How awesome of an intake would this make??

[Anonymous_User]

http://www.dragonplate.com/ecart/product.asp?pID=819&cID=53


Hmmm.... I might have to take up composite fabrication just to try it out!

Edit: Oops, that one is only 2x2. There is round available in 4" I.D. Crap, hope I didn't lose the link.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Did you see the price?

[Anonymous_User]

Did you see the price?


But of course.

Now I can't find the vendor I was looking at earlier with the 4" round CF pipe.

I did find 3" round, but $300+ for 5 foot. Would be OK if they would sell me 2' for $120ish

[GLHNSLHT2]

then you've got to bind it to the runners :)

[Anonymous_User]

Like this:

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/Copy%20of%20FD1301-20%20RtFr.jpg

Most likely way more work, cost than it is worth.

[GLHNSLHT2]

yep looks cool as hell, but what's it worth hp wise? :)

[Anonymous_User]

yep looks cool as hell, but what's it worth hp wise? :)

Need to fab an intake anyway. Yes, it looks nice and would be a conversation piece, but I guess ultimately it'll just be easier and cheaper to weld an al. oxygen tank to stock runners.

[86trbolancer]

damn that would look sooooo cool under the hood of one of our cars...it would help with the heat soak issues also

[turbovanman²]

Like this:

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/Copy%20of%20FD1301-20%20RtFr.jpg

Most likely way more work, cost than it is worth.



That would look cool under the hood, :nod:

[thefitisgay]

just be easier and cheaper to weld an al. oxygen tank to stock runners.

:confused: i thought oxy tanks were like an inch thick....

[t3rse]

I was planning at one point, to make carbon intakes, but I don't think they would sell for what they are worth. Make the damn thing yourself. Building a vacuum bag setup isn't hard, and the cloth isn't that expensive if you buy enough of it.

[Anonymous_User]

I was planning at one point, to make carbon intakes, but I don't think they would sell for what they are worth. Make the damn thing yourself. Building a vacuum bag setup isn't hard, and the cloth isn't that expensive if you buy enough of it.

That was my initial thought and just started searching around.

Build a 'styrofoam' mold with a hot wire, make intake, acetone out the styro.

Gotta research how to bond it to the alum flange.

[turbovanman²]

I was told not to use tanks as the metal is pretty dirty and can make welding extremely hard, :(

[thefitisgay]

That was my initial thought and just started searching around.

Build a 'styrofoam' mold with a hot wire, make intake, acetone out the styro.

Gotta research how to bond it to the alum flange.

what about fiber glass? heck even if they lasted 10 hours under the hood you could probably make them so fast in so many different shapes til you found a shape worth making out of metal??

[tsiconquest88]

Intake manifolds made of that stuff (even if u used fiberglass) is the best as far as cooler temps are concerned, as i seen someone above say it would help with heat soak, absolutley, they definately do. and as far as them lasting there is no reason they wouldnt i have seen them in many engine bays used for TT setups high power, etc, carbon fiber and the like can take some good temperature abuse and much more than what temps the manifold would see. Not sure what method those guys used for sealing the mani to the aluminum but if ur doin it for urself sealing it with the 5 min epxoy of the higher strength and heat protection would be more than good enough, advanceauto has the stuff i made by permatex..... (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=PTX&MfrPartNumber=84109&CategoryCode=3237) i have used the stuff a million times for a lot of things and ur not budging it or blowing it out by pressure if u use the right ones, just read the package when ur there but that one is one of the better, here is more detailed info of that one and others(http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/adhesives_sealants/epoxies.htm) . Just a little info if any of u actually go to this length to do it for urself to save money. I thought of doin one myself for my newest SQ project but i was aiming toward an aluminum intake, however seein the price u found is pretty sweet actually and as long as ur doing it urself costs would be pretty decent. I may just have at this, did u try finding cheaper prices for that stuff elsewhere man? Someone else may sell it in shorter lengths etc. My point more using an epoxy sealant is due to the fact theirs looks pressed fit and i wouldnt trust that personally, as if im not mistaken the ones i seen used were sealed, even if they werent then u got one up on them cus urs would be lol. make a tight fit but use some of that stuff and ur golden.

