Went to the track in the Mini-didn't go well!

[turbovanman²]

Get to the track, Friday night, April 7th, Mission Raceway. Pay, go thru tech, put my slicks on, put the rear shocks on hard, add a gallon of C16 to my almost empty tank that has 94 in it.
We wait abit, we should be starting at 5:30 but we start racing at roughly 6:15. Domestic, Outlaw, Motorbikes then us, Sport Compact. Lots of Honda's, not many turbos, 5 RX7's, 2 real Skylines, a few Cavaliers and other stuff mixed in. Lots of interest in my van, laughs and pointing, the usual questions-why a van? Boostgeek, forcefedomni and Mate are here to watch-not racing.

I leave my van at the street boost of 15 psi, want to see what she'll run, I go thru the burnout box, they stop me and I try to do a burnout, the box is pretty dry and barely get them spinning when they hook. Mission was just repaved up to the 1/3 mark so its slimey, I am lined up with a Skyline, stage and go, good traction for me, 2.1 and a .613 time, him-2.8 and .795. NOTE, my trans shifts at 6800 rpm, haven't had time to fix the governor so I have to float the gas to make it shift and can't go WOT or it kicks down. It doesn't feel fast and look at my boost guage-9-10 psi-WTF, :banghead: I get a 15.9@81, him a 14.9@102.99. I go back and look for leaks, can't find any so I turn the MBC all the way in.
Round 2-do a good burnout, get a 2.2 and run a 15.9 again, 25-30 psi and its missing and pig rich. So change out my plugs and turn down the fuel pressure.
Round 3-good burnout, cut my best 60ft, 2.0, but it misses bad and halfway down, blows an IC hose, grrrrrrrrrrr, :mad: :censored: 18.9@49mph. Back to the pits and reattach it, clean off any oil etc. Install old coil box, I have the new updated one but I guess it has too much dwell.
Round 4-blow the IC hose off doing a burnout, run a whopping 2.8 60ft and 20.5@64mph. Double clamp the offending hose using my air filter clamp-note to self, send money to T-nation for the 3" T-bolt clamps. At this point, ready to give up, getting pretty upset.
Round 5-Do a massive smoke show-NO MISSING-:thumb: I can hear the crowd screaming for joy thru my closed windows. the Skyline again is in the next lane, green and I nail a .489 to his .735, 2.1 to his 2.5 and she's pulling hard, I have to float the gas and I push down to far and it drops from 3rd to 2nd briefly, its also pinging in 3rd. I run a 14.2@95.78mph to his 14.6@101.47. I can't stop grinning. Get back to the pits, I have a swarm of people run over and go WTF is in that thing? lots of talking blah blah and I give her a tad more fuel.
Round 6-me vs turbo Civic, I cut a .382 to his .368, 2.2 to his 2.3 and I win, 14.6@92.13, his 15@92.58. It was lean and pinging bad. Give her some more fuel.
Round 7-Burnout and here a bang? line up and launch, .413 and 2.3 60ft then halfway down, Pffffff-blow a IC hose, and then turning into the pits, my diff is banging badly????????? :mad: run a 15.8@78.35. Jack it up, check the shafts-ok, must be that POS Alabama Insert I have. Oh well, throw my street tires back on and load her up, figure get as close to home as possible, cheaper on the tow bill. She's really noisey leaving the track, feels like the diff is going to blow out, I keep going and it stops making noise. Fill her up and drive to my shop, aprox 40mins away. Drive home, she's quiet??????????? Anyhow, going to check it out anyway, so again, no 12's for me and based on tonight, I honestly don't know how to get them, my boost was bouncing between 25-30 psi-found my MBC acting up. Guess I will never see 12's in my van, :mad: :mad:

I tried one run not to burn out but barked the tires along time. I have vids to host later.

[Marcus86GLHS]

"......MBC acting up. Guess I will never see 12's in my van..........."

maybe its time for a custom 3 bar calibration and loose the MBC?
and maybe spend an hour dyno-tuning and testing everything 1st before you head out to race again.

anyways sounds like you had a lot of fun, keep trying.

