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turbo84voyager
12-28-2008, 04:41 PM
With all of this talk about rebuilding these transmissions here is a list of all of the bearings crossreferenced to Timken. Note: I did not use any of these yet, but the trans I am freshing up had timken bearings in it except the intermediate shaft case bearing which was original.

Input shaft SET4 and SET5

Intermediate shaft rear EDIT I was told the bearing was a timken 207, but it turns out this is not correct I apologise for the incorrect information.

Intermediate shaft case 5707

Differential bearings SET11

Input shaft seal 3732s

Axle seals 3459s

Please let me know if these are not correct, but hopefully I can save others the time looking them up.

Everhything except the input seal appears to be normal stock items in most auto part stores.


Justin

Tony Hanna
12-28-2008, 05:04 PM
That's cool about the #207. I thought I was going to have to go to the dealer for that one.

Tony Hanna
12-28-2008, 05:46 PM
So just for grins, I jumped on Parts America's website and totaled everything up. I ended up crossing to National for the input shaft and axle seals and the intermediate shaft bearings but stayed with Timken for everything else.
The total was $114.91 to completely rebearing and reseal a trans. They're shipping orders over $75 for free right now, so that's $114.91 shipped.

I wish I had a way to cross the rest from Timken to National as the cost would probably come down more. It seems like National runs a few dollars less per bearing.


EDIT: Rock Auto has the better deal even without free shipping. For all Timken parts, the total for everything is $59.81 ($87.36 shipped to my zip).

butchsuppe
12-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Thats some great info. there, are all those bearing availible ?

Tony Hanna
12-28-2008, 10:36 PM
Thats some great info. there, are all those bearing availible ?

I believe so.

turbo84voyager
12-28-2008, 11:10 PM
Yes all of the bearings are availiable. My dad works for a local auto parts store and I can access their inventory at home so I looked them up. They have everything except for the imput shaft seal in stock, even at their smallest store it is stocked. The input shaft bearings are very common, the sealed intermediate shaft bearing is a transmission and wheel bearing and the case bearing is a rear end bearing for a GM rear as well as other makes.

I wouldn't recommend using non brand name bearings. The timkens held up in the trans I pulled apart even after several years of drag racing.

turbo84voyager
12-28-2008, 11:16 PM
I forgot to add. I pulled an untouched 555 apart this evening and the KOYO sealed bearing looks exactily like the Timken 207 which was in the other trans.

Tony Hanna
12-28-2008, 11:20 PM
That's good to know. I'm going to be ordering all this crap within the next day or two and hopefully get the 555 back together soon. It's really nice to finally have a definite part# list for the bearings that can be purchased about anywhere. I hate worrying about stuff going NS1 at the dealer.

turbo84voyager
12-28-2008, 11:55 PM
The only bearing I am not 100% sure about is the 5707. I crossreferenced this number with a torrington bearing number I read was the "Mopar" replacement bearing. I checked the size of the shaft with my micrometer and it is about 1.4 which is what is listed for the bearing. I believe I read somewhere after I crossreferenced this bearing number that people have used this bearing in the trans. I am going to pick up the 5707 tomorrow.

Tony Hanna
12-29-2008, 01:08 AM
The only bearing I am not 100% sure about is the 5707. I crossreferenced this number with a torrington bearing number I read was the "Mopar" replacement bearing. I checked the size of the shaft with my micrometer and it is about 1.4 which is what is listed for the bearing. I believe I read somewhere after I crossreferenced this bearing number that people have used this bearing in the trans. I am going to pick up the 5707 tomorrow.

It should be fine. I did the same cross based on the Torrington p/n awhile back and came up with the same results. I ran the 5707 p/n by Cliff R. and he confirmed it.:thumb:

black86glhs
12-29-2008, 01:11 AM
It should be fine. I did the same cross based on the Torrington p/n awhile back and came up with the same results. I ran the 5707 p/n by Cliff R. and he confirmed it.:thumb:I'm the one who cross referenced a bunch of numbers and found the rear axle bearing thing....LOL!!!


