BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

[BadAssPerformance]

BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

OK, about 10 years after making the original prototype, finally looking to make some copies of my original equal length runner shorty tubular header. The prototype picturded below is thin wall mild steel with JetHot coating on it and has lasted several seasons without issue.

The group buy headers will be thick walled stainless tubes with 1/2" flanges on both sides. Chrysler style 4-bolt turbo flange to be standard, options such as EGT ports or coatings currently TBD.

Pricing:
Currently TBD but expected between $500 and $700 depending on how many we get ordered. The materials and manufacturing procedure will cost less if there are 20 made instead of only 5. The first copy is in process and it will help gauge how much cutting and weldng labor is involved as well.

The purpose of this thread is to make sure that we did not overlook anything and to answer questions. If you are interested, please post in this thread that you are, interest at this point is not a promise to buy, that comes later. Once the questions are answered and the first copy is made I will have a better understanding of the pricing and we will start taking deposits.

Some questions answered...

Performance:
HP gains expected to be comperable to 8valves' (Aaron Miller) similar header discussed in this thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32354) however supporting mods will vary from application to application so higher yeilds are possible.

Custom fab and parts required and NOT currently included:
custom downpipe
custom oil and coolant feed lines
custom coolant return line
custom oil return into oil pan
custom air inlet and outlet to intercooler piping
At a minimum one of Johnny's Polybushing front motor mount or solid welded front mount recommended especially if you're close to the firewall with your particular vehicle/turbo combo.

Clearances checked:
clears the firewall in an L-body with a T3/T4 hybrid
clears both Saginaw (metal resivior) and ZF (plasic resivior) power steering pumps
clears steering rack with stock style swingvalve 2.25" and even 3" TU unit
clears runners on 2-pc intake and 1-pc intake
clears small housing high torque starter/solenoid (may require mounting stud removal)

Disclaimer / Reality Check:
This is not a direct "Bolt On" header that you can have running in an afternoon unless you have mad skillz and resources. Build tolerances from vehicle to vehicle vary so just because it fit perfectly in the Shelby Charger we bolted it in does not mean it will fit in every car.

Pictures:

http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_01.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_02.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_03.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_04.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_05.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mstore/bap_parts/header/header_06.jpg

install pic
59959

[tryingbe]

It'd be wise to drill for both Chrysler and standard T3 flange, as Turbonetics stop making the Chrysler flange housing.

[BadAssPerformance]

Good advise :thumb: Know anyone selling those flanges already made for dirt cheap? If so, please PM me.

[johnl]

I would buy one of those.

[Sloride]

That's down-right mean....

If memory serves.... (usually it doesn't) didn't you have this prototype flow tested as well??

[BadAssPerformance]

That's down-right mean....

If memory serves.... (usually it doesn't) didn't you have this prototype flow tested as well??

Yes, Directconnection Steve did include it in his header flow test in this thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15476) and it actually did not flow as well as a huge log but did have good runner to runner consistency. It is obvious why in a flow test of this type that it flowed less, that is due to the length of the runner at a smaller cross section than the larger log plenum... like blowing air thru a straw vs. blowing air out the window. I think I said it in that thread, I am not a fan of flow testing headers as a flow test does not accurately represent or explain how a pressurized turbo header functions with respect to exhaust pulse velocity and timing.

[Birddog]

Good advise :thumb: Know anyone selling those flanges already made for dirt cheap? If so, please PM me.

There's a reason you don't see that flange often....

[Sloride]

Yes, Directconnection Steve did include it in his header flow test in this thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15476) and it actually did not flow as well as a huge log but did have good runner to runner consistency. It is obvious why in a flow test of this type that it flowed less, that is due to the length of the runner at a smaller cross section than the larger log plenum... like blowing air thru a straw vs. blowing air out the window. I think I said it in that thread, I am not a fan of flow testing headers as a flow test does not accurately represent or explain how a pressurized turbo header functions with respect to exhaust pulse velocity and timing.




I just couldn't remember how equal your equal length header is.

May i say, its pretty darned equal.

(#1) -1.3 #2) -2.8 #3) -3.7 #4) 3.2)

[30 PSI SHADOW]

sounds good. So it definitely is an improvement? Im in if it makes more power than a stock ported log....

bill

[8valves]

Dang JT, nicely posted. I think that covered what we discussed quite well!

Mr. Baker, it certainly is a worthwhile investment for anybody serious about wanting to make some big power. Even with the little 'ole papa smurf Daytona of mine it made up to a 15 WHP/WTQ gain above 4500 rpm. That is over a stock manny, not a ported one, but it's also through a 2.25" SV, with a stock head, stock intake, stock turbo (+ .63 housing).

On a well modified car I would see no reason a good header couldn't make a gain of over 40 WHP over top of a ported manifold.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks Aaron, and thanks to your hard work and dyno test for getting me finally considering getting a batch made for this community :thumb:

[4cefedomni]

I'm in if you do one with a standard t3 flange:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I'm in if you do one with a standard t3 flange:thumb:

You already have a manifold, :eyebrows:

[4cefedomni]

lol that was fast! I have a couple TBI manifolds that i can make into headers, but these look like they would flow a bit better than that!

[8valves]

This thread needs more exposure. I don't think people check the group buy section all that often. I had to look hard to even find it.

[2.216VTurbo]

You know the flange on my S car header is drilled for T4 and Chrysler, much closer than T3 and Chrysler. In fact, one hole is elongated and one hole is redrilled, thats it...

T3/Ford/universal, isn't that the *tiny* little rectangle:lol:?

[TurboRon25]

excuse me. These are for 8v motors. I don't think you are allowed to post in a thread that has less than 16 valves. ;)

j/k
Ron

I've seen the prototype years ago and it's better than it looks in the pix.
This sums it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

[Juggy]

whats the flange thickness at the head???? looks to be 5/16 or 3/8 at most

I see the flange has not been seperated between the ports?? is this thing going to bend n flex? warping the initial surface???