[tsiconquest88]

Here is a company that sells up to 5.6 ID CF rolls as custom OR standard orders up to 2.3 inches, i calculated it out from metric (mm) which is how they sell. All sizes are ID, the 103mm offered in the list is 4.05" (damn close enough lol) This link is for their custom size page which is more so what we would need for sizing of manifolds lol...
[url http://carbonfibretubes.co.uk/custom.html[/url]
Keep in mind they are UK but if that matter to ya then check out the prices. Unfortunately i couldnt find anything in USA. Not sure if the link u had (anonymous user) was USA based company or not but i couldnt find anything here in that large of a size unfortunately. Also the thickness of material can be altered too so that would be great for making a nice fit in the runner plates wanted to be used.

[t3rse]

That was my initial thought and just started searching around.

Build a 'styrofoam' mold with a hot wire, make intake, acetone out the styro.

Gotta research how to bond it to the alum flange.

just machine a lip on the flange and use the resin to glue it on...look at the way older Trek mountain bikes were assembled with the aluminum head tube and seat tube and everything else composite.

better than styrofoam...i can't remember the name of the stuff but there is a material that sets up like plaster, handles high heat, and is totally water soluble, so just make a positive in the manner you want, glass negatives, mold up with the solution (bag over this), and then reuse the negative.

[tsiconquest88]

or use the epoxy i was talking about in my post, very easy and handles far more then enough needed for this type of thing.

[Tony Hanna]

...but I guess ultimately it'll just be easier and cheaper to weld an al. oxygen tank to stock runners.


:confused: i thought oxy tanks were like an inch thick....

What are fire extinguishers made of? Plenty of different sizes to choose from, so if they're made of aluminum, might be a decent starting point for a plenum.

[omni_840]

Speaking of custom CF parts, this guy on my local car forum works at a company that make CF parts and was gauging interest in some custom parts. Maybe we could get him to make some :)

[black86glhs]

Your better off using a slow set epoxy if you were going to use it. Fast set doesn't have the same strength. It might work, but I would rather over glue it.

[tsiconquest88]

what more strength would u need than the psi strength that one has lol? and faster setting is nicer cus u dont have to worry about the period of time for things to move on ya over stiffer faster drying. But hey with everything we all have different preferences. I am goin to call tomorrow and see how much that one company link i gave is selling their 4 inch rolls for. and see how much the smaller rolls are to use as the runners, maybe i will do 2, one for the van and one for the SQ (already been planning another mpi intake of sort for it anyway lol)

[t3rse]

don't be a dumbass..do it right. do your research please...carbon fiber resign is not quick set epoxy

[Anonymous_User]

carbon fiber -> aluminum = galvanic reaction

Would need an insulating middle layer of fiberglass.

If you call on the price of a 4" or larger I.D. tube, we could split the cost on like 4ft if it would save a few $$$.


Who has a link to a good DIY carbon/composit how to site? I think I'll go ahead and start practicing the trade on some small stuff over the winter.

[tsiconquest88]

don't be a dumbass..do it right. do your research please...carbon fiber resign is not quick set epoxy

ME the dumbass lol, i was talking about a small bead of the epoxy stuff i used and mentioned in my post with the link to the stuff i use in the joint where u put the CF into the aluminum, as it looks like the guys that made the one used a press fit and i dont think that would be good for long. WTF are u talking about man. I'm NOT saying making the CF with it. I think u need to READ

[tsiconquest88]

Yeah definately man, i am calling today for sure. Sucks they are in UK but i mean its light stuff shouldnt be too crazy for shipping. Especially if they ship the right way and not do stupid expensive methods lol. Since they will cut it in lengths u want we can maybe have them send it usps flat rate, i THINK one of the larger flat rate boxes are big enough to ship 1 or even 2 pieces in one box, but idk we shall see what they say today.

