...

You can also see the tip of the 72" Lokar custom braided throttle cable that I had to buy... It has the quick disconnect end that the Jeep uses and had a clevis end on the petal side that fortunately could be removed to have a stock style ball so everything seems to work out great on that other than the $75 pricetag... I thought about making a custom one from some bike brake cable, etc but decided to just take the easy route and save soem time instead of saving $40 or so.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/AMM_Intake_manifold_passenger_side.jpg

75lb injectors and about the best angle we an do to clear the plenum

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/AMM_Intake_manifold_driver_side_with_injectors.jpg

And a couple of my modified Holset compressor side before the polishing that will be done...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Holset_HX35_modified_with_90_side.jpg


It is nice to set your own angle to avoid extra 90 degree Silicone fittings...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Holset_HX35_modified_with_90.jpg

The manifold rail and injectors are now off to the machine shop to get the flanges resurfaced, the injector bungs placement holes made, and we will also add some fuel rail attaching hardware.

As a side note the fuel rail is a TU 2 piece rail minus the brackets (I had it and it fits pretty well).

We are going to take about 1/8" off from the intake mani flange so I will have a small amount of clearance on the fan...

-Rich

[2.216VTurbo]

Good pics:thumb: That manifold looks plenty strong, like was mentioned, mine is a big flimsy box:o Sigh, hindsight and all...

[rbryant]

I think the solution to the power steering pulley clearance is to slot the mounting bracket and use a 3 rib belt. In fact 2/3 holes were already slotted from the factory on the bracket I have.

if I slot the bracket I can simply use the outer 3 ribs on the PS pulley and the inner 3 ribs on the crank pulley. Hopefully 1 rib to the driver side is enough because I don't think they even make 2 rib belts (but I guess a sharp utility knife might be able to solve that issue afterall it is just a dedicated PS belt and isn't shared with anything on the stratus accessories.

-Rich

[t3rse]

something you may want to consider...note the corner intake mounting holes are bored to accept dowels in the intake to ensure alignment

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap/motor_complete%20003.jpg

[rbryant]

something you may want to consider...note the corner intake mounting holes are bored to accept dowels in the intake to ensure alignment

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap/motor_complete%20003.jpg

That is a cool idea.

There is a story on my intake. Originally I had the holes cut to barely fit the bolts through and then I port matched the flange to them so that it could only go on one way. (a nice advantage of full custom)

I had a prototype that had larger bolt holes that I gave Mike to use because I didn't need it and then I had the good matched one.

He ended up accidentally selling my good one and left me with the prototype... Oh well I will just have to make sure the bolt holes are centered when I put it on or I could use your trick. I didn't want to wait for another to be cut so it will have to be good enough.

-Rich

[rbryant]

Good pics:thumb: That manifold looks plenty strong, like was mentioned, mine is a big flimsy box:o Sigh, hindsight and all...

Man you are being pretty hard on the manifold. It looked very nice to me.... Mine is built the way it is for space considerations more than anything. The half round piece was trimmed A LOT from where it started... It is also not going to be that big of a plenum and has super short runners all in the name of making it fit.

-Rich

[turboshad]

The intake looks sweet. They are definately some short runners but with the 2.4 16V you should be able to wind it out more and hopefully take advantage of that. I'm sure you could have gotten away with a slimmer rad to get some plenum back also but like everything else in the omni engine bay you have to pick your compromises. All in all it looks good. The one thing you want to watch with the water neck is that the fill cap is the highest point. Otherwise there is a possibility that you may have troubles getting all the air out. All speculation of course. Keep it up as I know you are going to love driving it around.

[rbryant]

The intake looks sweet. They are definately some short runners but with the 2.4 16V you should be able to wind it out more and hopefully take advantage of that. I'm sure you could have gotten away with a slimmer rad to get some plenum back also but like everything else in the omni engine bay you have to pick your compromises. All in all it looks good. The one thing you want to watch with the water neck is that the fill cap is the highest point. Otherwise there is a possibility that you may have troubles getting all the air out. All speculation of course. Keep it up as I know you are going to love driving it around.

The radiator could be slimmer but overall the shroud is very thin so the overall space is similar to a stock rad. Of course if I went with the same shroud on a thinner rad I could probably get back about 1" of space. Given the 115 degree days here in Phoenix I would rather have the short runner intake and not worry about overheating... In a colder climate I would have done the opposite.

The other option is to run a 13" scirocco raditor where I would have another 3" of space on the top. Those are only supposed to handle about 300hp according to their specs and I already had this rad from when I had the space on the 8V engine and we made everything fit so I am happy with it.

Good point on the fill cap. Bleeding it out every time I add water might be a pain.... I will take a look at that issue and see what I can do about it. Thanks for the feedback!

-Rich

[johnl]

With my GLHS and with the Ramerati, both of their radiator caps are at the highest points.

I STILL find that, to really drive the operating temps down, I have to check and re-check and re-fill and re-check and re-fill for five or six cycles before I can get ALL of the air out of the systems. They just take driving and sloshing and heat cycling to push all the trapped air pockets out of the system. It makes a difference.

[rbryant]

With my GLHS and with the Ramerati, both of their radiator caps are at the highest points.

I STILL find that, to really drive the operating temps down, I have to check and re-check and re-fill and re-check and re-fill for five or six cycles before I can get ALL of the air out of the systems. They just take driving and sloshing and heat cycling to push all the trapped air pockets out of the system. It makes a difference.

With the 8V engine I always used to top off the coolant into the plug in the top of the waterbox with the fill cap shut. I always found that more reliable than filling from the filler cap. It is pre t-stat so it does a better job of filling the engine up on the other side of the water pump.

I can change the waterneck to be a filler cap (as long as it clears the hood which is close as it is) If that fails I will just put an inline filler cap in or something.

-Rich

[t3rse]

with a hole in the T stat it doesn't matter which side you fill it on as long as the fill point is the highest point in the system and you allow time for the air to escape before assuming it is full...you could tap the top of the neck you made and put a 1/4" plug or even a valve to bleed it, if necessary, because in all reality, how often do you mess with coolant once the car is running right?

[rbryant]

with a hole in the T stat it doesn't matter which side you fill it on as long as the fill point is the highest point in the system and you allow time for the air to escape before assuming it is full...you could tap the top of the neck you made and put a 1/4" plug or even a valve to bleed it, if necessary, because in all reality, how often do you mess with coolant once the car is running right?

Yea it is usually a one time fill. The big thing that I can think of is that if the car did happen to boil over you would have to repeat the process. The easiest thing might be to just leave some slack in the heater core line and then put in a flush adapter. Whenever I fill it I could simply lift it up above the waterbox level and fill from the flush adapter...

I might see about putting a filler cap on the waterbox like the 2.4 engines have stock. I couldn't use the PT one because it was too tall and also didn't fit very well so we made a custom one. There are plenty of boxes from summit that fit my setup because I used a standard GM smallblock flange to give me lots of options...

-Rich

[glhs502]

Hey Rich any updates?

[rbryant]

Hey Rich any updates?

Not really. I am remodeling a bathroom and playing in two different baseball leagues so my time is limited lately.

There was talk of the manifold guy coming by tomorrow to do some final mockups before welding in the injector bungs on the manifold but I haven't heard from him in a few days to see if it is still on.

-Rich

[rbryant]

So it looks like the t-stat is going to be on the driver side out of the freeze plug hole. That eliminates the route problem with the top coolant hose and also puts the waterneck below the radiator fill point.

I will try to get to it this weekend and show how the details of what I am doing.

-Rich

[rx2mazda]

Looking good Rich! can't wait for another update

[rbryant]

It looks like if you machine the driver side of the head flat to relocate the waterbox there on the SRT4 casting it ends up being too thin to tap. So now I have a couple of holes for the waterneck next to the freeze plug that at a minimum I need to weld shut.

