Turbo'in a Neon 2nd gen

[Shadow]

We're going to be doing an Srt turbofold swap onto a 2003 neon 2.0l 5-spd. I thought it would be good to air some things out so that others can get a real good idea of what to do and what not to. There's a lot of info out there, but it's very dissconected and you seem to have to do WAY more searching than you should for something so simple. There are also some very simple Q's that don't seem to be addressed, and I'd like them to be addressed here. The build itself is pretty simple, SRT turbofold, Srt fuel system (inj's pump and lines), FMIC with custom hardpipes, CAI, and the Neon already has a stock SRT exhaust. Goals are only for stock SRT #'s which is why we're using modest parts. Things that are up in the air are Engine management, intake, decompression and maybe a couple more things that are sure to come up. First item on the agenda, intake manifold. How much boost will the stock plastic mani handle (if any) and what other options are there. Next would be engine management. I know that the "thing to do" now is Megasquirt. I also know that a couple ppl had really good success with stock electronics and RRFPR, SAFC ect. Because it's an 03 and I have several SRT harnesses around I'll throw that into the mix as well. Now something that I really haven't come across, lowering the compression with an extra thick H/G and or some chamber work that should also improve flow a little. Any and all comments welcome including any other idea/topics I might have missed.

[Shadow]

I cap'd a plastic manifold and filled it with 20 psi for starters....going to leave it for a couple days, see what happens. I'm also going to break this down to 2 or 3 builds. I'm thinking up to 225 WHP, 225-275WHP and 275+ which I would think everyone knows by now, built bottom end, megasquirt ect (I know 300 is quite doable on the stock internals, but because of the lack of good tuning abilities of most I think 275 is prob more realistic). The real Q is what is REALLY needed for someone who is ONLY interested in 225WHP and nothing else.

[turbovanman²]

Use turbo pistons to lower the compression or run lower boost if you don't want to tear into it. I started a thread on 1st Gen Neon's, :nod:

[contraption22]

My biggest question so far is how you plan to use the SRT turbofold on a SOHC cylinder head? Or are you planning to swap on a DOHC head?

I am also a little weary of using the stock internals even up to 225-250hp.

[Shadow]

Use turbo pistons to lower the compression or run lower boost if you don't want to tear into it. I started a thread on 1st Gen Neon's, :nod:

Aren't there several different cometic gaskets avail in different thinknesses? (3 layer, 5 layer ect)

[Shadow]

My biggest question so far is how you plan to use the SRT turbofold on a SOHC cylinder head? Or are you planning to swap on a DOHC head?

Several have done it with an adapter plate, going to take a good look and see what is the most feesable. What I was really thinking of was just dropping a complete SRT head, mani's with turbo and wiring in the SRT stock electronics and done. Although that would be overkill for a stock 2.0l BE and I'd really have to consider a complete 2.4 swap and that's completely beyond what the owner of the Neon wants. The only reason I'm doing this is because someone asked me if I could, it's not what I would choose to do otherwise. Having said that, if we're going to do it, we're going to do it well and I thought it would be a good topic for this forum.

[inmyshadow]

You better get on the mattdog order list. He doesn't have them stock anymore. Nor does he plan to make them again unless he gets a certain amount of people.

I've seen plenty of sohc turbos with srt4 turbofold and such make around 210whp at 8lbs of boost.

later



Several have done it with an adapter plate, going to take a good look and see what is the most feesable.

[Shadow]

I am also a little weary of using the stock internals even up to 225-250hp.

I'm pretty sure (after all the stuff I've read anyways) that most if not all of the problems related to engine failure as well as oil pump failures are due to detonation from bad tunes. Not unlike the 2.2 8v world. I don't see any other reason why some have gone 300+whp on the stock 2.0l internals for several years and others crap out at 200whp.

[Shadow]

You better get on the mattdog order list. He doesn't have them stock anymore. Nor does he plan to make them again unless he gets a certain amount of people.

