What years did what stuff change on the CTD Rams?

[BadAssPerformance]

Ive been looking at 3/4 ton Rams and am on the fence between gas an diesel, partly cuz I know nothing about the diesel.

So here's my first CTD question - what years did what stuff change on the CTD's in the Rams? ...and while we're at it, what stuff's prefered?

[mrmopar66]

89-90 Rotary pump Non Intercooled 12 Valve
91-93 Rotary pump Intercooled and Overdrive Auto 12 Valve
94-98.5 Inline P7100 pump Intercooled 12 Valve............Preferred by most
98.5-02 VP44 Electronic 24 valve.............My Fav
01 6 Speed Manual
03-present Common Rail fuel Injection, Quiet running.


This was just a quick list. I'm sure you will want to know more.


Brian

[denviola]

Bought a 05 CTD 4WD QC long bed in May, had it at SDAC 15 this year (deep red/silver). Left home with 600 miles on the odo, back home with 2300. Did 20.9 mpg on the way out, with AC off - wasn't towing anything . Later in the year was pulling my 29' travel trailer to Church Retreat, truck bed fully loaded, 5 people in the truck, A/C on (95 degrees out), did 13.5 mpg. I really did buy this truck for towing, and will probably trade my tag camper in on a larger 5th wheel. It's soooooo nice to have power when towing, comfort and reasonable mileage. No chips or anything installed, and have the 4 spd auto.

It's all in what you want and will use it for. I will likely never offset the cost of the CTD through better fuel mileage - I wanted a good tow vehicle with long bed and got a great one. Gets good mileage at 7500# curb weight!

I did drive the new Ford, and the Dodge is much quieter inside and out. Liked the Ford interior better.

[Frank]

LOL. The mileage of 20.9mpg was so in your face! LOL. Nothing like having to fill up 4 times while towing with a 302 Bronco, and having Denny in his CTD having to wait for you because he doesnt need gas!


Frank

[denviola]

having Denny in his CTD having to wait for you because he doesnt need gas!
Frank

LOL Frank, I didn't need gas cause I use diesel.....;)
I would have filled up at the one stop, but there was no diesel at either station.
35 gal tank is nice tho, got to the hotel with just under a quarter-tank left. Would have been different if I was towing, for sure!

[Lee'sdaytona]

LOL Frank, I didn't need gas cause I use diesel.....;)

:lol: Haha you beat me to it!
-Lee

[JDAWG]

I think when they went to the "DR" body in 03 they switched to an intercooler with plastic end tanks. The older ones (BR bodies) had full aluminum coolers.

[moparzrule]

89-90 Rotary pump Non Intercooled 12 Valve
91-93 Rotary pump Intercooled and Overdrive Auto 12 Valve
94-98.5 Inline P7100 pump Intercooled 12 Valve............Preferred by most
98.5-02 VP44 Electronic 24 valve.............My Fav
01 6 Speed Manual
03-present Common Rail fuel Injection, Quiet running.


This was just a quick list. I'm sure you will want to know more.


Brian


The first year was 88. I also thought they didn't start until 89 but my brother's friend had an 88 cummins. It's true most people prefer the 12 valve P7100, specifically the 96-98, but once you go 24 valve it's hard to go back unless funds don't allow it. My bro has one of the best, an 02' 6 speed. Awsome truck, just awsome. It puts out 400 WHP right now, but he just bought the TST box for more juice and he wants to move to 175 horse injectors instead of the 125's in it now. The 400 is speculation though, he dyno'd at 375 WHP/790 ft/lbs with the stock HX35 screaming it's head off at 42 PSI boost! Now he just slapped a super 40 on it, and it doesn't fall on it's face any more up top so he guesses about 400 WHP due to the less restrictive turbine. So it could be more than 400, we'll see. More juice soon though! Then he'll re-dyno it.