I know the TU headers warped because i currently have one that I had remachined at work flat. might be something to consider!! if a big log manny can warp itself over .060" with a thicker flange Id like to say its going to happen to this as well

BTW looks great!! if i have/had money id be all over it....and yes aaron is right about the group buy section, it doesnt get the exposure it should!

maybe it should have its own space under the vending section??

edit: how much space was between the L body firewall and t4 comp housing???? think a GT30R could fit back there with this? :love:

[Juggy]

BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy
The group buy headers will be thick walled stainless tubes with 1/2" flanges on both sides.

Performance:
HP gains expected to be comperable to 8valves' (Aaron Miller) similar header discussed in this thread (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32354) however supporting mods will vary from application to application so higher yeilds are possible.

Custom fab and parts required and not currently included:
custom downpipe
custom oil and coolant feed lines
custom coolant return line
custom oil return into oil pan
custom air inlet and outlet to intercooler piping
At a minimum one of Johnny's Polybushing front motor mount or solid welded front mount recommended especially if you're close to the firewall with your particular vehicle/turbo combo.

Clearances checked:
clears the firewall in an L-body with a T3/T4 hybrid
clears both Saginaw (metal resivior) and ZF (plasic resivior) power steering pumps
clears steering rack with stock style swingvalve 2.25" and even 3" TU unit
clears runners on 2-pc intake and 1-pc intake
clears small housing high torque starter/solenoid (may require mounting stud removal)

Disclaimer / Reality Check:
This is not a direct "Bolt On" header that you can have running in an afternoon unless you have mad skillz and resources. Build tolerances from vehicle to vehicle vary so just because it fit perfectly in the Shelby Charger we bolted it in does not mean it will fit in every car.



I didnt notice the 1/2" flange part till after...so that shouldnt be a prob. he already said he ran it for a couple years with no problems so a thicker flange is going to be even more potent.

THe header being built was never claimed to be a bolt on! JT is upfront with the whole situtation by telling you everything thats needed to be done to make this work, if you want a bolt on header then go buy the TU header.

Im running a TU header now and looking at this, im sure it would help spool my turbo faster, and even make more top end power, over the TU header.

and also aarons obviously done the R & D with his tubed header. if 12 WHP gains can be had at higher rpm with stock 88 TII parts, then 40 whp gains are definately doable with a premo setup.

IMHO the original TU SS header was ONLY made for the ease of installing bigger turbos, providing the market with a true bolt on setup so no hassle is required. and someone had seen there was a way to profit.
R & D wasnt spent until the cast unit! the cast unit was created to find an easier alternative to making the SS versions, and considering they were really the ONLY option, until NOW...

this header is for those who want to go beyond "bolt on" status

[Reeves]

excuse me. These are for 8v motors. I don't think you are allowed to post in a thread that has less than 16 valves. ;)

j/k
Ron

I've seen the prototype years ago and it's better than it looks in the pix.
This sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

LMAO at the video!

Good job guys making this header available to the public!

[BadAssPerformance]

whats the flange thickness at the head???? looks to be 5/16 or 3/8 at most

I see the flange has not been seperated between the ports?? is this thing going to bend n flex? warping the initial surface???

BTW looks great!! if i have/had money id be all over it....and yes aaron is right about the group buy section, it doesnt get the exposure it should!

edit: how much space was between the L body firewall and t4 comp housing???? think a GT30R could fit back there with this? :love:

The head flange started out as 1/4" and due to some warpage during welding I surface ground it completely flat. on one end it is only 1/8"! :eek: but amazingly enough it worked fine and never really warped enough that it could not be bolted flat. Eventually after many 30psi (intake so what 60 in the header?) runs it did start leaking a little on the ends but nothing you could hear. As stated the copies will be 1/2" flanges.

Very close to the firewall with the E cover, Thermotec on the firewall recomended.

[OmniLuvr]

how bout an option of external wastegate?

[BIG PSI]

I am very impressed with the header.
Just like I was impressed with Aaron's Header.

Now if JT could OFFER all the extra pieces needed to help make it more of a bolt on I to would interested in one.

Chuck

[BadAssPerformance]

After many requests, all posts not related to the group buy moved here.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34601

Lets keep this thread on topic please.

[BadAssPerformance]

how bout an option of external wastegate?

That would be hard to package with everything else in the way plumbed off the collector like it would want to be done. For mounting an external gate with this header, you could make a custom downpipe and using the WG hole turbine housing. If you are looking for more... 8valves can make full race headers ;)


I am very impressed with the header.
Just like I was impressed with Aaron's Header.

Now if JT could OFFER all the extra pieces needed to help make it more of a bolt on I to would interested in one.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I am thinking about offering that but know how alot of the DIY T-Mers like to roll... Also the oil return to the oil pan will possibly need to be routed differently per the car and axle combo that is in it so not easy to spec out precisely.

[OmniLuvr]

yeah, i agree, theres a lot going on around that collector, and i thought there would be more room in between the header and intake, pretty tight for an external. i like the turbine hole wastegate idea, im trying to build one right now.

[Reaper1]

OK...I'm going to post here as well...

If I could scrounge up the $$$, then I'd HIGHLY consider running one of these headers. I think for what I want to try and accomplish and my performance goals, this part would work nicely. :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

For those interested, how important is it that you can use the stock type SV housing, since you would have to make your own downpipe anyways?

[johnl]

For those interested, how important is it that you can use the stock type SV housing, since you would have to make your own downpipe anyways?

I'd rather not have to buy a different SV to make it work but if it's necessary for L body clearance . . . . or similar engineering/fit cause, then OK.

[Reaper1]

Honestly, I don't really care TOO much, but it would be nice to be able to use a stock-type SV assembly like TU's. However if that's not possible, then going with an external set-up would be my next move and I'd use a V-band for the DP. My only question then would be what to do about taking up for engine movement? Even though I run all poly mounts and a solid bobble, it still moves a little, so are we talking having to use a bellows assembly or what?

If it is suggested to go to an external wastegate set-up, is there going to be a provision to do that?