[tsiconquest88]

WOW talking about a misleading website. They only sell in lengths of 150 feet, WTF would we do with that lol, either way i have a quote comming by email from the guy i spke with for 4 tubes for runner and one length for tanks. Just a general number i gave for the runners, as 1 the important thing when making a manifold for urself that many people dont think about is your port size on the head maybe stock maybe ported/polished and ur going to want to match that to ur manifold for optimum output. SO with that said and me not knowing the actual size of these ports since i am new this scene lol and didnt have a manifold off on my van or daytona either when i had it, idk the size so i figured high for a 44mm (2") piece of tube (i know even thats too big) but i figured fopr a price quote its good enough, only would get cheaper for smaller afterall lol. The tank length i quoted for the 103mm (4.05 inches) both being ID so more than enough and little over 1/16 in in mm size. See what we get for price, but 150 feet is useless if we didnt see 10 people or so lol.

[tsiconquest88]

Ok newer update (mods if u want to add this to another thread feel free) My wife found a place in Connecticut (forte carbon fiber) basically all same sizes and this guy does over 12" ID on CF which is insane lol and getting a new machine to do even larger. He does lengths of 20 feet (and is negotiable for shorter) I got prices for 6 feet at $90 a foot in the 4" ID and for runner he does a lot of small stuff so i figured this time on him for 1 5/8 inch runners and thats $40 a foot and has pieces most likely so he could sell us those rather than 6 feet. I squuezed as much info from him in those details as i could for doing as short of a run as possible, he has a 500 minimum which is the issue really so 6 feet becomes inevitable in length orders. Let me know what u think.

[crazymadbastard]

Shoot, I am in connecticut, maybe I can drive to them. Hmm, cf intercooler pipes to go with my cf intercooler.

[tsiconquest88]

lol sure why not, will be using a lot of couplers though for ur bends cus ur probably not going to find anywhere that sells CF with extreme bends.

[Anonymous_User]

If it can be done cheap enough - and 6' for $90 is cheap enough if three people go in on it, each gets two feet for $30.

For the runners, they would probably have to be hand fabricated because they are not round.

I'm in for 2 feet of 4 inch for $30.

[Twisted Noodle]

Introduction-Composite-Materials-Science-Engineering (http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Composite-Materials-Science-Engineering/dp/1560327014/ref=pd_ys_shvl_title)

Composite-Materials-Aircraft-Structures-Education (http://www.amazon.com/Composite-Materials-Aircraft-Structures-Education/dp/1563475405/ref=pd_sim_b_5)

I have been interested in Composites for a while. I wanted to take some classes on forming. I was looking into these books on Amazon. Expensive , but these were recommended to me from a guy who owns "Pursuit" boats.

[cordes]

I'm with Berry. For the price they are charging, I would rather make everything up myself.

[Anonymous_User]

Can't seem to find a decent tutorial on how to do it. Vacuum bagging and all that. Any companies that sell kits to do CF?

[cordes]

Can't seem to find a decent tutorial on how to do it. Vacuum bagging and all that. Any companies that sell kits to do CF?

There was a carbon fiber or fiberglass thread about a week ago which had a couple decent links. IIRC one of them did sell a DIY kit to practice with.

[t3rse]

Bonding Metal

Q: Is there any metal under the carbon fiber?

A: Only the head tube sleeve and rear dropouts (co-molded with the frame) and bottom bracket shell (bonded in after cure).

Q: On your web site you have indicated that aluminum and carbon fibre react so as to cause cathodic corrosion. Is this also the case with steel or cromoly steel and carbon fibre?

A: Yes, it is a problem with steels as well as with aluminum alloys. The easy solution is to prevent contact. One way to do this is to include a single light ply of fiberglass in the layup as an electrical insulator between the metal and carbon. Trek did this with their bonded aluminum lug carbon tube bikes. Specialized did too, and Kestrel uses small patches of fiberglass in the fork and frame where metal parts attach. Aerospace structures do the same. See NASA's document TM-584C, CORROSION CONTROL AND TREATMENT MANUAL.

