555 bearing carnage

[Tony Hanna]

Anybody know what the part # is for this bearing?:) Timken, BCA, whatever. Anything I can cross reference. It's the front bearing (bellhousing side) on the main shaft? Intermediate shaft? I'm not sure what the proper name for it is.:o The one that's not the input shaft... yeah, that's it!:D
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/p_00104.jpg

Also, I can't really tell if it's supposed to have an inner race or use the shaft as the inner race. The shaft is pretty chewed up, but if there's an inner race that goes on it, I should be able to clean it up with some emery cloth. If it's intended to use the shaft itself as an inner race, then I'm going to have to turn the shaft down and make a collar to press on it.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/p_00105.jpg

Thanks,

Tony

[black86glhs]

It is a SET4 bearing. That will apply to almost any bearing. I would either have the shaft repaired or do the collar repair like you said. It has an inner race, but that shaft is pretty bad.

[spoolinhard]

What were you doing to that poor thing......
and I thought that you couldnt get bearings anymore.

[black86glhs]

I know you can get input shaft bearings. I just rebuilt my 525 and and the 555 uses the same ones. I do know there are certain gears that are hard to find.

[Tony Hanna]

It is a SET4 bearing. That will apply to almost any bearing. I would either have the shaft repaired or do the collar repair like you said. It has an inner race, but that shaft is pretty bad.


I just looked up a set4 to price it and they're showing a tapered bearing. This is (was) a straight roller bearing. I think the set4 is the right one for the input shaft, but I'm dealing with the other shaft (whatever it's called).

Thanks,

Tony

[black86glhs]

:banghead::banghead:Damn it, sorry Tony. I once again missed part of your post.:yuck: I had input shaft on the brain. Maybe I have been thinking about sex too much, well not too much...lol.:thumb:

With that being said, you'll have to use a collar on the shaft. No inner race.

[Tony Hanna]

What were you doing to that poor thing......
and I thought that you couldnt get bearings anymore.

I'm not sure what happened. That trans suffered a diff bearing failure a few thousand miles ago and was apart to get new ones. Maybe some contamination from that that got missed?


:banghead::banghead:Damn it, sorry Tony. I once again missed part of your post.:yuck: I had input shaft on the brain. Maybe I have been thinking about sex too much, well not too much...lol.:thumb:

With that being said, you'll have to use a collar on the shaft. No inner race.

LOL.
I wonder if they make a repair bearing specifically for that? The reason I ask is that we've got a disassembled 568 in John's basement and it has some sort of inner race or collar pressed onto the shaft in that spot with the same brand name (KOYO?) as the bearing stamped into the collar. The odd thing is that it didn't seem like anybody had been into the 568.:confused2:

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Ok,
I think I've got it figured out. It looks like the pre-1990 transmissions used the shaft as the inner race and the 1990+ transmissions had a collar that went on the shaft and served as an inner race. That explains the difference between the shaft out of the 555 and the one out of the 568. So, that brings me to a new question. Would the bearing for a 568 fit if I had the shaft turned to take the collar? If the OD and thickness are right, then that looks like it might be the simplest solution.:)
I'd measure the two bearings to compare, if there was enough left of the 555 bearing to measure.:banghead:

Thanks,
Tony

[boost geek]

I replaced all my bearings. The input shaft has common taper bearings, which are easy to get. The output shaft (I think it's called that) has a special bearing on the bellhousing side, which I could only get through Mopar, couldn't find an after market one.
My shaft was a little bit worse than your's. It's a bad bearing design, the rollers ride on the shaft, not on a bearing collar like a regular bearing. This is the reason I use some gear lube in my 520, 2 litres Synchromesh, 1 litre 80/90 gear lube. The car vibrated something crazy down the freeway. like a wheel was gonna fall off...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/2005_0215tranny0005.jpg

[jre97]

What were you doing to that poor thing......
and I thought that you couldnt get bearings anymore.

18psi and I beat on it.:D I didn't drive it long once I heard the noise which sounded like I was dragging my exhaust,parked the car and "temporarily" put an a413 in. The car got traded off with the auto in it and the 555 ended up with the collection of parts in my basement.

[black86glhs]

The other shaft is the intermediate shaft. Instead of an output shaft, we use the transfer gear.

[black86glhs]

So we need to find out what the bearing numbers are so someone can have them crossed to find another one that will work. Just need to call a bearing distributer in the area and ask them what they can find. We used to do this at the plant once in a while.