[minigts]

I would prefer to use stock parts, in terms of the SW. So because I want this, it must be so. Thank you. :D

[turbovanman²]

Honestly, I don't really care TOO much, but it would be nice to be able to use a stock-type SV assembly like TU's. However if that's not possible, then going with an external set-up would be my next move and I'd use a V-band for the DP. My only question then would be what to do about taking up for engine movement? Even though I run all poly mounts and a solid bobble, it still moves a little, so are we talking having to use a bellows assembly or what?

If it is suggested to go to an external wastegate set-up, is there going to be a provision to do that?

If not running the stock SV, you use some flex hose, like so-

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20pics/Canoncamerapics060.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

i would prefer to use stock parts, in terms of the sw. So because i want this, it must be so. Thank you. :d

lol :)

[BadAssPerformance]

If not running the stock SV, you use some flex hose, like so-


or solid motor mounts :D

[Reaper1]

Well, as I've said I've got ALL poly mounts AND the solid bobble(the tranny mount is the "race" version). I figured it would require some bellows, and that doesn't bother me, just wanted to make sure...

[4cefedomni]

If I provided you guys with a flange for a different turbo would it be possible for you to put it on instead of the chrysler flange?

[BadAssPerformance]

If I provided you guys with a flange for a different turbo would it be possible for you to put it on instead of the chrysler flange?

That might be a possibility but we could not gaurantee fitment of a different turbo with respect to the firewall, started, power steering, etc...

[Mopar318]

When will people relize that swingvavles SUCK anyways.

90 degree 02 housing with v-band FTW!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

True, that is the best fro performance, however, that requires an external wastegate and even more fab... The 3" SV's available do a nice job.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

When will people relize that swingvavles SUCK anyways.

90 degree 02 housing with v-band FTW!!!

I've been saying this for years
Now if I can get people to use dual port wastegate cans or better yet external wastegates my mission will be complete

[Reeves]

True, that is the best fro performance

:hail:

[BadAssPerformance]

Lol!!!

[4cefedomni]

That might be a possibility but we could not gaurantee fitment of a different turbo with respect to the firewall, started, power steering, etc...

Thats cool, I think I would only have problems with the firewall and I don't have a problem with taking a hammer to it and persuading it to move:D

[BadAssPerformance]

Teaser pic...

[boost geek]

Nice lumpy cam.

[bakes]

Looking good JT!! What's the clearance like to the intake runners?

[BadAssPerformance]

Need to check a 1 pc... should be no problem 2 pc.

[turbovanman²]

Looks good, :thumb:

[Reeves]

Looks really good JT! I can't leave my desk right now......


Nice lumpy cam.

LOL! I take everything out of my mock up heads so they are much lighter!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Another teaser pic :D

[bakes]

JT if I was to get one later made for me late late summer with a holset style flange would that be posible? pm me please.

[Mopar318]

Looks like that collector is going to be a PITA to cut. Hope you got a band saw. All I have is a sawzaw. Hehe. Looks great.

[BadAssPerformance]

JT if I was to get one later made for me late late summer with a holset style flange would that be posible? pm me please.

Maybe... we'll see when the batch is actually made!

[WickedShelby88]

After the group buy will there be the possibility for future purchases?

[BadAssPerformance]

That would totally depend on how many are sold in the initial group buy and if there is enough interest for a second group buy.

[BIG PSI]

I have another question for you JT.
Can we get it built with an external wastegate ?

Chuck

[BadAssPerformance]

For the group buy it would probably be all the same... maybe we could do some add ons. Problem is that everyone would want a different external location or flange type... Hmmm... maybe when we bolt it up for test running I can figure out where a good WG can go and make a DP combo... thats gonna cost quite a bit more tho.



UPDATE... It fit the test vehicle 99.9%!!! more to come ;)

[8valves]

Looks good bud. More effort than I want to put into it to make that thickwall collector!

[turbovanman²]

UPDATE... It fit the test vehicle 99.9%!!! more to come ;)

:needpics1:

[BadAssPerformance]

Updated pics attached to post #1 :thumb:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34429

[black86glhs]

DO you think the tack welds will hold????:confused:
Seriously, looks great. Nice and smooth where the runners meet at the collector.:thumb::hail:

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... next steps:

-weld up
-baseline runs on the Shadow
-swap onto Shadow (take instalation pics)
-get new runs in with it

[black86glhs]

Sitting here with some popcorn waiting.........:eyebrows:

[WickedShelby88]

If this thing doesn't improve the VE of an 8V engine what will;)

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah I know what will work. I was just trying to give JT a compliment on his handiwork.

[BadAssPerformance]

And the compliment was appreciated :thumb: I gotta pass along the compliment to the actual fabricator tho, I cannot take credit for his work :thumb:

[black86glhs]

And the compliment was appreciated :thumb: I gotta pass along the compliment to the actual fabricator tho, I cannot take credit for his work :thumb:Oh hell, I thought you did the work.:mad:
The person doing it is doing mad superfly work, yo!!!!:clap:

[BadAssPerformance]

Its a team effort, I dont have as easy of access to a TIG right now... and yes, it is beautiful work :clap:

[Clay]

ok, I missed this the first go round I guess, but now that I see it, Im interested. FYI.

[Reaper1]

This may be a stupid, nit-picky, and worthless question, but is there going to be efort made to better match the round tubes to the squarish ports? I know with regular tubing all you need is the right madrel, but with this stuff I don't see that happening easily.

Like I said, probably stupid, just something I noticed...

[BadAssPerformance]

On the original I formed the tubes with a mandrel but that was thin wall mild... with the thick wall SS I would rather not stress the material as SS has a memory. The insides of the ports could be ground to taper outwards....

[8valves]

It's not a bad thing to leave them as they are. They can act as an anti-reversion buffer. I wouldn't worry about them at all.

It looks damn good JT, and as I said before, WAY more effort into that collector area then I think a lot of people would realize. Those are some difficult cuts. Worsened by the thickwall.

