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ngant17
12-30-2008, 08:22 PM
Can anyone offer some tips on the best way to bolt on the Dodge 2.2l motor to a engine stand? Photos of a set-up would be preferred. I just bought a stand and I pulled out the motor recently, but I want to work on the motor before it goes back into the '84 Caravan. I can remove my 5-speed tranny separately, no problem, it's not too heavy and I roll it out from the bottom.

I am thinking of bolting up the engine to the stand from the flywheel side, but if there is some other preferred way, I would appreciate the info.

Turbo3Iroc
12-30-2008, 08:38 PM
You want to bolt it from the flywheel side so you can access all of the accessories.

The top 2 bolts to the trans I thread right in with a couple washers to space it out. On the bottom the 2 wider trans holes I used long 3/8" bolts with a washer under the nut. There are some guides that look like spacers on the trans side of them so I used the washers mentioned above. I don't remember the pitch/thread of the metric bolts you'll need. You'll also have to measure how thick your stand brackets are to get the proper length bolt.

Personally, I find it easier to take the drivetrain out as an assembly and split it on the floor.

BadAssPerformance
12-30-2008, 08:53 PM
First off, welcome to thw best forum on thw net! :thumb:

and secondly... see the pic below :thumb:

ngant17
12-31-2008, 10:26 AM
I work on setting up the motor per your recommendations. When I get the 2.2 bolted up to the stand, I'll post a jpeg for future reference. Thanks for the quick replies!

BadAssPerformance
12-31-2008, 10:28 AM
Cool deal! :thumb:

mboyek
12-31-2008, 11:42 AM
If you get a cheap made in chicom stand from harbor freight or the likes, you most likely will need 6" long bolts. I got a set of bolts that were a little thinner than the tranny bolts and a bunch of washers to keep them from sliding out.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2499.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2500.jpg

And whats the story on the caravan?

R/Tony
12-31-2008, 02:56 PM
Just beware of the chinese one's ... they are crap, or maybe they are built for tiny 1L engines :mad:

look at this:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/RTTONY/PA100264.jpg

I had to put a table below:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/RTTONY/PA100268.jpg

ngant17
12-31-2008, 08:26 PM
Awesome looking motors! Thanks for the picts. I don't have any turbo machines, at least not yet.
But these photos are making me drool enough to start looking for one.

Yeah, I picked up a stand the other day, yur typical Harbor Freight special, on sale for $35. I'm planning on welding in some additional support for safety insurance, I don't wanna drop a cast-iron block if one of these el cheapo engine stands comes loose. Especially when foot or hand is in danger zone.

The '84 Caravan I picked up, it has a 5-speed manual trans, love it to death, I had to fix the clutch after I towed it in. I keep a spare clutch assembly in the shed to stay one step ahead of the game. I just yank tranny out to do clutch jobs. Trannys are easy to pull out from the bottom with a tranny jack.

BTW I'm the guy who posted the VW/Bosch distro conversion to the 2.2 motor. Best idea I've came across in a long time, if I do say so myself. Just fried your electronics? Don't sweat it. Drop in a 009 distro and carb w/manifold until you order the new FI wiring harness. It'll get ya going when you're in a fix.

I've had the '84 Caravan for over 4 years now, it's a beater but I keep it as a daily driver. I just got a '86 Charger and pulled the motor, I'm gonna use it as a spare so I can pull out the Caravan motor and repair as it is getting old and needs some TLC.

OK here's what I got so far:

First photo, EngineStand22a.JPG, shows the end of the harbor freight stand, with the stock motor mount used for support on one side (this is a 2.2l engine from a '86 Charger).
http://tinyurl.com/8o6t8l
It is attached to a fabricated 'ladder' for support (basically, two 3ft. pieces of 7/16in. all-thread, with a couple of short pieces of rebar tack-welded to the all-thread for more strength). I chose not to weld the end of the all-threads to the engine stand, but secured them with a U-clamp. The 'ladder' makes it easy to grab onto the engine and move the motor around from this side.

Second photo, EngineStand22b.JPG, shows the flywheel side of motor.
http://tinyurl.com/7dax8q
I cut out a section of a junk tranny so I can keep the starter bolted to the motor. Note that I'm only using 2 metric bolts on this side, screwed into the engine block here. Obviously I don't have to ability to rotate motor yet, but I'm only setting this up as a way to fire up and run the complete motor. I have just enough space at bottom to pull out oil pan, as you can see.

Unfortunately, although I believe the motor is securely supported with the stand, it currently restricts my ability to rotate bottom end for disassembly/assembly, but it's possible I could at least remove the cylinder head and related components with the support as it is right now on the engine stand. Later when I ready to do bottom-end rebuilds, I'll need to come up with another way to support the engine so that it can be rotated for convenience. When I get to that, I'll post an update.