J/K....others did it years before I did, darn good info to have!!!:thumb:

Tony Hanna
12-29-2008, 01:31 AM
I'm the one who cross referenced a bunch of numbers and found the rear axle bearing thing....LOL!!!


J/K....others did it years before I did, darn good info to have!!!:thumb:

Wait, what?:D I remember you came up with the Torrington p/n from the TD thread and then I googled and came up with the ebay auction for the Mustang rear axle bearings, looked up bearings for the same year Mustang on the Parts America site and came up with the cross to the BCA 5707. Or wait... you came up with the Timken 5707 cross first right?:lol:

Well, anyway you look at it, the cross to the 5707 p/n has been checked, double checked, and then confirmed by someone who has actually used one in a rebuild.:thumb:

turbo84voyager
12-29-2008, 09:18 PM
I picked up a Timken 5707 today. To my surprise when I opened the box was a Torrington DB-67309 which is the "Mopar" replacement bearing. Cost was under $14.

Tony Hanna
12-30-2008, 06:05 AM
Well that's neat. I didn't realize Timken outsourced their bearings. I wonder if the Mopar replacements have always been Torrington or if they switched because the Koyo bearings were no longer being produced?

Tony Hanna
01-08-2009, 09:33 PM
I ordered all the bearings from Rock Auto and they came in today. Everything looks to be in order except for the 207. The 207 I got is not a sealed bearing. Instead, it's just a regular open ball bearing.:(

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I went back to Rock Auto's catalog and put in 207s The specs listed are the exact same but the picture is showing a sealed bearing.

turbo84voyager
01-08-2009, 10:37 PM
What brand was the bearing? Timken? I am going to pick one up tomorrow and see what I get. The old bearing in my trans was a timken 207 and it was sealed. Thinking about it, I am almost positive that bearing on my 520 was not sealed when I installed the chromo plate.

Tony Hanna
01-08-2009, 10:44 PM
The box is Timken and the P/N on the box is 207. The bearing itself is marked FAFNIR 6207 C3 Z14 KOREA.

I'm pretty sure the one out of my 555 is sealed, but I don't have the trans here to double check. I'll be able to look at it this weekend though.

boost geek
01-08-2009, 10:51 PM
Both my 525 and 520 had a sealed bearing.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/2005_0208tranny0023.jpg

black86glhs
01-08-2009, 11:00 PM
They are sealed like in the picture. The 525, 555 and 520 use the same one. Tony, I'm wondering if it was packaged wrong or someone put that one in that package and returned it to Rockauto.

Tony Hanna
01-08-2009, 11:19 PM
They are sealed like in the picture. The 525, 555 and 520 use the same one. Tony, I'm wondering if it was packaged wrong or someone put that one in that package and returned it to Rockauto.

It's possible I guess but when I compared both the 207 and 207s, the specs are exactly the same. The only difference is that the picture for the "S" bearing shows a sealed bearing. I'm thinking it's more likely that the "S" after the p/n designates a sealed bearing.

The picture for the regular 207 shows an open bearing. I guess I just assumed it was a stock photo when I ordered and the actual 207 would be sealed.:o

There aren't any pictures for the Timken bearings, but here are the pictures of the 207 and 207s from BCA.

First the 207:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=218482&imageurl=http%3A//www.21cgt.com/FMWebCatalog/images/BCA_BBRGS.SE.001_ANG.JPG

And the 207s:
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=218487&imageurl=http%3A//www.21cgt.com/FMWebCatalog/images/BCA_BBRGS.SE.004_ANG.JPG

black86glhs
01-09-2009, 12:20 AM
It is the same bearing, just doesn't have the rubber side pieces. You can transfer those from the old bearing if they aren't beat up.

Tony Hanna
01-09-2009, 01:00 AM
It is the same bearing, just doesn't have the rubber side pieces. You can transfer those from the old bearing if they aren't beat up.

