OMNI's upcoming engine rebuild

[Reeves]

I'm freshening up the motor in the OMNI after many years of abuse. I'm having a hard time deciding what to do on a few things.....

Rods:
Currently it has stock TII rods that have been beam polished and shot peened and ARP Wav-Loc's installed. They seem to be working fine. I'm leaning towards just using them some more.

I have had in storage for quit some time now a set of GRP aluminum rods. They are really f'n sweet. I haven't heard anyone having any major problems out of them, but I worry about stretch/shrinkage or longevity. They may be fine and help me pick up a little top end HP.

I also thought about some slightly lighter Eagle rods or some sort of H-beams.

Crank:
Currently is has a bone stock 2.5L crank that has been balanced with the flywheel. It has been fine this long, and I'm leaning on using it again.

I have had in storage for quit some time now a stock 2.5L crank that has been *slightly* knife edged on the leading edges of the counter weights and slightly *smoothed* and then balanced with a fresh flywheel. May pick up a little HP?

Mains:
Currently has stock 2 bolts.

Thinking about adding the 4 bolts to the old block.

Flywheel:
Currently has a stock flywheel that was balanced with the crank.

I have had in storage for quit some time now a Fidanza aluminum flywheel.
I planned on using it last year as an experiment, but never got around to it. I was hoping to kill some of my launch torque and pick up some HP on the big end. I plan on going with a 3.05 FD this year, and think the aluminum flywheel will now be overkill.

[contraption22]

I don't trust aluminum rods anymore.

[Reeves]

I don't trust aluminum rods anymore.

Reason?

[contraption22]

I've had two friends have catostrphic engine failures due to aluminum rod failure. They have a finite lifespan. One was Brian Slowe. The other was my friend Doug who's '58 Vette ended up on it's roof when his rods failed.

[turbovanman²]

Go with the Eagles or TU rods, agreed don't use the aluminium rods, not intended for daily use.

I would use the knife edge crank.

I would talk to Aaron about the 4 bolt mains, probably not a bad idea but if your bearings etc look good now, maybe its not needed?

I wouldn't use the lightened flywheel, I bet it will be harder to launch as you'll need to launch on higher rpm to avoid it bogging. Maybe the turbo helps offset that???

[Shadow]

Hard to change something that's not broke! Your combo seems to be working well for you, I can understand not wanting to change.....too much. Interesting that Rob had such good luck with his aluminum rod 2.4. I was also going to run aluminum rods, but I've since turned away from them. The Charger is always going to be 90% street car/ 10% race car, so unless that were to change I'm sticking with steel. I'd throw in that knife edged crank (can't hurt) I've deff been doing the 4 bolt main debate. Deff going to build a mtr with those one day. Really interested to see how 3.05's work out for you. I almooosssst ran an aluminum flywheel last year. Was a toss up between an al flywheel and see if I could still run the 24's or just bolt on the 26's. You can guess who won that contest. I'm still very interested to see how one of our high HP cars would react to a really good twin disc/al flywheel (super light weight) set-up. Going to have to check that out some day as well. I would deff concider a really good set of (lighter than stock) forged steel rods. I know it seems like a waste when your not having problems with the stockers, but really, how much more can these rods take! BTW what are your goals for the new mtr? Running around the same HP/TQ (give or take 10) or uping the power 20-50 HP/TQ? That would answer wether I'd change up the rods or not. :nod:

[2.216VTurbo]

If you put the Aluminum rods in there will we not be able to go for little rides on the street anymore?:evil: If so, I'd so NEVER put those rods in there:amen:

As far as the Fidanza, I'd like to see how it works for you, if you like it you would be the first guy with a 400+WHP car that did that I know of. I've got no love for those things for a high HP car anymore:o If you don't like the way it works, then it would be a unanimous vote and I'll swear to the ends of the earth to anyone who asks that they are only good for mild/mid HP cars.

As far as the 4 bolts go, what do the main bearings look like? Are they wearing nicely or chewing up the #3? Last tear down I did the mains looked so good after 6K miles I just left them and did only the rods. Have the crank shop check it for strait, less then .001-.002 it's doing fine IMO...

[BadAssPerformance]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)

[turbovanman²]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)

Whats "aluninum"?:confused:

I still don't believe aluminum rods should be in a street engine.

[BadAssPerformance]

Sorry, I kant tyep or speel...

I'll let you know how they do :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Sorry, I kant tyep or speel...

I'll let you know how they do :thumb:

Hahhaa, just buggin, ;)

My, my, you like to ventilate blocks, don't you? ;) :nod:

[gasketmaster]

At the very minimum I would replace the connecting rods with a refurbished set like you are currently running because the rods in your engine have a bunch of really hard work cycles on them ;)

If its a race car that gets a few bursts on the street the aluminum rods are fine but if it see's a bit of street driving I'd get a nice set of steel rods. Top fuel engines use aluminum rods......they are very strong and tend to dampen the shock load on the crank,bearings and main webbing. They need to be serviced more than steel rods obviously. If you don't service them.....they'll come out on their own :)

The worked over crank sounds good as long as the work was done well.

Are you getting cap walk now?

[8valves]

I loved my aluminum flywheel. It was one of my favorite things I ever did with my car. Especially with Reeves having a stutter funciton on the launch. Just make it more agressive and you shouldn't have a problem in the world.

Keep in mind Alan that you not only dropped massive weight from the flywheel, but the clutch as well, and moved the mass in closer to the center with the smaller discs. That's a major difference to a heavy single plate setup. You got the double whammy effect!

[GLHSKEN]

And Reeves 2.5 makes WAY more torque than the chassis can handle currently.... For Rods, I would go with the K1's... H beam 100 grams lighter than stock...

[2.216VTurbo]

I loved my aluminum flywheel. It was one of my favorite things I ever did with my car. Especially with Reeves having a stutter funciton on the launch. Just make it more agressive and you shouldn't have a problem in the world.

Keep in mind Alan that you not only dropped massive weight from the flywheel, but the clutch as well, and moved the mass in closer to the center with the smaller discs. That's a major difference to a heavy single plate setup. You got the double whammy effect!

That Tilton set up is using a Steel flywheel and becuse I knew the weight was gonna drop a bunch with the teeny little Tilton, I asked them to make that flywheel 'as heavy as he could'. He did and even added an 'inertia ring' to the outside edge of the back. Still the entire set up lost 9lbs over an iron/4puck/yellow plate set up. What I *really* hated was the Aluminum/RevLock it replaced. Get this, a local guy had slippage with his 4 puck/Fidanza Aluminum set up on his very well built 2.5/GT30 8V motor. He pullled the flywheel out, bead blasted the pp/disc, reinstalled with an Iron flywheel and it's never slipped again.

The K1 rods do make the motor very zippy:eyebrows: And they have survived dozens of miles/laps at 7800 RPMS:clap:

[GLHNSLHT2]

The K1 rods do make the motor very zippy:eyebrows: And they have survived dozens of miles/laps at 7800 RPMS:clap:

Oh great, if K1 rods make the motor zippy I only fear what Ti rods are gonna do...... Gonna be wacking the rev limiter a lot I fear.

[badandy]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)
Tell that to Brian Slowe :p

[badandy]

With most of us having staging limiters (Brian Bucar and I talked about this very thing many months ago) what is the downside to launching with an aluminum flywheel?...if it bogs just step up the RPM some. I could see if someone actually had too big of a slick under the car because you need that momentum...but I really fail to see the downfall anymore.

[Reeves]

This thread is going no where fast!

About the only thing we have agreed on is using the knife edged crank....

[contraption22]

This thread is going no where fast!

About the only thing we have agreed on is using the knife edged crank....

And not using aluminum rods......

[contraption22]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)

With how long his current shortblock has lasted him, I don't think Reeves wants to tear down his motor after every event and measure how much the rods have stretched.

[2.216VTurbo]

This thread is going no where fast!

About the only thing we have agreed on is using the knife edged crank....

Whatchu mean? Lots of good suggestions here so far. Unfortunatly most center around you spending a bazzillion dollars on new rods whaich I don't think has much to do with your original question:(

Is it possible to have your currnet rods checked out and re-prepped for a nominal cost. I know the bolts can be checked for stretch and the big/small ends checked for round but not sure if there is any way to tell how fatigued they are? Crack checked but that's something different...