I guess I will have to pull the head and have a plate welded to it in order to relocate the waterneck.... It is a good opportunity to add head studs and modify the head gasket to enlarge the passenger side cooling holes to better match the new cooling flow.

Oh well.... I will post some pictures of the modified head when I get it done.

Does anyone know if I can have someone weld to the side of the head without it warping the headgasket surface? It is easier to avoid disassembling the head to get it milled. There is about .5" of material that extends past the side of the block on the drivers side so I am hoping it will be a simple weld up and put back on.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Does anyone know if I can have someone weld to the side of the head without it warping the headgasket surface? It is easier to avoid disassembling the head to get it milled. There is about .5" of material that extends past the side of the block on the drivers side so I am hoping it will be a simple weld up and put back on.

-Rich

I would say it could warp it, there is alot of heat produced.

[t3rse]

I would say unlikely, as TIG localizes heat pretty well.

[rbryant]

I would say unlikely, as TIG localizes heat pretty well.

Good news. I pulled it last night and will take it in today. The head also overlaps the block by half an inch there so if it warps within that it won't matter anyway.

It will be nice to have a SB chevy waterneck flange so I have practically unlimited options.

Now to look into if I need to modify the cooling passages either in the HG or head.

-Rich

[rbryant]

I still need to get the head to the shop and have the #4 cyl waterbox welded on. I did take the time over the past couple of days to call cometic and make an MLS head gasket that is designed to have the water outlet on the #4 cyl.

It is basically taking the SRT4 gasket and changing it to have the cooling holes like the Lotus head that had the outlet on #4.

They only charged me the normal price of $99 for the gasket. While it is more than the stock gasket that is a good deal for something custom. I also reduced the size of the oil feed hole in the gasket to .130 from .160 so no oil restricter is needed with it.

If anyone else ever does this then they can order my gasket from Cometic with part number: H2950SP1040S or they can change that one slightly rather than starting from the stock gasket.

Here is the final gasket (light colored holes are new or replace stock holes):
16743




Here are the pictures of what I changed and my reasoning (the dirty details):

Original 2.4 (for inlet and outlet on #1 cyl)
16747

T3 Gasket (for inlet on bottom of #1 and outlet on #4)
note that this one has the #1 cyl on the left side compared to the 2.4 gasket pictures
16748

Overlay of T3 and 2.4 gasket (scale was as close as I could get without spending too much time):
16745

Overlay of original 2.4 and modified 2.4:
16744


To keep things simple I kept the new holes symetrical with the original 2.4 holes. They are basically rotated 180 degrees on the cylinders. This is much easier to explain to them than trying to position the 2.2 holes in the 2.4 gasket (they are aligned on different sides of the larger hole in the block).

Overlay of modified 2.4 and T3:
The only real difference is that I don't have the side outlets quite as large on my version so that changes would be kept to a minimum by just stealing the hole positions from the #4 cyl and mirroring them.

The #1 cyl side holes don't even exist on the 2.0/2.4 gaskets and the 8V versions have to be extra big on the #4 to get flow. I am not sure why the T3 has such large holes perhaps someone can educate me and tell me if I am making a mistake here.

16746

Basically I am relying on the fact that the T3 gasket has the correct cooling passages for my application with the revised water output.

-Rich


-

[t3rse]

interesting

[turbovanman²]

That's really cool of Cometic to do that, did they charge you alot?

[rbryant]

That's really cool of Cometic to do that, did they charge you alot?

I covered that. ;)

They didn't charge anything extra. The standard cometic SRT4 gasket is $99.20 and that is what they charged me for the custom one.

They were very good to work with. They sent me jpgs of both gaskets and then I did the photo editing and described what I did. I then made the change to the oil feed size and shifted the back outside cooling hole on #4 (next to the oil feed hole) just slightly toward #3 because that one is not symmetrical like the rest on the SRT4 block.

Everything lines up really well. The block cooling holes are basically symmetrical to the front side. I verified this by taking a stock gasket's #3 cylinder cooling holes and aligned them to the block upside down and backwards for each cylinder. Only one of the ports on the #4 cyl was slightly off so I adjusted that. I really didn't have to as it was only 20% or so blocked but I figured why not.

Oh I also ordered it .040 thick to drop the compression slightly. It is much more expensive than the 5 layer gasket but for a custom piece it is a good deal. I am not sure the regular Cometic offers much over a 5 layer DCR style gasket but when you can go custom then it is worth the extra money.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Sorry, missed the $99 part. That is on par thought for a 3 layer version for the 8 valve and TIII.

I had to take mine out, keep leaking compression into the cooling system, as Ondonti pointed out, there really isn't a nice firing ring.

[rbryant]

I got the head back. He only charged me $50 to make the flange and weld it on so I am happy with that.

Welded Flange 1/2" threaded:

17113

The relief in the bottom really helped out. The head didn't even have to be surfaced! The head overhangs the block so there is no problem in centering up the hole. I sort of wish that he had welded the inside but his welds are strong so there is no real reason to other than overkill.
17114

1" chevy spacer so that I can use it as a water box for sensors and to feed the heater core (so that it doesn't stagnate).
17115

Spacer, stat and outlet fitting:
17116

I also have a chevy 45 degree waterneck that matches the spacer and flange perfectly so it all looks like it belongs together. That with some 40mm long allen head bolts should make everything work perfectly. Both the spacer and the waterneck have orings so no need for gaskets.

-Rich

[rbryant]

I got the Head gasket yesterday and it was exactly as I requested it.

17128

2 weeks turnaround really isn't bad considering that it was custom.

I am really impressed with Cometic's customer service! :thumb:

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

cool. i thought about having cometic make a custom gasket to use a neon head on a 2.5L block to allow proper cooling with the water pump in the stock location and the t-stat on the same side like the neon. im thinking 2.5L cometic with the neon head cooling pattern.

i also wanted them to make one with all the unused holes blocked over so all i had to do was plug the holes that overhang the block. that way i wouldnt have to make fancy plugs and make sure they are all flat. makes it easy if i pop a motor to use regular parts with little modification to install.

Brian

[rbryant]

cool. i thought about having cometic make a custom gasket to use a neon head on a 2.5L block to allow proper cooling with the water pump in the stock location and the t-stat on the same side like the neon. im thinking 2.5L cometic with the neon head cooling pattern.

i also wanted them to make one with all the unused holes blocked over so all i had to do was plug the holes that overhang the block. that way i wouldnt have to make fancy plugs and make sure they are all flat. makes it easy if i pop a motor to use regular parts with little modification to install.

Brian

It is really pretty easy to have them make a custom gasket.

For the hybrid gasket at least some of the oil drain holes would still have to be plugged. I am pretty sure that the block and head don't overlap with nice flat surfaces such that a head gasket could plug them. It would require flat surfaces that are larger than the holes on both the head and the block.

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

well either way, i just have to plug them to below the surface of the block and not have to worry about getting it perfectly smooth cause the gasket wont have voids there to let liquids through.

Brian

[raccoon]

stop raising the bar! lol

[rbryant]

Quick and overdue update:

I was trying to get the axles installed and centered a couple of days ago and...

It turns out that once I actually centered the engine (or tried to) the passenger side engine mount is actually a problem. I am using the stratus 2.4l bracket and Neon adapter and the stratus bracket actually hits the frame rail before the engine is centered... :(

I did some grinding on the bracket and mount but they would really need to move in another 3/8" or more to center the axles and then I have clearance issues with the alternator/ac belt. I couldn't even fit a rear mounted alternator or power steering pump on with it over that far.

I am reasonably certain that the frame rail isn't tweaked or anything because I had no issues with the 2.2l accessories.



I have been fighting with getting the accessories to clear the passenger frame rail throughout the install so I think it is time for a more drastic solution.

I don't want to cut the frame rail so...

I have decided to offset the entire engine by 3/4" to the drivers side!

Why 3/4" you ask? Because it is about the distance I need and it will allow me to use an off the shelf passenger side non lbody axle.