Well crap! I wish I'd known that before I spent the money on another bearing.:) Oh well, I guess I'll have a spare if I need it.:nod:

turbo84voyager
01-09-2009, 07:37 AM
Thats the problem with aftermarket parts. You never know what you are getting. The one in my trans had timken and 207 stamped right on it. Yet the last timken bearing I bought ( intermediate shaft case ) was a torrington.

Tony Hanna
01-09-2009, 08:04 AM
Thats the problem with aftermarket parts. You never know what you are getting. The one in my trans had timken and 207 stamped right on it. Yet the last timken bearing I bought ( intermediate shaft case ) was a torrington.

That's the 5707 right? The one I got was a Torrington as well. I always thought Timken manufactured their own bearings. I guess I was wrong. Or at least not all of them.

Tony Hanna
01-11-2009, 01:15 PM
Something else I'm kind of curious about. I had forgotten that the sealed bearing has a groove around the outer race for a snap ring. The 207 I got doesn't and according to the picture, neither does the 207s. I'll know for sure once the one I ordered gets here. I wonder how important that snap ring is? If I can do without it, then the 207s should be fine. If not, I may still end up having to order one from the dealer.

turbo84voyager
01-11-2009, 07:08 PM
I am not sure about the grove, from what I can remember, the bearings looked the same except for the "sealed cover" factory was black, timken was blue. When I get home later I will take a look. I have 2 555 gear sets in the garage. One with a stock bearing and one with a timken 207. I will let you know later. I know this timken was used in the trans I am rebuilding and the trans was in a 12 second charger and had a bunch of 1/4 runs on it with no failures even without a chromo bearing plate.

Justin

turbo84voyager
01-11-2009, 09:57 PM
I looked at both gear sets. Both bearings have the groove. The question now is did timken change their bearings? or does the S also have the groove??

fleckster
02-26-2009, 09:50 AM
I'm trying to summarize all of this info and to make it a sticky or add it to the Knowledge Center:

For the five speed manual transaxles:

Differential:
Bearings (2) - Timken Set #11
Seals (2) - Timken #3459S

Input Shaft:
Bearing (Front) - Timken Set #4
Bearing (Rear) - Timken Set #5
Seal - Timken #3732S

Intermediate Shaft:

A-525/A-520/A-555
Bearing (Front) - RNU070618-6 (Mopar Part #4377723) ; Timken #5707
Bearing (Rear) - Timken #207S

A-523/A-543/A-568
Bearing (Front) - 07NU0720/23B (Mopar Parts #4641225 (was #4531531) - Bearing; #4531529 - Inner Race; #4531528 - Oil Feeder)
Bearing (Rear) Timken #207S



Please check this over and let me know if this is correct or if there is anything that needs to be added. Once the info is judged to be accurate, I'll make it a sticky and/or have it added to the Knowledge Center.

Thanks for everyone's help!

turbo84voyager
02-26-2009, 10:47 AM
207S is not the correct intermediate bearing. It is very close but will not work. This still appears to be delear only. All of the other numbers look good.

fleckster
02-26-2009, 03:49 PM
I am working to get both the A-568 and A-555 Intermediate Shaft Bearings in my hands and see if I can use my Maintenance contacts at work to see if they can come up with an alternative bearing that might be available from other sources and hopefully cheaper. I'll keep everyone posted as to what, if anything, we can come up with. I figure if they can patch up our broken bearings in our Fuji Lathes and other major equipment with alternative and cross-reference bearings, they might be able to help us and the Maintenance Manager I work with is more than willing to assist me. What do we have to loose?

Thanks for the double check/confirmation, Justin!!! We need to have Barry check and see if he has the Mopar Part # for it so I can include it and even order one with my discount so we have a new one to get measurements from.

TopDollar69
02-26-2009, 06:55 PM
What's different about the current 207s?

Tony Hanna
02-28-2009, 11:57 PM
What's different about the current 207s?

