Ideas needed for Draw-through setup mod

[john1320]

Hey everyone,i thought i would tap the almighty TM knowledge base this week.
I have a couple ideas concerning enhancing my draw-through T1 setup.
Before you even think of saying "just T2 it!", just remember i have a whole bag shoosh!, with your name on it :p
I want my Charger to look T1 when ppl look under the skirt. Nuf said..

Okay, so, here's my questions-
1. Has anyone seen benefits from a LARGER draw-through throttle body?

*this would be something i know SOMEBODY has to have fabbed and tried..

2. Has anyone seen benefits from a larger plenum volume intake mani? (fabbed)

3. Has anyone fabbed and tried BOTH on a draw-though?

Keep in mind i have a stage3 computer and free exaust as a start.

I need any information the community might have on this Theoretical T1 setup- reason being i may have a 48mm unit custom made by a friend, but if this whole modded setup is diminishing returns, i may have to reconsider.
Thanks guys

[BadAssPerformance]

I know of a could that ran well with ported intakes and a larger throttle body. Larger spec T03 garret will look stock and make more power :thumb:

The custom large intake would take away fromt he stock appearance so look in your bag of SHOOOSH! ;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

Original or stock? The bigger plenum isn't going to look either. But a nicely done 87 T2 setup will look stock. People assume the 87 T2 setup on my 87 New Yorker is stock. Which in a way it is if I had bought the car in Mexico :) Of course If I were you I'd go with the 87 T2 setup. Looks stock and performs way way way better.

[turbovanman²]

If you made a new intake out of aluminum tubing or round stock, it would look stock to the naked eye and as a bonus, it is tucked away at the back.

In all honestly, I bet a larger intake and T/B would do wonders, :D

[BadAssPerformance]

13.77 on a BONE STOCK '87 T1 log motor :thumb: running 25psi :eek:

Right click - save as...

http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/ny_1377_burnout.wmv
http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/ny_1377_incar_burnout.wmv
http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/ny_1377.wmv
http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/ny_1377.wmv

http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/burnout_6.jpg

[1984rampage]

I was thinkin.. For a badass log setup couldnt you get a nice ported head, a bigger turbo, huge exhaust, meth injection for cooling, and run high boost for a bad fast log car?

[GLHNSLHT2]

uhh stripped and gutted with slicks?? My fully loaded stock engine and tranny converted to T2, no cat but the rest of the exhaust stock 87 New Yorker, ran 14.3 with it's cheap all-season tires at 15psi of boost.

Should be interesting to see what it does now with a .63 housing, and 3" exhaust, and some tranny beefing up this next year.

[BadAssPerformance]

uhh stripped and gutted with slicks?? My fully loaded stock engine and tranny converted to T2, no cat but the rest of the exhaust stock 87 New Yorker, ran 14.3 with it's cheap all-season tires at 15psi of boost.

Should be interesting to see what it does now with a .63 housing, and 3" exhaust, and some tranny beefing up this next year.

Yeah the Chicago car was lightened a tad.... and stock T2 it went 12.60's ;)

Your loaded NYer should be a solid 13 second car with those mods :thumb:

[john1320]

I know of a could that ran well with ported intakes and a larger throttle body. Larger spec T03 garret will look stock and make more power :thumb:

The custom large intake would take away fromt he stock appearance so look in your bag of SHOOOSH! ;)

Good point, def wouln't look stock to one of us.
I thought i could get away with cutting the backside if one open and adding there for more volume. Wouln't take much material to double existing volume, so shouldn't be that big. (at least i'm thinking)

[john1320]

13.77 on a BONE STOCK '87 T1 log motor :thumb: running 25psi :eek:

http://www.badassperformance.com/sdac/newyorker/burnout_6.jpg

Now thats motivation!
Why is it crying? Now i feel bad for it...
Could it be begging for mercy under 25psi? :evil:

If you had bigger TB and more plenum volume, shouldn't that help up top?
Maybee see low 13? I DO have plans for Alky or meth injection as cindy's cal is preset for intercooling provisions. (have been running 10psi w/o)

[BadAssPerformance]

Yes, better flow would help... we switched from thr T1 Log to a T1 blow-thru and it ran low 13's.