[Ground Rat]

Sorry to hear the bad luck man. I usually do a bunch of shakedown runs on the street before going to the track. I'm sure once you get your setup sorted out you'll get that 12 second slip. :thumb:

[Dave]

Sorry to hear about that Simon. I was hoping for some real good times out of you.

Definately sounds like you need to spend some time tuning it all in, then go to the track.

You always have bad luck at the track. That makes me sad. :(

[guyd_15]

I hate when I have high hopes and they don't pan out!
Guy

[85_600]

Just look at it this way. It's STILL only April. Take your time - pace yourself - get things back on track and your will be done and tuned before you know it.

At least you got the 14's...I'd be happy with that but then again, I've never been racing a boosted vehicle before :o

Sounds like you have ALOT of potential...just pace yourself, don't rush anything, you won't be dissapointed :thumb:

[Will Martin]

..........wow, I wasn't expecting that. The potential is definitely there, it's just always one thing or another. I don't want to get my hopes up too high for my car, but would like to tune first before the track. BTW, have you figured out a day you're going to Forcefed?

[Turbulence]

Sorry you didn't get what you were expecting Simon. Keep trying, its all there, the stars just need to line up for you :)

Martin
90 Voyager TII
89 Horizon

[GLHSKEN]

Simon, The kickdown cable adjustment is a snap to fix the shifting issues. Takes 5 minutes.

Can't wait to get my hands on the van at SDAC!!! mwahahaha...

[Whorse]

Sounds like you're really having trouble with those IC hoses. D'you have a welder at work for stainless steel? Seems like that would work better than the T-Bolt clamps. Even a few beads should hold. I know that I've cranked clamps as hard as possible and blown them at 12psi, so your 25-30 would easily blow one off with just a little misalignment.

[altered7151]

Ditch the worm gear clamps, those things suck ---. I had the same problem you did, and switched to the t-bolts and never had a problem since. I think you'd drop quite a bit of time off your runs with a properly adjusted tranny or even a manual valve body.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, The kickdown cable adjustment is a snap to fix the shifting issues. Takes 5 minutes.

Can't wait to get my hands on the van at SDAC!!! mwahahaha...

Tried that, still shifted at 6500 ish, thats the 14.6 run. I just need to play with the governor and kickdown valve.

Yeah, I am looking forward to that also, :thumb:

Will, I guess it will be end of April, tell me your days off.

I know about the clamps, an ordering error on my part. I even blew off a t-bolt clamp, :banghead: Going to have to spend some time and weld beads on.

Marcus, have a 3bar cal but if I enable low boost, I loose cruise control. I am going to order another spring for it, I had to play with it last year. Also-go hear for my setup-
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34510&postcount=1

I did have alot of fun, I had alot of people think it was a V8, turboed 6 cylinder, etc. After my 14.2 run, they were like flys on fly paper, :thumb:
At least this time, I am not saying I am done, its being sold etc, lol! :lol:


I also have to get this cal worked out, its just too rich on the top end, I am running 40 psi base fuel pressure. Paul sent me another one but it won't run so awaiting his call.

[Whorse]

Why not just add in your 3bar map, and use a solenoid to switch from your 3bar and your 2bar when you want to race or just drive? If you don't mind tapping into your wiring harness, you should be able to just wire up a switch to a relay and your solenoid and have your pick.

[turbovanman²]

Why not just add in your 3bar map, and use a solenoid to switch from your 3bar and your 2bar when you want to race or just drive? If you don't mind tapping into your wiring harness, you should be able to just wire up a switch to a relay and your solenoid and have your pick.

Huh? lol. I have a 3bar Map, what would your idea do?

[Stevien1]

Lighten the big governor weight up with a grinder (make the hole bigger). Or switch back to .91 transfer gears, they lower WOT shift points. Do you have any "country" roads out there? Spend some time with a cheap $20 G-tech meter from eBay to get an idea of what it's going to do before going to the track.

You'll get it, just keep trying. BTW, my van still needs an alignment. ;)

-Chuck James

[Will Martin]

I'll PM you my days off in a little bit.