[Reeves]

Well, let me throw another piece in this equation.....

I have a set of .040" Venoila pistons that have the triple coating stuff (ceramic on top, teflon on the skirts, oil shedding on the underside). The number 2 ring (I think....I'll have to go look) has been converted to gapless. Should I still use the ring set?

[BadAssPerformance]

coated pistons scare me in a turbo engine

[GLHNSLHT2]

why JT?

[2.216VTurbo]

coated pistons scare me in a turbo engine


First dyno day I went to with the 'new' Masi motor 6 years ago I had a fuel supply problem and saw 1800f on the EGT AFTER the turbo:eek:. (ran crappy that day 284WHP at 16PSI) I thought for sure something was gonna melt. Never ran rough or anything after that so the engine stayed together about 6K miles till last month for the Vegas Bash rebuild. The Ceramic coated piston tops (Teflon skirts) were perfect. To my grave I'll swear it was the ceramic that saved them:amen: I haven't heard any horror stories, why do you no likey JT?

[gasketmaster]

Well, let me throw another piece in this equation.....

I have a set of .040" Venoila pistons that have the triple coating stuff (ceramic on top, teflon on the skirts, oil shedding on the underside). The number 2 ring (I think....I'll have to go look) has been converted to gapless. Should I still use the ring set?

Get rid of the gapless rings ;)

[Reeves]

coated pistons scare me in a turbo engine

Reason?


Get rid of the gapless rings ;)

Reason?

[turbovanman²]

Gapless rings blow, I had them in an engine and it NEVER sealed, I had constant blowby issues, and I was warned not to use them but I didn't listen. Stick with what works.

I also agree on coatings, they saved my azz when I nuked my engine, it got so hot I melted the Cometic, pistons, not a mark.

So, use the knife edge crank, get new rods, go 4 bolt mains, and use the Venolia's with regular rings. There, your all set, :nod:

[t3rse]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)

maybe piston speed has something to do with it? :clap:

[gasketmaster]

Reason?

They deflect under extreme conditions and lose their sealing ability ;)

They WILL however give you awesome leakdown numbers.......if you're interested in racing your car while it's not running :p

[gasketmaster]

Are you getting main cap walk at your current power level?

I'm just curious......maybe you don't have the engine apart yet to know :)

[Reeves]

Are you getting main cap walk at your current power level?

I'm just curious......maybe you don't have the engine apart yet to know :)

Engine is on the stand...but I decided to clean up my benches more and more....they are almost completely clear....except for a muffler I was working on for my Sporty last year and never completely finished, and a transaxle for a lawn tractor with a bad bearing that I never got around to rebuilding yet...

[turbovanman²]

They deflect under extreme conditions and lose their sealing ability ;)

They WILL however give you awesome leakdown numbers.......if you're interested in racing your car while it's not running :p

Hahahhaa, how true. 2 cylinders had 0% leakdown, the other 2 were pretty high and you could watch the gauge flutter. :(

[Reeves]

Hmm....so what's the concensus on rings? Good ole sealed power chrome moly? I've been using the Wiseco XX racing rings and have had really good luck with them...but they are different width than stock. I'm assuming the venoila's are stocker sized...guess I need to measure.

[turbovanman²]

Hmm....so what's the concensus on rings? Good ole sealed power chrome moly? I've been using the Wiseco XX racing rings and have had really good luck with them...but they are different width than stock. I'm assuming the venoila's are stocker sized...guess I need to measure.

Wiseco's use their own rings, Venolia's use regular stock size rings. Sealed Power, Perfect Circle, Hastings etc, :nod:

[Directconnection]

Aluninum rods have stretching issues in a 1400hp alcohol pro mod motor... not in a 500hp 4 banger? ;)

8 cylinders vs. 4 makes it almost the same. plus, poor 2.5 rod ratio makes it harder on the rod itself.

James.... if it was a strip only vehicle, go with the aluminum rods. Like Alan said.... strip with occasional street duty, go steel. After doing the machine work on a set of new Eagle rods for a circle track car here, I would go with the K1 rods over the Eagles. Contrary to what some have said about the eagles in another thread, heir balance is just as good as anyone else's. Their HB's usually need resizing right out of the box as they are either out of round, and/or out of spec. That doesn't bother me, but what I don't like about the Eagles are the small ends. They are pretty thin up there as new (but not an issue) but when you open them up for a larger bushing to accept the .912 pins, it's even thinner. That's why I will go with the K1 rods. Otherwise, if money was not my object, go with a custom set of Crower's Maxi-Lite rods ($$$) custom Olivers or Carrillos. I do nothing but work with rods from performance engines all day.

Your crank.... we can custom machine the counterweights down and then balance. I would do this. Then, after balanced, do you balance the flywheel to the crank. Then, index the PP and see when way is best. (PP can throw off the balance as much as just a few grams, to 30+ grams just by indexing)

4-bolts mains... probably not necessary right now, but you never know what an additional 50whp will do.

btw...if machining off some weight from the counterweights, don't go to crazy. Toyota 22RE circle track engine we did had a failure as the customer wanted the counterweights all gone. Crank was balanced at 0 grams, yet the counterweights do add some sort of dampening effect...otherwise they wouldn't have been cast on from the factory in the 1st place.

[BadAssPerformance]

why JT?


Reason?

I have always heard to stay away from coated toped pistons in turbo motors as they act like hypereutectic pistons... they resist failure at first, but once compromized they are more catastrophic in failure.

[turbovanman²]

I have always heard to stay away from coated toped pistons in turbo motors as they act like hypereutectic pistons... they resist failure at first, but once compromized they are more catastrophic in failure.

So far, so good, and as you know, I've had the head of numerous times and no signs of problems, :thumb:

[Reeves]

I've been doing some measruring.....some diringing, some masuring....uh...results tomorow. Wow....ice beer kicsks my ballz@

[turbovanman²]

I've been doing some measruring.....some diringing, some masuring....uh...results tomorow. Wow....ice beer kicsks my ballz@

:needpics1: :ban: :eyebrows:

[1984rampage]

Haha seriously! Ur spelling blows after havin a few drinks :D

[8valves]

Haha seriously! Ur spelling blows after havin a few drinks :D

James' definition of a "few" drinks is different than most... <--- found from experience! :D

[badandy]

James' definition of a "few" drinks is different than most... <--- found from experience! :D
You too huh Aaron?... boy have I ever knocked down some beer with him that's for sure..

Did we ever decide on the aluminum flywheel debate?

[Reeves]

Ah....awake and feeling great!
Sorry about that post....wow...I was trashed. I had gotten some Milwaukee's Best Ice 6 packs of pounders for some reason on my way home from the airport the past two times and I finished them up last night.....wow.... I was in the garage measuring various pistons, rings, wrist pins, etc while on the phone with Menegon.
Then of course had my usual Sam Adams on tap with supper! (boiled wings with homemade buffalo sauce!)

I may be going to .023" over Wiseco's! The pistons that I have been running are .020" Wiseco's and a long time ago I ordered another set for a project car I was working on for a guy and they came in .0035" too big (basically a true .020" over, not .020" over minus the .0035" wall clearance). IF .0035" hone with torque plate is enough to straighten out my bores..then I will go with those.

More to come!

[Reeves]

Tore everything apart yesterday and last night. Rod bearings look kinda funny for not having much run time on them. I just put them in last December or January.

Bores ain't too bad. I'm still going to measure them to see if .0035" is enough to clean them up.

Main bearings look excellent. The thrust bearing is barely worn and the middle main shows almost zero wear.

Also weighed some pistons. I was using a food scale, so results ain't the best.

.040" Venoila Piston with coating 13oz.
Tapered .927" pin for Venoila 4.5oz.
Weighed together 17oz. <not the best scale

.0235" Wiseco Piston 12.5oz.
.901" pin straight for Wiseco 3.5oz.
Weighed together 15.5oz. <not the best scale


Also, some pics of my mess and the bearings:

[Reeves]

Some more

[2.216VTurbo]

Nice work area, everything nice and orderly but there is a Diet Coke on the table:confused: Are you feeling alright?:lol:

Are the bearing shells loose in the caps or do they still stay in fairly well? Maybe Steve or one of the guys who works with rods every day can give idea on that wear pattern. Last teardown I did (6k miles motor) mine were all contacting in the middle instead of edges like yours.