[TrrboJeep]

Ive been looking at 3/4 ton Rams and am on the fence between gas an diesel, partly cuz I know nothing about the diesel.
I was in the same boat as you. I liked the diesel, but I didn't like the price of it , and knew very little about them. In the end it came down to what I towed, and how often I towed.
Basically if you're going to tow more than 5,000 lbs, and if your going to tow fairly often, get a diesel... you won't regret it. If you're towing less than 5,000 lbs. and not very often, (like me) get the Hemi.
I've got an 04 2500 Quad Cab 8' box w/ Hemi & 5spd stick (4:10 rear gears) 6,200 lb curb weight. It is rated to tow 11,050 lbs, but it would be humpin' to do so. :nod: lol
best fuel ecconomy - 20.2 mpg (empty)
worst fuel ecconomy - 9.5 mpg (towing through the smoky mts.)

The real reason I didn't get the CTD.... I would not have been able to resist "modifying" the motor, and blowing up the transmission as a result! ;)

\/\/\/ My Truck \/\/\/

[TrrboJeep]

Some info from my latest (January 06) issue of Four Wheeler Magazine...

Long term test of 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT Quad Cab 4x4 (short box)...
Cummins I6 with Automatic Trans

Miles = 31,187
Best tank (mpg) = 18.7
Worst tank (mpg) = 13.4 (unladen)
Worst tank (mpg) = 8.5 (towing)
Average mpg = 16.5

Mileage seems about on with my brothers truck (same vehicle). Although he does drive it like he stole it! :nod:

[moparzrule]

The newer 3G ram cummins seem to get less mileage...stupid common rail crap. My bro's 02' truck bone stock got 20-21 MPG empty, 17 MPG towing about 6000 pounds. With the edge EZ box and RV injectors he got 22ish empty if he kept his foot out of it.

[TrrboJeep]

The newer 3G ram cummins seem to get less mileage...
I've noticed that too. The 3G cummins runs 30psi off the showroom floor, so fuel output is bumped up to match. Hence, when you don't drive it easy, it can really drink the fuel! :nod:

[moparzrule]

This is a diesel engine, not gas. You give more boost to match the fuel not the other way around. More boost lowers EGT's, more fuel raises it. Diesels work opposite pretty much of gas engines.
The newer cummins gets worse mileage regardless of how you drive it in every situation compared to the older cummins whether it just be driving like a granny or like you stole it or towing.

[TrrboJeep]

More boost lowers EGT's, more fuel raises it. Diesels work opposite pretty much of gas engines.
???:confused:

Well, on my friends Chevy 6.5L turbo diesel, he crancked up the boost and the EGT didn't drop, it raised, to the point of making ash trays out of his pistons! :nod:

[moparzrule]

He had a pyrometer to show that EGT's did this? Or are you just assuming that cranking the boost made high EGT's? 6.5's are horrible, they only run about 6-8 PSI stock. The design with the pre-chambers is stupid, probably why it blew up.
Look up aftermarket turbo's for cummins, you'll see numerous ads stating that this turbo LOWERS EGT's up to so much because it flows more air than the stock turbo.
Here's an example-
http://www.citydiesel.net/dodgezilla-turbo-p-30.html?cPath=32_34
http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeTurbos.htm

[BadAssPerformance]

So it sounds like there has been plenty of advancements through the years. 2001-2002 sounds like a couple good years. Any comment about those?

[moparzrule]

Yup, 01-02 best years IMHO. They got 4 wheel disk brakes and the option of the 6 speed tranny. Just make sure you put some kind of electric fuel pusher pump to aid the stock lift pump, they go out every 80K or less with mods if you don't.

[glhs441]

I have a 2001 2500 2wd extd cab cummins/auto,it gets 19-20mpg unloaded
and 14-15 pulling my 18' trailer and 86 GLHS at 80-85 mph.

[8valves]

My brother has an '05 3500 quad cab 4x4 with the auto. I just drove it out to my girls place and back and averaged 19.1 mpg according to the info center. I didn't think that was to bad, but i was really trying to take it easy on it.

Aaron Miller

[440SCOUT]

how about cummins engine swaps??? i have a 70 dodge crew cab power wagon and was contemplating a cummins swap most of the swaps i have seen have been the first gen cummins 88-93. i assume the wiring is a lot less complicated on the early ones ... but the trannys on those are probably the worst ? am i correct? they have the getrag 5 spds or the 727's right??
any link to swaps like these??