[Reaper1]

True on the anti-reversion. I thought about that, but then my fluid dynamics and aero thinking kicks in and I see turbulence, but I forget about the reversion thing! Thanks for reminding me! :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

I didnt think about the anti-reversion either, was more thinking about flow... Good point Aaron! :thumb:

[8valves]

Hey, I try from time to time.

[ScottD]

JT you got any engine bay pics you can share? I'm curious to see the turbo in relation to the firewall.

[BadAssPerformance]

JT you got any engine bay pics you can share? I'm curious to see the turbo in relation to the firewall.

First pic is in the SS prototype in the tightest compartment found so far, T3 comp housing 88 p-body that I think something is goofy with the engine mounts?

Second pic is the original prototype in the Z with a T04B comp cover on T3/T4.

I have another pic somewhere of a T04E comp cover on a T3/T4 with the original prototype in an L-body

[minigts]

First pic is in the SS prototype in the tightest compartment found so far, T3 comp housing 88 p-body that I think something is goofy with the engine mounts?

Second pic is the original prototype in the Z with a T04B comp cover on T3/T4.

I have another pic somewhere of a T04E comp cover on a T3/T4 with the original prototype in an L-body

Looking forwards to the pics of the L body prototype. :) I'd love to see how the clearance.

[BadAssPerformance]

Amazingly enough it seem that the l-body has more room than the p-body? or at least that one!

ETA: moved the above posts to this thread from the BS one ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

NEWSFLASH!

BadAss Header Prototype to be viewable at SDAC-19!

[Reeves]

NEWSFLASH!

BadAss Header Prototype to be viewable at SDAC-19!

:thumb::amen:

[Juggy]

:thumb::amen:

500whp equal length header on the omni????

[Reeves]

500whp equal length header on the omni????

That would be cool! I want one with a normal T3 outlet.

[4cefedomni]

any news on these??? I'm gonna be putting my motor together in the next couple months and would like to have one of these on it:evil:

[BadAssPerformance]

Any news? Header only needs a couple slight mods and it will be ready to botl on. trying to schedule the baselien runs on teh Shadow... stay tuned

[Juggy]

git er done JT?

[BadAssPerformance]

Havnt touched it yet, gotta get the other conversion pieces ready first.

Having too much fun with eth Z right now :D

[Juggy]

update? :D

[4cefedomni]

:bump2: any news?????

[Reeves]

www.bumptv.com

[CSXT802]

www.bumptv.com

WTF^^^:confused:

[Reeves]

Bump ^

[black86glhs]

Uh....JT....quit looking at the Link Reeves posted and give us an update....please.:confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

Its sitting in the shop on the bench. Need to modify runner #2 for stud/nut clearance. Also need to get baseline runs on the Shadow.

[turbovanman²]

Its sitting in the shop on the bench. Need to modify runner #2 for stud/nut clearance. Also need to get baseline runs on the Shadow.

So get OFF the computer and git r done, ;)

[4cefedomni]

Any updates on this??????????

[BadAssPerformance]

Still sitting on the bench. :( Might have some time waiting for a fixed rim on the Z ...

[bakes]

Any updates on this??????????
Don and me are waiting but we are getting worried as next spring race season is coming and we both need them for a winter upgrades.

Free bump to the top

[BadAssPerformance]

Actually yes I do have an update. Test fitting on a Shelby Charger this week.

As far as back-to-back testing... we'll see if he likes how it fit ;) or, will have to wait a bit. My plate is really full with work right now.

Let me ask this, how many are interested w/o testing? Thats really the only main holdup right now.

[cordes]

Actually yes I do have an update. Test fitting on a Shelby Charger this week.

As far as back-to-back testing... we'll see if he likes how it fit ;) or, will have to wait a bit. My plate is really full with work right now.

Let me ask this, how many are interested w/o testing? Thats really the only main holdup right now.

Depending on price I may be in for one should me current job continue on its present course.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, I still need to work on pricing...

[Captain Chaos]

Yeah, I still need to work on pricing...

I have a price in mind, should you be interested in my price I would forgo the testing.:eyebrows:

Seriously, I agree with Cordes.

[bakes]

1 without testing i will take should it fit into a 89LS with ps and a 2 piece intake with a S60 with a 3" swing valve with not to many Mods.

[bakes]

well how did the test fit go JT?

[BadAssPerformance]

I need to get the pics (I wasnt there) but I heard it fits on the L body as good as the original prototype does :thumb:

[bakes]

Sweet

[cordes]

Good news JT. Let us know when you have pricing worked out.

[black86glhs]

I would be happy to do a test fit in a GLHS for you JT. I happen to have one in my driveway that is getting the engine rebuilt. :D:eyebrows:

[4cefedomni]

Right on so it should fit on my omni with no issues!
The only question is can you make me one with a flange for a he351 vgt?

[BadAssPerformance]

The problem with offering different flanges is fit cannot be checked... you'd have to sign up for possible interferences.

[4cefedomni]

this car is not a daily driver and has no heater, I have no problems beating my firewall for a bit of clearance:evil: as long as it clears my starter and power steering pump I'm happy. from the looks of it the starter shouldn't be a problem and I think the turbo will be far enough back that the "swingvalve" or v-band elbow should be fine too.

[bakes]

Right on so it should fit on my omni with no issues!
The only question is can you make me one with a flange for a he351 vgt?

just request that the turbo flange bolts(4) not be drilled and put the holes in yourself

[4cefedomni]

the he351 vgt uses it's own unique size of flange it has a larger opening that a t3 flange and the bolt spacing is different. So it would be easier to just get a he351 vgt flange off ebay and weld it on.

[bakes]

Bump?

[BadAssPerformance]

Still gotta figure some stuff out on it...

[minigts]

JT I don't know if this has been asked or addressed anywhere, but how is the turbo support bracket affected? Would a new one need to be made for it?

[BadAssPerformance]

Great question, as I do not think it was discussed yet in this thread.

I did not run a turbo support bracket with the original (thin wall mild) prototype and do not forsee needing one for the updated SS version.