I've seen plenty of sohc turbos with srt4 turbofold and such make around 210whp at 8lbs of boost.

later

I'm not to worried about the adaptor as we're fully capable of making one ourselves. That our I would just cut off the flange and weld on the other one.
Do most of the 8lb applications you see use the stock ecu and rising rate regulator or are they megasquirt?

[Ondonti]

stack headgaskets.
Official ghetto style.

for 8psi...RRR would be great. But I would upgrade the stock pump. I dont like the idea of using a pump that has a low pressure relief valve on a RRR setup.

[turbovanman²]

Aren't there several different cometic gaskets avail in different thinknesses? (3 layer, 5 layer ect)

Probably is, but I wonder if its enough to lower the compression around 1.5 points?

[Shadow]

stack headgaskets.
Official ghetto style.

for 8psi...RRR would be great. But I would upgrade the stock pump. I dont like the idea of using a pump that has a low pressure relief valve on a RRR setup.

Prob going to run a return of sorts, plug the relief valve on the SRT pump right of. Just want to know that the stock ecu TT is going to be livable on pump. If this were 250+WHP I'd go Megasquirt for the benefit of controlling timing alone.

[Shadow]

Probably is, but I wonder if its enough to lower the compression around 1.5 points?

Even if it only drops it .75 I'll take whatever I can get!:D

[inmyshadow]

If you are going this route, then whynot check out the sohc turbo manifolds all over ebay then.

Here is a link from neons.org on running a return line.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=188969


I'm not to worried about the adaptor as we're fully capable of making one ourselves. That our I would just cut off the flange and weld on the other one.
Do most of the 8lb applications you see use the stock ecu and rising rate regulator or are they megasquirt?

[Shadow]

I think we're going to go the simplest route for fueling. I'd like to be able to control spark, but at this low HP level there is enough evidence of success that I think we should be good with the stock 03 ecu + RRFPR + map clamp. Add to this the stock SRT-4 inj's and SRT-4 fuel pump with maybe a return line for better fuel control and we should be good. Anyone aware of how high ppl have gone on the plastic intake mani? Was going to swap it, but it seems rock solid holding 20 psi so far. Going to let it hold till the end of the week and maybe give it 10 more and see how see goes. Worse case I'll crank it (in a controlled surrounding) till she blows and see what the failure preasure is! lol

[turbovanman²]

I think we're going to go the simplest route for fueling. I'd like to be able to control spark, but at this low HP level there is enough evidence of success that I think we should be good with the stock 03 ecu + RRFPR + map clamp. Add to this the stock SRT-4 inj's and SRT-4 fuel pump with maybe a return line for better fuel control and we should be good. Anyone aware of how high ppl have gone on the plastic intake mani? Was going to swap it, but it seems rock solid holding 20 psi so far. Going to let it hold till the end of the week and maybe give it 10 more and see how see goes. Worse case I'll crank it (in a controlled surrounding) till she blows and see what the failure preasure is! lol

Some of the boosted GM V8's have plastic intakes, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[Shadow]

I cranked it to 30psi (took cover for the first few seconds) and still holding and I don't see any distortion. Thought I noticed the runners straighten slightly when I added the extra 10psi, but maybe just anticipation of the end! I'm going to leave it overnight and then I'll see if I crank it till she blows, or just leave it at that. I don't think anyones going to try running over 20psi with a mani like this, so mission accomplished. I'm totally at ease using it for the 8-10psi we'll be running. :amen:

[Shadow]

Got some stock compression specs and things are looking Very interesting. :eyebrows: Figured I'd post everything i've got so anyone can see what they're starting with.

These are all 2.0l

95-99 SOHC 9.8:1
95-99 DOHC 9.6:1
00-02 SOHC 9.8:1
03-06 SOHC 9.3:1
Magnum SOHC 9.8:1

Ask me if I'm glad we're starting with an 03 SOHC! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I'm totally at ease using it for the 8-10psi we'll be running. :amen:


Exactly, :nod:

[t3rse]

stumbled on this if you care: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f299/msns-dyno-382537/

[turbovanman²]

stumbled on this if you care: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f299/msns-dyno-382537/

Nice basic setup and good numbers, :clap:

[Shadow]

stumbled on this if you care: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f299/msns-dyno-382537/

Nice! I think I've pretty well figured out how we're going to go with this one. Stock ecu, missing link, RRFPR. Prob stock 03 SRT-4 inj's. Anyone know if these Neon's come with knock sensors?