[butchsuppe]

If that trans is an 89 I got the shaft and bearing to fix it. Hows $20. + shipping sound ? Than particular bearing is somwewhat hard to come by, the one I have is a good used one. These parts came out of a good trans I rebuilt into an Hybird with an OBX.

[jre97]

I hate to speak for Tony but yeah the tranny came out of an 89 but the manufacture date on the tag is like 11/10/87. I figured the 89's were probably released mid 88 so it was probably the original tranny :confused:

[Tony Hanna]

I replaced all my bearings. The input shaft has common taper bearings, which are easy to get. The output shaft (I think it's called that) has a special bearing on the bellhousing side, which I could only get through Mopar, couldn't find an after market one.
My shaft was a little bit worse than your's. It's a bad bearing design, the rollers ride on the shaft, not on a bearing collar like a regular bearing. This is the reason I use some gear lube in my 520, 2 litres Synchromesh, 1 litre 80/90 gear lube. The car vibrated something crazy down the freeway. like a wheel was gonna fall off...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/2005_0215tranny0005.jpg

Might give some thicker lube a try this time. Any trouble with shifting on a cold morning with that mix?

So we need to find out what the bearing numbers are so someone can have them crossed to find another one that will work. Just need to call a bearing distributer in the area and ask them what they can find. We used to do this at the plant once in a while.
There used to be a place in Parkersburg called Bearings Inc. If it was still open, I'm sure they could find something just based on measurements.:nod: I'm still kind of curious to see if the OD and thickness is the same with the 568 bearing. If it is, and the 555 intermediate shaft could be turned down so that the inner race fits then that would probably work. Assuming the 568 intermediate shaft bearing isn't NS1 also.


If that trans is an 89 I got the shaft and bearing to fix it. Hows $20. + shipping sound ? Than particular bearing is somwewhat hard to come by, the one I have is a good used one. These parts came out of a good trans I rebuilt into an Hybird with an OBX.
You take Paypal? If that will work with this trans, I'm all over it! How fast do you think you can get it shipped out? Not sure how long it would take to ship, but ideally I'd like to put the trans back together next weekend.:)




I hate to speak for Tony but yeah the tranny came out of an 89 but the manufacture date on the tag is like 11/10/87. I figured the 89's were probably released mid 88 so it was probably the original tranny :confused:

I bet you're right. Hope so anyway. A new (used) shaft will solve the chipped tooth on the transfer gear as well.:thumb:

[tryingbe]

Been there, done that.

http://www.thelostartof.net/trans/ddtrans_0237.JPG


http://www.thelostartof.net/trans/ddtrans_0238.JPG

[Tony Hanna]

Looks familiar. Any idea what caused it?

[butchsuppe]

If the tag says 87 the shaft I got won't work. 89 is a trans all by itself. 87-88 trans are the same. A loose diff can cause the damage to the shaft bearing, I learned that the hard way.

[Tony Hanna]

If the tag says 87 the shaft I got won't work. 89 is a trans all by itself. 87-88 trans are the same. A loose diff can cause the damage to the shaft bearing, I learned that the hard way.

I bet you're right. The diff bearings in that trans had failed and been replaced. It's a shame the one you have won't work. I guess I need to figure out where to go from here. Thanks for trying anyhow.:)

[black86glhs]

Tony, if you can get some numbers off the bearing(not yours but a known good 89 yr model), I'll check with some places around here and see what I can come up with.

[Tony Hanna]

If the tag says 87 the shaft I got won't work. 89 is a trans all by itself. 87-88 trans are the same. A loose diff can cause the damage to the shaft bearing, I learned that the hard way.

Ok, now I'm curious. What's the difference between the '87-'88 and the '89 555? Is it just the shaft or is the bearing different as well? If the bearing is the same, would it be possible for you to measure the outside diameter and thickness of the bearing with a micrometer or a set of calipers?

Thanks,
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Tony, if you can get some numbers off the bearing(not yours but a known good 89 yr model), I'll check with some places around here and see what I can come up with.

Thanks! I'm thinking along the same lines, but I'm really interested to see if the bearing for a 523/568/543 can be made to work. Since the shaft is damaged anyway, it might simply be a matter of turning the shaft down to accept the inner race from the newer style bearing. I just need to get OD and thickness measurements from an intact 555 bearing to make sure they're the same.:)

[black86glhs]

Ok, now I'm curious. What's the difference between the '87-'88 and the '89 555? Is it just the shaft or is the bearing different as well? If the bearing is the same, would it be possible for you to measure the outside diameter and thickness of the bearing with a micrometer or a set of calipers?