[Reeves]

but there is a Diet Coke on the table:confused: Are you feeling alright?:lol:.

The Diet Coke goes with the slippers that are in the last pic.


Are the bearing shells loose in the caps or do they still stay in fairly well? Maybe Steve or one of the guys who works with rods every day can give idea on that wear pattern. Last teardown I did (6k miles motor) mine were all contacting in the middle instead of edges like yours.


They are still a snug fit.

[amoparacer]

Looks good did you cut off the top of your one piece to port it.?? Looks a little strange.?? If so could you post pics.

Lynn AMOPARACER

[turbovanman²]

What does the lower main bearing shells look like?

You don't run a baffled pan?

For the pics so far, I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

As for the rod bearing, it could be the rod is deflecting, causing the bearing to slightly touch or the crank pin isn't straight.

[Reeves]

Looks good did you cut off the top of your one piece to port it.?? Looks a little strange.?? If so could you post pics.

Lynn AMOPARACER

It was a modified intake made by some crazy Canadians. I have 3.


What does the lower main bearing shells look like?

Very good IMO.


You don't run a baffled pan?

No. I run oil level low and use crank scraper.


For the pics so far, I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

Agreed. I'm going to have the machine shop take a look at the bearings and let me know what they think to be sure.


As for the rod bearing, it could be the rod is deflecting, causing the bearing to slightly touch or the crank pin isn't straight.

My guess is the crank pin is no longer flat. Odd though.

Another odd thing.....the main caps ain't tight in the recess anymore. Where's Slowe's opinion when you need it :thumb:

[contraption22]

My guess is the crank pin is no longer flat. Odd though.

Another odd thing.....the main caps ain't tight in the recess anymore. Where's Slowe's opinion when you need it :thumb:

That happened to one of his blocks as well. His reasoning for going with the billet 4 bolt caps. I would imagine if the caps are not tight in those notches, they could walk.

[Reeves]

That happened to one of his blocks as well. His reasoning for going with the billet 4 bolt caps. I would imagine if the caps are not tight in those notches, they could walk.

Agreed! I remember that was Slowe's reason.

[turbovanman²]

Very good IMO.

A good sign.




No. I run oil level low and use crank scraper.

Ok, didn't know if you ran any of that.




Agreed. I'm going to have the machine shop take a look at the bearings and let me know what they think to be sure.

My guess is the crank pin is no longer flat. Odd though.


The machine shop will know for sure. If the crank pin is ok, then you know its the rods.



Another odd thing.....the main caps ain't tight in the recess anymore. Where's Slowe's opinion when you need it :thumb:

That it really looks like 4 bolt main time.

[Reeves]

Interesting that Rob had such good luck with his aluminum rod 2.4. I was also going to run aluminum rods, but I've since turned away from them. :

Rob switched from aluminum rods to eagle rods last build.


BTW what are your goals for the new mtr? Running around the same HP/TQ (give or take 10) or uping the power 20-50 HP/TQ? That would answer wether I'd change up the rods or not. :nod:

:nx::drum:


Well, let me throw another piece in this equation.....

I have a set of .040" Venoila pistons that have the triple coating stuff (ceramic on top, teflon on the skirts, oil shedding on the underside). The number 2 ring (I think....I'll have to go look) has been converted to gapless. Should I still use the ring set?

I take that back. It is the number 1 ring that is the gapless. It's the 2 piece design where a very thin ring fits in a machined groove of a thick ring.


Get rid of the gapless rings ;)

Still a mixed debate. I run my ring gaps on regular type rings pretty darn big. If I do the same with the gapless, I think I'd be OK and have a little less blow by. Thoughts?

[turbovanman²]

I take that back. It is the number 1 ring that is the gapless. It's the 2 piece design where a very thin ring fits in a machined groove of a thick ring.



Still a mixed debate. I run my ring gaps on regular type rings pretty darn big. If I do the same with the gapless, I think I'd be OK and have a little less blow by. Thoughts?

Thats what I had. Reeves, please don't run gapless, you will be sorry you did.

I should have asked myself this question, how do you expect a wafer oil ring type compression ring to stand 30 plus pounds of boost, :nx: and high egt's. Answer, they don't. Also, they will wear into your ring lands as they flutter.

[Reeves]

Thats what I had. Reeves, please don't run gapless, you will be sorry you did.

I should have asked myself this question, how do you expect a wafer oil ring type compression ring to stand 30 plus pounds of boost, :nx: and high egt's. Answer, they don't. Also, they will wear into your ring lands as they flutter.

True dat. I don't see a oil rail ring working in the number 1 groove.

[SCalder]

James -

I've been running a set of GRP aluminum rods since SDAC 13 (was 13 Memphis?). I'm not sure how many 8000 rpm cycles they've been through, but its more than GRP recommends...lol! But if you are looking for extra piece of mind, then I'd stick with what you know works.

Regarding the flywheel. I tried an aluminum flywheel for a while but pulled it out because it was too difficult to launch the car (even with only drag radials). So I put the stocker back in. Then I tried the aluminum again after going 16V, but with the same result. Now I use a mildly lightened stock flywheel which seems to be the best compromise (and cheap if you have access to a lathe). Sell that aluminum wheel and stash the money into the beer fund!

I'd advise staying away from the gapless rings. My attempt at Total Seal gapless didn't work very well.

I don't have any advice for the 4 bolt mains; just a question. Has anyone attempted using better (or larger) main studs (something like ARP2000) with stock caps? I can't imagine that the caps are flexing based on the bearing wear pattern?

TIFWIW,

Steve

[turbovanman²]

James -

I've been running a set of GRP aluminum rods since SDAC 13 (was 13 Memphis?). I'm not sure how many 8000 rpm cycles they've been through, but its more than GRP recommends...lol! But if you are looking for extra piece of mind, then I'd stick with what you know works.

Regarding the flywheel. I tried an aluminum flywheel for a while but pulled it out because it was too difficult to launch the car (even with only drag radials). So I put the stocker back in. Then I tried the aluminum again after going 16V, but with the same result. Now I use a mildly lightened stock flywheel which seems to be the best compromise (and cheap if you have access to a lathe). Sell that aluminum wheel and stash the money into the beer fund!

I'd advise staying away from the gapless rings. My attempt at Total Seal gapless didn't work very well.

I don't have any advice for the 4 bolt mains; just a question. Has anyone attempted using better (or larger) main studs (something like ARP2000) with stock caps? I can't imagine that the caps are flexing based on the bearing wear pattern?

TIFWIW,

Steve


Good info on the flywheel, thats exactly what I was thinking.

As for the caps, maybe something would have shown up if he made more power or hadn't torn it down at this point.

[BadAssPerformance]

James -

I've been running a set of GRP aluminum rods since SDAC 13 (was 13 Memphis?). I'm not sure how many 8000 rpm cycles they've been through, but its more than GRP recommends...lol! But if you are looking for extra piece of mind, then I'd stick with what you know works.


Memphis was 12... so 2002... good to hear that the GRP rods last :thumb:

[Reeves]

James -

I've been running a set of GRP aluminum rods since SDAC 13 (was 13 Memphis?). I'm not sure how many 8000 rpm cycles they've been through, but its more than GRP recommends...lol! But if you are looking for extra piece of mind, then I'd stick with what you know works.

Stock Rods? LOL


Regarding the flywheel. I tried an aluminum flywheel for a while but pulled it out because it was too difficult to launch the car (even with only drag radials). So I put the stocker back in. Then I tried the aluminum again after going 16V, but with the same result. Now I use a mildly lightened stock flywheel which seems to be the best compromise (and cheap if you have access to a lathe). Sell that aluminum wheel and stash the money into the beer fund!