It's missing the groove for the snap ring that the original bearing has.

black86glhs
03-01-2009, 12:30 AM
It's missing the groove for the snap ring that the original bearing has.You mean you can't just glue it in the side plate???? Damn.:(













Just kidding. I'll talk to this guy I met at school and see if he has any ideas for what to do. He runs mills and cnc machines.:thumb: He might have an easy way to cut the grooves in them and I have a spare snap ring he can measure with. Just in case John can't get anything going with his maintenance guys.:)

Tony Hanna
03-02-2009, 03:42 AM
You mean you can't just glue it in the side plate???? Damn.:(


I (very) briefly entertained the idea of 3 or 4 small tack welds around the outer race.:D:eek: No need for drastic measures like that as long as the correct bearing remains available from the dealer though.:)

fleckster
03-02-2009, 08:19 AM
Okay, so does anyone have the part number for this Intermediate Shaft rear bearing? I'll pick on up and see if anything can be matched to it.

Then I'll just have to figure out what to do with my damaged Turbo III A-568 case...

Tony Hanna
03-02-2009, 07:15 PM
Okay, so does anyone have the part number for this Intermediate Shaft rear bearing? I'll pick on up and see if anything can be matched to it.

Then I'll just have to figure out what to do with my damaged Turbo III A-568 case...

John,

You're talking about the sealed bearing right?
If so, I've got the one out of a 555 sitting right here. It's a Koyo bearing and has 83A5958 on the seal and 6207n on the outer race.

HTH,
Tony

EDIT: If somebody can try to get their hands on a Timken 207LO. This may be it. I don't have the extra money to order yet another bearing I might not be able to use or I'd order one to check it out. Unfortunately I can't find a picture of one anywhere but I did run across a thread on the other board that mentions the 207LO as a replacement for the Koyo 6207N.

Tony Hanna
03-02-2009, 08:19 PM
Well crap!
As far as I can tell, the only difference between the 207LO and the 207L is that the 207L includes a snap ring and the LO doesn't (but has the groove). Unfortunately, neither of the two are sealed.:mad:

Here's a pic of the 207L. I still can't find one of the LO.
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=218485&imageurl=http%3A//www.21cgt.com/FMWebCatalog/images/BCA_BBRGS.SE.003_ANG.JPG

I wonder how critical it is that a sealed bearing be used?

black86glhs
03-02-2009, 10:10 PM
I just did a cross reference. The 6207N crosses to a 207LO(obvious I know), which is also used in a few Ford 3 and 4 speed transmissions. I have yet to find a pic either. If I find one, I'll post it.

csxtra
03-02-2009, 10:19 PM
I wonder how critical it is that a sealed bearing be used?

I'm guessing that the seals are not crucial.

The 555 rebuild bearing kits I got from Transtar included outer mainshaft bearings that look very close to the 207L you just posted with no seals. The main difference is that they have 8 balls vs 7 in the pic you posted. They are marked "MRC 306SG5 USA" on the outer surface

I found a list of Timken bearing suffixes, and "L"="Snap ring grooved outer, snap ring supplied", and "LO"="Snap ring on standard side. Snap ring not supplied".

I'm guessing that the 207L is the one we want unless we can find a number for a sealed version with the snap ring.

The Timken suffix listing shows a "FFLB" suffix for "Special Bearing with two single lip snap-in seals and snap ring". When I searched for 207FFLB, I found nothing, but "207FFL" found a couple of obscure hits. I also searched for "207SL" and "207SSL" and got hits at Rockauto. But the pics for these all look the same as the one you posted above.

Sorry this is such a long post, but check what I found on Amazon.com:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Uy1gKc2QL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/SKF-2RSNRJEM-Single-Sealed-Bearing/dp/B000MNFCKS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1236048893&sr=1-11

Of course its currently unavailable, but at least we have a pic of what we're looking for.