Thanks,
TonyWe really need Cliff R to pipe up and let us know...lol. Kind of makes me wish my 555 was out of the car. I'm going to rebuild it anyway and I could get measurements. Darn it.

[Tony Hanna]

We really need Cliff R to pipe up and let us know...lol. Kind of makes me wish my 555 was out of the car. I'm going to rebuild it anyway and I could get measurements. Darn it.

Cliff isn't on here too often is he?
I guess I could pop the bearing out of the 568 case and see if it will fit the 555 case. Aside from comparing measurements, trying to install it would be the next best thing I guess. I'd also need to pull the inner race and compare the diameter of the 568 shaft to the one out of the 555. I just wish I didn't live so far away. It's kind of hard to justify a 3 hour round trip just to test a theory.:banghead:

[black86glhs]

Cliff isn't on here too often is he?
I guess I could pop the bearing out of the 568 case and see if it will fit the 555 case. Aside from comparing measurements, trying to install it would be the next best thing I guess. I'd also need to pull the inner race and compare the diameter of the 568 shaft to the one out of the 555. I just wish I didn't live so far away. It's kind of hard to justify a 3 hour round trip just to test a theory.:banghead:Day late and a dollar short, aren't we......LOL!

[Tony Hanna]

Day late and a dollar short, aren't we......LOL!

LOL, yeah. I get to think about it for the rest of the week before I make it back up there to try anything. Unless maybe John gets feeling froggy and decides to test the theory for me. Though after working all night, I doubt he wants to come home and work on my junk too.:)

[black86glhs]

Does anyone know if the intermediate shaft bearing is the same between the 525 and 555? Hell, I'll tear it back apart and measure it if it is.

[BadAssPerformance]

Ok, now I'm curious. What's the difference between the '87-'88 and the '89 555? Is it just the shaft or is the bearing different as well? If the bearing is the same, would it be possible for you to measure the outside diameter and thickness of the bearing with a micrometer or a set of calipers?

Thanks,
Tony

'87-'88 has a different 1-2 synchro setup than '89 so the intermediate shaft is differetn splines on it for the gears to slide onto ... I'll see if I got a pic

[black86glhs]

'87-'88 has a different 1-2 synchro setup than '89 so the intermediate shaft is differetn splines on it for the gears to slide onto ... I'll see if I got a picOk, but is the shaft still the same size and use the same bearing? Or has someone already shot that down?

[BadAssPerformance]

T-M Knowledge Center FTW!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=80

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles/editor/assets/photos/A520shafts3.jpg

[86Shelby]

The bearing that you can use to replace it is one for a 520. It's not quite as wide, though it is a suitable replacement for the 555 bearing. Last I knew the 520 bearing was still available through Mopar. If Mopar doesn't have them I have found them in rebuild kits that Iv'e bought through a local transmission shop. This failure is the reason you ALWAYS replace that bearing when rebuilding one of these tranmissions.

I don't know of anyone that makes a collar that can be pressed on like the 523/568's use.

[black86glhs]

Cool, now I know why the 89's are stronger.
OK, someone get me the numbers off the 520 bearing and I'll see what I can come up with for a slightly wider 555 bearing.

[Tony Hanna]

Does anyone know if the intermediate shaft bearing is the same between the 525 and 555? Hell, I'll tear it back apart and measure it if it is. Surely somebody has one laying around they could measure without you having to go to the trouble of tearing a trans down? I do appreciate the offer though!


T-M Knowledge Center FTW!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=80

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles/editor/assets/photos/A520shafts3.jpg

Thanks JT. Near as I can tell from the pic, the ends of the shafts look to be the same size, so I'm going to guess they take the same bearing. I just need to see if I can get somebody that has one of the bearings laying around to measure it for me.

I think I'm going to e-mail Cliff. If anybody would have a 555 bearing and a 568 bearing laying around they could compare, it would be him. Who knows, he might very well have had the same idea and already know whether or not it will work.

Thanks for the help guys!

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Ok, I sent Cliff an e-mail asking about the idea and included a link to this thread. Hopefully he will be able to give a definite answer one way or the other so I can either order a new 568 bearing or move on to looking for an alternative.