[turbovanman²]

Lighten the big governor weight up with a grinder (make the hole bigger). Or switch back to .91 transfer gears, they lower WOT shift points. Do you have any "country" roads out there? Spend some time with a cheap $20 G-tech meter from eBay to get an idea of what it's going to do before going to the track.

You'll get it, just keep trying. BTW, my van still needs an alignment. ;)

-Chuck James

I was thinking about the .91 gears but then around town, it would be a dog.
I did grind out the hole abit but it shifts at 6800, thats alot of material, :lol:
I am going to try Torqueflites idea of messing with the kickdown valve and spring first-its seems the Superior shift kit had the same idea, you grind the valve down and they have a different spring. I have alot of line pressure right now-using a spring from a 727 kit. We'll go from there, I still need to find out what went wrong with the AB insert-at least I got it cheap, :eyebrows:

Thats funny on your van, too funny, :p

[contraption22]

Alabama Man insert does not cure the problems with the original design of the differential. Keep burnouts to a minimum. My best 60 ft times have been with no water burnout, just a dry-hop to clean off the tires. I'm running M&H's.

[89t2baron]

don't give up

[Directconnection]

Sorry for your bad luck again, Simon.

One Q and a suggestion. You seemed to be tuning the van at the strip rather blindly. Starting at 15psi boost, then later turning the mbc all the way in...getting 25-30 psi... taking some fuel out...etc. It is my opinion that you are wasting your track time making tuning guesses when I personaly would have had my car dialed in before heading to the track. Alot lesser of a chance having a letdown this way.

Intercooler hose blowing off... yeah, that would suck as I'm sure you would have seen some 13's anyway.

[WOP'R]

just get'r tuned at the dyno meet then let'r rip!!!

[turbovanman²]

Alabama Man insert does not cure the problems with the original design of the differential. Keep burnouts to a minimum. My best 60 ft times have been with no water burnout, just a dry-hop to clean off the tires. I'm running M&H's.

Tried it, but didn't hook, the track was too new. Maybe after some serious rubber layed down, that will work.



Sorry for your bad luck again, Simon.

One Q and a suggestion. You seemed to be tuning the van at the strip rather blindly. Starting at 15psi boost, then later turning the mbc all the way in...getting 25-30 psi... taking some fuel out...etc. It is my opinion that you are wasting your track time making tuning guesses when I personaly would have had my car dialed in before heading to the track. Alot lesser of a chance having a letdown this way.

Intercooler hose blowing off... yeah, that would suck as I'm sure you would have seen some 13's anyway.

Yep, planning on a dyno day to mess around but I never get the same results on the dyno than the track.

I need to fix my MBC and WOT upshifts, I think that will be a big gain.

[dwh4784]

Getting the shifting working right should really help you, so can you go WOT at any point or will it kick down no matter where it's at?

[turbovanman²]

Getting the shifting working right should really help you, so can you go WOT at any point or will it kick down no matter where it's at?


Right now, if I hold it at WOT, it won't upshift till 6800, If it its in 2nd or 3rd and below that RPM, it will kick down, bloody annoying, lol!

[Dave]

What should you be shifting at, instead of 6,800?

I'm shifting around 5,500-5,750. Usually I let 1st rap out a little more than 2nd.

What's optimal? Stock valvetrain btw. Sorry to hijack. ;) I'm just rambling now.

[turbovanman²]

I want it to shift around 6-6200 rpm, it makes power all the way there. :D

[SpoolinGLH]

Well us forged crank 2.2 guys can shift at 7000 :nod:

Bryan I know you have a automatic but i normally short shift first instead of letting ride all the way out...but since you have a automatic i dont know if you would bog or not..

[Rattlesnake]

Don't worry Simon, for us the TD owners there is always a second chance to make a first impression. One advice: flare the ends of the intercooler pipes with pliers a little a time, slip the hose and clamp it., it will never come out. If you do this you don't need expensive clamps. You will get your 12's, I have faith in Mini:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Thanks, I wonder if the Taft S1 cam is holding me back? maybe I should put the stocker back in?

I am just going to lay some welds on the pipes, that'll fix her, :thumb:



Well us forged crank 2.2 guys can shift at 7000 :nod:

Bryan I know you have a automatic but i normally short shift first instead of letting ride all the way out...but since you have a automatic i dont know if you would bog or not..