I will need to make a custom driver side axle that is 3/4" shorter than the 88 omni axle but that isn't a big deal considering that I was already running a custom passenger side axle so that I could run the larger SSG cv joints...


The only drawback I can see from this is that the driver tire to transmission clearance will be reduced a bit. Considering that I am not running tall tires (compared to a non lbody) and I can run a small wheel spacer I don't think it wil be a problem.

I have full coilovers so I can adjust the corner weights to deal with any weight distribution changes.

This also lets me run a stock stratus PS pump with plenty of clearance. I may go back to the electric MR2 pump as a future upgrade but for now I just need to get things working!

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Interesting. Everyone is getting work done, :thumb:

[A.J.]

If you need someone to lengthen/shorten axles, I've got a place in Phoenix. Call me on Monday at the shop and I can give you their number (that's where the number is). I can have them pick up and deliver but I think you need to be a shop for that. If you need to, you can drop it off with me as oppose to driving to Phoenix. I'm volunteering tomorrow with Operation Homefront so I won't be at the shop.

A.J.

[rbryant]

If you need someone to lengthen/shorten axles, I've got a place in Phoenix. Call me on Monday at the shop and I can give you their number (that's where the number is). I can have them pick up and deliver but I think you need to be a shop for that. If you need to, you can drop it off with me as oppose to driving to Phoenix. I'm volunteering tomorrow with Operation Homefront so I won't be at the shop.

A.J.

Let me see what the axle guy I was working with can do.

I am hoping that there is a driver side shaft from a GM car that will be the right length. If there is then I can just use a regular daytona axle on the passenger side and the GM/Dodge hybrid shaft on the drivers side. That will be pretty cheap to have built.

If that doesn't work out I might talk to your guy. Thanks for the info and help!

-Rich

[t3rse]

I've said that before...you can't put accessories in the back because of the frame rail. I was able to make everything fit with my custom passenger mount but things are still tight (there is no way to take the motor bracket off with the engine in the car). I wish I had swapped into a shadow....

[rbryant]

I've said that before...you can't put accessories in the back because of the frame rail. I was able to make everything fit with my custom passenger mount but things are still tight (there is no way to take the motor bracket off with the engine in the car). I wish I had swapped into a shadow....

From looking at things shifting the entire engine by 3/4" solves all of the accessory problems. I am able to get the stratus mounting bracket off with the engine in the car but it requires the front mount to be disconnected and to get the bolts out the engine has to be lowered for one bolt and jacked way up for the other.

The driver side mount ends up nearly against the rail on the drivers side but I am able to get a daytona axle in with about 1/3" of inward plunge which is pretty reasonable. If I have to I can always modify the driver side mount with an offset so that it doesn't hit the driver side rail.

For the rear accessory I still have the MR2 electric power steering pump and the bracket that bolts it to the SRT4 block. I am not sure if I will need to use it now though the PS pulley has about 3/8" of clearance after the offset.

The shadow is surely a much easier swap but I just like the charger better. I think it might be partly the challenge of it (I am sick and twisted that way). :)

-Rich

[A.J.]

Let me see what the axle guy I was working with can do.

I am hoping that there is a driver side shaft from a GM car that will be the right length. If there is then I can just use a regular daytona axle on the passenger side and the GM/Dodge hybrid shaft on the drivers side. That will be pretty cheap to have built.

If that doesn't work out I might talk to your guy. Thanks for the info and help!

-Rich

Ya, just let me know.

I had the axles in my van lengthened 1" on each side. Not by the people I'll be sending you to. I don't know what was up with my van. That's the problem with buying a vehicle for $50, with no drivetrain, and not knowing the history. For whatever reason they kept pulling apart. Ever since I got them lengthened an inch, I haven't had a problem. It wasn't too expensive either. I'd have to dig up the receipt.

A.J.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Hey rich, how much right steer are you going to have ?
Just picturing all the rub marks on the trans with wider tired and the trans in the stock location

[rbryant]

Hey rich, how much right steer are you going to have ?
Just picturing all the rub marks on the trans with wider tired and the trans in the stock location

Not sure yet. I will have to draw some diagrams to see how much it will matter.

I will also put a tire on with the engine shifted and see when it hits.

There are always compromises...

My initial thoughts were that the taller tires would be just as much of a problem than wider. The daytona comes with a 205/55/16 in some models which are over 1.5" taller so I am hoping that I will still be ok.

I guess it depends on where the tire hits the tranny.

-Rich

[contraption22]

So you are saying there is no room for a rear mounted alternator with this swap?

[rbryant]

So you are saying there is no room for a rear mounted alternator with this swap?

It doesn't fit for me without offsetting the engine. Once I do that I prefer the rear mounted PS. Surprisingly, the stock lbody PS line works with the stratus pump if you just slightly bend it.

Did ohiorob's car run any accessories? I can't see any in the pictures...

I solved the rear accessory problem with the electric PS setup but it was still pretty tight on the front side. I think it would be possible to run a v-belt AC/alternator setup if I had to though. The AC compressor form a 1G neon could be made to work along with some alternator and the 2.2/2.5l AC idler pulley and a 1G neon crank pulley....

V belts just look ancient though so the idea doesn't appeal to me. I am not sure if a 4 rib belt would clear things or not.

Anyway I will keep people posted on the tranny to tire clearance and if we can make an axle that short on the driver side without going full custom.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

Any updates on this project? I have been following closely. :)

[rbryant]

Any updates on this project? I have been following closely. :)

I should get the totally finished intake manifold back in the next couple of days. It now fits and clears everything. After that is installed I can finish wiring up the injectors, make a vacuum harness, etc.

The next big thing is that the engine has to be shifted to the driver side about half an inch in order for the accessories to clear things. That means a slight axle mod.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

What are your plans for your A/C condensor and intercooler on this car?

[Spycker]

i think ill do a 2.4 swap now.

[rbryant]

What are your plans for your A/C condensor and intercooler on this car?

It has a large front mount intercooler (I think it is 24x12x3).

It has an aftermarket AC condensor from ackits.com (small efficient crossflow for $75). The condensor will need new lines for the Stratus compressor but I haven't gotten to that yet. I used it with the 2.2 engine though and it worked well.

-Rich

[rbryant]

i think ill do a 2.4 swap now.

It is a lot of work.

The intake manifold is much tighter than you might think. Even with the super short runners I only clear the fan shroud by about 1/8".

It does look really nice in there though and should be very reliable.

I need to post up some pictures of my coil on plug setup this week...

-Rich

[Turbo224]

It has an aftermarket AC condensor from ackits.com (small efficient crossflow for $75). The condensor will need new lines for the Stratus compressor but I haven't gotten to that yet. I used it with the 2.2 engine though and it worked well.

-Rich

Is the condenser made for the Charger, or is it Universal? I want to do the SRT swap into an Omni, but I just don't think I could live without AC. I know there probably wont be enough room to squeeze it all in there unless I get super creative.

[rbryant]

Is the condenser made for the Charger, or is it Universal? I want to do the SRT swap into an Omni, but I just don't think I could live without AC. I know there probably wont be enough room to squeeze it all in there unless I get super creative.

Universal.

I have posted info on it before so you should be able to find it if you search for posts from me with "condenser" in them.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39975&highlight=condenser

-Rich

[Turbo224]

Universal.

I have posted info on it before so you should be able to find it if you search for posts from me with "condenser" in them.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39975&highlight=condenser

-Rich


That's a good thread, thanks for the link. :thumb: It almost gives me hope for my project...

[rbryant]

Here are some new pictures.

I added a Coil on Plug plate with 2.7l charger coils and a plate that bolts to the side of the head to hold my catch can and wastegate actuator.


The plate is 1/4" thick so I could thread it with a M6 bolt in order to securely attach the coils via a 3/8" aluminum standoff. I made holes between the coils so that the wires can be tucked under the plate and exit on the driver side of the head. I added 4 individual coil drivers to my megasquirt but for now they are driven in batch fire mode.

