odd problem with A413 - no reverse

[JohnnyLightning86]

Hey guys,
Wednesday night the oddest thing happened all of sudden. I lost reverse and it sometimes does not want start off from first gear in the Drive position. However, if I put the shifter into 1st manually it works just fine. I am guessing this may be a cable or linkage problem. Anyone concur with that? Or does it sound like it is going out?

Thanks,
Mike

[GLHSKEN]

Check fluid level... I had a car that did not want to downshift and had to manually put it in 1st each time. Has something to do with a sticking weight?? From about 5 mph everyone said put it in park... let it rattle it loose.

[87csx2.4]

Hey guys,
Wednesday night the oddest thing happened all of sudden. I lost reverse and it sometimes does not want start off from first gear in the Drive position. However, if I put the shifter into 1st manually it works just fine. I am guessing this may be a cable or linkage problem. Anyone concur with that? Or does it sound like it is going out?

Thanks,
MikeYou've probably lost the low/reverse band either it broke or it is just worn out.Either way it time to pull the trans.

[JohnnyLightning86]

It downshifts fine. It starts off in first gear just fine. It just does not want to fully engage in reverse or fully engage in first when the gear selector is in the D position. Whe I move it down to 1, no problem. Plus, it has had some issue moving the selector from Reverse to Park and feels more like a cable problem as if the cable is stretching or is stretched.

[JohnnyLightning86]

I seemed to have fixed the problem. Dropped the pan, changed the fluid and filter and adjusted the Low-Reverse band. Works like a charm now.

[turbovanman²]

89Shelby2.4 hit the nail on the head. Sorry a bit late but a loose band or broken band, bent strut will give you the problem you had. My old trans, the stock strut was bent in half and this almost caused the apply piston to come out of its hole, I will post the pics one day.

[ShelGame]

Just digging up an old thread - the same thing has apparently happened to my race trans. No reverse. All forward gears are fine, plus P-N. But, not reverse. I loaned the car to my brother in law this weekend to race at Indy (I couldn't make it - family stuff). He called this morning to tell me there was no reverse, but the car still ET's and MPH's about the same as when I run it. Fluid levels are good, trans pressure is ~120psi (I checked 2 weeks ago). Trans was new, has 30 passes on it, no street time, basic rebuild, Turbo Action RMVB, Dynamic 3K stall converter.

Can anything fail that would affect reverse ONLY?

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, the servo piston for the front band. For some reason, I kept breaking them last year until I had a billet one made.

[Speedeuphoria]

rear band strut is known to fail

[ShelGame]

Simon - why does the front servo piston break? I mean, I rarely even use reverse.

The rear strut band is pretty simple to replace, right?

Either of those failures would have no other symptons?

[turbovanman²]

Simon - why does the front servo piston break? I mean, I rarely even use reverse.

The rear strut band is pretty simple to replace, right?

Either of those failures would have no other symptons?

It breaks due to high line pressure. It was weird, my first trans was fine, then the 2nd one I built kept breaking them???????????? I would put it into reverse and hear a POP, then no reverse. It drive fine in D but obviously no band engagement so first gear isn't as strong.
I had the billet one made and it was much better but then I blew the seal out a few times, I was going to have it resdesigned to use a scarf seal/square seal but I backed off the line pressure one turn and it hasn't done it since, KNOCK on wood.
Yeah, it could be the rear band strut but my money is on the servo. I had it down to 15 min change out due to a reusable pan gasket and I had a drain plug also, :nod:

[ShelGame]

It breaks due to high line pressure. It was weird, my first trans was fine, then the 2nd one I built kept breaking them???????????? I would put it into reverse and hear a POP, then no reverse. It drive fine in D but obviously no band engagement so first gear isn't as strong.
I had the billet one made and it was much better but then I blew the seal out a few times, I was going to have it resdesigned to use a scarf seal/square seal but I backed off the line pressure one turn and it hasn't done it since, KNOCK on wood.
Yeah, it could be the rear band strut but my money is on the servo. I had it down to 15 min change out due to a reusable pan gasket and I had a drain plug also, :nod:

Well, I won't know until he brings it back. But, 1st still seems strong. The car has always pulled 1.90 60' times - still does. He didn't mention a POP.

[ShelGame]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180063057693) the part I need? I hope so, I just bought 2 of them...