I don't make power there so there's no point keeping it there, :eyebrows:

[SpoolinGLH]

Simon,

Looking at the whole picture.....what mods do you have diff then like terrys or pauls van?

[turbovanman²]

Simon,

Looking at the whole picture.....what mods do you have diff then like terrys or pauls van?


Maybe the cal. Paul used a PS ic but mine flows more. Same turbo's and other items. Paul used a RMVB and Terry used a reg auto I believe.

I just went over Paul's specs-My turbo is bigger, by head is bigger, he is running a one piece intake, me a ported 2 piece, me log header, him-ported stocker and he's running same size slicks, except mine are 15, his are 14's so WTF, honestly, WTF?

[Ubmbass]

You should really invest in a manual valve body, then it will shift where ever you want it to. They are only like 150 bucks,. well worth the money to stop all these headaches you seem to be having.

[turbovanman²]

You should really invest in a manual valve body, then it will shift where ever you want it to. They are only like 150 bucks,. well worth the money to stop all these headaches you seem to be having.

I don't want a manual auto, if I have to shift, I would install a my 5spd I have. Theres a reason I want an auto, so it shifts itself, :thumb:
I will get the auto figured out, will just take time, if not, my 568 will go in. :eyebrows:

[GLHSKEN]

Simon, You are running MT 22's right?? If so, They do mneed a burnout. As others say with the M&H it's not big deal.

Next time at the track, leave it set at a boost level. Make tuning adjustments from there. 15 psi with your set-up should be low 14's anyway. Change 1 thing at a time. Then when that is correct, go to the next.

[Directconnection]

I don't want a manual auto, if I have to shift, I would install a my 5spd I have. Theres a reason I want an auto, so it shifts itself, :thumb:
I will get the auto figured out, will just take time, if not, my 568 will go in. :eyebrows:


Sounds like you still have alot of other problems to sort out.

How come you weren't manually shifting BTW? L,2, then D???

[Directconnection]

Simon, You are running MT 22's right?? If so, They do mneed a burnout. As others say with the M&H it's not big deal.

Next time at the track, leave it set at a boost level. Make tuning adjustments from there. 15 psi with your set-up should be low 14's anyway. Change 1 thing at a time. Then when that is correct, go to the next.


Right on!

It's hard to hold yourself back... I know.

Patience is a virtue or whatver the saying is.

[GLHSKEN]

Wouldn't work steve. That method holds it in the gear after you've reached the trans shift point. Simons car (err Van) would sttill not have shifted until 6800 rpm.

[Marcus86GLHS]

SIMON you need Cliff R. to build you up a proper race automatic, that would solve all your trany/shifting probs.

i agree on the M&H comment, my best ET & 60 foot was doing zero tire warm-up just roll to the line as-is at 12 psi. but my car is a lot lighter than a van of course.

[Mario_V]

Hello, I´ve read other posts where you state that you have been playing with your cam timing, I´ve read that you´ve advanced it a lot, maybe your Van needs less cam timing and that is why it is pinging? Some cars don´t like advanced cam timing, I mean on the street it feels good with all that torque down low but maybe at the strip it doesn´t really helps in this particular setup you have?. Just a thought :).

[Force Fed Mopar]

Tune one thing at a time dude. Get it right at 15psi first, if it's not right at that level it'll never be right at higher levels, you'll end up blowing the engine. Just set it up as stock, everything to stock, cam timing, boost, timing, etc, then turn it up a little at a time from there.

Nobody ever runs their best times first time out with a new setup, not even professional drivers. It takes time man. You'll get there if you tune it right and don't blow the engine.

[dwh4784]

I still think once it shifts right and you can go WOT it'll go just fine. Having to part throttle it while running 22psi could be why it's pinging so bad too.

[turbovanman²]

Thanks guys, like I said, I am not throwing in the towel.

Thanks Ken on the shifting, also, my shifter is really hard to move from 1st-2nd so I leave it in 2nd, and shift manually to 3rd. This is also how I got my best time a few years ago.