I really just didn't like how close the SRT4 coil is to the exhaust manifold and I thought that a COP setup could work quite well.
27236

Zoomed out to where you can also see the wastegate actuator bracket and catch can along with the finished (but not yet powdercoated intake manifold).
27237

-Rich

[Mopar318]

Here are some new pictures.

I added a Coil on Plug plate with 2.7l charger coils and a plate that bolts to the side of the head to hold my catch can and wastegate actuator.


The plate is 1/4" thick so I could thread it with a M6 bolt in order to securely attach the coils via a 3/8" aluminum standoff. I made holes between the coils so that the wires can be tucked under the plate and exit on the driver side of the head. I added 4 individual coil drivers to my megasquirt but for now they are driven in batch fire mode.

I really just didn't like how close the SRT4 coil is to the exhaust manifold and I thought that a COP setup could work quite well.
27236

Zoomed out to where you can also see the wastegate actuator bracket and catch can along with the finished (but not yet powdercoated intake manifold).
27237

-Rich

Are you going to be running the MS3 or MSII with the sequential driver mod (Expensive!!)

Can you just run the Coil packs on batch fire? I thought about doing this. Do the 2.7 coils fit perfect?

The intake looks sweet BTW!

[turboshad]

I made holes between the coils so that the wires can be tucked under the plate and exit on the driver side of the head. I added 4 individual coil drivers to my megasquirt but for now they are driven in batch fire mode.

I really just didn't like how close the SRT4 coil is to the exhaust manifold and I thought that a COP setup could work quite well.

-Rich

That looks great Rich. If it were me I would slot those holes back to the plug hole so the connectors could slide through and plate could be removed. How much stand off do those coils give you when connected to the plugs? Is that an SRT4 head or just the VC?

I've been looking into COP this week as well. Have you see the jbperf boards? With the 4 channel board you would have the 4 drivers (which you already have) as well as ignition drivers for high impedance injectors. If you are running low impedance you can use the P&H board in conjunction. With the addition of a cam sensor input these two would allow the ability for sequential ignition and injection.

http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html

http://jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html

I have been using the P&H board from day one and will be building a cam circuit this winter to go sequential injection. As mentioned I would also like to look into a COP setup in which case I would purchase the other board.


Are you going to be running the MS3 or MSII with the sequential driver mod (Expensive!!)

Can you just run the Coil packs on batch fire? I thought about doing this. Do the 2.7 coils fit perfect?

The intake looks sweet BTW!

Why is it expensive to run MSII sequential? If it's just ignition he could already do it with the 4 drivers he has made. Just fire them off of spark A,B,C, and D. You would also need to use tuner studio.

Any coil could be run batch fire or wasted spark but you lose some of the benefit of a COP since you are sparking twice as often as you need to.

[Mopar318]

That looks great Rich. If it were me I would slot those holes back to the plug hole so the connectors could slide through and plate could be removed. How much stand off do those coils give you when connected to the plugs? Is that an SRT4 head or just the VC?

I've been looking into COP this week as well. Have you see the jbperf boards? With the 4 channel board you would have the 4 drivers (which you already have) as well as ignition drivers for high impedance injectors. If you are running low impedance you can use the P&H board in conjunction. With the addition of a cam sensor input these two would allow the ability for sequential ignition and injection.

http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html

http://jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html

I have been using the P&H board from day one and will be building a cam circuit this winter to go sequential injection. As mentioned I would also like to look into a COP setup in which case I would purchase the other board.



Why is it expensive to run MSII sequential? If it's just ignition he could already do it with the 4 drivers he has made. Just fire them off of spark A,B,C, and D. You would also need to use tuner studio.

Any coil could be run batch fire or wasted spark but you lose some of the benefit of a COP since you are sparking twice as often as you need to.

I wasnt sure how he built the megasquirt. When I was looking into the sequential mod, it was going to be close to 300 just for the parts.

Using the sequential injection kit and P/H board.

http://www.symtechlabs.com/catalog/megasquirt-injector-drivers-c-23_35.html

I decided to go with a set of stage 2 SRT injectors so I didnt need a P/H board. I know there are a bunch of ways to set it up but I am not an electronics expert.:o

Edit: I didnt see that he said he already added the 4 coild drivers. My bad.:thumb:

[rbryant]

Are you going to be running the MS3 or MSII with the sequential driver mod (Expensive!!)

Can you just run the Coil packs on batch fire? I thought about doing this. Do the 2.7 coils fit perfect?

The intake looks sweet BTW!

I am just going to run a glen's garage coil driver board (4 drivers) with the main board driving two coils per driver. I did have to double the input resistor size so that I don't overload the processor but it shouldn't be a problem.

They will just be batch fire for now. The 2.4l caliper coils will work as will the 2.7l coils. The boots on the 2.7l coils are 1/4" longer but they are both fine.

-Rich

[rbryant]

That looks great Rich. If it were me I would slot those holes back to the plug hole so the connectors could slide through and plate could be removed. How much stand off do those coils give you when connected to the plugs? Is that an SRT4 head or just the VC?



I have a Neon 10 pin electrical connector that connects into the coils. So I can just pop the pins out of the connector to feed them through the hole in the plate. It makes for a smaller hole in the plate so no dirt can get through it and I can still remove them from the plate if I need to. Normally the wiring and plate would come off together anyway but with the connector I can separate them.

It is a complete SRT4 engine.




I've been looking into COP this week as well. Have you see the jbperf boards? With the 4 channel board you would have the 4 drivers (which you already have) as well as ignition drivers for high impedance injectors. If you are running low impedance you can use the P&H board in conjunction. With the addition of a cam sensor input these two would allow the ability for sequential ignition and injection.

http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html

http://jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html

I have been using the P&H board from day one and will be building a cam circuit this winter to go sequential injection. As mentioned I would also like to look into a COP setup in which case I would purchase the other board.



I have the P&H board but I have the glen's garage coil driver board. The coil driver board I have is basically the same thing as what Jean made.




Why is it expensive to run MSII sequential? If it's just ignition he could already do it with the 4 drivers he has made. Just fire them off of spark A,B,C, and D. You would also need to use tuner studio.

Any coil could be run batch fire or wasted spark but you lose some of the benefit of a COP since you are sparking twice as often as you need to.

Understood. I can always change it later on. I just have an MSI board for now. I was more worried about relocating the coils than getting sequential ignition. I may go to MS2 or MS3 later on. My setup can change to sequential by simply changing to more drivers and rewiring the coil drivers and P&H board.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

That thing is looking good. Any idea when you plan to have it running? How difficult has the megasquirt setup been so far? I am electrically handicapped so I am trying to learn now before I start my 2.4 swap.

[Mopar318]

That thing is looking good. Any idea when you plan to have it running? How difficult has the megasquirt setup been so far? I am electrically handicapped so I am trying to learn now before I start my 2.4 swap.

Wiring it is very simple. For Inputs you have Crank sensor, IAT, CLT, TPS. For outputs you have the coil, injectors, and IAC valve. If you run sequential injection you use a cam sensor as well.

I have not go to the tuning part yet.:D

[Turbo224]

Wiring it is very simple. For Inputs you have Crank sensor, IAT, CLT, TPS. For outputs you have the coil, injectors, and IAC valve. If you run sequential injection you use a cam sensor as well.

I have not go to the tuning part yet.:D

I guess that's what worries me a little more, the tuning. I can follow a wiring diagram and do basic soldering, but building the circuit board and figuring out how to tune it worries me the most.

[rbryant]

I guess that's what worries me a little more, the tuning. I can follow a wiring diagram and do basic soldering, but building the circuit board and figuring out how to tune it worries me the most.

I haven't had mine running yet but the tuning should be easier than with a SMEC or LM given that it has Wideband feedback and some auto tuning features.