[t3rse]

pretty sure the neon knock sensor my buddy gave me is from a 2g...should be right under the intake manifold on the front of the block

[Shadow]

Finally got going on this one, parts are all here, made up the adapter plate over the wknd, I'll post some pics soooonnnn.:nod:

[The Pope]

Finally got going on this one, parts are all here, made up the adapter plate over the wknd, I'll post some pics soooonnnn.:nod:

With a big FMIC the plastic intakes live a lot longer and at higher pressure. Running the tiny stock SRT turbo with no IC on a plastic intake with a ton of compressor heat makes a bang.

[Shadow]

With a big FMIC the plastic intakes live a lot longer and at higher pressure. Running the tiny stock SRT turbo with no IC on a plastic intake with a ton of compressor heat makes a bang.

Going with stock SRT I/C (ie big enough for little Neon)

[Shadow]

Couple things right off the bat. First off, it's an 02 Neon...not an 03, damn, just gain .5 more compression! So here's what we did. I deshrouded the valves which took a decent amount of material out of the combust chamber. I'm pretty sure with the drop in compression we will get when coupled with the 5 layer MLS gasket we're using (.87 thick) we should be good. I also took the oportunity of opening up the exhaust port so they flow a little better into the massive turbofold ports! Here's a shot of the exhaust ports before and after. prob hard to see in the pics, but I actually ovaled the ports. Made them 1/8th " wider on either side to better match them to the turbofold.

[Shadow]

Couple pics of the adapter plate and turbofold bolted up.

[turbovanman²]

Very nice, :nod:

[Sgt Craig]

The Stock rods will let go first.They do not like high cylinder pressures.10 PSi Max would be safe with the right fuel system. Try the Portfueler.There will be no need to run a return line with it.It works very well. www.hahnracecraft.com

[Sgt Craig]

Nice! I think I've pretty well figured out how we're going to go with this one. Stock ecu, missing link, RRFPR. Prob stock 03 SRT-4 inj's. Anyone know if these Neon's come with knock sensors?

Rising rates do not work very well with the ECU in the 03 up neons.Ran into alot of issues with it quite a few years ago.

[Sgt Craig]

Nice basic setup and good numbers, :clap:

Eric's car is nice.Hes still in the process of tuning the DOHC head he put on.

[Shadow]

Rising rates do not work very well with the ECU in the 03 up neons.Ran into alot of issues with it quite a few years ago.

car is working well so far at low boost 4-5psi. We'll see how she goes when we crank it up to 8-10psi in a week or two.

[Sgt Craig]

car is working well so far at low boost 4-5psi. We'll see how she goes when we crank it up to 8-10psi in a week or two.
Ah! I just saw your post saying it was a 02 instead of a 03.Works fine on a 02 down.

[turbo84voyager]

The Stock rods will let go first.They do not like high cylinder pressures.10 PSi Max would be safe with the right fuel system. Try the Portfueler.There will be no need to run a return line with it.It works very well. www.hahnracecraft.com

I am not a neon guy but I have pulled several neon motors apart and I would agree with the stock rods being the weak link. I am looking the one I have in my office as a "display" and they are pretty dingy at least compared to T2 2.2 / 2.5 rods.

[Sgt Craig]

I am not a neon guy but I have pulled several neon motors apart and I would agree with the stock rods being the weak link. I am looking the one I have in my office as a "display" and they are pretty dingy at least compared to T2 2.2 / 2.5 rods.


Yeah I found out the hard way.Windowed the block front and rear.Let go about 8000.Wasnt pretty.

[Shadow]

Took the Neon up to 8-10 psi today, zero knock, 10.8-11.2 A/F....feels pretty good. :)