[butchsuppe]

The bearing I have measures 2.5 ", brand is KOYO P/N RNU070618-6. I wouldn't be suprised if the 525 has the same bearing. I have to agree that the 520 bearing should work as well. Cliff R once told me a 523 shaft would work if you removed the collar off VERY CAREFULLY. I haven't done it but I've heard of using a 523 shaft and bearing in a 555 trans, but I can't guarantee that info is right.

[butchsuppe]

Call TU he may still have a set of 3.50 gears for an 87 trans. Going to this FD you only notice a slight differance even with an OBX in it.

[Tony Hanna]

The bearing I have measures 2.5 ", brand is KOYO P/N RNU070618-6. I wouldn't be suprised if the 525 has the same bearing. I have to agree that the 520 bearing should work as well. Cliff R once told me a 523 shaft would work if you removed the collar off VERY CAREFULLY. I haven't done it but I've heard of using a 523 shaft and bearing in a 555 trans, but I can't guarantee that info is right.

Thanks!!! That's exactly what I needed to know.:D

If Cliff told you that a 523 shaft would work minus the collar, then it would stand to reason that the end of both shafts are the same OD. So, in theory, I could clean up the 555 shaft and install a collar with no serious machine work. This should work great because it looks as though most of the nastiness on the shaft is metal that's built up, not gouged off. My guess is it's bits of the bearing that have been friction welded to the shaft. Obviously it'll never be fit to serve as a race again but should be fine to accept the collar with some cleanup.:clap:
John is going to pull the bearing out of the 568 case tomorrow and measure it. If it turns out to be 2.5" OD (I'm betting it will if what you heard about using a 523 shaft and bearing in a 555 is true), then it looks like I'm back in the game.:)

Thanks again,

Tony

[black86glhs]

I found some info on TD and Cliff himself said to use bearing part #4202590 for the A-520. Torrington bearing #DB-67309. Gonna look into this number and see what I can come up with.

[Tony Hanna]

I found some info on TD and Cliff himself said to use bearing part #4202590 for the A-520. Torrington bearing #DB-67309. Gonna look into this number and see what I can come up with.

Looks like a DB-67309 is also used as a rear wheel bearing for the 7.5" and 8.8" Ford rear ends.

Copied from an Ebay auction:


Kit number : 8 ***Free Delivery on this kit***

To suit Disc Brake / Drum Brake C-clip Rear ends on all models of FORD.MUSTANG: from 1979 to 2004 fitted with 7.5" and 8.8" ring gear.Coupe & Convertable(will not fit 6.75 inch ring gear:They will not fit independent Rear Ends)

These bearings are made by Torrington in the USA.

They are brand new.

Kit number 8 (TWO WHEEL KIT) contains the following part numbers 2x DB67309 roller bearings & 2x 8660S National USA oil seals.

That should be easy enough to get at any local parts store. Just buy a wheel bearing for a '79 to '04 Mustang. Even if it's a different brand bearing it should be the same right?:thumb:

[black86glhs]

Also found this info.

What I pulled out of the axle:

Bearing: Torrington DB-67309
Seal: National 46485 on the rim, S-11720 inside

What I picked up from Napa:
-Bearing $22
napa part number R1563-TAV
"SKF" on the box
Torrington DB-67309 inside
-Seal $9
napa part number 14119
"SKF" on the box
NAK TBGJYW6 inside


So it looks like the D35 and D44A (c-clip) use the same bearing (strange). The Torrington part number interchanges to the SKF number (R1563-TAV) which interchanges to the Timken number (5707). I'm still wondering about the seal's interchange, but whatever. I should have something that works now.

This is for a 97 Grand Cherokee with the D44A(dana 44HD) rear end. SKF bearing BR-10(also A-10). Axle bearing...who knew. Tony....give it a shot and order one. This may be what we have been looking for.

[black86glhs]

Also found that the 7.5" S-10 rear(82-?) uses the same bearings.
Bearings (axle): JM14070 (?); Torrington DB67309; NAPA R1563-TAV

[Tony Hanna]

Also found this info.

What I pulled out of the axle:

Bearing: Torrington DB-67309
Seal: National 46485 on the rim, S-11720 inside

What I picked up from Napa:
-Bearing $22
napa part number R1563-TAV
"SKF" on the box
Torrington DB-67309 inside
-Seal $9
napa part number 14119
"SKF" on the box
NAK TBGJYW6 inside


So it looks like the D35 and D44A (c-clip) use the same bearing (strange). The Torrington part number interchanges to the SKF number (R1563-TAV) which interchanges to the Timken number (5707). I'm still wondering about the seal's interchange, but whatever. I should have something that works now.