Turboshad has his running very well so perhaps he can add his 2cents. Hopefully he can help me if I get stuck. :)

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

tuning is cake with a MS.

its all realtime with wideband feedback. you can also use things like tunerstudio or megalogviewer to take a datalog and analyze it and change the VE table for you for fuel tuning.

timing is a little tougher but still not bad.

i have a friend with a MS on his 420a turbo eclipse and help him tune it.

Brian

[turboshad]

Understood. I can always change it later on. ... My setup can change to sequential by simply changing to more drivers and rewiring the coil drivers and P&H board.

-Rich

That's what I love about MS. I think if you ever want sequential you will need MSII. That is what I am running and I think it is a worthy upgrade. But if you have the extra $$ at the time then definitely go MSIII.


I haven't had mine running yet but the tuning should be easier than with a SMEC or LM given that it has Wideband feedback and some auto tuning features.

Turboshad has his running very well so perhaps he can add his 2cents. Hopefully he can help me if I get stuck. :)

-Rich

Tuning with MS is like any other standalone starting from scratch. Once running I feel it is easier than a chipped SMEC or something similar. As long as the MS is built and wired properly, getting it started should be a 1/2hr affair with idle coming shortly after. That is really the hardest part. I would suggest paying for Tunerstudio to take advantage of the autotune which is better than the Megatune version. You will get other advantages with Tunerstudio as well. Autotune will get you quite close with only a need to tweek and smooth out after. As I've posted before I use headphones for ignition tuning and I feel they are the equivalent of a WB O2 in the ignition world. They make a safe ignition map quite easy.


Rich, did you put any thought into sealing the plug holes? I think I want to build that into my adapter plate as I wash my engine regularly. If you machined the plate from thicker material with an O-ring to seal on the VC and the appropriate hole on the coil side that should do it.

[rbryant]

Rich, did you put any thought into sealing the plug holes? I think I want to build that into my adapter plate as I wash my engine regularly. If you machined the plate from thicker material with an O-ring to seal on the VC and the appropriate hole on the coil side that should do it.

The COPs have a rubber seal ring on them that is larger than the hole in the COP plate. With a 1/4" plate and 3/8" spacer the rubber seal compresses downward on the plate slightly to create a seal. It might not be 100% water tight if you ran a constant river of water over it but it does seal.

The plate goes around the existing lips on the valve cover (the valve cover is not modified at all) so no water can get in that way. I am pretty sure that the valve cover plug boot lips actually stick up just past the plate by 1/16" or so. This is from memory so I will double check. If they don't then I could just make the plate out of 1/8" aluminum instead of 1/4" and it would solve that issue.

I can take some closer pictures if you would like. This was a prototype so I can probably make it slightly better.

These already exist on ebay but of course I thought I could do it better and have it my way so I made my own....

Anyway if you want one I can probably make a few more. I could have gone probably 1/16" (1/32" on each side) bigger on the plate around the holes for a tighter seal but it would have required filing a bevel all the way around the edges due to the bevel on the valve cover rather than just dropping it in. I may put a small bead of RTV on mine to seal it up.

-Rich

[rbryant]

Here are some more COP pictures and a general state of the engine bay pictures:

COP, spacer, bolt, seal, etc
27304

With a 1/4" plate the lip is probably 1/16" above the plate.
27305
27313

Everything sealed up.
27306

There were slight gaps on the plate/valvecover but for a 2d waterjet cut this is about as good as I could do. I might make it slightly closer if I do another.

The valve cover is bolted down under the plate. The bolts in the plate thread into only the plate and don't double as valve cover bolts except for the driver side middle one.
27310

I did use the driver side middle VC bolt to hold the plate down. I turns out that two of the coil spacers stacked is the perfect height above the gromet to make it all work. This was the best option because I wanted to use the plate as a wire cover and I wanted it as secure as possible.

I was going to mount the can farther to the back but then I decided I might need the cam sensor for megasquirt sequential injection someday and that the can bracket shouldn't prevent that... This way I can just drill a hole in the bracket, put a spacer on the cam (the same thickness as the bracket) and then still use the sensor.
27307

Intake/Rad view.
27308

[Spycker]

It is a lot of work.

The intake manifold is much tighter than you might think. Even with the super short runners I only clear the fan shroud by about 1/8".

It does look really nice in there though and should be very reliable.

I need to post up some pictures of my coil on plug setup this week...

-Rich


damn, my friend sold his car to the junk yard, they came and picked it up. what a douche friend, he told me he was gonna hold it off for me :(

[contraption22]

Forgive me if you explained this somewhere, I searched but could not find it. Is there a reason that the alternator would not be able to fit in stock SRT-4 location in an L-body? I don't plan on using PS or A/C in my swap.

[rbryant]

Forgive me if you explained this somewhere, I searched but could not find it. Is there a reason that the alternator would not be able to fit in stock SRT-4 location in an L-body? I don't plan on using PS or A/C in my swap.

On my car with the axles centered the alternator pulley hits the passenger frame rail.

Actually my PS pulley also hit the frame rail and while it is a larger pulley it is also on the inside belt so it doesn't come as close to the frame rail.

I tried shifting the engine to the drivers side but then the transmission was too close to the kframe on the driver rear of the tranny. The axle boots were also too close to the kframe so it overall didn't work out.


If you only want the alternator just run a Neon alternator in the stratus alternator mount and it will not have any clearance issues unless it is with the intake manifold to alternator bracket. If you have an intake manifold clearance issue you can trim the alternator bracket like I did to fix it.

A 2gen neon underdrive pulley would work well for that setup because the setup changes the alternator to work on the outside pulley instead of the inside one and the outside pulley is larger. The underdrive pulley reduces the size of both pulleys on the crank so that the outside one smaller bringing it back to the size of the stock inside pulley so it is probably close to the correct size and not overdriven. I don't think it is possible to run a front accessory on the inside belt because it would hit the timing belt tensioner (or atleast the cover).


I did end up having a clearance issue with the stratus AC compressor pulley where the frame rail connects to the bottom of the radiator support. It clears if you angle the engine forward but then it starts to affect the cv boot to kframe clearance again.

I need to check and see if the neon AC compressor would clear there or not. It is a larger OD pulley on the compressor but it is narrow due to either a vbelt on the 1G or a 4 rib on the 2g instead of the 6 rib on the stratus.

Overall I am probably going to be evil and clearance the metal on the car a little because I need to run both the AC and alternator on the same outside belt. If I am going to do that I like the 6 rib belt better than a 4 rib belt or an old school v-belt.

-Rich

[contraption22]

I will likely be running aftermarket electronics, so I guess I could use a small aftermarket alternator with an external regulator.

[rbryant]

I will likely be running aftermarket electronics, so I guess I could use a small aftermarket alternator with an external regulator.

The size of the alternator doesn't really matter. It is the fact that the pulley hits the rail and you can't move it inward.

If you put it on in the stratus bracket then you can use the normal neon or stratus alternator. The TD alternator has wider mounts so I think that would need a caravan alternator bracket...

-Rich

[contraption22]

The size of the alternator doesn't really matter. It is the fact that the pulley hits the rail and you can't move it inward.

If you put it on in the stratus bracket then you can use the normal neon or stratus alternator. The TD alternator has wider mounts so I think that would need a caravan alternator bracket...

-Rich

Perhaps with the smaller aftermarket alternator, I would be able to tuck it in closer to the engine, and with it being the only accessory I would be running, I could run it off the PS V-belt grove on the crank pulley.

[rbryant]

Perhaps with the smaller aftermarket alternator, I would be able to tuck it in closer to the engine, and with it being the only accessory I would be running, I could run it off the PS V-belt grove on the crank pulley.

Not without a custom crank pulley because the PS v groove is on the outside of the pulley (designed for a front PS). The stratus rear PS is a 4 rib v belt.

The best you could do would be to run a 3 groove belt on the 4 groove pulleys and offset the alternator in by one groove.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

I have a couple MS questions for ya. What are you using for an engine wiring harness? I know you can buy a generic wiring harness built to work with the MS system, but it requires you to splice in all the factory sensors. Could you just use an engine harness from an srt4 and eluminate all the stuff you dont need? Also, what are you using to power non engine related electronics such as the lighting and radio? I assume you could just leave the stock wiring and lm in the car for this sort of stuff. How exactly are you planning on doing it?

