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View Full Version : TU Hybrid Header and 3" Swingvalve Design Questions Answered



Chris W
12-16-2008, 02:18 AM
Since this has been brought up in a few threads already I just wanted to clarify the reasoning behind why some port matching is required on our cast iron headers when using the Chrysler style turbine housings.

We have always maintained close contact with the decision makers over at Turbonetics about the future of all their Chrysler style products, especially the .63A/R housing. As many of you already know Turbonetics is the ONLY manufacturer of these turbine housings. With overall dwindling sales and due to the country's current economic situation the time has come that Turbonetics will not be manufacturing these for us anymore. The news was even more discouraging to TU since our 3" swingvalves were tied directly to these Chrysler housings. In the past we have always been able to delay their decision by just placing larger orders, but Turbonetics is not being very negotiable this time around. So, having seen the writing on the wall and knowing this day would eventually come, TU decided to design the cast iron Hybrid header mainly for the Ford style turbine housings in order to maintain the availability of performance turbine housings for these vehicles in the future. As a few of you already know we have also redesigned our 3" swingvalves so that they can be used on both the Ford and Chrysler style turbine housings. This took some doing but should hopefully increase sales volume enough so that we can keep this product around for a while longer.

We have seen some TU Header bashing on the lists due to the flange mismatch. From our perspective, had we cast the turbine port to match the Chrysler turbine housing then all future Ford turbine housing applications would have to hog out the header and then we would hear complaints from them. Since we hope this product will be around for a while and there will be more and more customers using the Ford style housings (as Chrysler style housings dry up) it made more sense this way. A few sharp customers picked up on the Ford gasket match right away but were sworn to secrecy until I was able to put together this announcement. THANKS GUYS!:thumb::thumb: You know who you are.... :clap::clap: FYI- The fine thread turbine flange bolts were limited to only the first 30 headers and balance of them had course SAE thread. No reason to increase the cost of the product by using costly metric studs/nuts.

In any case, we just wanted to inform every one of the changes and to let you know that TU is working hard at staying a couple of steps ahead of the industry. There is always a method to our maddness. :evil: By structuring the business and designing our products to compliment what is still available you can be confident that TU will be able to provide you with enhanced performance parts now and well into the future.

If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to contact us. While I won’t have phone access from Dec 16th through the 28th you can still reach me via PM or email during that time. chris@turbosunleashed.com

We wish you all the Happiest of Holidays and look forward to bringing a few new products on board the beginning of the New Year.

Chris Wright
www.TurbosUnleashed.com


PS- Attached below are a couple of pics showing the Ford style gasket on our header and on the Chrysler turbine flange.

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-16-2008, 10:56 AM
Placed my order on Sat.
can't wait to take full advatage of that header and keep the omni in the 10's without warping my header anymore
gotta love the external wastgate provision :thumb:

omni_840
12-16-2008, 11:03 AM
This may be a dumb question, but will the old "style" SV work with the ford housings?

cordes
12-16-2008, 12:05 PM
Thanks for the info Chris. Sadly, this is yet another part not available any longer. Glad you are trying to fill the void too.

tryingbe
12-16-2008, 12:54 PM
This may be a dumb question, but will the old "style" SV work with the ford housings?

No, the 5 bolt holes are place differently.

contraption22
12-16-2008, 01:31 PM
Hmm... so in theory, if I use a Mexican Stratus manifold on a DOHC head, your new 3" swingvalve will work with that setup.
Sweetness.

turbovanman²
12-16-2008, 01:54 PM
Another part for our cars taking a dump, :(

Maybe you can buy the molds from Turbonetics or they can give them to you? :eyebrows:

contraption22
12-16-2008, 02:06 PM
Another part for our cars taking a dump, :(

Maybe you can buy the molds from Turbonetics or they can give them to you? :eyebrows:

Yeah it does kinda suck that the Chrysler style housings will be going away, but at the same time, using a more universal flange design opens up many more turbo options for us.

omni_840
12-16-2008, 02:13 PM
Yeah it does kinda suck that the Chrysler style housings will be going away, but at the same time, using a more universal flange design opens up many more turbo options for us.

I agree with that but I'm a little discouraged b/c I bought a TU 3'' SV when Chris implied he wasn't going to make anymore. So I bought one and now the "new" design will work with the ford housing. I don't even have a turbo to mount to:(

butchsuppe
12-16-2008, 02:21 PM
So what Fords have the housing ? Just so I know what to look for at the yards. Speaking of yards what do ricers want, I'd love to rape their wallets.:lol:

Reaper1
12-16-2008, 02:46 PM
Ughhh...BIG sad face from me... :( I'm not going to be able to use my beautiful 3" SV until I get a turbo...and I won't be able to do that until I build a bottom end. With the way my finances are with school right now, that won't be happening when I wanted it to either!! :( :( I sure hope there's a Chrysler .63 housing left when I go to get my turbo, but I have NO clue when that's going to be...