Q: Bonding of the Aluminum BB shell. Have you had any failures in BB/epoxy bonding since using the cycle?

A: No failure yet after four years of riding! The exterior surface of the aluminum shell has a very heavily knurled surface. I think this helps the epoxy mechanically capture the shell.

Q: Did you do any surface treatments to the BB prior to the epoxy bonding?

A: I cleaned it with acetone. Now I know better, and would also use West System's two part aluminum etch kit. See http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/userinfo/manual/index.htm#2.1 for West System's recommendations on special preparation for various materials.

Q: What brand of epoxy did you use?

A: For bonding I used 3M's DP460, dispensed through their DuoPak squeeze gun cartridge. See 3M's web site for more info: http://www.mmm.com/bonding/.


found here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbonqa.htm

bagging: http://www.info-central.org/construction_vacuumbagging.shtml

You can use a shop vac pretty easily. I've got a badass vaccuum pump, but I don't have room to build a table. In all reality, the aluminum flange will be the most PIA part of the project.

conquest: ...you are difficult to understand. There are much cheaper sources of cloth...you really don't need prerolled tubes.

[tsiconquest88]

No ur making my words sound worse than it has to be justr read this now and not misinterpret like u did with the epoxy thing, i have worked with CF and know something about it not a wiz but at least worked with it enough to know this much, ok well of course there is cheaper source for CLOTH but the fact is who is gonna have or get the equipment for taking and making CF for cheap on here? You do realize to take the resin/cloth formed material u just made (again isnt easy) THEN get it in the round shape requires a machine correct? Well to do it right that is ur not gonna get it round by hand, especially if u never used CF or made it before. that seems to be the point missed here. It aint easy to work with, those who try makin it themselves for the first time nonetheless and or get equipment to do a good job the right way will probably be spending more in time AND money for one manifold for themselve, and all than just getting a tube and doing that route. LIKE anonymous said if we got a few people its awsome at $90 a foot. HOWEVER with me still searchin i may just find the person selling and or cutting in preferred lengths then really not gonna beat that. So to sum it up, to buy the cloth, resin, and such to do it urself that isnt going to be cheap if ur making your tank and runners, then the cost to make your mold for a round tank and then for your runners (whatever shape you want) Or the equipment to actually do a round tank without using a mold as that would be iffy you would never beat the cost at that point lol. the mandrel for doing the wrapping would cost more than the 150 feet of the orginal posted material u could just buy lol.

OH btw the runners can be round if u want why couldnt they u can get that on ebay even (mine will be round) ur just using round smaller diameter tubing like i said OR if u want kind of off round shape there is plenty of that too on the net. EDIT: (actually as far as this i just remembered these heads have oblong shaped ports unlike the SQ) you probably wouldnt be able to mock your shape exactly with the CF so if anything just use round runners that are a tad larger than the port. That is up to u guys what u want to do. Runners like the ones in the pic itself can be bought just as is in that shape for the ports though. And round like the SQ are dime a dozen, eas for me on that end lol.

As far as the aluminum flange, well it wouldnt be that bad to make one up, ok u guys have flanges in aluminum sold right?, yes, now u take that flange get round small pieces of aluminum (this is on the same premise as the pictured mani) tig to the flange and then to that tig in your injector bungs, make your bracket to hold the rail of your choice to the tops of the injectors of course. As long as u can tig weld and such thats but the cost of you running ur electric for the unit lol. Well whatever the route i know im doing this myself and then post it up when im done. (unfortunately it is going to be for my SQ) but still gives the idea). I will be a while with making it of course cus i wont be rushing this as its for my car and i do it right, the van not knockin it or anything i love it but i wasnt going to blow money and time making the intercooler pipes fancy and all as u guys seen what i did and it works well. Whichever route anonymous and I go mines gettin done one way or another or me and him can just as he said split it up between us and do our own. We will of coiurse probably be making them differently in methods and of course one will be for the TD and mine is for a totally different car but whatever lol.