That's my thought as well. Joe O'Conner tried an aluminum flywheel (which is the one I have now) and it killed his launch. Even with a 6al stage limiter he just couldn't get it out of the hole. Granted, that was/is a 2.2L in a Daytona (race). If I was going to keep the 3.50fd, then I would probably give the aluminum flywheel a shot, but going with 3.05fd, I think it will be overkill.
Steve, do you know about how much weight you cut off the stocker flywheel?


I'd advise staying away from the gapless rings. My attempt at Total Seal gapless didn't work very well.

That seems to be the concensus. Thanks! How do you think they would work on a mild boosted vehicle? Say 15 psi....or 18 psi ?


I don't have any advice for the 4 bolt mains; just a question. Has anyone attempted using better (or larger) main studs (something like ARP2000) with stock caps? I can't imagine that the caps are flexing based on the bearing wear pattern?

TIFWIW,

Steve

The wear pattern looks good IMO. I will have the machine shop give me their thoughts.
I am worried about the caps being a little loose in their groove. Theoretically, the only thing holding them square is the clamping force of the ARP studs.


Good info on the flywheel, thats exactly what I was thinking.

Fidanza also makes a lightened version that I'm assuming is not aluminum. Anyone have info on it?

[turbovanman²]

That seems to be the concensus. Thanks! How do you think they would work on a mild boosted vehicle? Say 15 psi....or 18 psi ?


NO ON A BOOSTED ENGINE Just run regular rings for any boosted engine. :thumb:




Fidanza also makes a lightened version that I'm assuming is not aluminum. Anyone have info on it?

None, sorry.

[turbo2point2]

Another odd thing.....the main caps ain't tight in the recess anymore.

That sounds like what happened to my 2.2, #3 lost it's press fit into the cap register. Might be time to upgrade to the 4 bolt cap.

I would not be afraid to use the GRP rod, I ran these with my 2.2 with zero trouble until the new combo went in the car. With the new combo, I used tubing that was not up to the pressure/temp of hot oil. I take my pressure reading from the front of the block just like stock. After 12 pulls on the dyno, the tubing split on acceleration on the next pull probably somewhere around 7300 rpm. When the tubing split, oil flow to #4 rod ceased. With no pressure and accelerating, the rod destroyed itself and the block after coming apart at 7700 rpm. I found this out after the engine came out. With that said, I did switch to a steel rod for the new engine.

I would steer clear of the gapless rings, I wish there were Hellfire rings available for our bore size.

[2.216VTurbo]

Nice Brian, never saw the full explanation of that little incident till now, thanks for the update.

[turbovanman²]

That sounds like what happened to my 2.2, #3 lost it's press fit into the cap register. Might be time to upgrade to the 4 bolt cap.

I would not be afraid to use the GRP rod, I ran these with my 2.2 with zero trouble until the new combo went in the car. With the new combo, I used tubing that was not up to the pressure/temp of hot oil. I take my pressure reading from the front of the block just like stock. After 12 pulls on the dyno, the tubing split on acceleration on the next pull probably somewhere around 7300 rpm. When the tubing split, oil flow to #4 rod ceased. With no pressure and accelerating, the rod destroyed itself and the block after coming apart at 7700 rpm. I found this out after the engine came out. With that said, I did switch to a steel rod for the new engine.

I would steer clear of the gapless rings, I wish there were Hellfire rings available for our bore size.

Wow, that sucks, :(, any pics? :D

What are Hellfire rings?

[Reaper1]

I tend to agree with everybody else on the aluminum flywheel thing. For me it made the car pretty hard to drive in traffic and launch consistantly at the track. I also ran in to the problem of the steel friction insert overheating and causing the 6-puck ceramic clutch to slip after I cleaned the tires twice I could not launch the car at anything above 4500rpm or the clutch would just let go.

I now have a lightened stock flywheel and a new clutch set-up from TU waiting to go in the car. I'll probably start on it in a few weeks...gotta make sure everything is in order for me to do it...

[Directconnection]

Stock lightened flywheels:

One friend went ballistic with lightening his stocker. He had a very good clutch package, yet it slipped badly. After inspecting his flywheel, I can see why. It had so much material removed that it couldn't pull out any heat, which instantly glazed the clutch. This car was around only 250whp, too... not 350whp.

2ndly... I have seen someone's other attempt at a stock lightened flywheel. It looks like azz as it has random holes drilled around it's circumference. As someone that balances engines for a living, I can tell you it will not be in balance after the pics I have seen.

Have it turned on a lathe and remove material in areas not so much where the disc is at if possible (backside of course) and then have it balanced afterwards.

[glhs0426]

Another odd thing.....the main caps ain't tight in the recess anymore. Where's Slowe's opinion when you need it :thumb:

It's time to measure the main bore. Something has moved. The width of a main cap is very controlled. Has the cap shrunk or the block streched? I don't have those measurements. Is a crack developing that isn't yet visible?


If you don't have another block I've got one stored in Andy's (GLHS441) garage. You can have it.

John

[Reaper1]

Stock lightened flywheels:

One friend went ballistic with lightening his stocker. He had a very good clutch package, yet it slipped badly. After inspecting his flywheel, I can see why. It had so much material removed that it couldn't pull out any heat, which instantly glazed the clutch. This car was around only 250whp, too... not 350whp.

2ndly... I have seen someone's other attempt at a stock lightened flywheel. It looks like azz as it has random holes drilled around it's circumference. As someone that balances engines for a living, I can tell you it will not be in balance after the pics I have seen.

Have it turned on a lathe and remove material in areas not so much where the disc is at if possible (backside of course) and then have it balanced afterwards.

I've seen flywheels lightened both ways. The one I have is from TU. I trust Chris and would think that he would have the things balanced after the mods as he is a very thorough person, just like me in that respect.

[Directconnection]

It's time to measure the main bore. Something has moved. The width of a main cap is very controlled. Has the cap shrunk or the block streched? I don't have those measurements. Is a crack developing that isn't yet visible?

If you don't have another block I've got one stored in Andy's (GLHS441) garage. You can have it.

John

There are tricks around this. Not to be too concerned, though. In a pinch, we "stake" the register where it slightly closes the register by about .001 to .002. It may sound crude, but it gets done on alot of race engines if the press isn't too light. If there's no press.... that's another whole avenue. We weld the ends of the caps, and I mill them for a .002 or so press. Both ways (staking or welding) you WILL need to have the mainline done again.

James, I do suggest the 4-bolt upgrade not just because you might be in that league now, but because you do want your GLH-T to evolve continually. So, do it now, and no need to address this later on down the road... especially ifthe shat hits the fan at the track.

[Shadow]

It was a modified intake made by some crazy Canadians. I have 3. :thumb:

Gotta watch out for those Crazy Canucks! :lol:

[Shadow]

:nx::drum:

In that case go with the 4 bolt mains for sure! In the last 12 years I've heard 0 good about running gappless rings in a boosted application. No experiance myself, but like everyone else is saying.....Don't do it! :eek:

[Reeves]

That sounds like what happened to my 2.2, #3 lost it's press fit into the cap register. Might be time to upgrade to the 4 bolt cap.

Is it really supposed to be a press fit? I don't remember it ever being a press fit...not to say that it wasn't. It's no where near a press fit, or any type of interference fit anymore. I can slide them on and off with one finger.

I have some other blocks on engine stands that I can check the fit on.


I would not be afraid to use the GRP rod, I ran these with my 2.2 with zero trouble until the new combo went in the car. With the new combo, I used tubing that was not up to the pressure/temp of hot oil. I take my pressure reading from the front of the block just like stock. After 12 pulls on the dyno, the tubing split on acceleration on the next pull probably somewhere around 7300 rpm. When the tubing split, oil flow to #4 rod ceased. With no pressure and accelerating, the rod destroyed itself and the block after coming apart at 7700 rpm. I found this out after the engine came out. With that said, I did switch to a steel rod for the new engine.

Wow! Thanks for clearing that up!
If you had a choice of a steel rod or an aluminum rod for your next engine...having the aluminum's on hand already, which would you choose?


Wow, that sucks, :(, any pics? :D

What are Hellfire rings?

Only the best rings known to man! Many moons ago my machine shop tried to get some custom ordered with no luck... :( Maybe time to try again.