[turbovanman²]

Thats the band strut so yeah, thats for the rear but you still need the servo piston if its broken.

[Speedeuphoria]

Is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180063057693) the part I need? I hope so, I just bought 2 of them...


yeah thats the upgraded one(sonnax), glad you didnt get another stocker or I've seen that same $7 sonnax one for $32 on some trans builder's site.

[Aries_Turbo]

isnt the line pressure ridiculous in reverse when you crank it up to have decent in forward gears... something like 400psi at times. Torqueflite (i think thats his username.. or torqueflight or something like that) posted a fix to get high line pressure in the forwards gears that leaves the reverse pressure lower so this doesnt happen.

Brian

[Speedeuphoria]

yeah but the cheetah and stock vb only go to 120psi or so and although its high in reverse doesnt cause many probs(unless you ask simon). Normally its only when you go past that w/ a different spring that it becomes a prob.

I have a rmvb from Chad, it has a bleed in it. When I 1st installed it the line pressure was @150 psi and when reved up to 2000rpms it jumped to 170psi, I did drive it like that for a quick spell when I was making sure the trans worked(1st time building), checked it and turned it down to 150psi when reved.

OH and his VB is top notch along w/ the trans brake(dont have but heard about it). Has no flare what so ever 2-3 and soft downshift to engine braking in 1st(can disable also). As high of line pressure as the trans could ever take. Also he can do lock up manual vb's but not w/ trans brake

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^^Thanks, :o

[ShelGame]

Is there any chance that this is strictly in the TA valve body? Sticky valve or something?

[Speedeuphoria]

doubt it

[ShelGame]

Ok - update. I dropped the pan fianlly and the VB. It does have the stock flat band strut - still in place and not bent. Also, the front piston doesn't appear cracked - edit - I guess I have pull the little cover to really tell, huh? I'm going to adjust the bands later today (and put in the HD band strut). But, I thought I'd ask if there's anything else to look out for? Oh yeah, the pan magnet looks like a porcupine. It's all really fine meta - looks like moly lube on my finger - but the pile is ~3/8" think in the magnet. Everything else inside looks really clean. Pics later...

[87glhs232]

Did your magnet look like this? I call it a petropine!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/701/medium/DSCN95161.JPG

[ShelGame]

Pretty much!

[turbovanman²]

Well the front piston should be easy to see but I guess when one of mine broke, I had to remove it then you could see it. I also airchecked mine as another way of telling before i remove it. You could hear the air and of course, the band never moved.

[ShelGame]

OK, well, it looks like Simon may win the prize. The "gap" between the little rod on the front piston and the apply lever is ~ 5/8" - that seems VERY exessive to me. There's not even that much of the adjuster showing up on top.

The gap between the low piston and the apply lever is closer to 1/8" - which seems about right for 3-1/2 turns from torqued.

I'm going to assume that means the piston is broken. I can't see how to get the front apply lever out to get to the piston, though. Is it even possible to do with the trans in the car? Or is there some way to get the piston/cap out with the lever in place?

EDIT: Though, the piston moves just fine with air pressure. Takes up that gap and pulls the band tight. I'll check the band adjustments later. Maybe they're just out...

[turbovanman²]

OK, well, it looks like Simon may win the prize. The "gap" between the little rod on the front piston and the apply lever is ~ 5/8" - that seems VERY exessive to me. There's not even that much of the adjuster showing up on top.

The gap between the low piston and the apply lever is closer to 1/8" - which seems about right for 3-1/2 turns from torqued.

I'm going to assume that means the piston is broken. I can't see how to get the front apply lever out to get to the piston, though. Is it even possible to do with the trans in the car? Or is there some way to get the piston/cap out with the lever in place?

On the side of the case, under the transfer gear cover, is a plug that a 1/4 ratchet fits into, remove that, then you can slide out the shaft and out falls the actuating arm, then you can remove the piston. I got pretty fast at doing it. The hardest part is putting the 2 piece arm back in while holding the little square strut band actuator in place and sliding the pin thru, ack!

I don't remember which hole but looking at the case, you can see all the fluid holes, I just used an air gun with a rubber tip and tried them all until I found the right one, then you can check the operation of it now and when your done to make sure it works before putting it all back together.