The screaming (sounded like Darth Vader's Tie Fighter) was due to a loose hose clamp on the intake, was like that till we switched to the blow thru :o

EDIT: we ran ~25psi non-intercooled on CSX stage II Logic Module, stock T2 injectors and 110 (or better) race gas mixed with 87 or whatever the car had in it when we got it :eek:

[john1320]

So you used a blo-thru mani but were still on draw-thru setup TB and such?
Any pics?

[black86glhs]

I've wondered if you made a long runner intake for the early TI and a 52mm TB if it would get you any more torque. Mainly the intake.

[BadAssPerformance]

Maybe I said that wrong...

Originally a stock '87 T1 log suck thru "log" intake and TB, best of 13.77

Switched to a stock '89 T2 (1-piece) blow thru intake and TB, low 13's (non intercooled)

[contraption22]

You'd gain more with an intercooler than any of those mods....

Lemme know when your bag of shooosh is empty.

[BadAssPerformance]

You'd gain more with an intercooler than any of those mods....

Lemme know when your bag of shooosh is empty.

SHOOOSH! wait.... unless you're talking about .... liquid intercoolers, right Mike? :eyebrows: a nice hidden nitrous makes a log car fly :D

[1984rampage]

meth injection?

[contraption22]

meth injection?

I ran met with good success on a log T1. Others have as well!

[black86glhs]

You'd gain more with an intercooler than any of those mods....

Lemme know when your bag of shooosh is empty.I agree, but always wondered if it would make a difference on what I posted.

[The Pope]

Hey everyone,i thought i would tap the almighty TM knowledge base this week.
I have a couple ideas concerning enhancing my draw-through T1 setup.
Before you even think of saying "just T2 it!", just remember i have a whole bag shoosh!, with your name on it :p
I want my Charger to look T1 when ppl look under the skirt. Nuf said..

Okay, so, here's my questions-
1. Has anyone seen benefits from a LARGER draw-through throttle body?

*this would be something i know SOMEBODY has to have fabbed and tried..

2. Has anyone seen benefits from a larger plenum volume intake mani? (fabbed)

3. Has anyone fabbed and tried BOTH on a draw-though?

Keep in mind i have a stage3 computer and free exaust as a start.

I need any information the community might have on this Theoretical T1 setup- reason being i may have a 48mm unit custom made by a friend, but if this whole modded setup is diminishing returns, i may have to reconsider.
Thanks guys

Warren Stammer did a hybrid, 52mm TB, lower 2 piece, over the valve cover IC suck through a long time ago. Would be the one to ask. One problem I see with the plenum mod is the fueling. The stock setup gives less fuel to the 1-2 cylinders because less air gets back there. So you'll need to have FWD make you a cal for it. FM sold and may still sell the larger suck through TB they used to make, they can tell you what it is worth.

[john1320]

I have been doing futher research into the log setup locally. I learned about the overall poor design of log along with your help too. Both options I have of using the draw-through setup are not realistic. The first option was the old school over the top intercooled kit (too expensive and still flow limited). The second was what i posted at top. This path was also expensive- considering the more limited overall performance return vs investment. I went back to corky bell's book on draw through setups to see what he had thought. Apperently the turbo sees massive vacuum pressure when the throttle plate is snapped shut. :yuck: this slows the turbo and wears on the bearings.
This probably explains why i used to have laag between shifts on my old daytona, and a prematurely worn-out turbo too boot.
I wonder if a carefully designed D-valve on hard pipe would open to alleviate that problem to a degree? Neg pressure would pull the valve open to allow air in until the throttle plate opened again.
If i were a rich man i would have BOTH options and a vacuum relief valve incorporated in a draw through, to see maximum performance and drivabilty.

After long disussions and my being de-noobified on drawthrough, i decided to swap over to blow through, non-intercooled.
Thanks all, pope, and badass. Guiding lights*
Best of all the swap is free minus the adapter snout :amen:
oh,
BTW, I have a whole bag of whoosh!, with your BOV on it hehe

[The Pope]

A turbo is liking life best on a blow through with the BOV right next to the TB. But you need to think about how far you want to go. You can still run an intercooler and look stock, buy a stock intercooler?

[john1320]

this is an L-body, i feel like it's super crammed in there for space

[GLHNSLHT2]

Just need a GLHS Rad/intercooler setup. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1505 Hard to look much more stock than that :)

[john1320]

i have a K body too same yr and all, 87 Lebaron 4dr (T2 converted)
great sleepers :D

1985 chargers didn't get T2 fitted, as far as i know...