I hope this helps the search.

csxtra
03-02-2009, 10:29 PM
Here I go again, I found the non-sealed version of the bearing at Advance Auto Parts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Bearing-National_3273172-P_1199_R%7CGRP60018____

When I put in my zip code, it shows low stock (call first) at all the stores listed, but I'm guessing they can get it quickly if needed.

Tony Hanna
03-02-2009, 10:59 PM
Nicely done Warren!
If I'm reading the BCA catalog right, the SL bearing should have a metal shield on the snap ring side right? I'll have to check and see if one of the local stores stock that bad boy. I can carry a stock bearing and my digital calipers in to compare. If it'll work, hopefully I can send the 207 and 207s I ordered from Rock Auto back and grab one. Then I'll have everything to put the 555 back together.:D

83rampage
03-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Guys, don't forget there are bearing supplier stores, and these guys are the experts at interpreting all the bearing numbers (your talking thier language). If you bring them in a sample, they can get you exactly what you want (rubber seals and all). They are usually cheaper than the dealer. Check your yellow pages.

As far as the rubber seals go, I was surprised to see them stilll on the bearing. The older 4 speeds I've rebuilt never had seals on the bearings.

fleckster
03-03-2009, 11:17 AM
True, and this is more or less where I'm going through our Maintenance guys here at mt Chrysler Plant but I don't have confirmed bearing numbers or sample to go off of. That part of the reason I'm buying new ones through a Dealership using my discount at Chrysler. Before they get used, I will have them checked out for an alternative cross-reference through a bearing maker to hopefully find a cheap and more guaranteed availability. You never know when Chrysler will just stop making or supplying the parts for our cars.

83rampage
03-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Yes how true. My visit to the parts department for most of what I wanted for my 555 came up up with a "no longer available" (snap rings, syncros etc). The stuff I really needed was still available....for now. Fortunately bearing use is mostly designed around off the shelf items.

I've rebuilt dirt bike engines, trannys etc. and rarely had to go to the dealer for bearings.

I think its great guys have taken the time to put together these bearing lists, takes away a ton of leg work.

fleckster
03-03-2009, 12:24 PM
Wait until you see the Knowledge Center article I'm going to write up after I get all this stuff figured out! Hopefully it will have all the "wearable" items listed with original (and current) part numbers and if any alternative makers part numbers for all the 5 speed manual transmissions. Hopefully the list will work out with just about everything being available at one or two local part store or bearing shops near you. (We may be SOL on shifter pads though. I'd guess only a Chrysler trans specific item there.)

135sohc
03-03-2009, 01:43 PM
Wait until you see the Knowledge Center article I'm going to write up after I get all this stuff figured out! Hopefully it will have all the "wearable" items listed with original (and current) part numbers and if any alternative makers part numbers for all the 5 speed manual transmissions. Hopefully the list will work out with just about everything being available at one or two local part store or bearing shops near you. (We may be SOL on shifter pads though. I'd guess only a Chrysler trans specific item there.)

I thought someone bought a rebuild kit and posted it included new fork pads ?

maybe that was just for the 520/555 though

Tony Hanna
03-03-2009, 07:30 PM
I thought I saw someone mention building the shift forks up in the pad area by brazing to them and then filing the brass to the right thickness? I would think the brass would wear good and eliminate the need for the pads and the problems with durability and availability.:thumb:

Ondonti
06-28-2013, 08:07 AM
Wait until you see the Knowledge Center article I'm going to write up after I get all this stuff figured out! Hopefully it will have all the "wearable" items listed with original (and current) part numbers and if any alternative makers part numbers for all the 5 speed manual transmissions. Hopefully the list will work out with just about everything being available at one or two local part store or bearing shops near you. (We may be SOL on shifter pads though. I'd guess only a Chrysler trans specific item there.) Did this happen?

135sohc
06-28-2013, 09:17 PM
Did this happen?


Yes. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Drivetrain:Chrysler-FWD-Manual-Transaxle-Rebuild-Parts-Guide