[Anonymous_User]

OK, I misread above, you said $90 per foot for 6 ft. I read $90 for 6 ft.

Whew. $90 per foot. . . now that is a little bigger investment.

Hmmm...

[tsiconquest88]

yea it is thats why im tryin to find places willing to cut full lengths, this guy is only willling to do 6 ft cus he still meets his 500 min order. If we got some people willing to get in then 6 feet at 90 a foot wouldnt be bad. But apparently a certain person think its so easy and cost effective to make their own ROUND stock then let em go at it. Flat pieces of course is easier and can be done, however making your own things need to be thought about, keeping in mind to make sure you do it with a crossweave, anything straight your going to be getting longitudal cracks without question. Just so everyone knows also like i said a mandrel is used to wrap for round stock at professional places (again buying that is more than 150 feet of stock lol) Now there is round molds but i dont think that is going to make a strong enough form for an intake. However u look at it, buying the cloth (which isnt cheap per say but u can buy small amounts which is cheaper) get your resin, a round mold, then u got your chemical u need for the mold so the cured CF u made can actually be taken off the mold (this is if trying a round mold idea works). Otherwise mandrel time lol.

[tsiconquest88]

I did find a woman on ebay selling red/black carbon fiber round stock but its in 7" sections and those can be mended together but getting it to look like one solid piece? Not at home lol. She got the stuff from Borla when they stopped making CF motorcycle mufflers. Has a bunch of the stuff she said. Has matching CF clamps which she said she would throw in to try and i laughed, anyway im searchin around might just get lucky.

[tsiconquest88]

Ok got lucky will post up pics when im done!!

[t3rse]

No ur making my words sound worse than it has to be justr read this now and not misinterpret like u did with the epoxy thing, i have worked with CF and know something about it not a wiz but at least worked with it enough to know this much, ok well of course there is cheaper source for CLOTH but the fact is who is gonna have or get the equipment for taking and making CF for cheap on here? You do realize to take the resin/cloth formed material u just made (again isnt easy) THEN get it in the round shape requires a machine correct? Well to do it right that is ur not gonna get it round by hand, especially if u never used CF or made it before. that seems to be the point missed here. It aint easy to work with, those who try makin it themselves for the first time nonetheless and or get equipment to do a good job the right way will probably be spending more in time AND money for one manifold for themselve, and all than just getting a tube and doing that route. LIKE anonymous said if we got a few people its awsome at $90 a foot. HOWEVER with me still searchin i may just find the person selling and or cutting in preferred lengths then really not gonna beat that. So to sum it up, to buy the cloth, resin, and such to do it urself that isnt going to be cheap if ur making your tank and runners, then the cost to make your mold for a round tank and then for your runners (whatever shape you want) Or the equipment to actually do a round tank without using a mold as that would be iffy you would never beat the cost at that point lol. the mandrel for doing the wrapping would cost more than the 150 feet of the orginal posted material u could just buy lol.

OH btw the runners can be round if u want why couldnt they u can get that on ebay even (mine will be round) ur just using round smaller diameter tubing like i said OR if u want kind of off round shape there is plenty of that too on the net. EDIT: (actually as far as this i just remembered these heads have oblong shaped ports unlike the SQ) you probably wouldnt be able to mock your shape exactly with the CF so if anything just use round runners that are a tad larger than the port. That is up to u guys what u want to do. Runners like the ones in the pic itself can be bought just as is in that shape for the ports though. And round like the SQ are dime a dozen, eas for me on that end lol.