BadAssPerformance
12-31-2008, 08:32 PM
Neat idea with the starter... is only using the two bolts to mount it enough tho?

ngant17
12-31-2008, 08:45 PM
The starter is bolted with the standard 3 bolts, but yes, I have the cut-up tranny bolted to engine block using only 2 of the big bolts (one on each side of top). If I would have spent a little more time to cut out tranny, I could have done a better, but this was yur usual quickie hack job, I saw my short cut and sliced away. Don't like automatic trannies myself. Bummer that the speedo cable got in the way. May it RIP.

ngant17
12-31-2008, 08:55 PM
Actually, I can't officially vouch for 2-bolt setup for cut-up tranny/starter jig, but when I hook up battery and cables and I'm ready to crank over the flywheel, I'll post again here and let you know of my success (or lack of it). I'm reasonably confident that it'll engage the teeth and fire up motor on a continual basis. Gonna yank out that auto flywheel and replace with manual. Anyone want this one cheap?

BadAssPerformance
12-31-2008, 08:59 PM
I guess the question is are you supporting the weight of the engine against the vertical post of the stand? or is all the weight of the enginge being held solely by the two bolts in bending? if so, watch your toes! :eek:

mboyek
01-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Actually, I can't officially vouch for 2-bolt setup for cut-up tranny/starter jig, but when I hook up battery and cables and I'm ready to crank over the flywheel, I'll post again here and let you know of my success (or lack of it). I'm reasonably confident that it'll engage the teeth and fire up motor on a continual basis. Gonna yank out that auto flywheel and replace with manual. Anyone want this one cheap?

Save the flex plate. You can put them under jack stands when your working on dirt so the jack stands don't sink in. Way better than plywood squares.

If you use 4 mounting points on the transmission side the HF stand should work fine w/out your fancy ladder. They are seriously over-rated, as in I know my 2000lb engine stand will not hold 2000lbs, but it should hold 500 no problem. I noticed after HF went from "made in tiwan" to "made in china" the steel has gotten significantly thinner. I have a 2 ton engine hoist I got about 15 years ago, made in tiwan. The new ones at harbor freight weigh about half as much! But they offered free shipping back then.

And keep that caravan on the road! DD manual tranny minivans are awesome. :thumb:

ngant17
01-01-2009, 10:31 PM
I guess the question is are you supporting the weight of the engine against the vertical post of the stand? or is all the weight of the enginge being held solely by the two bolts in bending? if so, watch your toes! :eek:

The weight of the engine is distributed on both sides, the 2 bolts on the flywheel/tranny side, and my fabricated "ladder" on the opposite side, which is attached to motor mount (I think that is the passenger-side motor mount).

My guess is that a complete 2.2 motor (minus tranny) weighs in around 350 lbs. Does that seem about right?

My 2 photos from previous post are not high resolution, so some of the details might not be so apparent.

I plan to have motor running in on the stand in a few weeks, I will be bolting on manifold, carb, ect. I will post here on stability of engine stand once it is set up and running.

MNmopar
01-02-2009, 02:20 PM
"My guess is that a complete 2.2 motor (minus tranny) weighs in around 350 lbs. Does that seem about right?"

I don't think that they're that heavy. I'm guessing in the 200lb range.

I pulled a 2.5l out of the back of a suburban by myself this spring, and I doubt that I could have if it weighed 3+ bills. Now mind you, I didn't carry it around like hercules, but I did pull it out and dragged it into the corner of my garage.

Just a guess, but I'd say closer to 200-250lbs.

BadAssPerformance
01-02-2009, 02:39 PM
The weight of the engine is distributed on both sides, the 2 bolts on the flywheel/tranny side, and my fabricated "ladder" on the opposite side, which is attached to motor mount (I think that is the passenger-side motor mount).

My guess is that a complete 2.2 motor (minus tranny) weighs in around 350 lbs. Does that seem about right?

My 2 photos from previous post are not high resolution, so some of the details might not be so apparent.

I plan to have motor running in on the stand in a few weeks, I will be bolting on manifold, carb, ect. I will post here on stability of engine stand once it is set up and running.

Sounds like it'll work :thumb:

I've always wanted to run an engine on a stand, you'll have to get some video of it running! :)

200lbs or less for a long block, we had a thread on 'shipping weight' on here somewhere

ngant17
01-04-2009, 06:49 PM
OK, here's where I'm at so far:

Fabricated an aluminum block-off plate, after removing 2.2 mechanical fuel pump. I always go for electric (not electronic!) fuel pumps, saves some fractional hp for the good ole 2.2 engine.

Pulled out the stock distro, and bolted on modified 009 distro. The bad news: I already yanked out the torque converter from auto flywheel, it was tossed in the old Charger and dispatched to junk yard, so I lost my timing marks which are on the converter. Good news: My spare 009 Bosch distributor from my running 2.2 Caravan was installed with timing already preset for me. I found TDC as close as possible and put in a new set of VW Bosch plug wire set. Once plugs are changed out, the 2.2l ignition will be pure-blooded German.

Stock Holley carb was bolted up, fuel line attached from fuel pump/gas can, and accessory vaccuum lines were (temporarily) plugged.