I trust Chris and would think that he would have the things balanced after the mods as he is a very thorough person, just like me in that respect.

[Reeves]

If you don't have another block I've got one stored in Andy's (GLHS441) garage. You can have it.

John

PM'd!

[GLHSKEN]

I've got some as well james..

[turbo2point2]

Wow, that sucks, , any pics?

What are Hellfire rings?

Don't want to hijack with pics, so here is a link, http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23007&page=8

Post #150 has the lower end pics. The hellfire ring is just as James had posted, very high quality, used in engines that see tons of nitrous, boost, and lots of cylinder pressure. I wonder if they would be willing to make some smaller sizes. I think the smallest they currently produce is 3.500"-.060 overbore for our engines.


If you had a choice of a steel rod or an aluminum rod for your next engine...having the aluminum's on hand already, which would you choose?

I'm not sure if I would ever go back to an aluminum rod for my engine.


Is it really supposed to be a press fit? I don't remember it ever being a press fit...not to say that it wasn't. It's no where near a press fit, or any type of interference fit anymore. I can slide them on and off with one finger.


Yes, it should be a press fit. As said, without it the cap now has a better chance of walking. I would seriously look at 4 bolt mains as a must have.

[Shadow]

I'm not sure if I would ever go back to an aluminum rod for my engine.

Could you elaborate on this a bit. What steel rods did you go with, what was the difference in weight? Notice any difference in the way the mtr revs up?

[ohiorob]

I really like the aluminum rods.
I ran the GRP rods and JE pistons for 5 years. the only reason i replaced them was that i torched a piston '' my stupid fault :banghead: '' and i also torched the rod. theres about a 1000+ miles of street on them and 5 years of drag strip abuse. one thing that was happining, the small ends started to egg shape and would needed replaced soon anyway.

Cindy gave me a super good deal on the eagle rods and wiseco pistons. so thats the only reason I'm running the eagle rods. i'm thinking that the rods are good for 600hp and about 7500rpm.

[Reaper1]

James, I saw you'd quoated what I'd said about my TU flywheel....was there supposed to be anything with that or were you just restating what I posted? Just wondering...

[turbo2point2]

Could you elaborate on this a bit. What steel rods did you go with, what was the difference in weight? Notice any difference in the way the mtr revs up?

When I built the engine I wasn't worried so much about rod maintenance. If it needed rods every 2-3 seasons, so be it. The motor would owe me nothing after that long anyway. Fast forward to today(with new baby), I needed something I knew would take the abuse and not need the kind of maintenance an aluminum rod would. For the current engine I chose Olivers, they weigh 588.8 each but I am unsure of the difference(don't have my notes). The motor doesn't feel any different to me as far as revs are concerned.

[turbovanman²]

I did this awhile ago, measured some stock stuff, lightened stock stuff and Eagle rods, different pistons.

588 oz's are lighter than the stockers, :thumb:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13556

[Reeves]

Just got back from the machine shop. Left about 1pm or so, with all the snow and ice we got...it took a little while (usually about 40 minutes from here). Although, I was there for probably about an hour.

Here's what we decided:

.0035" was probably enough to clean up the bores. So I *could* use the Wiseco pistons I have.

Cropper's Racing Engines REALLY likes using aluminum rods in a blown engine. But, the GRP's I have are machined for a .927" pin. So if I used them, I'll have to use the .040" Venoila pistons...which they also like for a blown motor.

Cropper's agreed I am now needing 4 bolt mains.

SO....

Old block will be machined .040" over, using coated Venoila pistons, GRP aluminum rods, knife edged crank with balanced flywheel. I have to get a set of 4 bolt mains soon.
Cropper's is going to try to get custom HellFire rings, if not, chrome-moly Speed-Pro's will be used.


Ken....also saw your K1's being machined.

[Shadow]

Just got back from the machine shop. Left about 1pm or so, with all the snow and ice we got...it took a little while (usually about 40 minutes from here). Although, I was there for probably about an hour.

Here's what we decided:

.0035" was probably enough to clean up the bores. So I *could* use the Wiseco pistons I have.

Cropper's Racing Engines REALLY likes using aluminum rods in a blown engine. But, the GRP's I have are machined for a .927" pin. So if I used them, I'll have to use the .040" Venoila pistons...which they also like for a blown motor.

Cropper's agreed I am now needing 4 bolt mains.

SO....

Old block will be machined .040" over, using coated Venoila pistons, GRP aluminum rods, knife edged crank with balanced flywheel. I have to get a set of 4 bolt mains soon.
Cropper's is going to try to get custom HellFire rings, if not, chrome-moly Speed-Pro's will be used.


Ken....also saw your K1's being machined.

Sounds good James, keep us in the loop on the rings, if they could work something out on the Hellfires.........:eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

SO....

Old block will be machined .040" over, using coated Venoila pistons, GRP aluminum rods, knife edged crank with balanced flywheel. I have to get a set of 4 bolt mains soon.
Cropper's is going to try to get custom HellFire rings, if not, chrome-moly Speed-Pro's will be used.


Ken....also saw your K1's being machined.


Interesting, good update. Did they say why they prefer the aluminium rods, is it because they take less abuse being boosted?

If they do get Hellfire rings, can you get a price? Thanks.

Found this on them-

http://www.federal-mogul.com/en/AftermarketSolutions/Asia-Pacific/EngineSolutions/Products/PistonRings/Speed-ProPistons/

[8valves]

Sounds like a good plan. Let me know if I can be of any assistance bud! :)

[8valves]

Interesting, good update. Did they say why they prefer the aluminium rods, is it because they take less abuse being boosted?



Usually because they'll take more. As in, the super high cylinder pressures we run, as well as really any power adder car; when the motor pings the piston hard enough if it lives the rod will help take up the shock instead of hammering the rod bearing and messing even more up.

[Reeves]

Sounds good James, keep us in the loop on the rings, if they could work something out on the Hellfires.........:eyebrows:

Will do! They have tried for me before though.....


Interesting, good update. Did they say why they prefer the aluminium rods, is it because they take less abuse being boosted?

If they do get Hellfire rings, can you get a price? Thanks.

Found this on them-

http://www.federal-mogul.com/en/AftermarketSolutions/Asia-Pacific/EngineSolutions/Products/PistonRings/Speed-ProPistons/

See mine and Aaron's comments about the aluminum rods below.

If they can't get 1 set of HellFire rings, I'll see if they could possible get like 10 or 20 sets.

Yeah...nice read on the rings!


Sounds like a good plan. Let me know if I can be of any assistance bud! :)

You know it!


Usually because they'll take more. As in, the super high cylinder pressures we run, as well as really any power adder car; when the motor pings the piston hard enough if it lives the rod will help take up the shock instead of hammering the rod bearing and messing even more up.

Dead on!

[GLHSKEN]

Hmmm... K1's being machined, what were they doing to them? BTW, K1's weigh 600...

[Reeves]

Re-sizing....no biggie. Any rod would need checked and re-sized even if they are new.

[2.216VTurbo]

Re-sizing....no biggie. Any rod would need checked and re-sized even if they are new.

I had to have my K1's rebushed to handle the .912 Wiseco pins. They were at .907 when I bought them new but the bushing was a bit thin even at that. Big ends were checked by shop but were perfectly round and didn't need any work. Balance was perfect too:thumb: I think I am starting to like the idea of .866 pins on the next motor, they are becoming increasingly popular, are handling big power in supercharged Fords and weigh less then the others:thumb:

[Reeves]

I had to have my K1's rebushed to handle the .912 Wiseco pins. They were at .907 when I bought them new but the bushing was a bit thin even at that. Big ends were checked by shop but were perfectly round and didn't need any work. Balance was perfect too:thumb: I think I am starting to like the idea of .866 pins on the next motor, they are becoming increasingly popular, are handling big power in supercharged Fords and weigh less then the others:thumb:

My next motor will probably use .866" pins
Manley Rods Pro Series Turbo Tuff "I" Beam Steel
Manley Pro Series connecting rods are forged from aircraft quality 4340 vacuum degassed material. Each Manley rod is fully machined in the Manley Lakewood, NJ factory to the highest standards. Manley Rods signature "Turbo Tuff" design combines the appropriate weight and rugged strength for ultimate horsepower applications. Each Manley rod is shot peened after machining and magnafluxed. Manley Rod Bores are round and without taper. Manley Rods Bend and twist is tightly controlled. Cap fasteners are 3/8" APR 2000 cap screws.