This is for a 97 Grand Cherokee with the D44A(dana 44HD) rear end. SKF bearing BR-10(also A-10). Axle bearing...who knew. Tony....give it a shot and order one. This may be what we have been looking for.

I can pick one up and check it out, but I won't be able to use it unless I find a replacement shaft.:(

If the OD is the same between the two bearings, then the 523/568 bearing has to have smaller rollers to allow for the increase in the OD of the shaft from the addition of the collar.

While it won't work for me, it would probably be perfect for someone putting new bearings in a trans with an undamaged shaft.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

Also found that the 7.5" S-10 rear(82-?) uses the same bearings.
Bearings (axle): JM14070 (?); Torrington DB67309; NAPA R1563-TAV

Looks like that crosses to BCA #5707 which is an in-stock item for Advance stores.:thumb:

[tryingbe]

Looks familiar. Any idea what caused it?

No idea. Used transmission that always made the noise... and then, 10000miles later, lots more noise and won't shift to first anymore.



Ok, now I'm curious. What's the difference between the '87-'88 and the '89 555? Is it just the shaft or is the bearing different as well? If the bearing is the same, would it be possible for you to measure the outside diameter and thickness of the bearing with a micrometer or a set of calipers?

Thanks,
Tony

Cliff Ramsdell's sell a bearing kit for A520, A525, and A555 all in one box, I can only guess the bearings are the same.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=80

[Tony Hanna]

No idea. Used transmission that always made the noise... and then, 10000miles later, lots more noise and won't shift to first anymore.

I think this one was the result of a previous diff bearing failure. There's a chip out of the end of one of the teeth on the transfer gear from a piece of diff bearing going through it. My guess is the shock load from that damaged the intermediate shaft bearing and it just took a little while to completely fail. I have no way to prove that of course, but it seems to me like as reasonable an explanation as any.:)

[black86glhs]

No idea. Used transmission that always made the noise... and then, 10000miles later, lots more noise and won't shift to first anymore.




Cliff Ramsdell's sell a bearing kit for A520, A525, and A555 all in one box, I can only guess the bearings are the same.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=80Not taking anything away from Cliff. However, I do know the 525 and 555 use a SET4 and SET5 bearing for the input shaft. It looks like the intermediate shaft case bearing is actually easily available(as soon as Tony goes and gets one to verify). If it works, many of the cases that were tossed to the side would be easliy repaired. I like Tony's idea of turning the shaft and installing the collar. Kind of like a seal saver, only thicker and a harder material.:nod:

[Tony Hanna]

Not taking anything away from Cliff. However, I do know the 525 and 555 use a SET4 and SET5 bearing for the input shaft. It looks like the intermediate shaft case bearing is actually easily available(as soon as Tony goes and gets one to verify). If it works, many of the cases that were tossed to the side would be easliy repaired. I like Tony's idea of turning the shaft and installing the collar. Kind of like a seal saver, only thicker and a harder material.:nod:

Well, I got an e-mail back from Cliff. The OD on the 523/568 bearing is bigger than the 555 bearing and won't fit the 555 case.:( I'll pick up the BCA 5707 bearing (probably tonight) and try to decide what to do about the shaft. Cliff has offered to sell me a good used one. I'll probably go that route depending on price. Might try machining the old one and making a collar for it to keep as a spare later.

[black86glhs]

Good god man!!!!! You haven't got one already!!!!!
Just kidding. I am curious if this really is the same bearing. I know it looks like it(obvious), but it seems odd it was that easy to cross reference. Everyone else has the deer in the headlights look when you ask them about it.
I got it, the few who knew didn't want to let anyone know so they could make all the $$$$ on selling the parts. <----Just a guess....lol.

[Tony Hanna]

Good god man!!!!! You haven't got one already!!!!!
Just kidding. I am curious if this really is the same bearing. I know it looks like it(obvious), but it seems odd it was that easy to cross reference. Everyone else has the deer in the headlights look when you ask them about it.
I got it, the few who knew didn't want to let anyone know so they could make all the $$$$ on selling the parts. <----Just a guess....lol.