[rbryant]

I have a couple MS questions for ya. What are you using for an engine wiring harness? I know you can buy a generic wiring harness built to work with the MS system, but it requires you to splice in all the factory sensors. Could you just use an engine harness from an srt4 and eluminate all the stuff you dont need? Also, what are you using to power non engine related electronics such as the lighting and radio? I assume you could just leave the stock wiring and lm in the car for this sort of stuff. How exactly are you planning on doing it?

The megasquirt wiring is 100% custom for my build. I based it on an 88 tbi harness that I added extras to. The 50 pin bulkhead gave me enough extra pins so that all MS wires go through the normally unused/empty bulkhead pins.

[Turbo224]

The megasquirt wiring is 100% custom for my build. I based it on an 88 tbi harness that I added extras to. The 50 pin bulkhead gave me enough extra pins so that all MS wires go through the normally unused/empty bulkhead pins.

So you started with a 88 tbi engine harness and modified it using the extra pins in the connector? So are the wires from the MS box going directly to the bulkhead plug? This is the plug that is in the back drivers side of the engine bay, correct? Sorry for all the wiring questions, I have always struggled with electronics....:confused:

[rbryant]

So you started with a 88 tbi engine harness and modified it using the extra pins in the connector? So are the wires from the MS box going directly to the bulkhead plug? This is the plug that is in the back drivers side of the engine bay, correct? Sorry for all the wiring questions, I have always struggled with electronics....:confused:

Yea I upgraded the dash to 88 omni wiring so that I had 50 pins on the bulkhead connector instead of the stock 40 pin connector (the connector between the engine wiring and internal wiring at the firewall).

I then kept the original 88 omni locations for the wires that were used and then I stole wires from another 88 omni wiring harness (dash and engine) to populate the empty slots in the 50 pin bulkhead. That gave me 20 or so (I can't remember exactly how many) extra wires so that I could connect the wires that need to go from the engine to the megasquirt through a single connector. These wires would normally have gone to the SMEC but because the MS is not rated for engine heat I had to have a way to get the wires inside of the car.

I also added some neon 14 pin neon engine connectors (stolen from under the PDC) so that I can disconnect the Megasquirt from the bulkhead.

I also added more of the 14 pin neon connectors between the main harness and the sensors. One was for things like injectors and coils, starter solenoid, etc (I am running a coil on plug setup with 4 coil drivers). The other 14 pin connector is all of the other low voltage sensors (CPS, TPS, CTS, MAT, etc). I just like to be able to unplug portions of the engine if I remove it, etc.

I bought the megasquirt harness from one of the megasquirt vendors but most of my wiring is actually from the 88 omni harnesses and that harness will probably only go to the 14pin connectors right before the inside bulkhead connector.

I also took out all of the fusible links and replaced them with a neon PDC (power distribution center) from a 1G neon. That way I have real fuses and all of the relays are in a single box.

Currently the only external relay that I have in the engine bay is for the electrical power steering pump. For that I used dual concorde 70amp ABS relays (overkill but the wires were only 12ga each which couldn't really handle the 70 amps).

The concorde ABS relays would make an excellent headlamp relay for people upgrading their headlamps. They are higher capacity than the normal relays, they are almost as compact because they don't require a real relay box, and they are practically free at the junkyard.

It was an awful lot of work and not something for a novice. I spent more than a couple of hours on schematics and even longer soldering and shrink wrapping connections. Most wires all color match with just a few exceptions when going through connectors.

I have schematics in a spreadsheet for everything that I can post if you want to see them. I was confusing myself when I changed some things when I added the COP wiring and I couldn't remember what I originally did so having real schematics became a requirement for me.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

Thanks for the detailed info, that definitely help me make more sense of the project. I dont have a problem with the actual wiring, I am more worried about things like building the MS circuit board, and adding in relays and such where needed. I definitely see the advantage to having everything wired into the main bulkhead, along with the extra connectors. That will certainly make things look closer to stock, and be a whole lot easier to remove if needed. Could you have simply removed the factory engine harness and run the wiring from the MS board through the firewall and connected it all directly to the engine sensors? And then just left the rest of the factory wiring alone? If you wouldn't mind, I would love to see you schematics for this.

[rbryant]

Thanks for the detailed info, that definitely help me make more sense of the project. I dont have a problem with the actual wiring, I am more worried about things like building the MS circuit board, and adding in relays and such where needed. I definitely see the advantage to having everything wired into the main bulkhead, along with the extra connectors. That will certainly make things look closer to stock, and be a whole lot easier to remove if needed. Could you have simply removed the factory engine harness and run the wiring from the MS board through the firewall and connected it all directly to the engine sensors? And then just left the rest of the factory wiring alone? If you wouldn't mind, I would love to see you schematics for this.

It would be possible to use a factory harness and cut off the SMEC connector and then add connect those to megasquirt through the bulkhead. The bulkhead doesn't have wires for most of the unused sockets so you need to add wires from another bulkhead to it.

There are some other issues like the fact that the tach signal on my engine has to come from megasquirt instead of the coils because it runs 4 coils instead of just one so that means the wire has to come from the inside of the car instead of the engine bay. I am also using all aftermarket gauges so that further changes things.

I more or less did what you are saying but I stripped out a little more and removed the fusible links. The headlights and turn signals for instance were not modified in the 88 harness (other than that I added sidemarker signals to match the charger because the omni didn't have them).

If I was doing an 8V swap I would have started with a turbo harness and reused most of the wiring like you say. It is an SRT4 swap though so none of the wires were the right length and I ended up rebuilding most of the wiring. I also used better injector connectors, and needed the SRT4 wires for the CPS, 2.2l starter connections, etc so everything was a mix of things and a lot of work.

-Rich

[Turbo224]

Well it certainly sounds like you have put a ton of time and effort into the wiring harness. My biggest worry with this swap is that I will get everything pieced together fairly easy other than the wiring, and then I will be left with a project that is almost complete, but still wont run. Hopefully I can gather enough info from other people's hard work to make my swap go easier. :thumb:

[rbryant]

Well it certainly sounds like you have put a ton of time and effort into the wiring harness. My biggest worry with this swap is that I will get everything pieced together fairly easy other than the wiring, and then I will be left with a project that is almost complete, but still wont run. Hopefully I can gather enough info from other people's hard work to make my swap go easier. :thumb:

Yea well I never said that I wasn't worried about that. :)

I think everyone has that concern at some point. I have that concern even with stock electronics when I do a new build.

Everyone seems to have good luck with MS and I have had it running on the stimulator so hopefully it won't be too bad to get it fired up. Getting it to start is more of a concern than actually tuning the thing.

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

tyler, if you are most concerned with getting it running, you can always leave the factory wiring intact, then wire the MS up to control just the engine totally separate from the existing wiring, and then cleaning it up once its running.

thats usually how my projects end up.

i can wire something up to run in a flash for a proof of concept and then now that im motivated seeing it run and do a burnout, then tackle the monotonous part of cleaning up all the wiring and bundling it into one harness.

personally, id start with a TBI or carb harness (depending on the car) and wire the MS and then pull out the extra wires and combine any wire runs possible. going though the factory connector is going to be nice and neat but not essential. search the JY for cars with grommets for the wiring that arent molded into the harness. then you can hole saw one hole, run the wiring through your new factory style grommet and pop it in. loom the rest or tuck the wiring that runs in the same location as the factory stuff and fasten it down and you are done.