Forged from 4340 aircraft quality vacuum degassed material
Shot peened after machining and 100% magnafluxed
Cap fasteners are 3/8" ARP 2000 cap screws
Specifically designed to handle high horsepower applications when using turbos and/or nitrous.
Horsepower range for these rods is 1,000+ H.P.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/man-14420-4

[Directconnection]

Typically, Manley products are not superior. Any rod will "tout" all kinds of impressive facts and figures. Eagle can make their rods sound like they are engineered by NASA. I'd say manley is a step or two above Eagle.

You want a kick arse rod... contact Crower for their Maxi-Lite series. Lightest steel rod anywheres. Contact Oliver, or Carrillo.

Reeves... I am speaking from experience. I am not "bench racing" or giving 3rd hand internet forum info. either.

[Reeves]

I totally understand.....but I have heard some pretty good things about the Manley SRT rods.

Why do you say that some rods are not superior compared to others? Are you basing that off of weight? out or round? length? breakage? Please explain.

I guess I'm saying, I don't care if they need machined and/or re-sized....but if they break, or are heavy, then that's different.

[turbovanman²]

I totally understand.....but I have heard some pretty good things about the Manley SRT rods.

Why do you say that some rods are not superior compared to others? Are you basing that off of weight? out or round? length? breakage? Please explain.

I guess I'm saying, I don't care if they need machined and/or re-sized....but if they break, or are heavy, then that's different.

To me, it seems he's meaning cost vs quality. I would think TU's K1 rods for $500 are superior than the $700 Manleys.

The Eagle SRT rods come in .866 pin, :D

[Shadow]

My next motor will probably use .866" pins
Manley Rods Pro Series Turbo Tuff "I" Beam Steel
Manley Pro Series connecting rods are forged from aircraft quality 4340 vacuum degassed material. Each Manley rod is fully machined in the Manley Lakewood, NJ factory to the highest standards. Manley Rods signature "Turbo Tuff" design combines the appropriate weight and rugged strength for ultimate horsepower applications. Each Manley rod is shot peened after machining and magnafluxed. Manley Rod Bores are round and without taper. Manley Rods Bend and twist is tightly controlled. Cap fasteners are 3/8" APR 2000 cap screws.


Forged from 4340 aircraft quality vacuum degassed material
Shot peened after machining and 100% magnafluxed
Cap fasteners are 3/8" ARP 2000 cap screws
Specifically designed to handle high horsepower applications when using turbos and/or nitrous.
Horsepower range for these rods is 1,000+ H.P.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/man-14420-4

Damn, you could write an advertisment for Manley the way you layed that out! :D I've also heard really good things about these rods. We were originally going to go with Olivers for the bro' 2.4, but after waiting for 3-4 months for some rods to show up we ended up going with the Manley's. 1000WHP rods :thumb: pretty sure we'll be O.K. bottom end wise.:eyebrows:

[Directconnection]

I totally understand.....but I have heard some pretty good things about the Manley SRT rods.

Why do you say that some rods are not superior compared to others? Are you basing that off of weight? out or round? length? breakage? Please explain.

I guess I'm saying, I don't care if they need machined and/or re-sized....but if they break, or are heavy, then that's different.

Manley makes an SRT-4 rod? I didn't know that. I thought you were choosing to go with a custom ordered spec rod. Maybe that's not too bad of a choice then. But all out durability, quality, etc... I'd go with Crower or Oliver.

Whenever we get a new set of rods, no matter which brand they are, we always have to check the sizing on them. The last few sets of Eagle H-beams I worked on, I had to re-size right out of the box. They were WAY out of round, and to tell you the truth.... they weren't checking too straight, either. Crowers, Olivers, even Manleys almost always check right on. We build these new LS2 Crate "spec" engines for the Busch series (East) and they use Manley forged cranks and rods. These I-beam Manley rods they use are of good quality, though.

I think Eagle is going further down the tubes. Last week alone, I had to re-size 2 sets of brand new out of the box H-beams for a BB Chevy, and another custom set for a 400 Pontiac stroker. Their HB's were out of spec and out of round. Not dead nuts straight, either. AND.... I had to machine .050 off each side of the small end as there was only .005" clearance by the piston on the Ponhco 400 set. To top it off.... the stroker crank for the 400 was a poor casting (yes, they chose a cast stroker crank) and Eagle heavily WELDED the counter weight where the poor casting was, and tried to disguise it. Then, shotpeened the crank AFTER they ground it. Tried hiding it again by polishing the journals.

One thing people do not know: they order their shat via Summit. Get JE pistons w/.927 pins, Eagle Rods, and and Eagle crank. Well.... pins vary a bit. (.9266 to .9273) You could have only .0002 to .0009" clearance on the pistons and/or rods. Always verify what you got before assembling. This was an Eagle 383 stroker lit last year that was all in one box. You'd think they'd check the kit for clearances before shipping!

What's even gheyer with eagle is their damn stickers! Seesh... invest in something better than junior high artwork for their logo/stickers. To top it off, they never include the keys in the snout on their cranks, yet all other crank companies do. Rod and main journals out of round and with taper... but, in my 440.... I will probably go with Eagle due to cost savings vs. hp output.

{eagle rant off}

Rod makes vs superiority: basically due to design, forgings, machining... overall quality.

All I have to say is pick up just one SBC Crower Maxi-Lite rod and you will understand. (instant nipple-hard-on) Call Menegon... we both have discussed these rods as he contemplated using them himself. Probably not cheap, though, as a SBC set are $2,200.

But, maybe you're right.... those Manley SRT rods might be pretty good. I've just seen some lower line Manley stuff, along with some really good top of their line stuff, too.

[gasketmaster]

We build these new LS2 Crate "spec" engines for the Busch series (East) and they use Manley forged cranks and rods. These I-beam Manley rods they use are of good quality, though.

Are those the Carl Wegner spec engines?

The guy that did my head works on those things out here.....pretty cool stuff :)

[Directconnection]

Are those the Carl Wegner spec engines?

The guy that did my head works on those things out here.....pretty cool stuff :)

Name sounds familiar.

Here' a link to a thread I started that has a little bit of info/pics of this engine in question. The spec engine is on page 2.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18739&highlight=nascar+busch+east+crate+engine

We built about 5 of these so far. 600+hp crate engine.

I just realized though.... the rods are Lunati, not Manley! I stand corrected....

[Reaper1]

Just to throw a wrench in the gapless ring debate...didn't Warren Stramer say he was using gapless rings? I'm fairly sure he did....

[turbovanman²]

Just to throw a wrench in the gapless ring debate...didn't Warren Stramer say he was using gapless rings? I'm fairly sure he did....

If he is, he'd be the only successful one, :o

[Shadow]

If he is, he'd be the only successful one, :o

That would be news to me. :confused2:

[Warren Stramer]

I did use total seal gapless for about four seasons or aprox. 250 runs, when I freshened the engine I installed sealed power, made no difference, both worked the same. Total seal will fix you up with ANY ring package you want.

And about the .866 pins mensioned above, been running them since 2000, no wear or sign of flex, and very light.

[turbovanman²]

That would be news to me. :confused2:

Your running gapless too? :confused:

My statement still stands earlier, how in the world can you expect a wafer thin ring to seal at stupid pressures? Maybe they work if you have the tune bang on?

Either way, for the money, not worth it IMHO.

[Shadow]

Your running gapless too? :confused:

Negative, I was responding to the comment about Warren running them. :)

[Reeves]

I did use total seal gapless for about four seasons or aprox. 250 runs, when I freshened the engine I installed sealed power, made no difference, both worked the same. Total seal will fix you up with ANY ring package you want.

And about the .866 pins mensioned above, been running them since 2000, no wear or sign of flex, and very light.


Thanks for the info Warren!