[chilort]

Forward Motion made 48mm throttle bodies. I've got a TB that is 48mm and I'm not sure if it was done by FM or the person I bought it from. At the same time I converted from a regular log to a log with the neck rerouted to the front so I could run an intercooler. I also run a stage 3 FWD Performance cal, 804 injectors, afpr, bigger exhaust, '88 roller cam, head with a 3 angle valve job, etc. The car is quite a bit of fun to drive, but I have no real performance data (dyno or 1/4mile times).

I'm currently working on a big plenum log, but I'm only in the early stages. I likely ported a little too much and may start over. A real big problem with the log is that injector bung is in the long radius of the intake and that really stinks for airflow.

Before:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2983199314_5060f96d1a_b.jpg

After:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2983201178_eae7a543e7_b.jpg

Its easier to just go with the standard stuff, but I enjoy using my noodle a bit to see what I can make work.

[GLHNSLHT2]

i have a K body too same yr and all, 87 Lebaron 4dr (T2 converted)
great sleepers :D

Yep, almost too much. Hard to get a race. A bit easier now with 3" straight pipe. But if you want to go fast you have to really mean it with the accelerator pedal.



1985 chargers didn't get T2 fitted, as far as i know...

No, but can't tell between an 85 or an 87 for the most part :)

[The Pope]

Forward Motion made 48mm throttle bodies. I've got a TB that is 48mm and I'm not sure if it was done by FM or the person I bought it from. At the same time I converted from a regular log to a log with the neck rerouted to the front so I could run an intercooler. I also run a stage 3 FWD Performance cal, 804 injectors, afpr, bigger exhaust, '88 roller cam, head with a 3 angle valve job, etc. The car is quite a bit of fun to drive, but I have no real performance data (dyno or 1/4mile times).

I'm currently working on a big plenum log, but I'm only in the early stages. I likely ported a little too much and may start over. A real big problem with the log is that injector bung is in the long radius of the intake and that really stinks for airflow.

Before:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2983199314_5060f96d1a_b.jpg

After:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2983201178_eae7a543e7_b.jpg

Its easier to just go with the standard stuff, but I enjoy using my noodle a bit to see what I can make work.

A little scotch bright to make it pretty but the port looks real good. You treated the bung hole like a valve guide, should work good. As long as the hole isn't bigger than the gasket:nod:

[chilort]

Thanks!

It is opened up to the gasket width and height. But I'll be putting this one a 782 head. It is likely opened up way to far for any ported 782 head I could make or buy that will work worth a damn.

[turbovanman²]

Thanks!

It is opened up to the gasket width and height. But I'll be putting this one a 782 head. It is likely opened up way to far for any ported 782 head I could make or buy that will work worth a damn.

If the intake is larger, open up the port on the head otherwise the air will stall and swirl, like hitting a brick wall, :banghead:

[chilort]

That's probably while I'll start over. There's no way I'm going to have the step go that direction. I really should have started with a ported head and opened up the intake according to a template cut from the head. Instead, being new to this, I gasket matched the intake, and that is just too much to cut out of a 782 head from what I understand.

[GLHNSLHT2]

my 782 matches the gasket

[john1320]

Looks good!

[The Pope]

That's probably while I'll start over. There's no way I'm going to have the step go that direction. I really should have started with a ported head and opened up the intake according to a template cut from the head. Instead, being new to this, I gasket matched the intake, and that is just too much to cut out of a 782 head from what I understand.

Gasket match a G head and use 84-85 rods and pistons. Looks like an 86 but a lot better engine.

[turbovanman²]

That's probably while I'll start over. There's no way I'm going to have the step go that direction. I really should have started with a ported head and opened up the intake according to a template cut from the head. Instead, being new to this, I gasket matched the intake, and that is just too much to cut out of a 782 head from what I understand.

You don't need to do the whole port, just flare the opening and taper in.

[contraption22]

I recently came across an article in and old High Performance Mopar Magazine in which they dyno tested modifications to a stock GLHT. They added a bigger TB, underdrive pulley, cold-air intake, 33lb injectors, a MP computer and a bleed up to 11.5psi and made almost as much power as a stock GLHS.