Get one of those reusable pan gaskets, saved my asss numerous times, :thumb:

[ShelGame]

Get one of those reusable pan gaskets, saved my asss numerous times, :thumb:

Yeah, I'm gonna put a drain plug in the pan too. What a PITA. My garage floor looks like the trans exploded. I had a pan under it, too.

What's the application for the pan gasket? Neon?

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, I'm gonna put a drain plug in the pan too. What a PITA. My garage floor looks like the trans exploded. I had a pan under it, too.

What's the application for the pan gasket? Neon?

I have both and no mess for me, :thumb:

The part number is in my FAQ in the FAQ's, :eyebrows:

[ShelGame]

I have both and no mess for me, :thumb:

The part number is in my FAQ in the FAQ's, :eyebrows:

Oh sure, go and make it obvious :o

Who's gonna convert all the tranny info to the KC anyway?

[turbovanman²]

Oh sure, go and make it obvious :o

Who's gonna convert all the tranny info to the KC anyway?

Hehehehhe, :p

Probably me, guess I should get on it. :o

[Speedeuphoria]

yes you should;)

[ShelGame]

Simon - this look familiar? You don't happen to have one of those billet pistons laying around, do you?

[turbovanman²]

Simon - this look familiar? You don't happen to have one of those billet pistons laying around, do you?


Wow, deja vu, ;)

I can get one made if you want. I was going to get it redone with a scarf seal so it won't blow the seal out. Can you wait a couple weeks?

[ShelGame]

Wow, deja vu, ;)

I can get one made if you want. I was going to get it redone with a scarf seal so it won't blow the seal out. Can you wait a couple weeks?

I already put my spare stock piston in there for now. I was hoping to get a billet one for when this one breaks - actually, I think I want 2. I have a Neon trans for my next engine project that'll need one too. What do they cost?

[turbovanman²]

I already put my spare stock piston in there for now. I was hoping to get a billet one for when this one breaks - actually, I think I want 2. I have a Neon trans for my next engine project that'll need one too. What do they cost?

Not sure, I'll ask my machine shop want he wants for them. Neons also use them.

[Reeves]

Not sure, I'll ask my machine shop want he wants for them. Neons also use them.

Update?

[turbovanman²]

Update?

I have a billet cover using the stock seal and one that use's a scarf seal so it doesn't blow out. LMK which one you want and I"ll figure out a price.

[ShelGame]

Send me a price on the stock seal deal...

[Reeves]

Me too.

Discounts for multiple quantities?

[turbovanman²]

I only have one of each, he's not making anymore. :(

[Reeves]

Shelgame or me can draw them up. I can probably get a couple made at work.

[ShelGame]

I had them drawn up at one point. Was going to turn it myself on the lathe here at work. Like just about everything else - I never got around to doing it. The trans is still working fine with the cash part in it, though. It's race-only and rarely sees reverse except to get off the trailer. But still, I'd take 2 billet ones...

[turbovanman²]

Trying to see if he'll do them and how much, he got lazy and rich, lol. Right now, I'd take $50 each for the ones I have. LMK if your still interested.

[Reeves]

Shelgame has first dibs.

[TurboJerry]

Why not just delete reverse boost ? It might slip in reverse if you like to punch it(in reverse) but that's bad for it anyway. It easily gets 400 psi in reverse when the forward psi is 130. (It'll be 130 in reverse with boost deleted) I'm not a fan of drilling bleeds in the vb because of the very inconsistant line pressure. Mine stays at 130 to 140 all the time the cars run with a heavy main line spring.

[Reeves]

Why not just delete reverse boost ? It might slip in reverse if you like to punch it(in reverse) but that's bad for it anyway. It easily gets 400 psi in reverse when the forward psi is 130. (It'll be 130 in reverse with boost deleted) I'm not a fan of drilling bleeds in the vb because of the very inconsistant line pressure. Mine stays at 130 to 140 all the time the cars run with a heavy main line spring.

How do you delete reverse boost?

[ShelGame]

Ditto that...

[TurboJerry]

I'll have to edit some pics to show how it's done. It's just welding a small hole shut then using a 1/8" grinder to cut a 1/16" path in the valve casting...

[Reeves]

I'll have to edit some pics to show how it's done. It's just welding a small hole shut then using a 1/8" grinder to cut a 1/16" path in the valve casting...

Sweet!