:lol:

The problem is, everything is up at John's. I'm real curious to see if it's the right bearing as well, but without having a good shaft and the case here, all I could do is measure it and post pictures and specs that are already listed on the internet.:) Come to think of it, I couldn't even do that. I left my digital calipers up at John's.:banghead:

BORE= 1.4016 in.; OD.= 2.2520 in.; WIDTH= .6980 in.
http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/skf/r1563tav.jpg

[black86glhs]

I'm gonna go up and get one and see if the 525 bearing is the same. I think it is, but if not, I will use it in the 555 I have.:thumb:
Just found out you can look up GM 8.5" rear for the B-body cars(Caprice). I looked up 1991-1996 because I have one. Same bearing as the 7.5" rear.

[Tony Hanna]

I'm gonna go up and get one and see if the 525 bearing is the same. I think it is, but if not, I will use it in the 555 I have.:thumb:
Just found out you can look up GM 8.5" rear for the B-body cars(Caprice). I looked up 1991-1996 because I have one. Same bearing as the 7.5" rear.

It's not really surprising to me that a bearing in our trans would cross to a bearing used in another application. What gets me is that both GM and Ford medium duty axles take the same bearing. Now that's just creepy.:D

[86Shelby]

It's not really surprising to me that a bearing in our trans would cross to a bearing used in another application. What gets me is that both GM and Ford medium duty axles take the same bearing. Now that's just creepy.:D

More than likely the suppliers got in touch and said 'hey, if you change things just a little bit we have a bearing already in production you can use and it's cheaper...'

[Tony Hanna]

^That makes sense.

[Tony Hanna]

Got an e-mail back from Cliff about the bearing and the 5707 will work. Also, John measured the shaft and it's .004" bigger than it should be. I think this proves the theory about metal from the disintegrating bearing being friction welded to the shaft. So, the plan now is for John to see if the machinist where he works can clean the shaft up without having to remove too much material. If not then I'll be buying a replacement shaft from Cliff. Unfortunately, if I end up having to buy the replacement I'm going to have to put the project on hold for awhile. At this point I can't spare the extra cash to buy both the shaft and the rest of the bearings I'm going to need.:(

[black86glhs]

Cool. I'm gonna get 2 and try the one in my 525. The old bearing looked good, but if it fits the 525, I'll repalce it.

[Tony Hanna]

Cool. I'm gonna get 2 and try the one in my 525. The old bearing looked good, but if it fits the 525, I'll repalce it.

Sounds like a winner.:) If I can get the shaft cleaned up without removing much more than .004", it looks like I'm going to be back in action too. I wonder what the maximum tolerance is on an inner race? If it ends up needing more than .004 removed, I wonder how much extra I can get by with before I run into trouble?

[MiniMopar]

Sorry I got into this thread late. I've been down this road with the mainshaft bearings. The A525/A520/A555 main shafts all use the same bearings on both ends. In 1989, they changed the main shaft to accommodate the new 1-2 synchro setup but the bearing did NOT change. Then in 1990 when the A523/A543/A568 came out, they changed the trans case and made the cup for the mainshaft bearing larger. This allowed them to press an inner race onto the end of the shaft and go to a larger bearing. The shaft did not change at all when they went to the new bearing...at least not is size. I don't know if perhaps they didn't harden the shaft as much since they no longer had a bearing rolling right on it.

An obvious sign of the new cup size is the fact that the throw-out bearing and fork changed that same year. The new fork/bearing are narrower at the top to clear the larger bearing cup inside the bell housing.

So the bottom line is that the mainshaft bearing in question only changed once between the A525 and 1994. I can't speak for the earlier 4-speed trannies.

[BadAssPerformance]

So the '89 A555 mainshaft fits all A523/568 thru '94 just needs the bearing race pressed on?

[MiniMopar]

As far as I can tell, yes. Side-by-side they look the same to me.

[black86glhs]

Thanks Russ. They looked very close just eyeballing it, but better to know.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

Yes, Thanks Russ!

Back on the repair collar idea for the 555 shaft for a moment, I need a suggestion on material. It would need to be soft enough to be machinable, but hard enough to serve as an inner race without wearing out prematurely. I'd been looking at case hardened drill bushings on Mcmaster Carr's site, but there's nothing that's exactly the right OD, and they want $45 for a 1" long bushing that could be machined to work...

Talking to John, about the only thing he's going to be able to get is cold rolled.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Tony

[BadAssPerformance]

tool steel machine and then heat treat it

[86Shelby]

After working on making some replacement pins for my TIII rocker arms I was able to find out that to be suitable for a bearing surface it would need a rockwell hardness of at least 60. IIRC that's on the harder scale; I seem to remember there being 2 scales. Stainless steel is way too soft period.