Chris W
12-16-2008, 02:47 PM
I agree with that but I'm a little discouraged b/c I bought a TU 3'' SV when Chris implied he wasn't going to make anymore. So I bought one and now the "new" design will work with the ford housing. I don't even have a turbo to mount to:(

When you bought your swingvalve from us we were considering not making them anymore. But, after meeting with our pattern designer we determined that we could make a few changes and it will work for both applications. This opens up the doors to many other markets which should keep this part from being discontinued. You purchased it at the lower cost so you can sell it now and purchase the universal one later. I know a few people who are looking for one now and don't need the Ford option. PM me and I will forward you contact info.

Chris-TU

iTurbo
12-16-2008, 03:19 PM
OK, I'm confused.....I have two TU 3" swingvalves that I bought several years ago for my Omni and my Lancer. Now I'm converting BOTH cars to TIII and will be using standard T3 turbines with the Ford flange setup, so I figured I'd have to replace the TU swingvalve with the ATP Ultimate swingvalve. Will this new design TU swingvalve will work for me without having to fab a new downpipe like I would have to do if I used the ATP swingvalve?

Reaper1
12-16-2008, 05:29 PM
PM sent, Chris...

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-16-2008, 08:11 PM
Hmm... so in theory, if I use a Mexican Stratus manifold on a DOHC head, your new 3" swingvalve will work with that setup.
Sweetness.


srt is going hybrid :thumb:

contraption22
12-16-2008, 08:33 PM
srt is going hybrid :thumb:

Nope:)

rosie
12-16-2008, 10:44 PM
Another part for our cars taking a dump, :(

Maybe you can buy the molds from Turbonetics or they can give them to you? :eyebrows:

I may be wrong... again... but I think I was told or read that they were pulverized. Very specifically that word. Not destroyed or lost or not available which is why I think my memory is actually working at the moment. Chris? Oh yea, was I supposed to keep the ford thing a secret?
What about the flex capasitor your working on.... Oops

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-19-2008, 01:19 PM
just got the header
quick ship
looks great
can't wait to hang this thing on the motor
lower nuts look like fun
this header has gotta flow

moparzrule
12-19-2008, 02:24 PM
just got the header
quick ship
looks great
can't wait to hang this thing on the motor
lower nuts look like fun
this header has gotta flow

:needpics1:

Chris W
12-19-2008, 08:44 PM
Wow, you guys are mixing two of my favorite things: Back to the Future and Star Trek!! LOL Yes, I'm a nerd. No, I don't care..it's painfully obvious when you go to 'Riddle...EVERYBODY is a nerd!! LOL


HEY, I resemble that remark. :lol: Graduated Riddle in '90. Awesome teachers and school. Just a little bit pricey though.


Back on topic.....


just got the header
quick ship
looks great
can't wait to hang this thing on the motor
lower nuts look like fun
this header has gotta flow


Looking forward to seeing everything when it's finished.


Chris-TU

moparzrule
12-19-2008, 10:14 PM
I was gonna correct that too but wasn't going to waste bandwidth for it LOL. Oh look I wasted more now :p

rosie
12-20-2008, 12:51 AM
Just giving you guys something to do.... Good job! :thumb:

Aries_Turbo
12-21-2008, 12:09 AM
i moved the nerd posts to the nerd thread!

no one is in trouble. i was de-railing the thread as much as anyone. :)

Brian

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-21-2008, 12:03 PM
Basically replacing this setup

1 5/8" s/s header I fabbed up back 12 years ago
idiot that ordered up the metal got the wrong thickness for my flange then warped the heck out of it welding it up for me
took off so much material getting a flat surface I had to resurface it and brace it about everyother year, 4 or 5 years ago I welded another flange to it just to bring up the thickness again
this time using mild steel to hope it would move as much

I needed/wanted the external wastegate provisions
Figure the casting won't warp
Should help retain more heat to get the turbo to spool quicker
my previous attempt had 2 and 3 a straight shot at the turbo but 1 and 4 came to the turbo on with their own tubos but had nothing deflecting the air torwards the turbo , didn't really like that too much
1st header I saw that I felt could support the air flow for the turbo, head, cam combination
granted it is a log design but the tubes are progressivly bigger and directional, no weld t's here
The mexican dohc neon turbo manifolds are a lot worse off and Slowe's car didn't seem to fair too bad (btw did you see his new header :love:)
for the compact design the wastegate provision placement will do just fine
any wastgate setup is 100x better then a swingvalve imo

turbovanman²
12-22-2008, 03:43 AM
^^^^So are you just changing the header? If so, should be interesting to see the results. I bet the reversion on 1 and 4 is brutal with your header.

"Top Fuel" Bender
12-22-2008, 10:00 AM
^^^^So are you just changing the header? If so, should be interesting to see the results. I bet the reversion on 1 and 4 is brutal with your header.

pretty much so
I'll have to re-do the downpipe/intercooler pipe , since my turbo is flipped "backwards" (inlet on the passsids, exhaust driverside)
but with the turbo offset on the manifold I should be able to flip the downpipe and pretty much use the same bends and lengths
the I/C pipe may be about 3" shorter, so it should be a good comparison

I was about 17 y.o. when i made that header
It's did me pretty good for it's time

I cut 1.65 60' with that header on but I had to wait for the turbo to spool up
Hopefully we can cut down that 60' and increase spool time

contraption22
12-22-2008, 10:47 AM
I cut 1.65 60' with that header on but I had to wait for the turbo to spool up
Hopefully we can cut down that 60' and increase spool time

30-shot

moparzrule
12-22-2008, 10:52 AM
LOL, you are hooked on N20 now aren't you Mike?

briceturbosports
12-22-2008, 11:20 AM
30-shot

100 shot make it fun :nod::eyebrows:

iTurbo
01-04-2009, 07:16 PM
I wish I would have known about the change to the Ford (standard) flange setup because I would have been on the pre-order bandwagon long ago! A couple questions though, as I'm fairly certain I'll be buying two of these 'new' TU swingvalves.

1. Are they dual-pattern (Chrysler/Ford) or are the new ones Ford flange only?

2. Does the downpipe donut flange angle change with the newer TU swingvalve? For example, I have a Garrett turbo from a Ford Mustang SVO (60 trim T3 w/.63 A/R housing) that I want to put onto a Spirit R/T. Will the stock downpipe bolt right up or does it have to be cut and rewelded?

3. Pics and/or timeframe update on these?

GLHNSLHT2
01-04-2009, 08:46 PM
I wonder how the new 3" swingvalve would work on the 2.3 turbo fords. those poor guys are stuck with like a 2" swingvalve stock.

turbovanman²
01-04-2009, 09:03 PM
I wonder how the new 3" swingvalve would work on the 2.3 turbo fords. those poor guys are stuck with like a 2" swingvalve stock.

Probably very sweet but I wonder how they would like our ball and socket setup?

iTurbo
01-04-2009, 09:10 PM
Actually the TU s/v wouldn't work on a Ford 2.3L at all. If you did try to install it, the exhaust would be pointed straight up at the hood. Same thing if I tried to install the Ford OEM s/v on my Spirit R/T; the exhaust would be pointed straight up. Might be good for demo derby though! The Ford OEM s/v is horrid...I have one and it looks like 2.25", but far more restrictive than the 2.25" Chrysler piece. The wastegate path is especially bad as the exhaust gas has to make an immediate U-bend as it exits.

GLHNSLHT2
01-04-2009, 10:12 PM
oh that's right, it's been a long time since I've seen under the hood on a stock 2.3 ford.

1984rampage
01-04-2009, 11:12 PM
Simple Fix... Route the exhaust through the hood! Itll look badass as hell to!

briceturbosports
01-09-2009, 01:17 PM
top fuel showed me the header what a nice part ! chris nice job on the header

Chris W
01-09-2009, 01:25 PM
top fuel showed me the header what a nice part ! chris nice job on the header

Thanks! We look forward to seeing the results with his "Unique" set up :eyebrows:

Chris-TU

Chris W
01-09-2009, 01:46 PM
I wish I would have known about the change to the Ford (standard) flange setup because I would have been on the pre-order bandwagon long ago! A couple questions though, as I'm fairly certain I'll be buying two of these 'new' TU swingvalves.

1. Are they dual-pattern (Chrysler/Ford) or are the new ones Ford flange only?

The distance between the center of the turbine housing outlet and wastegate port are identical on Ford and Chrysler housings. We were able to modify our 3" SV pattern and core box to extend the mounting ears so that they could be drilled for both application.



2. Does the downpipe donut flange angle change with the newer TU swingvalve? For example, I have a Garrett turbo from a Ford Mustang SVO (60 trim T3 w/.63 A/R housing) that I want to put onto a Spirit R/T. Will the stock downpipe bolt right up or does it have to be cut and rewelded?

The outlet of our 3" SV will not change. Only the part where it bolts up to the turbine housing. Obviously, the angle will change slightly for Ford applications.


3. Pics and/or timeframe update on these?

We have gone through several changes on our 3" swingvalve pattern and core box to get this right. The first 4 castings of the new design were poured and delivered to our machine shop in early December. They were closed for the Holidays so we are not sure if they are all completed yet. The owner is supposed to give me a call with updates today.

Chris-TU

iTurbo
01-11-2009, 01:55 PM
Thanks for the info Chris. Sounds very promising for TIII use, maybe even the Ford 2.3L if the turbo was flipped 180'.

1984rampage
01-16-2009, 07:26 AM
Does this mean that if we wanna run a .63 housing then were gonna have to get one of your log headers? Or are you going to start drilling your ported exhaust manifold flange to run the new housings?

Chris W
01-18-2009, 02:32 PM
Does this mean that if we wanna run a .63 housing then were gonna have to get one of your log headers? Or are you going to start drilling your ported exhaust manifold flange to run the new housings?

We will be adding the 4 bolt Standard style option to our website soon.

Chris-TU

"Top Fuel" Bender
02-24-2009, 12:54 AM
We will be adding the 4 bolt Standard style option to our website soon.

Chris-TU

Some pics of my install started on another thread
TFB Omni build (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=449428#post449428)


install tips
install tips (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=450875&postcount=36)