Brian

[Turbo224]

tyler, if you are most concerned with getting it running, you can always leave the factory wiring intact, then wire the MS up to control just the engine totally separate from the existing wiring, and then cleaning it up once its running.

thats usually how my projects end up.

i can wire something up to run in a flash for a proof of concept and then now that im motivated seeing it run and do a burnout, then tackle the monotonous part of cleaning up all the wiring and bundling it into one harness.

personally, id start with a TBI or carb harness (depending on the car) and wire the MS and then pull out the extra wires and combine any wire runs possible. going though the factory connector is going to be nice and neat but not essential. search the JY for cars with grommets for the wiring that arent molded into the harness. then you can hole saw one hole, run the wiring through your new factory style grommet and pop it in. loom the rest or tuck the wiring that runs in the same location as the factory stuff and fasten it down and you are done.

Brian

I believe that's what I am going to end up doing. I think that will be the easiest way to get it up and running, and then I can clean everything up from there. I was thinking about buying this prebuilt harness. http://www.symtechlabs.com/catalog/complete-420aneon-megasquirt-ems-kit-p-57.html It is made for a 420A MS conversion, but it is pretty close to what I am going to need. The same company sells this for $70 cheaper on ebay, so that's pretty reasonable if I can get it to work.

[86seeS]

Anymore progress on this im wanting to start my own srt swap glhs soon been gathering parts

[GLHNSLHT2]

are you making and selling the COP plates? I'm going to be dropping a 2.4 into my New Yorker at some point and would like to go COP.

[rbryant]

Anymore progress on this im wanting to start my own srt swap glhs soon been gathering parts

I haven't done much lately. I didn't beat the heat with the projects and it is 110 out now so not much fun to work on.

I need to get the exhaust welded up and then I can start playing with megasquirt to fire it up.

-Rich

---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ----------


are you making and selling the COP plates? I'm going to be dropping a 2.4 into my New Yorker at some point and would like to go COP.

I can make them if you are interested. There are some available on ebay, etc but I wanted the channel fully covered for the wiring, etc so I made my own.

Let me check what my price was on it tomorrow and I will let you know what the cost would be. It also requires a few spacers for the coils, etc but not a big deal and it came out looking really clean.

-Rich

[rbryant]

I was having an annoying problem where my aftermarket wheel center caps were being pushed off by the rear grease caps when installed without spacers.

The problem became worse when I did my most recent brake update which uses 14" rear disc backing plates along with a 95-99 neon rear disc and a 1/8" spacer behind the rotor to convert it to the correct 89-94 rotor hat height. Previously I used a 1/8" spacer but it appears that the Lebaron hubs stick the dust cap out farther than the lbody hubs did...

I ran through a junkyard looking for lower profile dust caps that have the same diameter as ours...

Strangely the only car I found at the yard with lower profile cap in the same diameter as our rears was a F*rd Festiva rear cap....

I took them from the lowly Festiva and went back home (they didn't even make me pay for them).

I had to modify my axle stubs slightly to use them but it wasn't a big deal and I no longer have any issues!


The process is:

Take a hacksaw and cut off the non threaded section of the rear axle stub (1/4" or so). The cotter pin hole is well into the threaded portion of the stub so the non threaded portion is not functional (it was probably for manufacturing). I was going to get the cutoff wheel out but it cut easily enough with a hacksaw and the step kept the blade straight so I didn't bother.

I then cleaned it up a bit with the grinding wheel and wire wheel and simply installed the whole assembly and used the Festiva cap. I left about 1/32" of gap on the Festiva cap rather than pounding it all the way on because it is really made for a smaller nut and might interfere if installed all the way. Plus the cap would be harder to remove than the stock one if pounded all the way in because the Festiva hub is smaller and the lip is smaller than the dodge cap. I believe the Festiva cap might actually be slightly larger than our cap so it fits very securely.

Here is a picture with the cap installed. I was going to take a picture of the stub but my camera battery died.

Unfortunately the other hub that I had to compare it against had longer studs (92 ford taurus front studs) installed so it makes it hard to compare directly but you get the idea.

[Edit:]
I also just noticed that the Lebaron hub (long studs) actually sticks the dust cap out farther than the Lbody hub (short stock studs). That must have also contributed to my problem...
32405

With the axle stub mod and the shorter cap I now have a 3/8" shorter center cap and don't need a spacer to run a grease cap.


My rear brake setup is getting crazy:

14" rear disc backing plates.
Neon rotors with a 1/8" spacer behind the rotor (2lbs lighter than the normal 14" discs and 5lbs lighter than the vented rears),
92 Ford Taurus front studs
Ford Festiva grease cap (I think it was a 1G Festiva but I wasn't paying close attention).
I decided to go with the regular 14" brake 34mm calipers (same as the neon calipers) instead of upgrading to the 36mm Intrepid calipers given that it is an lbody and I don't expect to need the larger rear caliper piston. If it was a non lbody I would probably have put on the larger bolt on Intrepid calipers.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

So it runs?

[rbryant]

So it runs?

Of course not.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Of course not.

-Rich

Bummer.

[contraption22]

My SRT-4 has tapered grease caps on the rear. Wouldn't that work?

[rbryant]

My SRT-4 has tapered grease caps on the rear. Wouldn't that work?

The Neon caps were the first ones I looked at and they are a larger diameter so they don't work.

The SRT4 hub is setup for a different type of bearing with a larger diameter grease cap. The Neons all have an integrated control arm/spindle for the IRS so they won't work. The PT does have an axle stub but the bolt pattern is just slightly different.

The PT brake setup could easily be adapted but the backing plates for the 14" discs are nicer IMO because they are a cast plate. The Neon/PT stuff has a cast center but uses a stamped steel dust shield that connects the parking brake hardware (and it is actually slightly heavier). I would rather not have the dust shield because I don't live in an area where my brakes get wet and the shield just hurts cooling.

Everything is broken down in this post:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?53183-91-Spirit-rear-brakes-on-lbody&p=734155&viewfull=1#post734155

The Neon spindle pattern is the same as the TD one but surprisingly the PT is slightly different. I was going to go with that setup but then when I got thr PT axle stubs they were different. :(

It could be ovaled out but I decided not to do it that way. The only thing I really liked better was the Neon/PT hub which had a more sealed bearing, shorter grease cap and was a little lighter. I should have weighed the hub/stub combos. I have them and can do that if interested.


I have a pair of PT axle stubs if anyone wants to adapt them.


Edit/Side note:

I had previously assumed that the Lbody and Lebaron/Daytona rear hubs were the same as I used them with rear discs before and they are compatible but...

Notice the height that the hub extends between the grease cap and rotor mounting face(Lbody left, Lebaron right):

32411

This was not included in my 3/8" measurement which was based on the grease caps themselves not which hub was used. The picture is misleading and I should have taken it with the Festiva cap on the long stud Lebaron hub with a Lebaron hub and tall cap because that is actually what I used... Everything is installed now so I cant take the picture the other way.

It appears that the later Lebaron hubs actually stick the grease cap out farther than the lbody hub... I never noticed that until just now looking at the pictures after the fact. I thought that the neon rotor was why I needed a larger spacer when I changed the setup but it was actually the Lebaron hub... I actually swapped the hubs at the same time as everything else because I had installed the longer studs ahead of time as a previous project/experiment... I will have to look into this a bit more but overall even with the Lebaron hub my problem is solved. If I was doing it again I might have used the lbody hub. I am not sure it would have helped because the axle nut is what limits the clearance anyway and the Festiva cap couldn't be pushed all the way in on the lbody hub or the grease cap would touch the nut... It now makes sense because I didn't notice the nut being as close on the Lebaron hub but sort of dismissed it on my final install.

I also wonder if there is a weight difference between the lbody and Lebaron/Daytona hubs.

So I now realize that if you need to gain about 1/8" of cap clearance you can just use lbody (rear drum) hubs with stock grease caps instead of Lebaron/Daytona hubs. Or if you need more than 1/8" then use the Festiva caps and cut off the non threaded portion of the axle stub...

-Rich

[minigts]

Does the Lebaron actually use the extra space or can you just swap caps? Just curious.

[rbryant]

Does the Lebaron actually use the extra space or can you just swap caps? Just curious.