[Tony Hanna]

tool steel machine and then heat treat it

I wonder where I could find a tool steel bushing relatively close to the right size? I've got some wiggle room with the ID because the shaft would have to be turned down anyway, but the OD has to be 1.4" or larger.

[Tony Hanna]

After working on making some replacement pins for my TIII rocker arms I was able to find out that to be suitable for a bearing surface it would need a rockwell hardness of at least 60. IIRC that's on the harder scale; I seem to remember there being 2 scales. Stainless steel is way too soft period.

I really wish I'd paid more attention in my metallurgy class now.:nod:

I think I have an idea though. The fact that these bearings are used as wheel bearings on some RWD stuff has me thinking why not just start with a piece of an axle? If I use the section that the bearing rides on, then the OD is already going to be perfect. All I'd need to do is figure out a way to bore it to the correct ID. Sound reasonable?

[BadAssPerformance]

I meant machine one out of tool steel... if you have carbice cutters on the lathe it machines well.

[Tony Hanna]

I meant machine one out of tool steel... if you have carbice cutters on the lathe it machines well.

I understand. I was just trying to think of ways to keep the machine work to a minimum since it would be a side project at John's work. Something that could be cranked out during a break is no big deal, but something that's going to take a lot of time could be trouble.

Hopefully I'm not even going to have to fool with it but it would be neat to find a good solution to repair a damaged shaft. I would imagine there are a few laying around that could be put back in service if there was a simple way to repair them. Ideally one of our vendors could stock a few collars and then someone with a damaged shaft could take the shaft and a collar to a machine shop to get the shaft turned and the collar pressed on:thumb:.

[black86glhs]

I really wish I'd paid more attention in my metallurgy class now.:nod:

I think I have an idea though. The fact that these bearings are used as wheel bearings on some RWD stuff has me thinking why not just start with a piece of an axle? If I use the section that the bearing rides on, then the OD is already going to be perfect. All I'd need to do is figure out a way to bore it to the correct ID. Sound reasonable?Hey, we really do think alike......oooooh, scary!!!
I was thinking cut the section out of a JY axle and have the center bored out on a lathe. Could even be drilled on a drill press with a really large bit. Drill slow and plenty of coolant(thread cutting oil works). The collar should be 1/8" thick. Have the shaft turned down to the exact size of the collar. Cool the shaft and heat the collar, then press it on.
What about something made of chromemoly steel for the collar?

[Tony Hanna]

Hey, we really do think alike......oooooh, scary!!!
I was thinking cut the section out of a JY axle and have the center bored out on a lathe. Could even be drilled on a drill press with a really large bit. Drill slow and plenty of coolant(thread cutting oil works). The collar should be 1/8" thick. Have the shaft turned down to the exact size of the collar. Cool the shaft and heat the collar, then press it on.
What about something made of chromemoly steel for the collar?

As far as availability goes, the axle idea should be perfect right? I'm guessing boring the center on a lathe would make for less risk of getting it off center? I honestly don't know a thing about doing machine work, but John knows his way around the subject pretty well. I'll run the idea by him when I talk to him later and see what he thinks.:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

I understand. I was just trying to think of ways to keep the machine work to a minimum since it would be a side project at John's work. Something that could be cranked out during a break is no big deal, but something that's going to take a lot of time could be trouble.

Hopefully I'm not even going to have to fool with it but it would be neat to find a good solution to repair a damaged shaft. I would imagine there are a few laying around that could be put back in service if there was a simple way to repair them. Ideally one of our vendors could stock a few collars and then someone with a damaged shaft could take the shaft and a collar to a machine shop to get the shaft turned and the collar pressed on:thumb:.

Gotcha...

+1 to finding a solution.. I think i might have 3 of those in my scrap bin if they havnt left yet :(

[MiniMopar]

I remember hearing at least two stories of people trying to put a collar on these shafts with the goal of using the stock bearing. In one case (this is the SDML days) the end of the shaft sheared off. He suspected that by removing so much material, all the hardened steel was machined off leaving a stress point where the exposed metal met the hardened steel at the base of the gear. In the other case (TD days?), they had found a bearing race with a close ID, machined the shaft down and then machined the OD down to be correct for the bearing. The race failed because it was left too thin.