...but then again I havnt run one on a stocker for years and have had no issues

[4cefedomni]

Any updates?
Is there a possibility that you could be making these in a month or two? I have all my parts back from the machinist now so I would like to start putting my motor together soon

[BadAssPerformance]

Unfortunately production wont start for a couple months at the soonest.

I do have an update tho, the prototype test fit quite well in Tommy's charger with a T3/T4E turbo and TU 3" outlet :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Very nice, :hail:

Will power steering fit?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yes, PS does fit... the ZF pump for sure, the Saginaw might need some slight bracket massaging. I think I posted pics already?

[4cefedomni]

very nice!
Do you think you could make me one with a he351vgt flange? I can provide the flange.

[minigts]

How about a built in heat shield mount, or something of the like for the starter? Not sure what the best option would be, but maybe something that can bolt on to diffuse the heat to the starter?

[BadAssPerformance]

very nice!
Do you think you could make me one with a he351vgt flange? I can provide the flange.

I think I answered this one before... just wont be able to guarantee fitment to firewall, etc.


How about a built in heat shield mount, or something of the like for the starter? Not sure what the best option would be, but maybe something that can bolt on to diffuse the heat to the starter?

When I ran the original prototype on the Z I used thermotec starter wrap w/o issue. I think Summit sells one for pretty cheap now

[4cefedomni]

I just wanted to make sure.
Would it help if I sent you a flange now?

[BadAssPerformance]

For now a picture might help, but the flange not needed yet...

["Top Fuel" Bender]

For now a picture might help, but the flange not needed yet...

need a stack of flanges :eyebrows:
plasma cutter is still running inconsistant
holes are o.k. because the stainless doesn't harden
but the finish looks like cast iron

Mill is already to go though
:evil:

[4cefedomni]

I'll see what I can find. And I'll try and get measurements on the studs and opening.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Should be this one
T4i or called WGMT

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/thumbs/8a44_2.jpg ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/8a44_2.jpg')

:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Yes, PS does fit... the ZF pump for sure, the Saginaw might need some slight bracket massaging. I think I posted pics already?

That was like 6 pages ago, I forgot already, :eyebrows: plus someone could be wondering like me, :D



How about a built in heat shield mount, or something of the like for the starter? Not sure what the best option would be, but maybe something that can bolt on to diffuse the heat to the starter?

Just use the DEI or Summit wrap, no need for JT to supply that kind of stuff, ;)

[minigts]

..


Just use the DEI or Summit wrap, no need for JT to supply that kind of stuff, ;)

It wasn't a supply I was inquiring about, but a boss or something welded on the header for a metal shield or something. My questions are about usage and function, not to see what all I can get with it, which is why I asked about the support bracket previously. :)

[turbovanman²]

It wasn't a supply I was inquiring about, but a boss or something welded on the header for a metal shield or something. My questions are about usage and function, not to see what all I can get with it, which is why I asked about the support bracket previously. :)

Well quit asking all these damn questions, :eyebrows: :amen:

[minigts]

Well quit asking all these damn questions, :eyebrows: :amen:

I CAN'T HELP IT!!!! I have to, otherwise the little things that aren't noticed will continue to go unnoticed! :p I was thinking a couple of mounts for a piece of metal as a shield would be a good idea, but a heat shield wrap would work well too. :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

need a stack of flanges :eyebrows:
plasma cutter is still running inconsistant
holes are o.k. because the stainless doesn't harden
but the finish looks like cast iron

Mill is already to go though
:evil:

Hmmm.. got a pic of the plasma cut finish? is it staight (not tapered) and smooth?

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Hmmm.. got a pic of the plasma cut finish? is it staight (not tapered) and smooth?

minor taper that were working on
the finish on the stainless looks like a cinderblock though
trying some different setting next week

[4cefedomni]

Should be this one
T4i or called WGMT

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/thumbs/8a44_2.jpg ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/8a44_2.jpg')

:thumb:

I dont think so, the holset vgt is not a twin scroll design. I'll take some pics and measurements next time I go out to my shop.

[bakes]

I dont think so, the holset vgt is not a twin scroll design. I'll take some pics and measurements next time I go out to my shop.

I believe the mounting holes are the same just no bridge between the the two sides.

[4cefedomni]

Could be, I'll still measure it just to make sure

[bakes]

I guess there is no posiblity that there will be one ready for my wife to slip under the tree this year?

[Reeves]

I guess there is no posiblity that there will be one ready for my wife to slip under the tree this year?

I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.




_____DodgeZ add comments here______

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL!

Yeah, not going to be ready by then, unfortunately... Sounds like Reeves is tho! ;)

[minigts]

I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.




_____DodgeZ add comments here______

ROFL Man that is funny. New quote for me. :)

[Reeves]

ROFL Man that is funny. New quote for me. :)

:clap: Never been quoted in anyone's signature before! :clap:

[DodgeZ]

I can be ready. Please send pics of wife.




_____DodgeZ add comments here______

Damn, it is getting rough in here....

[minigts]

Damn, it is getting rough in here....

Your truck is white with a camper top, FYI.

[Captain Chaos]

:bump:

[Reaper1]

I agree! Bump! Where is this thing at in development?

[BadAssPerformance]

Its sitting in my garage at 8°F. :thumb:

Seriously now...

It would have gotten onto the car for test this past fall, however, it still needs to be modified slightly to be able to bolt onto the head. You can thank those that want power steerig for that :p

I have had quite a bit going on in my personal life this past year and although I hate excuses, that is a primary reason I have not touched it. Not to mention it was more fun to go race the Z as my little escape from reality :thumb:

I am working on setting up a shop in my basement so I can in fact work on it before spring.

I do want to get the prototype onto the Shadow and see what benefits it adds.

Stay Tuned...

[Reaper1]

Oh...I'm staying tuned!! LOL

[cordes]

Its sitting in my garage at 8°F. :thumb:

Seriously now...

It would have gotten onto the car for test this past fall, however, it still needs to be modified slightly to be able to bolt onto the head. You can thank those that want power steerig for that :p

I have had quite a bit going on in my personal life this past year and although I hate excuses, that is a primary reason I have not touched it. Not to mention it was more fun to go race the Z as my little escape from reality :thumb:

I am working on setting up a shop in my basement so I can in fact work on it before spring.