In looking at it and thinking about it some more...

They must have put the bottom lip on the rear disc hub to help keep the rotor more hub centric so it is probably best to use the rear disc hub... With that said however I didn't have any problems using the rear drum hub with the rear disc setup. The rear drums must have been thinner and used the same 57.1mm center as the wheels.

My previous setup was a lbody hub with vented rear brakes so you CAN just swap them. I know that the axle stubs are actually the same part number.

When I put on the Lebaron hub I noticed that I lost 1/8" or so but I thought it was because I was running the hybrid 14" brake with neon rotor. I now realize that the Lebaron hub actually had a extra larger lip for the rotor that extends the cap out by 1/8" or so. I also had to enlarge my spacer's center hole slightly to fit them which I also didn't think about because they hadn't been installed before...

The Lebaron hub with festiva cap is still shorter than the lbody hub with stock grease cap and looks more modern. The lbody hub with festiva cap would be the shortest but you have to watch the clearance on the nut and grease cap and can't push it all the way in even after cutting off the non threaded section of the axle stub... Plus the rotor might not be held hub centric (although the studs hold it very close anyway)

As always things got complicated because I changed 5 things at once. I only realized what happened with the hubs today when posting about it and looking at the picture.

-Rich

[rbryant]

In looking at it and thinking about it some more...

They must have put the bottom lip on the rear disc hub to help keep the rotor more hub centric so it is probably best to use the rear disc hub... With that said however I didn't have any problems using the rear drum hub with the rear disc setup. The rear drums must have been thinner and used the same 57.1mm center as the wheels.

My previous setup was a lbody hub with vented rear brakes so you CAN just swap them. I know that the axle stubs are actually the same part number.



I double checked the fitment on the lbody rear hub with a vented rear disc last night and it still fit on the center tightly. It was tight enough to where I couldn't shuck it and I don't believe that it would ever allow the rotor to be off center even though it doesn't have the extra tapered lip on the hub. That means people that have 1/8" or less center cap clearance issues can simply swap to the lbody rear drum style hubs (which are probably used on most rear drum cars but I haven't checked).

The one possible problem of the lbody hub is that if you are running wheel spacers combining that hub with rear discs will probably not give much of a hub centric lip between the hub and wheel. In that case spacing the spindle out would be a better option.

Given that I am running neon rear rotors with a spacer behind them I am going to stick with the Lebaron hub. With the spacer behind it I feel better about having the extra lip depth on the hub.

-Rich

[rbryant]

are you making and selling the COP plates? I'm going to be dropping a 2.4 into my New Yorker at some point and would like to go COP.

I now have a couple of extra COP plates that I can sell. I think something around $60 plus shipping is probably fair for them and I can include the spacers for the COPs and thread them to M6 so they are ready to bolt on...

If you want one let me know and I can add them to my misc_products for sale page.

-Rich

[GLHNSLHT2]

yes I want one. I probably know one or two other people that would be interested as well.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Rich I see you mention this above but just wanted to clarify. I'm wanting to use 2.7 COP units as they're much easier to find in the j-yard. (yes I'm still cheap on some things :) ) your plate works with the 2.7 cops?

[The Pope]

I want to use 8 on a 340 with a magnum dist pickup but that might be pushing it...

[rbryant]

Rich I see you mention this above but just wanted to clarify. I'm wanting to use 2.7 COP units as they're much easier to find in the j-yard. (yes I'm still cheap on some things :) ) your plate works with the 2.7 cops?

These are made for the newer style 2.7l/2.4l coils (they are the same coil except for the bottom boot). I used these coils because they are much more modern looking and fit into the valve cover much more cleanly. The holes in the plate are placed for those coils.

I assume that you are referring to using the older style 2.7l coils. The older 2.7l coils are basically a coil sitting on top of a rubber boot instead of the coil which is in the tube...

The plates I currently have are designed to have one hole per coil threaded with a M6 bolt to hold down the coil and have one hole per coil for a the control wire to go through the plate so it can be tucked under it.

I don't have any of the older style 2.7l coils at the moment to find the position of the mounting holes and figure all of that out. I imagine that you can simply insert the coils you want to use, mark where you want the holes and drill/tap them yourself just as easily anyway.

I could make more plates without the coil mounting holes or more realistically the holes could just be ignored or plugged with dummy bolts that match your other valve cover bolts.

-Rich

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok, what year did the 2.7 and 2.4's change to these style coils? where do you get yours and how much are they? I'll still take a plate. Let me know when you put them on your site.

[rbryant]

The plate was designed for '06-'08 2.7l or 3.5l coils from the Charger/Magnum/300 which I feel are the best fit for the valve cover.
The '06-09 2.4l world engine coils also fit and are the same coil but have a slightly shorter bottom rubber boot.

The worst part of them is getting the pigtail wiring connectors for them. The coils are only $15 or so each on ebay but the pigtails are usually not included and are something like $15 each from the dealer. They should start showing up in junkyards or ebay auctions soon though. :)


I added them to the dohc conversion products page after the cam driven distributor adapter.
http://rbryant.freeshell.org/dohc_conversion_products.htm

I priced it at 70 plus shipping but I am including the aluminum spacers and stainless bolts for mounting the '06-08 coils. If you don't want those then I can refund $10 just let me know.

-Rich

[rbryant]

Here is a cool project that my coworker is helping me with.


Made with a "Makerbot" 3d printer in ABS. (will be black for the final version which will be printed in two pieces).

Currently modeled at 1/3 scale here is a direct Lbody Dash insert for 2" and 3" VDO gauges:

39891

Gauges are recessed and angled back to the stock angle below the upper surface angle (also matching the stock one).
The stock bezel will be retained without the glass piece.

Some of the holes in the surface won't be there at full scale.

It also includes a 7 segment 4 digit LED display and two pairs of 321 sequential shift light LEDs between the tach/speedo.

The less real time gauges like fuel level and voltage will have to be in the center console in order to fit the following in the main console:

Speedo
Tach
Boost
Oil Pressure
Oil Temperature
Water Temperature

WB02, EGT, Fuel Pressure, and another Boost reading are available on the LED display.

-Rich

[cordes]

Wow, that's quite impressive. I like that it's for the VDO stuff too. I'm a fan of it.

[rbryant]

Wow, that's quite impressive. I like that it's for the VDO stuff too. I'm a fan of it.

Yep it is setup for VDO vision gauges. I wish that the reasonably priced speedo in that set went to 140mph but that would really just be for show and less accurate on the street anyway.

I just need to add turn signals and possibly a couple of other things but it is almost ready. I could do LED bargraphs for voltage and fuel level but I think it might start to look cheesy.

The real test will be in the second full scale print. It takes something like 8 hours for half of it and the first left half full scale prototype was slightly off so we have to do it again.

Given the 16 hours of print time on my friends $2k makerbot toy it really is a one off project but I guess that makes it even cooler in some respects. :)

-Rich

[karlak]

Looks good. Wrong car but looks good.

[omni_840]

Given the 16 hours of print time on my friends $2k makerbot toy it really is a one off project but I guess that makes it even cooler in some respects. :)-Rich

So in other words don't even ask where mine is:D

Very cool Rich! You've already brought so many cool parts to market for these car already:nod:

[rbryant]

So in other words don't even ask where mine is:D

Very cool Rich! You've already brought so many cool parts to market for these car already:nod:

Thanks,

Everything can be made for a price but the price would probably be high given the manufacturing method.

I suppose it would be possible to take the same 3D model and price it on a higher end printer or to CNC it out of a solid piece of ABS on a mill but then we have a volume requirement problem instead of a fabrication time problem...

Oh well...

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

That is pretty damn cool, :nod:

$2K? Sounds very reasonable for that machine, :thumb:

[trannybuster]

Funny, I was just looking at prototype printers such as that, I signed up for NASA tech briefs and they email all kinds of cool stuff....pretty cool stuff right there.