As far as the aluminum flange, well it wouldnt be that bad to make one up, ok u guys have flanges in aluminum sold right?, yes, now u take that flange get round small pieces of aluminum (this is on the same premise as the pictured mani) tig to the flange and then to that tig in your injector bungs, make your bracket to hold the rail of your choice to the tops of the injectors of course. As long as u can tig weld and such thats but the cost of you running ur electric for the unit lol. Well whatever the route i know im doing this myself and then post it up when im done. (unfortunately it is going to be for my SQ) but still gives the idea). I will be a while with making it of course cus i wont be rushing this as its for my car and i do it right, the van not knockin it or anything i love it but i wasnt going to blow money and time making the intercooler pipes fancy and all as u guys seen what i did and it works well. Whichever route anonymous and I go mines gettin done one way or another or me and him can just as he said split it up between us and do our own. We will of coiurse probably be making them differently in methods and of course one will be for the TD and mine is for a totally different car but whatever lol.

You do understand that working with CF is almost exactly like working with fiber glass right? I don't know what kind of equipment you think you need, but other than a vacuum bagger, and autoclave if you making load bearing parts, there is nothing special needed.

I just can't read what you write. It makes no sense and is garbled to me.

Good luck on the project. I hope you have a better idea of what you are doing that it sounds like.

[tsiconquest88]

LOL u do realize to make round tubing as i said a pro company uses a mandrel. Anyway like i said cloth also costs money. Besides i found a awsome price on tubes already done and u wont be making it cheaper than that. Your worst part is making up your aluminum flange for the head that will have your CF runners going to. Besides all this that mani pictured isnt for turbo application, and its for honda. A flange has to be made up. Tig welding for that is the most of this project. Making CF in anything that isnt flat pieces isnt easy and if anyone wants to try that never did it like i said- go for it, but ur not saving much money if anything at all, which was my point but its NOT cheap per say for CF, u are still paying for the cloth and the epoxy/resin. And to make a nice piece you have to smooth it out and use a good clearcoat for shine. That dont happen by magic from making it lol. Not to mention like i said above (as with all this i already said) you do want crossweave cloth and be unidirectional so you dont get cracks, well this helps from cracking i should say. Much stronger and you wont get the longitude direction cracks. Anyway my main point is i would search for the best price and got it. Will post pics soon as i finish but will be a while, mainly since i have an upcomming long overdue surgery in January. Gonna be a decent amount of recovery time but its going to save my life to say the least. BTW the price i got was 100 bucks now, for 4" ID tube 19 inches long (not that i need that much), a wall thickness of 1/8", and a piece of smaller diameter round tube for my runners of size 2 feet, shipped to my door. Pultruded, unidirectional-crossweave. Finished to a shine.

[t3rse]

Any ------- with a piece of pipe can make carbon tubes.

It is JUST like working with fiber glass. You cut it up into appropriately sized pieces, impregnate, and apply. When you are done, you use a breathable membrane and resign absorber, and bag, and pull a vac (I've already posted links on how to do this step). Which ever side is on the mandrel is smooth and can be buffed to a shine (no clear needed). The side next to the absorber will be dull. That is why I stated before, to make a negative out of glass, and use a dissolvable mandrel for the inner part. Regardless, I don't know about Anon, but I couldn't care less how it looks as long as it works. As far as the flange...not so easy as you want to make it. The entire thing needs to be machined to accept injector bosses, and any other entries need to be machined, such as TB plate, vac ports, etc.

I'm not going to even start on why using a pre cured tube is a horrid idea.

[tsiconquest88]

oh boy, for starters i know ALL i need to on the flange, injector bosses and all. I am fine and it will be fine. ALSO WHY in the ---- is a pre made piece bad, its is machine made and already cut, Why would it be worse than your own made one lol, heck one made by someone that dont know how or is trying for the first time would be a sure possibility to ---- up over one that is done by a professional company on a mandrel with premium materials and design. that made no ------ sense dude. You are really irritating me now, go ---- off somewhere else instead of bringing up stuff that u THINK i didnt think of, first off why would i discuss fuel rail, injector bosses etc when thats not needed to be brought up since no one is interested in making one, im not going to go through the design process for pleasure of typing for no reason lol!!! I am done arguing with you and im not going to bother discussing anything more, its done!! Say as you will, and if its so easy go make your own!!! However if you think the one pictured is a prized piece you need to think again lol.