I do want to get the prototype onto the Shadow and see what benefits it adds.

Stay Tuned...

Are you suggesting that there will be yet another A/B test done? (Grabs heart and falls out of chair)

[BadAssPerformance]

Don't die Cordes! :eek:

Timing will determine if it is an A-B in 2010 or if I just use the baseline of 100+ timeslips from the Shadow in its current configuration.

[cordes]

Don't die Cordes! :eek:

Timing will determine if it is an A-B in 2010 or if I just use the baseline of 100+ timeslips from the Shadow in its current configuration.

I may never fully recover. :nod:

[Captain Chaos]

Good to hear. Thought you may have scrapped the plans since you were talking about a scattershield GB.

[turbovanman²]

I think people would like an A to B test BUT this piece is still needed and the test should be icing on the cake.

[BadAssPerformance]

Good to hear. Thought you may have scrapped the plans since you were talking about a scattershield GB.

Not at all, I'm hopefully picking up a welder tomorrow so more projects can get done :)

[Reaper1]

Hell, I'd lend my welder to the cause if I knew it would do any good, but it would take a little investment in the welder to make it to where it could even be used for something like this as right now it's only set up for flux-core (yuck)...not to mention in Florida :(

[Mopar318]

I have a Tig still under waranty you could use. But im 3 hours away.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the offers guy, I actually have one at work I can use but the 50 mile round trip blows... and I've needed one at home for years

[4cefedomni]

So it's looking like spring before these are tested?
Any idea how long before you start making them?

[bakes]

i really don't care for the testing i can do that myself just the test fit with PS is all i need
i just need this very soon as motor is starting to go back together and I'm ruining out of time

[Juggy]

Don't die Cordes! :eek:

Timing will determine if it is an A-B in 2010 or if I just use the baseline of 100+ timeslips from the Shadow in its current configuration.

A- B is always nice. but honestly with your shad prolly being as consistent as I think it is, there shouldnt be any real need for any other type of testing. real world track gains r enuff to please me. and if makes mo power on a stockish setup like that, imagine what it will do for those running a more hipo setup

[BadAssPerformance]

i really don't care for the testing i can do that myself just the test fit with PS is all i need
i just need this very soon as motor is starting to go back together and I'm ruining out of time

Yeah its gonna be a while, you might be out of time if yer looking to run by spring. The prototype did fit with PS however needs to be flycut and one pipe masassged to fit one header bolt.


A- B is always nice. but honestly with your shad prolly being as consistent as I think it is, there shouldnt be any real need for any other type of testing. real world track gains r enuff to please me. and if makes mo power on a stockish setup like that, imagine what it will do for those running a more hipo setup

Yeah thats what I was thinking, I got a stack of 13.0's at 102-104 mph

[4cefedomni]

I just got my bottom end together today and bolted the head on. So I'm getting really close to needing a header too.

[turbovanman²]

Yeah its gonna be a while, you might be out of time if yer looking to run by spring. The prototype did fit with PS however needs to be flycut and one pipe masassged to fit one header bolt.


Maybe see if people want it as is, and what about using the ZF pump, it gives alot more room.

I honestly see testing as pointless for the sale, people want them, :thumb:

[8valves]

I bet it's no better than a ported stocker. :-P

[Captain Chaos]

I bet it's no better than a ported stocker. :-P

:fencing::drum:

[BadAssPerformance]

Maybe see if people want it as is, and what about using the ZF pump, it gives alot more room.

I honestly see testing as pointless for the sale, people want them, :thumb:

As-is it wont bolt on yet... but it clears both pumps.

One way or another, it will be tested on the Shadow...

[BadAssPerformance]

I bet it's no better than a ported stocker. :-P

Hey, thats for the other thread ;)

[Badger]

ok so it clears the p/s pump(s)...anything else theres an issue with? Will you still be able to have an operational heater, defrost,.....not that its a deal breaker but what about the A/C?

[BadAssPerformance]

Both heater core and A/C hook up are nowhere near the header. :thumb:

[4cefedomni]

Bump:bump2: any updates?

[Juggy]

B
i
g

b
o
o
t
y

b
u
m
p
!
!
!

[4cefedomni]

I don't think it's gonna happen anymore:( Havn't gotten an update in a long time.
I'm probably just gonna get someone local to build me one cause I'm gonna need it soon.

[black86glhs]

JT....put the crack pipe down and get to work!!!:p
What is up with the header, bud?

[BadAssPerformance]

I don't think it's gonna happen anymore:( Havn't gotten an update in a long time.
I'm probably just gonna get someone local to build me one cause I'm gonna need it soon.


JT....put the crack pipe down and get to work!!!:p
What is up with the header, bud?

If you need one soon... do what you have to. Since the decision was made to test it, everything screeched to a halt. Not to mention the SS prototype still needs mods to fit.

I have also had a lot of changes in my personal life that I really dont care to get into here.

So will it happen? yes. When? please be patient.

[black86glhs]

If you need one soon... do what you have to. Since the decision was made to test it, everything screeched to a halt. Not to mention the SS prototype still needs mods to fit.

I have also had a lot of changes in my personal life that I really dont care to get into here.

So will it happen? yes. When? please be patient.

I am being patient, just bustin your chops.:D

[bakes]

:bump2:Still making this JT

[BadAssPerformance]

Thats the plan... still need to modify the one runner to make it fit, then get it on the Shadow to test.

[turbovanman²]

Thats the plan... still need to modify the one runner to make it fit, then get it on the Shadow to test.

Why test? just make them now and make testing an option, I bet most will take header now and testing later, :thumb:

[bakes]

I will test it for ya , im not worried about the Data .

[black86glhs]

JT....I can test fit it on my 86 engine with 2 piece intake. Seriously. It is in the garage waiting to go into the GLHS. Let me know if I can help.

[turbovanman²]

JT....I can test fit it on my 86 engine with 2 piece intake. Seriously. It is in the garage waiting to go into the GLHS. Let me know if I can help.