[moparzrule]

The 94-98 12 valves are just as simple and they have a far better injection pump, the only wiring on the engine is to the fuel shutoff selenoid. You can use the NV4500 tranny even on an early first gen engine.
The best engine would be a 96-98 12 valve that had a manual tranny behind it. Next best would be either a 96-98 auto or 94-95 stick, last would be a 94-95 auto but actually that engine is still even better than a first gen.

[Putter]

I have a 95 3500 CTD Manual with dana 80 and a 4.10. I average 19mpg unloaded and 15mpg or so with car/trailer (Total weight 11,500lbs).

The only drawback is they CTD's with a manual trans don't go very fast. 31" Tire, 4.10 gear, 2250rpms @ 65mph. After that the fuel economy starts going down pretty quick.

I will say, a gas engine gets you up to speed a lot faster. I've pulled cars with v6 s10(14-15mpg), 7.3 dually ford(12mpg), and my 5.9 cummins(15-16mpg). I like the cummings the best, but the s10 would pull at 75mph where my cummins hits the governer at 78mph. The cummins doesn't seem to like going much faster than 65-70 unloaded and 60-65 loaded (A 3.73 or 3.55 gear would be much nicer, but the owners manual kicks your towing capacity down 2,000lbs per gear step, 18,000 4.10, 16,000 3.73 etc, and you still have to subtract the weight of the truck, mine 6200lbs).

Other things to consider:

Oil Change: 60-70$
Diesel vs Gas: 70c/gallon difference right now
Fuel filters yearly: $$unkown$$
Climate and Cold Starting
Cost of repair if it does break...

Hope this helps.

[moparzrule]

Putter- Everybody that owns a cummins is not sure why the factory rates the 3:54 gears for less weight. A cummins engine likes less RPM's and like the lug. I've known people that pull 24,000 pounds with 3:54 gears, but they had a couple power modifications though.
If you would do a few simple modifications to your truck, you could extend your RPM range, have more power, and tow a lot easier. $500 could get you gauges (boost and EGT), a torque plate, and a governer spring kit. Getting a mild torque plate will keep your EGT's in check, yet make more power than a newer cummins.
The 4:10 gears are just a curse, but it takes a lot of $ to change them to 3:54's.
What would help you is if you got larger tires. You probably have the factory 245/75's? If you got 265's next time around they fit on the factory wheels fine. I had 295's on my truck with 02' aluminum wheels which are wider, but if I could do it again I would put on 285's because the 95's rubbed on the control arm slightly when turned over hard left.
Also bear in mind you have a 95, which has the smaller 175 pump. The 96-98 manual trans have 40 more horses, the 215 pump. But, a simple fuel plate modification and a governer spring kit and you'd knock the pants of a 215 and have your much higher speed. You say you hit the governer at 78 mph? Put in a 3000 RPM governer spring kit it it won't start defueling at 2400 and shut down at 2700.
Hah, actually I just looked up city diesel's site and they now have a kit for what I'm saying!
http://www.citydiesel.net/12-valve-street-tow-performance-kit-p-250.html?cPath=22_26_49
Comes with a very mild torque plate that gives you 38 HP and 134 ft/lbs of torque. I ground my stock plate flat, which is full fuel. Not really good for towing but it was good for 100 HP and 275 ft/lbs gain! But the governer spring kit is the next best mod.
You should also think about getting a 3'' exhaust system. They are cheap and easy to install. Mine cost $250 because I got straight pipe (no muffler), but a muffler kit is $300. The exhaust reduces EGT's greatly and helps turbo spoolup a lot too.

[Putter]

Higher final drive increases the stress on manual transmission and clutch componants, hence reduced 'rated' towing capacity.