:thumb:

[amoparacer]

Hey Rob I sent you my E mail for the manifold pics but here it is sorry for the Hi Jack Reeves.
amoparacer@yahoo.com

[Rampage16V]

James I had grp rods in my 2.5 hybrid motor after 4 years they failed....was reving about 7500 when one let go. Looked like it pull the bolt right out of the rod...Also seen a stock rod break the same way and also winder the block in the same hole #4.

[Reeves]

Hopefully I won't be taking this motor much past 7000. I've had the top rev limiter set at 7100 for the past couple years.

I got the block back home and on the engine stand. I'll grab pics when I get back home from working in Vermont. Baker...are you on here?

Couple of notes:
Just like OhioRob had told me...had to notch the block quit a bit even with a .040" bore to use the aluminum rods on a 2.4 or in my case a 2.5.

Couldn't use the center 4 bolt main without some extra machine work for the thrust bearing....my machine shop didn't think it would be necessary. So I'm running 1 stock, 2 is 4 bolt, 3 (thrust) stock, 4 is a 4 bolt, 5 is stock.

Machine shop cut some interesting little grooves on the ends of the 4bolt main caps. I'll try to shoot some pics. Not sure what for, didn't see them till I got home.

[8valves]

For the record, those aren't my 4 bolt mains. ;)

[turbovanman²]

So you went with the GRP rods? Interesting.

I think Don had the same issue with the thrust bearing so either FWD sent him the right one or my machine shop fixed it.

[csxtra]

I think Don had the same issue with the thrust bearing so either FWD sent him the right one or my machine shop fixed it.

For Reeves/Fleck:
Don!!!

[turbovanman²]

for reeves/fleck:
don!!!

huh???!!!!!!!

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Couldn't use the center 4 bolt main without some extra machine work for the thrust bearing....my machine shop didn't think it would be necessary. So I'm running 1 stock, 2 is 4 bolt, 3 (thrust) stock, 4 is a 4 bolt, 5 is stock.

Think that's a good idea running a stick with a heavy pressure plate?
I know the stock was running just fine
but you paid for the good caps, it'll cost some more for th emachine work
but your already there, just do it , you gotta line hone it too, so might as well but it in now, not like you can bolt it on later
just a thought

[contraption22]

Couldn't use the center 4 bolt main without some extra machine work for the thrust bearing....my machine shop didn't think it would be necessary. So I'm running 1 stock, 2 is 4 bolt, 3 (thrust) stock, 4 is a 4 bolt, 5 is stock.



Isn't that center one the most critical to have the extra bolts? We were down at Brian Slowe's shop on Saturday and we were looking at his old block, the one that lost the press fit on the mains. That journal seems to be the one that is most likely to move around because it has less "meat" in the block where the front main bolt goes into the bloc.

[turbovanman²]

Think that's a good idea running a stick with a heavy pressure plate?
I know the stock was running just fine
but you paid for the good caps, it'll cost some more for th emachine work
but your already there, just do it , you gotta line hone it too, so might as well but it in now, not like you can bolt it on later
just a thought

I gotta agree on that, why only go half assed. I know you Kentuckian's are a weird bunch, :p

[Reeves]

Looking at the 4 bolt that didn't fit, it was too wide for the thurst bearing. It looks as if it could have just been machined down to work.

It's too late to add it. Motor is line bored and assembled.

I wish the machine shop would have called me before they line bored with only 2 of the 3 caps. Oh well... :yuck:

I do think though that it will be OK without it for now. Next build I'll use all 3 as I'll have this one machined down to fit the thrust bearing.

I was debating on using 4 bolt mains or not in the beginning of this thread, and then decided to use them, and only used 2. So I guess it is still better than it was....

[contraption22]

I was debating on using 4 bolt mains or not in the beginning of this thread, and then decided to use them, and only used 2. So I guess it is still better than it was....

You're right. It will still probably lessen the strain on the #3.

[BadAssPerformance]

That depends, its a stick car, #3 thrust main does quite a bit of work!

[Reeves]

That depends, its a stick car, #3 thrust main does quite a bit of work!

Well, it does 2 different jobs. Not necessarily more work at 1 job though.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, ok, you got me there...

[Reeves]

LOL, ok, you got me there...

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or anything... Just typing out what I was thinking....lol.

[contraption22]

^^^^ nice new sig pic. I think that pic will be displayed in my humble cubicle tomorrow.

...oi....oi....oi....

[Reeves]

^^^^ nice new sig pic. I think that pic will be displayed in my humble cubicle tomorrow.

...oi....oi....oi....

Thanks!

I couldn't get it figured out how to move it around like JT's. Off to an interview now though!

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmm... lemme see ;)

[turbovanman²]

Thats a pic of a lifetime, how the hell did your camera guy happen to be at the right spot and the right time, :confused: :clap:

[Directconnection]

Thats a pic of a lifetime, how the hell did your camera guy happen to be at the right spot and the right time, :confused: :clap:

he was in another car....

[Directconnection]

Looking at the 4 bolt that didn't fit, it was too wide for the thurst bearing. It looks as if it could have just been machined down to work.

It's too late to add it. Motor is line bored and assembled.

I wish the machine shop would have called me before they line bored with only 2 of the 3 caps. Oh well... :yuck:

I do think though that it will be OK without it for now. Next build I'll use all 3 as I'll have this one machined down to fit the thrust bearing.

I was debating on using 4 bolt mains or not in the beginning of this thread, and then decided to use them, and only used 2. So I guess it is still better than it was....

I've had to convert some BB Pontiacs to 4-bolt mains and the thrust areas are wide on purpose so the machinist can custom fit them precisely. It is a PITA! But, I've always got them dead on. What sucks is if you screw up... then it's junk.

[GLHNSLHT2]

James, do you have a high res larger image of your Omni in your sig so I can use it as my desktop backround? I LOVE the S10 airdam :)

[turbovanman²]

he was in another car....

Thanks captain obvious, :rolleyes:

[Reeves]

Thats a pic of a lifetime, how the hell did your camera guy happen to be at the right spot and the right time, :confused: :clap:

AT 30 psi my wastegate opens.......


he was in another car....

LMFAOCOPTER!!!!! :thumb:


I've had to convert some BB Pontiacs to 4-bolt mains and the thrust areas are wide on purpose so the machinist can custom fit them precisely. It is a PITA! But, I've always got them dead on. What sucks is if you screw up... then it's junk.

Or if you don't use it at all, then you don't have to worry about scrapping it I guess..... :( I really wish they would have called me before.......


James, do you have a high res larger image of your Omni in your sig so I can use it as my desktop backround? I LOVE the S10 airdam :)

Yes.


Thanks captain obvious, :rolleyes:

LOL.

[2.216VTurbo]

Thanks!

I couldn't get it figured out how to move it around like JT's. Off to an interview now though!

Probation officer?;)

[BadAssPerformance]

probation officer?;)

:lol: BURN! :D

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks!

I couldn't get it figured out how to move it around like JT's. Off to an interview now though!

Like yer new avatar? :D I had to cuz I I dig yer tag line :thumb:


James, do you have a high res larger image of your Omni in your sig so I can use it as my desktop backround? I LOVE the S10 airdam :)

+1 for a higher res pic! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

+1 for a higher res pic! :thumb:

I agree, would love to have that, :nod:

[Reeves]

Like yer new avatar? :D I had to cuz I I dig yer tag line :thumb:



+1 for a higher res pic! :thumb:

Love the new Avatar!
That tag line has been there for about a week or so...LOL!
Can you move my pic to the right like yours?
How do I get your guys higher res pics?

[BadAssPerformance]

Love the new Avatar!
That tag line has been there for about a week or so...LOL!
Can you move my pic to the right like yours?
How do I get your guys higher res pics?

Glad you like it :thumb:

Wonder who's gonna pick up the next line? :D

PM me a link to where the pic is hosted.

attach the higher res one or e-mail it to me...

[Pat]

[QUOTE=BadAssPerformance;449566]

Wonder who's gonna pick up the next line? :D

QUOTE]

Hi guys.

[BadAssPerformance]

Hi guys.