That's not the testing, its a dyno test.

[black86glhs]

It's been so long, I thought he was still doing fitment testing.:p

[BadAssPerformance]

Well, I was planning to do track testing on my Shadow and only got as far as getting baseline runs (the car always runs 13.00 @ ~104 and did again this spring) and have not fit it yet.

Fitment testing is completed and it will fit with power steering but there is now an issue with one of the manifold studs and runner #3. With the issues I've had on the 2.4L an dnuts coming loose I really want to try to figure this out so the header does not have to be pulled to fix one stud.

Also, do we have a KC article or something on which exhaust studs go into the coolant jacket?

[turbovanman²]

Also, do we have a KC article or something on which exhaust studs go into the coolant jacket?

No, but I can look at a head if you want.

[puppet]

After all the problems folks have had trying to make other headers fit I kinda put it on the back burner... but its still in the works, finishing fitment issues soon hopefullyHey JT ... I'd like to add a constructive comment on your header if you do move forward with it one day ... hopefully you do. It would be pretty nice if you were able to rework the collector area to allow a twin scoll "ready" option.

I realize that, given your design, it wouldn't allow for the "optimum" cylinder pairing easily .. making that a compromise .. but .. one that I think people could live with. All the important aspects would still be there .. + the included pulse separation. ... anyway, just a thought.

[BadAssPerformance]

My first thought is that It could be done easily with merely adding a divider but with the current runner configuration would probably not be optimal for flow because the area reduction would be fairly abrupt... interesting idea tho. :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

FINALLY ... and update.

The flange got a little warped when welding so I took care of it tonight. Need to clean up a couple other things on it and it will eb ready to bolt on the test mule :thumb:

[cordes]

FINALLY ... and update.

The flange got a little warped when welding so I took care of it tonight. Need to clean up a couple other things on it and it will eb ready to bolt on the test mule :thumb:

When did you want me to bring the test mule by?

[Mopar318]

I like that fixture. What kind of mill is that?

[turbovanman²]

About time, lol.

Still, not sure why you want to test, 90% of the buyers don't care and just want the product, :p

The other 10%, tough shitt, :wow1:

Aaron did all the testing for you. :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

I like that fixture. What kind of mill is that?

Bridgeport Mill... not sure who makes the angle fixture but it is awesome :thumb:

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------


About time, lol.

Still, not sure why you want to test, 90% of the buyers don't care and just want the product, :p

The other 10%, tough shitt, :wow1:

Aaron did all the testing for you. :nod:

Aaron's was a bit of a different design. 90% dont care? Really? After other consumer responses to other headers in the community I would be a fool not to test it.

[Mopar318]

Bridgeport Mill... not sure who makes the angle fixture but it is awesome :thumb:

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------



Aaron's was a bit of a different design. 90% dont care? Really? After other consumer responses to other headers in the community I would be a fool not to test it.

Cool. Having a mill at home is awsome! That thing looks so small compared to the series II. If you find out who makes that fixture let me know...I want one!

[contraption22]

About time, lol.

Still, not sure why you want to test, 90% of the buyers don't care and just want the product, :p



Easy there... we don't BAP to become the DCR of the 2.2/2.5 world! :)

[BadAssPerformance]

Cool. Having a mill at home is awsome! That thing looks so small compared to the series II. If you find out who makes that fixture let me know...I want one!

I WISH it was at home.. G-job at the office ;) ...Will do... Sure J&L sells them


Easy there... we don't BAP to become the DCR of the 2.2/2.5 world! :)

No worries there, LOL

[RoadWarrior222]

After other consumer responses to other headers in the community I would be a fool not to test it.

Please yerself, but we all know it's not going to be up to the greatness that is a ported stock mani... ;) :p :thumb:

[omni_840]

Sorry if I missed this, but how much?

[BadAssPerformance]

Price TBD

[black86glhs]

Price TBDYou tease!!!!! LOL

[boost geek]

That header needs a Holset hanging under it. :eyebrows:

[bakes]

JT how much does your header move the down pipe off center of the tunnel?

[BadAssPerformance]

The turbo flange is centered vs. the offset of the strocker, so.. a couple inches. A custom DP and thermo wrap on the steering rack are required.

[Juggy]

Deep Penetratoin and spermicidal wrap are required.

fixed for yeah :eyebrows:

[RoadWarrior222]

Riiiight, spare us the details on how exactly you're gonna use yours Jug k thx.

[turbovanman²]

Easy there... we don't BAP to become the DCR of the 2.2/2.5 world! :)

That will never happen, unless JT becomes a gazer, :p

What's BAP?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Bad --- Performance=BAP :rolleyes:

[turbovanman²]

Bad --- Performance=BAP :rolleyes:

Durr on me, lol, :banghead:

[Juggy]

That will never happen, unless JT becomes a gazer, :p

What's BAP?

Brutal Anal Penetration :lol:

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

ohhhh crraaaapp sorry JT im laughin my asss off here !!! :lol: :lol:

[black86glhs]

Someone in Ontario please go pick up Juggy's prescriptions. Thanks.:thumb::clap:

[BadAssPerformance]

Brutal Anal Penetration :lol:

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

ohhhh crraaaapp sorry JT im laughin my asss off here !!! :lol: :lol:

LOL... oh Juggy, what brings that up? Did you try to cross the border today? Oh Snap.... LOL :lol:

[Juggy]

LOL... oh Juggy, what brings that up? Did you try to cross the border today? Oh Snap.... LOL :lol:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was good. lol.....

[turbovanman²]

Juggy's had too many male friends over, he was getting ready for jail earlier, :p

[Juggy]

Juggy's had too many male friends over, he was getting ready for jail earlier, :p

id rather people think I was gay, then think I was a child molester :amen:

free candy anyone???
:drum:

[RoadWarrior222]

It's only funny 'coz we don't realllllllllly think Simon is a child molester ... ... ... unless maybe they were azn and looked legal.

[Punish'nRice]

What ever happened with this? I just read entire thread to be left with umm???