I know the kits are out for more power and more RPM but the point isn't to have more power or more RPM, just maintain the fuel econonmy at a higher MPH which more RPM is not a solution. Its a DRW vehicle, so 265 tire is out of the question. It would be nice to find a used gear vendors OD unit, that gives you the best of everything, .54 overdrive for crusing or set it 1:1 and maintain the 4.10 gear for pulling a trailer without having to spin it 2700rpm constant for thounsands of miles.

My exhaust consists of a 3" downpipe and catalyst, then its open, stupid rust. Anyway, I wanted to contribute to someone's decision, not hijack the thread.


Putter- Everybody that owns a cummins is not sure why the factory rates the 3:54 gears for less weight. A cummins engine likes less RPM's and like the lug. I've known people that pull 24,000 pounds with 3:54 gears, but they had a couple power modifications though.
If you would do a few simple modifications to your truck, you could extend your RPM range, have more power, and tow a lot easier. $500 could get you gauges (boost and EGT), a torque plate, and a governer spring kit. Getting a mild torque plate will keep your EGT's in check, yet make more power than a newer cummins.
The 4:10 gears are just a curse, but it takes a lot of $ to change them to 3:54's.
What would help you is if you got larger tires. You probably have the factory 245/75's? If you got 265's next time around they fit on the factory wheels fine. I had 295's on my truck with 02' aluminum wheels which are wider, but if I could do it again I would put on 285's because the 95's rubbed on the control arm slightly when turned over hard left.
Also bear in mind you have a 95, which has the smaller 175 pump. The 96-98 manual trans have 40 more horses, the 215 pump. But, a simple fuel plate modification and a governer spring kit and you'd knock the pants of a 215 and have your much higher speed. You say you hit the governer at 78 mph? Put in a 3000 RPM governer spring kit it it won't start defueling at 2400 and shut down at 2700.
Hah, actually I just looked up city diesel's site and they now have a kit for what I'm saying!
http://www.citydiesel.net/12-valve-street-tow-performance-kit-p-250.html?cPath=22_26_49
Comes with a very mild torque plate that gives you 38 HP and 134 ft/lbs of torque. I ground my stock plate flat, which is full fuel. Not really good for towing but it was good for 100 HP and 275 ft/lbs gain! But the governer spring kit is the next best mod.
You should also think about getting a 3'' exhaust system. They are cheap and easy to install. Mine cost $250 because I got straight pipe (no muffler), but a muffler kit is $300. The exhaust reduces EGT's greatly and helps turbo spoolup a lot too.

[moparzrule]

Higher final drive increases the stress on manual transmission and clutch componants, hence reduced 'rated' towing capacity.

I know the kits are out for more power and more RPM but the point isn't to have more power or more RPM, just maintain the fuel econonmy at a higher MPH which more RPM is not a solution. Its a DRW vehicle, so 265 tire is out of the question. It would be nice to find a used gear vendors OD unit, that gives you the best of everything, .54 overdrive for crusing or set it 1:1 and maintain the 4.10 gear for pulling a trailer without having to spin it 2700rpm constant for thounsands of miles.

My exhaust consists of a 3" downpipe and catalyst, then its open, stupid rust. Anyway, I wanted to contribute to someone's decision, not hijack the thread.


Considering the thread start was 2 years ago, I think it's OK.
More power will help fuel economy at cruising, been proven many times over. I was suggesting the governer spring kit also for running through each gear it really helps with acceleration since you said acceleration wasn't that great. With an extra 500-700 RPM in the power band it's a lot nicer.
Another great thing to do is advance the injection pump timing. I took mine to a local diesel shop because I don't have the tools. Every truck has different timing, it's on the ID tag and they are almost always off from what they are suppose to be. My 94' came with 12.5 degree's, but it was really only 11 degrees. I had it bumped to 15, but I only had it bumped that much because I had everything else maxxed out and didn't want to blow a headgasket. You would be fine with 16 degrees being all stock, I know guys that have gone 20 with no ill results when the rest of the truck is stock. It's only when you have other mods that really raises the cylinder pressures when the timing is advanced. I picked up 1 MPG and EGT's dropped 150 degree's at WOT and also like 100 degree's while cruising.

[Putter]

Haha, I guess I didn't check the dates on the first posts...