Exhaust pipes/muffler was fabricated as short as possible, don't want to wake the neighbors like those guys down the road, with their bad---- air boats all the time.

Hot-wired the beast and after playing with the distributor timing a little, it roared to life almost immediately. Some minor oil leaks were attended to, mainly from oil pan needing tightening.

The HF engine stand stood its ground with the motor roaring like a lion.

I'll send in a wmv if I can upload it here. Right now, it's dark and I want be taking a photo till later in the week.

R/Tony
01-05-2009, 03:21 PM
Neat idea with the starter... is only using the two bolts to mount it enough tho?
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/RTTONY/P9110010.jpg
I had to do that because the turbo was hiting the starter
;)

ngant17
01-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I shot a short AVI of the 2.2 motor running on the HF engine stand. I used my old digital camera as I don't have a USB for my Samsung cell phone at the moment, so there is no sound. . I'll upload it ASAP. It's about a 2 meg file. You will be able to see the vibration of the running motor, at one moment my shop rag which is plugging the breather hole on the valve cover, it gets shaken loose. The HF engine stand appears to be solid with this motor.

BTW, where can I upload the video on this forum?

In the meantime, here's a photo of what happens to Harbor Freight engine lifts, when then are pushed to capacity.

http://tinyurl.com/7d8fp4
I was trying to yank up a tree stump with it, and almost got there when the weld joint busted loose. No problem, I'll reweld and stick in some more metal inside the pipe for reinforcement. Should work a little better next time.

ngant17
01-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I shot a short AVI of the 2.2 motor running on the HF engine stand. I used my old digital camera as I don't have a USB for my Samsung cell phone at the moment, so there is no sound. . I'll upload it ASAP. It's about a 2 meg file. You will be able to see the vibration of the running motor, at one moment my shop rag which is plugging the breather hole on the valve cover, it gets shaken loose. The HF engine stand appears to be solid with this motor.

BTW, where can I upload the video on this forum?

In the meantime, here's a photo of what happens to Harbor Freight engine lifts, when then are pushed to capacity.

http://tinyurl.com/7d8fp4
I was trying to yank up a tree stump with it, and almost got there when the weld joint busted loose. No problem, I'll reweld and stick in some more metal inside the pipe for reinforcement. Should work a little better next time.

ngant17
01-12-2009, 06:46 AM
http://tinyurl.com/7na6dd

AVI of the 2.2 motor running on the HF engine stand, no sound - about 2 meg file. Vibration of running motor can be observed, note shop rag. The HF engine stand is stable with the complete motor running. The other side of motor hides the Bosch 009 distributor, I yanked out stock distro but 009 works fine.

I'm not uploading files directly to the threads on this forum, so as not to slow down connection speeds of viewers on dial-up. However, I can upload avi clip directly to forum when I get permission here, if there is room to spare.

If you want to run a 2.2 engine on a cheap HF stand, it can be done, and you can do it without fuel injection and electronics setup, just bolt on carb, intake manifold, electric fuel pump, and modify distributor accordingly. Then you know you'll be ready to run motor in car right away.

Nemesismachine
01-12-2009, 12:47 PM
Wait, are you trying to START the engine on the stand? Why else would you need the brace with the motor mount? I have the same stand, it holds my engine no problem.

ngant17
01-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Yes, I am now starting AND I running motor on HF stand. As you probably can verify from this AVI link. Sorry no audio. Gotta have that muffler on it, it's way too loud for the neighbors without it. Next step is to either hook up the radiator for cooling, or just add a large oil cooler with electric fan to keep it temporarily cool as it runs and heats up on the stand. And yes, with a decent-sized external oil cooler w/accessory fan, you will definitely make a difference in the oil temp and operating engine temp ( I became an oil cooler freak long ago, when I drove air-cooled vee-dubs). In fact, I was able to get home when my Caravan's alternator belt once broke on me (alternator belt also runs water pump, so you always want to keep a spare belt in your glove box), I didn't have a problem with overheating too much.

I like the idea of supporting motor from the front and back. It would seem to be a lot of weight on one end if you just bolt it up from the flywheel side, using the motor mount on the other side and supporting that end with some rods/allthread, that felt like an extra insurance policy.

When I'm read to do a bottom end rebuild, sure, I'll have to bolt it up from one side in order to rotate short block, but by then, I'll plan on having some excess weight removed and I won't need to run motor at that point anyway.

Nemesismachine
01-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Not bad. I guess if you're starting it, go for it. Or you could get a heavier duty stand and take the wheels off and bolt it to the floor, if you were so inclined...

ngant17
01-16-2009, 09:08 PM
After adding either radiator/oil cooler, next step will be to add manual flywheel/clutch, address any oil leak issues while motor is running, check all seals, and do some other basic maintenance on engine before my other 2.2. gets yanked out and replaced with this motor into the Caravan. And also to salvage stock distributor drive gear for use on a Bosch 009.

Maybe down the road I can consider some kind of fuel injection system and even a turbo kit. Money isn't there yet.