[BadAssPerformance]

SS prototype was tested on a car last year, need to get time to take a look at it to see if there are any issues, and cost out what it would take to make them with current material prices.

[chilort]

Subscribed. Can't say I'd be in for one for sure when the day comes, but I'd sure like to know when it happens.

[Punish'nRice]

SS prototype was tested on a car last year, need to get time to take a look at it to see if there are any issues, and cost out what it would take to make them with current material prices.

Ok, when you get everything figured out and if price is still around stated price in OP I'll take one.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, when you get everything figured out and if price is still around stated price in OP I'll take one.

2014 is looking like a good year, right JT? :bolt::eyebrows::lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

2014 is looking like a good year, right JT? :bolt::eyebrows::lol:

Looking to be before then... blew teh dust off the project and we're working up pricing based on current materal costs... stay tuned

[BadAssPerformance]

Cleaned up... enough off topic guys

[DodgeZ]

Cleaned up... enough off topic guys


WTF faggot. Damn nazi do you think you are still a mod on TD?



;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Yer mom dude.. I was never a mod on TD

[DodgeZ]

Yer mom dude.. I was never a mod on TD

hmmm well clearly you wanted to be.

[BadAssPerformance]

hmmm well clearly you wanted to be.

Whatever... Back on topic please

[DodgeZ]

Whatever... Back on topic please

Yeah back on topic... 3 years later and no header, I think you need to get back on topic and not worry about a couple comments. It would be best if just delete the thread failboat.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah back on topic... 3 years later and no header, I think you need to get back on topic and not worry about a couple comments. It would be best if just delete the thread failboat.

blow me

[minigts]

That's BE-LOW me. Someone may take that the wrong way JT. hehe

[DodgeZ]

That's BE-LOW me. Someone may take that the wrong way JT. hehe

Now that is F'en funny. "Be LOW me"

[turbovanman²]

You guys need a room.

[Reaper1]

I hope all this is just buddies jabbing each other...of not...REALLY?!

[BadAssPerformance]

All in fun...

[turbovanman²]

All in fun...

So he says with gritted teeth, :lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

I've never eaten grits... LOL

[Reaper1]

I've eaten grits....but that's probably not a story that's safe for the forums! ;P (you gotta be from the south to get this)

[DodgeZ]

I hope all this is just buddies jabbing each other...of not...REALLY?!

JT is alright... no comment on Simon.

[turbovanman²]

JT is alright... no comment on Simon.

Awww, you still care, shucks.

[bakes]

All this cr@p aside what is your time line on finishing testing and getting the proto to market???

[BadAssPerformance]

All this cr@p aside what is your time line on finishing testing and getting the proto to market???

It has performed well and seems to be a good design. I would like to test it more this year, however, everyone said its been tested enough so we'll see what we can do to make it happen this year. It will be advertized with a list of disclaimers like "race only, not tested for tons of street use" and also "has been test fit in G, L and P bodies, but no guarantee it will fit yours without modification" and "this is for the DIY racer, you will need to fabricate your own downpipe to make it work for your application" and "you will have to relocate your oil drain return lower (like into oil pan) to have proper drainage angle... and the list goes on LOL

Currently collecting material costs, after that, will post the price and start collecting deposits. Hope to be in production by summer...

[Juggy]

It has performed well and seems to be a good design. I would like to test it more this year, however, everyone said its been tested enough so we'll see what we can do to make it happen this year. It will be advertized with a list of disclaimers like "race only, not tested for tons of street use" and also "has been test fit in G, L and P bodies, but no guarantee it will fit yours without modification" and "this is for the DIY racer, you will need to fabricate your own downpipe to make it work for your application" and "you will have to relocate your oil drain return lower (like into oil pan) to have proper drainage angle... and the list goes on LOL

Currently collecting material costs, after that, will post the price and start collecting deposits. Hope to be in production by summer...

aaww comon. its not going to be a "true bolt on" with zero modifications required to work with stock type parts like TU's stuff? lol....

[RoadWarrior222]

Well if you want easy, you just have to wait 20 years for nanobots in a spray can that you just hose in the intake... where they'll port everything and gap your plugs.... but we'll all be running a Mr Fusion by then anyway.

[Punish'nRice]

It has performed well and seems to be a good design. I would like to test it more this year, however, everyone said its been tested enough so we'll see what we can do to make it happen this year. It will be advertized with a list of disclaimers like "race only, not tested for tons of street use" and also "has been test fit in G, L and P bodies, but no guarantee it will fit yours without modification" and "this is for the DIY racer, you will need to fabricate your own downpipe to make it work for your application" and "you will have to relocate your oil drain return lower (like into oil pan) to have proper drainage angle... and the list goes on LOL

Currently collecting material costs, after that, will post the price and start collecting deposits. Hope to be in production by summer...

Really looking forward to getting my mits on one of these, as I'm sure a lot of you are.

[Punish'nRice]

Any updates?

[BadAssPerformance]

Got the original mild steel prototype to the guy with the SS prototype so he can swap the SS one off his car so we can make copies... will update when it is at the fabricator

[Punish'nRice]

Got the original mild steel prototype to the guy with the SS prototype so he can swap the SS one off his car so we can make copies... will update when it is at the fabricator
Ok, keep us posted. Really looking forward to putting this on my build. :)

[Punish'nRice]

Any new update on these?

[BadAssPerformance]

Prototype still on car, but may be coming off soon... once it doesm fixtures will be made

[RoadWarrior222]

Well don't leave it too long or we'll be reading "Mild steel prototype fell apart from rust when removed please stand by while another prototype is made and 60,000 mile tested..." :D

[BadAssPerformance]

The mild steel prototype is currently setting in a box... the SS prototype is on the car and needs to come off to get jigged up, and the MS proto will go back on that car in the mean time.

[Punish'nRice]

The mild steel prototype is currently setting in a box... the SS prototype is on the car and needs to come off to get jigged up, and the MS proto will go back on that car in the mean time.

Is the SS prototype on your car or on someone that your working with car?