Hell yeah! :thumb:

Got a higher res pic of your avatar I can play with? ;)

[Pat]

Hell yeah! :thumb:

Got a higher res pic of your avatar I can play with? ;)

Sure...can I email it to you from home later? Send your email.

[csxtra]

Or, James may be able to put it in the gallery. What is the limit on file sizes?

[Reeves]

Or, James may be able to put it in the gallery. What is the limit on file sizes?

That's better than "I ate a grape and I..."

I'm not hosting the picture. I had it on my hard drive and uploaded it.

[t3rse]

is it me or does your driver door sag a little? mine does and I have no idea how to fix it

["Top Fuel" Bender]

is it me or does your driver door sag a little? mine does and I have no idea how to fix it


twisted hehehe
gotta heat up the hinges and bend it around, very very carefully

[GLHS60]

is it me or does your driver door sag a little? mine does and I have no idea how to fix it

If you promise to practice on a junk car I'll tell you how to adjust a sagging door. What picture are you refering to??

Thanks
Randy

[Reeves]

is it me or does your driver door sag a little? mine does and I have no idea how to fix it

"so much tork, the chassis twisted coming off the line....." -Diesel

[contraption22]

"so much tork, the chassis twisted coming off the line....." -Diesel

Was that just before the crash in turn 2 in a ProStock race?

[t3rse]

started thread: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=449769#post449769

I was referring to the large version of the sig pic where the glint off the trim recess appears to be a little off at the door...the pic of mine in the thread above is much worse.

[Directconnection]

Thanks captain obvious, :rolleyes:

Well... someone must spell it out for you: Captain and Tenille you phag.

[turbovanman²]

Well... someone must spell it out for you: Captain and Tenille you phag.

Again, I got that part, again, captain obvious, :(

[black86glhs]

Well... someone must spell it out for you: Captain and Tenille you phag.


Again, I got that part, again, captain obvious, :(You 2 get a room.:love:

[GLHSKEN]

^^^^^ Bad mental image to start a day with

[Reeves]

Got a little done tonight.
Front crank seal installed
Crank sprocket installed
TDC verified to make sure my mark is still on
Crank scraper marked for modification

[BadAssPerformance]

Reeves like his rods big and girthy with extra mayo :D

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13673&d=1238121264

[Reeves]

I got a little excited about working on it again! Sorry for the extra mayo...

[Directconnection]

Crisco, or Jizz......?

[2.216VTurbo]

I was looking at all that assembly lube thinking why does he have paper towels shoved in there?:confused: Took a couple looks to realize that's assembly lube... You get that stuff for free do you?:D

[Rampage16V]

Just don't wait til they break to throw out those rods lol! I was good for 4 years of racing or so.
If you want any spares I have 3 !!!

["Top Fuel" Bender]

I got a little excited about working on it again! Sorry for the extra mayo...

that's Reeves' big secret
No oil there for no oil pump, less drag !!!
that's why I tow dolly the omni
pre-warm the rear wheel bearings :thumb:
I know a jeep racer that runs sealed bearings in the transfer case and
uses bar and chain lube spray (chainsaw oil) on the gears

[Reeves]

Just don't wait til they break to throw out those rods lol! I was good for 4 years of racing or so.
If you want any spares I have 3 !!!

Figured I'd check them out in a couple of years....at the same time I'll be checking my trans bearings...LOL.

Yeah, I might be interested in the other 3.

[Reeves]

Getting there!!!!

Check out the reason you should run a turbo oil filter....

Also check out MOM REEVES cleaning my oil pan!!! GO MOM!!!!

Anyone know where to get new head/block dowel pins? I measured .231" on both of them. That doesn't convert to metric well either. I'd like to get some fresh ones.....

[Reaper1]

Wow, I wouldn't be able to explain to my mom why it's important to clean it much less get her to volunteer to do it! She just doesn't understand our hobby.. :(

[black86glhs]

Getting there!!!!

Check out the reason you should run a turbo oil filter....

Also check out MOM REEVES cleaning my oil pan!!! GO MOM!!!!

Anyone know where to get new head/block dowel pins? I measured .231" on both of them. That doesn't convert to metric well either. I'd like to get some fresh ones.....Crack the whip on her to get it done.....LOL.

[Reaper1]

Crack the whip on her to get it done.....LOL.

You're funny! She'd kick my @ss if I even tried that, not to mention she's not even on the same continent!

[GLHSKEN]

I like that experimental "modular transmission" in the pick with your mom

[Ondonti]

What remote oil filter kit is that?

[glhs727]

Getting there!!!!

Check out the reason you should run a turbo oil filter....

Also check out MOM REEVES cleaning my oil pan!!! GO MOM!!!!..

Geez..... you have your parents whipped.....Your Dad cuts your lawn and your Mom cleans your car parts....well at least you gave your Mom some gloves LOL.... and I can't believe she is wearing a white sweatshirt and white shoes.

[Reeves]

I like that experimental "modular transmission" in the pick with your mom

Yeah....nice huh? The big blue box used to have my spare crank, my aluminum rods, Venoilas, etc, in it. It now has that modular transmission in it and will soon have all the leftovers from dismantled 520's 525's, etc. The transmission spare parts box :thumb:


What remote oil filter kit is that?

I'm pretty sure it was this one:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Perma-Cool/771/10795/10002/-1

But I think I added (2) 90 degree fittings to the block mount. I used to have a overheating problem on the highway when I was runnning a custom radiator. I added the dual remote oil filter mount with (2) big filters and the filter coolers. It helped, but another radiator fixed the problem.



Geez..... you have your parents whipped.....Your Dad cuts your lawn and your Mom cleans your car parts....well at least you gave your Mom some gloves LOL.... and I can't believe she is wearing a white sweatshirt and white shoes.


Dad's almost retired, and his hobby is working on lawns (mowing, fertilizing, dethatching, weed-eating, etc), detailing cars, and drinking mass quantities of beer. I've been in my current house for about 6 years now, and I think I've mowed the yard once or twice myself. :amen: It's been mowed twice this year already! And fertilized! Oh, and my van is spit shined and ready for Spring Fling tomorrow!!!! :thumb:

Mom came out in her garage clothes last night to help me clean the garage up for tonights festivities! Then she thumbed through my tire rack catalog to find Hawk brake pads she wants for her new Jeep. LOL!!! :thumb:

[contraption22]

Mom and Dad Reeves are awesome.

[Gaboon]

:nx::drum:





Hehe..


That is all.

[John B]

NO ON A BOOSTED ENGINE Just run regular rings for any boosted engine. :thumb:




None, sorry.

I'm getting a little hard of hearing with age, but do I understand from the subtlety of your post that you don't recommend Total Seal gapless rings? I'm thinking of using them in the second position with a normal ring on top. Opinions? Please don't shout, I startle easily. :p

[puppet]

Don't do it John. In the second position, gasses will upset the upper ring seal once they pass that ring and get trapped by the second (TS) ring. I look at it this way ... multiply **ring gap it a HOT cylinder x's the piston to wall clearance = how much space blowby has to work with. **(not the cold gap you used when installing the rings)

I think that it's really rare that somebody checks their leakdown with a HOT engine around here. If they did they'd find very little under those conditions .. (regular ring properly fit in the bore with an appropriate gap). As a ring wears the gap will open up. That's pretty much what a leakdown test is all about. An A/B ring seal comparison over an engines life.

It shouldn't be used to ascertain ring seal alone and certainly not under cold engine conditions. There are signifantly higher pressures present in the cylinder of a running engine than the 100psi used in a standard LD test. Pressure aids in ring seal. So, always take those test values with a grain of salt.

[turbovanman²]

I'm getting a little hard of hearing with age, but do I understand from the subtlety of your post that you don't recommend Total Seal gapless rings? I'm thinking of using them in the second position with a normal ring on top. Opinions? Please don't shout, I startle easily. :p

Hahhahaha, well I used a set, worse mistake ever. I couldn't keep oil in the engine, every seal leaked, I had to vent the engine in numerous places so the blowby could escape. I did a leakdown test, you could hear the rings flutter then go from 50% or more leakdown to 0%. I finally rerung it with regular rings, no more leaking oil. The rings just couldn't take the heat and warped, melted and slightly damaged the ring lands.