Yep, there M/T's, I tried the no burnout thing and they wouldn't hook, again, the track is new so it needs rubber layed down.

Cam timing is only 2 deg advanced, the new IC helped that alot.

Yep, will play some more, hopefully I can get to the dyno in the next couple of weeks but going to fix my shifts also in the next couple of weeks.

Marcus, no disrespect but I can build my own stuff, just need to play with the shifts. Even with slicks, my trans would bark 2nd gear, pretty funny, :thumb:

[Directconnection]

Wouldn't work steve. That method holds it in the gear after you've reached the trans shift point. Simons car (err Van) would sttill not have shifted until 6800 rpm.

Every automatic car I have ever owned I got better results shifting it manually and it always upshifted where I wanted it (but with a slight delay of course) I used to have a 3.3 Dynasty and could have sworn I used to drive it hard that way. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe my memory is getting even worse, or maybe my Intrepid's autostick has me spoiled? ( or an A-B-C combo???)

[turbovanman²]

Every automatic car I have ever owned I got better results shifting it manually and it always upshifted where I wanted it (but with a slight delay of course) I used to have a 3.3 Dynasty and could have sworn I used to drive it hard that way. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe my memory is getting even worse, or maybe my Intrepid's autostick has me spoiled? ( or an A-B-C combo???)

Yep, your memory is going, :lol:

[Ubmbass]

You know, I understand that you like the auto shifting.. But I would be willng to bet you won't see 12's on a stock auto with your setup.

[turbovanman²]

You know, I understand that you like the auto shifting.. But I would be willng to bet you won't see 12's on a stock auto with your setup.

Its not stock, :thumb:

BTW, check out my vids in the vid section. :nod:

[Ubmbass]

Definately glad to hear it's not stock. What do you have done to it?

[turbovanman²]

Definately glad to hear it's not stock. What do you have done to it?

High stall custom converter from TCS, 5 pinion planetary-welded, 4 pin front welded, TCS rear modified sun gear for a bearing instead of the plastic thrust washer, HD rear band strut, 5 disc clutches, no 1-2 accumulator, 2-3 servo modded so it doesn't move as much uses spacers, rear forward clutch spring shortened 1/2 inch, modified v/b per all the sites and I put nylon balls in, stiffer line pressure spring I had in a kit for my 727, PG diff with new bearings and case savers, big cooler, synthetic fluid and I have the case tapped for the line pressure mod and I have a drain plug installed in the pan, also using the reuseable pan gasket. Just need to get the shifting part figured out and it will be sweet. I can bark 2nd gear with slicks, :amen:

[85lebaront2]

Simon, you and automatics. You seem to have more problems with automatics than anyone deserves. Put two gauges on it, one on the kickdown pressure and one on the governor. Take it out and drive it to where you want it to shift. have someone with you record the pressures or do it on a chassis dyno. You can then start fiddling with what you need. I agree with the consensus on don't change everything, change one thing at a time, see what it does, then either go more on it, or back where that variable was and change something else to see what it does. I don't drag race any more, haven't since the early 70s, I am more into track racing like NASCAR and SCCA. The same policies apply, don't "shotgun" tuning. Good luck with it! I have one of our members on here who thinks I should go into building automatics.

[turbovanman²]

Yep, me and auto's, :banghead:

I am close, very close. Played some more this weekend and got the shift down 300 rpm. 500 more to go, :thumb:

OBX lsd on its way and the spacer plate is also. That should be the final weak link gone.

[LynX853]

dude, you should be happy as a pig in poo right now, you beat a 15 sec turbo civic HAHAHAHA

and a skyline!
great job!
patience is key to tuning!
keep up the good work!

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^Thanks.

Well I have put lips on my IC hoses, fixed the diff so just need to get my WOT points down and going back out tomorrow night, :thumb:

[Stevien1]

Go get 'em Simon! Watch the top-fuel style burnouts! ;)

-Chuck James

[turbovanman²]

Go get 'em Simon! Watch the top-fuel style burnouts! ;)

-Chuck James

No more burnouts until my OBX is installed. I will justl do a little dry hop. just going to fix my governor now, I hope, :thumb: