Turbocharging a 95 Neon-Options please!

[turbovanman²]

Ok, I have another customer that wants me to turbocharge his 95 Neon. I did a 2.4 SRT swap into one before and never again sooooooooo what are my options?
I will be going forged pistons and retaining his stock 2.0L DOHC head, so is there a 2.4 block that will bolt right in? IE Stratus etc pre 99 or do I change out the rods and crank and put 2.4 stuff in?

There will be no porting so what turbo to run? Just a daily driver, no drag racing.

What are my options for engine management? I could have MicroTech installed but can I trick the stock stuff?

Thanks guys.

[TurboRon25]

I think Hahn just bolted a turbo to a stock motor with a RRR and it was good for like 6-8 psi.
Stg II was intercooled stage I and like 10-12 psi. Stg III was pistons and around 15 psi.

2.4s bolt in with a pass side adapter that you can get off the Neon boards. Wiring changes are a couple simple swaps. (cam sensor and injectors) You need to start with a DOHC harness.

SRT4 rods and pistons are the way to go if you are adding real boost to the 2.4, Super cheap and reliable.

DailyDriver: bolt on a stock SRT4 turbofold. Easy, reliable.

They do alright on stock 2.0 computers. Neon Performance computers are a no-no with boost.

..or he can just buy my rust free 98 2.4 turbo R/T

Ron

[spoolinhard]

www.neons.org try the neon guru's

[shadow88]

You know you'd ask this if anyone else were asking.;) Sooooo.... What's the power level and purpose of this build?

[turbovanman²]

You know you'd ask this if anyone else were asking.;) Sooooo.... What's the power level and purpose of this build?

Just a stock type build, no more than 10 psi, just for some more added boost, I sorta mentioned that in the first post, :D



I think Hahn just bolted a turbo to a stock motor with a RRR and it was good for like 6-8 psi.
Stg II was intercooled stage I and like 10-12 psi. Stg III was pistons and around 15 psi.



It will be getting rebuilt and an IC.




2.4s bolt in with a pass side adapter that you can get off the Neon boards. Wiring changes are a couple simple swaps. (cam sensor and injectors) You need to start with a DOHC harness.

Did that before, not a fan of it plus the added height. The car is already DOHC.



SRT4 rods and pistons are the way to go if you are adding real boost to the 2.4, Super cheap and reliable.

Will they go in a 2.0L with a crank swap?




DailyDriver: bolt on a stock SRT4 turbofold. Easy, reliable.

I know about that but don't like the port mismatch and the missing stud you grind off to make it fit a pre 2000 head.



They do alright on stock 2.0 computers. Neon Performance computers are a no-no with boost.

Good to know.



..or he can just buy my rust free 98 2.4 turbo R/T

Ron

Hahhaa, nice try.

I'll surf around Neons.org.

[BadAssPerformance]

I think Hahn just bolted a turbo to a stock motor with a RRR and it was good for like 6-8 psi.
Stg II was intercooled stage I and like 10-12 psi. Stg III was pistons and around 15 psi.

2.4s bolt in with a pass side adapter that you can get off the Neon boards. Wiring changes are a couple simple swaps. (cam sensor and injectors) You need to start with a DOHC harness.

SRT4 rods and pistons are the way to go if you are adding real boost to the 2.4, Super cheap and reliable.

DailyDriver: bolt on a stock SRT4 turbofold. Easy, reliable.

They do alright on stock 2.0 computers. Neon Performance computers are a no-no with boost.

..or he can just buy my rust free 98 2.4 turbo R/T

Ron

Also to add all of Hahns kits used Mitsu turbos for whatever reason.

+1 to the clean '98 Ron has for sale! pics of the '95?

[turbovanman²]

Also to add all of Hahns kits used Mitsu turbos for whatever reason.

+1 to the clean '98 Ron has for sale! pics of the '95?


He likes his car.

I don't have any pics, just a normal Neon, nothing special but its paid for, lol!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... I want Ron's '98 but a '95 would be easier cuz no e-check for pre OBD2 here :D

[Aries_Turbo]

you could run the 95 on a smec/sbec with a dist adapter to the cam and even utilize the factory neon knock sensor with some reprogramming to the threshold curve. Chem2 has scaling options for 2.0L. keep the stock ecu in there for the gauges and stuff. add the SMEC/SBEC like a standalone.

id do rods and pistons. no you cant use a 2.4L crank or the SRT stuff in the 2.0L motor. the 2.0L has a wider large end of the rod.

Brian

[inmyshadow]

If this is a daily driver, then a DOHC 2.0 with HRC turbo kit should be good. It will make around 210whp.

The 2.4 does swap in. All the SRT4 internals fit the 1st gen 2.4 block. You can use a SOHC 2.0 engine harness without much problems. I only had to change the cam position sensor's connector and lengthen CTS and Oil pressure when I did my swap.

For engine management on a 2.4 turbo setup. Alot of neon owners use megasquirt with AEM's F/IC gaining in popularity.

Since the PT crusier supercharger kit deal fell through on me. I'll probably turbocharge my 2.4 with a SRT4 turbofold and run AEM's F/IC.

later



I think Hahn just bolted a turbo to a stock motor with a RRR and it was good for like 6-8 psi.
Stg II was intercooled stage I and like 10-12 psi. Stg III was pistons and around 15 psi.

2.4s bolt in with a pass side adapter that you can get off the Neon boards. Wiring changes are a couple simple swaps. (cam sensor and injectors) You need to start with a DOHC harness.

SRT4 rods and pistons are the way to go if you are adding real boost to the 2.4, Super cheap and reliable.

DailyDriver: bolt on a stock SRT4 turbofold. Easy, reliable.

They do alright on stock 2.0 computers. Neon Performance computers are a no-no with boost.

..or he can just buy my rust free 98 2.4 turbo R/T

Ron

[Vigo]

darn, if only this were a SOHC thread, it'd be twice as useful to me!

210whp in a neon is pretty sweet considering the weight. Id be happy.

[turbovanman²]

If this is a daily driver, then a DOHC 2.0 with HRC turbo kit should be good. It will make around 210whp.

The 2.4 does swap in. All the SRT4 internals fit the 1st gen 2.4 block. You can use a SOHC 2.0 engine harness without much problems. I only had to change the cam position sensor's connector and lengthen CTS and Oil pressure when I did my swap.

For engine management on a 2.4 turbo setup. Alot of neon owners use megasquirt with AEM's F/IC gaining in popularity.

Since the PT crusier supercharger kit deal fell through on me. I'll probably turbocharge my 2.4 with a SRT4 turbofold and run AEM's F/IC.

later


Does the 2.4 sit higher, I know the SRT motor did?

I'll check into the HRC kit.

[contraption22]

Does the 2.4 sit higher, I know the SRT motor did?

I'll check into the HRC kit.


It has to, unless you want to lower the trans. 2.4 has a taller deck height.

[inmyshadow]

Yes, I had to remove the hood padding to clear the dohc 2.4 valve cover. But you need to use the bulge hood to clear either dohc motor.


Does the 2.4 sit higher, I know the SRT motor did?

I'll check into the HRC kit.

[mario03SRT]

Vanman,

I helped a local do his 2.0.

- 255 pump
- SRT-4 turbofold assy. WGA/BOV/Turbo
- map clamp on a stock Neon 2.0 ecu
- aeromotive adj fuel reg
- stock 2003 SRT injectors (early ones pre 2004 which were larger) or
maybe some accell 24 lb or ford racing 24 lbs.
- fmic
- mbc
- stock SRT-4 DP

9 psi max as the rods will start to fuss over this much power. Also the valves will give whine also. The car ran a 13 flat on slicks. Made around 190 hp at the wheels. With a SRT head with a mild PnP and 8.5 compression pistons, crower rods, SRT 4 Clutch (slightly turned), 3 in exhaust, STG 1 injectors AND megasquirt the car runs 11.70s and is putting down 330 hp at the wheels with 20 psi spike holding 17 to 7k.

FYI,
Marion

If I remember anything else I'll add it.

[turbovanman²]

Yes, I had to remove the hood padding to clear the dohc 2.4 valve cover. But you need to use the bulge hood to clear either dohc motor.

IT HAS THE DOHC MOTOR, :o


Vanman,

I helped a local do his 2.0.

- 255 pump
- SRT-4 turbofold assy. WGA/BOV/Turbo
- map clamp on a stock Neon 2.0 ecu
- aeromotive adj fuel reg
- stock 2003 SRT injectors (early ones pre 2004 which were larger) or
maybe some accell 24 lb or ford racing 24 lbs.
- fmic
- mbc
- stock SRT-4 DP

9 psi max as the rods will start to fuss over this much power. Also the valves will give whine also. The car ran a 13 flat on slicks. Made around 190 hp at the wheels. With a SRT head with a mild PnP and 8.5 compression pistons, crower rods, SRT 4 Clutch (slightly turned), 3 in exhaust, STG 1 injectors AND megasquirt the car runs 11.70s and is putting down 330 hp at the wheels with 20 psi spike holding 17 to 7k.

FYI,
Marion

If I remember anything else I'll add it.

Thanks, I like that one, nice and simple and no standalone, ;)

[Aries_Turbo]

Thanks, I like that one, nice and simple and no standalone, ;)

in this day and age i find fuel management via regulators and such unacceptable. how many wires does it take to run an engine on a SMEC? you have a burner. you have chips right? dont cobble, do a good job for the kid. 100$ for the dist adapter, you probably have a SMEC and the connectors laying around. solder a handful of wires and you have a tunable EFI setup with room for the future for less than RRR's and stuff like that. plus you would learn skills that would help you tune your van as well. plus the safety of factory turbo knock detection.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

in this day and age i find fuel management via regulators and such unacceptable. how many wires does it take to run an engine on a SMEC? you have a burner. you have chips right? dont cobble, do a good job for the kid. 100$ for the dist adapter, you probably have a SMEC and the connectors laying around. solder a handful of wires and you have a tunable EFI setup with room for the future for less than RRR's and stuff like that. plus you would learn skills that would help you tune your van as well. plus the safety of factory turbo knock detection.

Brian

Damn you, why do you have to make sense, :mad: ;)

[Aries_Turbo]

hehe, im terrible arent i ;)

do you have a scanner simon? if you go the smec route, i can give you a hand retuning the knock threshold table to match the neon. itll take less than an hour to do.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

hehe, im terrible arent i ;)

do you have a scanner simon? if you go the smec route, i can give you a hand retuning the knock threshold table to match the neon. itll take less than an hour to do.

Brian

I have an Ostrich, burner to which I still haven't picked up yet and have a Snap On and OTC scanner.

This won't happen for at least 6 months but he is starting to save money now, :nod:

[shadow88]

My friend Alan's neon uses a cheaper megasquirt system built from a guy in Kitchener, Ontario who goes by "Nuno" .. on neons.org The computer he sent Alan was great and fairly easy to install. It only controlled fuel and ignition timing with no retard and it's working fine for around $225.00. If you're interested, the build is here. - http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22156

Also, it requires a laptop or desktop computer for any changes to be made to the software. It is pretty straight forward. I'd suggest lower than 8.6:1 advertised compression pistons unless you're planning alky injection or not running alot of timing advance. His car has been over 18 psi easily and has made over 210whp. I'm sure it would do more if we could get more ignition timing out of it. -- Just another thought.

[turbovanman²]

It will be getting forged so the compression will be lower. Thanks for the link and another idea. :thumb:

[shadow88]

Those are forged. Advetised at 8.6:1 pistons seem to have a little too much for his car right now. Maybe those and some combustion chamber re-shaping?? That should lower it enough.

[mario03SRT]

The car was professionally tuned with the 8.5 compression pistons on 93 octane and 20 psi.

Better running car while in vacuum and more power with less boost. After all we are talking about the SRT Mitsu turbo afterall. Not a 55/60 lbs per min turbo on 30 psi.

Some may not be aware that the SRT head is a very friendly piece with a very high detonation threshold not like the 2.2. His tune had timing in the low 20's max. 330 horsepower is 25 more HP than anyone could get out of the SRT stocker with ALL the bolt ons. So that says volumes about the setup. With meth or VP race gas and more timing the car will bury the 330hp mark.

Too each their own.

Marion

[turbovanman²]

Most likely won't be using an SRT head, due to cost reasons.

[dunny]

I'd highly recommend an SRT4 turbo setup with megasquirt v2.2 (or v3.0 if you can find a deal). Add a set of nice sized injectors (pick up stock 03 SRT4s for $40) + cheapo intercooler/piping and don't even worry about running a return line just tune via the megasquirt map :)

[mrkindweiler]

so an SRT head directly bolts to a 2.0L ?

[mario03SRT]

so an SRT head directly bolts to a 2.0L ?

Yes that's right! Stainless and Inconel Valves FTW!

I also wanted to add that a 2.0/2.4 NA heads do not have the proper set of valves in order to run a turbo for very long/hard.

Marion

[Anonymous_User]

Yes that's right! Stainless and Inconel Valves FTW!

I also wanted to add that a 2.0/2.4 NA heads do not have the proper set of valves in order to run a turbo for very long/hard.

Marion


Wait!! How many have run the stock DOHC 2.0 head on a 2.2/2.5? I don't recall hearing of massive valve failures.

[dunny]

Yes that's right! Stainless and Inconel Valves FTW!

I also wanted to add that a 2.0/2.4 NA heads do not have the proper set of valves in order to run a turbo for very long/hard.

Marion

Don't forget....I had to have an oil passage welded up and re-drilled to match the 2.0L bottom end. Otherwise it's a direct fit.

For anyone interested you can see the mods done (in photos) here:

http://dunawayphotography.com/jasongallery/main.php?g2_itemId=817

[mario03SRT]

Wait!! How many have run the stock DOHC 2.0 head on a 2.2/2.5? I don't recall hearing of massive valve failures.

EGT's are not your friend! :yuck:

All turbocharged factory engines have alloy material valves, stainless and inconel. You can burn up a valve in a poorly running NA car much less a forced induction engine.

You will start to bleed compression as the valve diameter whittles away and cannot seat any more. Then the fun begins............

FYI,
Marion

[turbovanman²]

Awesome guys, thanks.

[Aries_Turbo]

how many 2.0L/2.4L valve failures have you seen first hand? i sure havent seen many.

proper tuning plays a large part in metal lasting under heat.

Brian

[mario03SRT]

how many 2.0L/2.4L valve failures have you seen first hand? i sure havent seen many.

proper tuning plays a large part in metal lasting under heat.

Brian

Ok you go ahead and put in a Horizon NA 2.2 head on you car and report back to me after a while on 18 psi. Cmon are you really going to debate this? :confused2: Are you going to run a 8.5 afr with meth and 5 psi? They do sell SS valves for these heads you know.

FYI,
Marion

[jl93sundance]

Ok you go ahead and put in a Horizon NA 2.2 head on you car and report back to me after a while on 18 psi. Cmon are you really going to debate this? :confused2: Are you going to run a 8.5 afr with meth and 5 psi? They do sell SS valves for these heads you know.

FYI,
Marion

I don't think a 2.2 n/a head is comparable to the 2.0/2.4 dohc head imo

[Aries_Turbo]

Ok you go ahead and put in a Horizon NA 2.2 head on you car and report back to me after a while on 18 psi. Cmon are you really going to debate this? :confused2: Are you going to run a 8.5 afr with meth and 5 psi? They do sell SS valves for these heads you know.

FYI,
Marion

thats comparing apples to oranges. you and i both know that the TBI valves were definitely lesser quality compared to the turbo exhaust valves.

that doesnt mean that NA 2.0L and 2.4L valves are as bad as the TBI valves. it might just mean that the SRT stuff is overkill. maybe they were getting ready for newer regulations that turbo cars have to run at 14.7:1 in boost?

look at the neon auto tranny. same as a turbo tranny from a few years back. the valves could very well be the same material as a turbo car from a few years back.


I don't think a 2.2 n/a head is comparable to the 2.0/2.4 dohc head imo

exactly. people have been turbocharging neons and 2gnt eclipses (same head only swapped port sides) for years without swapping the valves. you would thing that this would be a widespread fact spread all over the internet if the NA dohc valves were as bad as the old TBI. fact is that they arent as bad. they are much better to be able to handle boost stock.

just because the SRT has different materials doesnt mean that everyone HAS to swap out their perfectly good valves.

my friend Mark had a 2.4L turbo neon. stock head, cams valve, stock block crank etc with SRT pistons and rods swapped in and thats it. 24psi with a 57 trim on megasquirt. nothing failed but axles.

Brian

[Shadow]

Interesting, this reminds me of another thread going on around here........:p So, if I put an SRT head on a SOHC 2.0l bottom end, how much will it drop the compression?

[turbovanman²]

Interesting, this reminds me of another thread going on around here........:p So, if I put an SRT head on a SOHC 2.0l bottom end, how much will it drop the compression?

Ha, you found it, :p

I don't anything, I believe the compression is done thru the pistons.

[Shadow]

Ha, you found it, :p

I don't anything, I believe the compression is done thru the pistons.

I've heard that the DOHC 2.0l head on the SOHC bottom end = lower compression.

[turbovanman²]

I've heard that the DOHC 2.0l head on the SOHC bottom end = lower compression.

Hmmmmm, that would be interesting to find out for sure. I had a SOHC engine apart awhile ago but can't remember the piston top. Slight dish seems to come to mind though.

[TurboRon25]

Hmmmmm, that would be interesting to find out for sure. I had a SOHC engine apart awhile ago but can't remember the piston top. Slight dish seems to come to mind though.

It is true.
DOHC pistons in a SOHC motor will raise the compression, and SOHC pistons in a DOHC motor will lower compression.
I forget how much. ~.5

Ron

[Austrian Dodge]

i'm in the middle of turbocharging a 2.4, and would never ever think of using the stock NA valves! :)

i could save 300 bucks, but why should i, when replacing a broken valve takes time and $$ again?

they MIGHT hold over a certain period of time, i'm not a person to rely on "might hold" when doing something.
see, not saying NA valves have to be replaced, it's just a good idea to do so :thumb:

just my $0.02

simon, go megasquirt ;)