I have tried to find a complete, new bearing with both races with the same OD and slightly smaller ID as the stock bearing. That way only a little material has to be removed from the shaft. The bearing would have to have smaller rollers, obviously, but I think that is better than the alternative. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find an online bearing catalog where you can do a search by parameter like that.

[Tony Hanna]

I remember hearing at least two stories of people trying to put a collar on these shafts with the goal of using the stock bearing. In one case (this is the SDML days) the end of the shaft sheared off. He suspected that by removing so much material, all the hardened steel was machined off leaving a stress point where the exposed metal met the hardened steel at the base of the gear. In the other case (TD days?), they had found a bearing race with a close ID, machined the shaft down and then machined the OD down to be correct for the bearing. The race failed because it was left too thin.

I have tried to find a complete, new bearing with both races with the same OD and slightly smaller ID as the stock bearing. That way only a little material has to be removed from the shaft. The bearing would have to have smaller rollers, obviously, but I think that is better than the alternative. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find an online bearing catalog where you can do a search by parameter like that.

If snapping the shaft or having the collar fail from being too thin is the likely result, that's not real encouraging for the collar idea.:( I wonder about weld? Maybe build the shaft up using a welding rod or wire of the proper hardness, machine it, and then heat treat...

I'd considered the smaller roller idea. Actually, I was hoping that was the case with the 523/568 bearing, but it turned out not to be. The only downside I can see with that idea is that smaller size is going to increase the speed of the rollers right? I wonder what kind of effect that would have on the life expectancy of the bearing?

[black86glhs]

Tony, I mentioned earlier about having the shaft repaired. It would be expensive. We did this at the plastics plant on the pelletizers all the time.

[MiniMopar]

If snapping the shaft or having the collar fail from being too thin is the likely result, that's not real encouraging for the collar idea.:( I wonder about weld? Maybe build the shaft up using a welding rod or wire of the proper hardness, machine it, and then heat treat...

That's been done as well with some success, as I understand it. The person in question can speak up if they want. Many cam grinders have machines that rebuild-up cams in this way (spatter-weld?) and I think the same or similar technique would work. In fact, I believe the hardness of the resulting weld is good enough for a cam without getting it treated again. Might be different for a roller bearing surface, though.


I'd considered the smaller roller idea. Actually, I was hoping that was the case with the 523/568 bearing, but it turned out not to be. The only downside I can see with that idea is that smaller size is going to increase the speed of the rollers right? I wonder what kind of effect that would have on the life expectancy of the bearing?

Right...there are lifespan considerations that are effected by the shaft RPM. Shouldn't be too difficult to calculate the expected mileage from a candidate bearing based on its rated life expectancy. Of course, that is all dependent on loading and so forth. That's why I wish I could find some kind of bearing search engine.

[Tony Hanna]

Tony, I mentioned earlier about having the shaft repaired. It would be expensive. We did this at the plastics plant on the pelletizers all the time. Sorry, I should probably reread the thread. We've covered a lot of ground.:)


That's been done as well with some success, as I understand it. The person in question can speak up if they want. Many cam grinders have machines that rebuild-up cams in this way (spatter-weld?) and I think the same or similar technique would work. In fact, I believe the hardness of the resulting weld is good enough for a cam without getting it treated again. Might be different for a roller bearing surface, though.

I dunno. If it were a cam used with roller valvetrain, it seems to me like the conditions would be pretty similar. I guess the load would be different though.




Right...there are lifespan considerations that are effected by the shaft RPM. Shouldn't be too difficult to calculate the expected mileage from a candidate bearing based on its rated life expectancy. Of course, that is all dependent on loading and so forth. That's why I wish I could find some kind of bearing search engine.

Do you have any kind of bearing distributer nearby? I thought the bearing place in Parkersburg closed, but John says it's still open under a different name. I bet a place like that could look up a bearing based on OD, ID, and thickness that would work for what you have in mind.:) Next time I'm up there during the week, I'll have to run by the place and see what they can come up with. Any suggestions on how much could be removed from the shaft without weakening it so I'll know what range to look in for the ID of the inner race? I'm thinking the original OD on the shaft is 1.400.

[lametec]

How about enlarging the "cup" in the case to allow for a larger OD bearing? That's assuming this is even feasible. I don't know what it looks like in there. :)

[MiniMopar]

There is not enough meat to fit the stock late bearing into an early case, but maybe enough to fit some other bearing in there.

[Tony Hanna]

Well, I'm at a standstill. The dayshift machinist where John works keeps the live centers for the lathe locked up at night. The night shift guy volunteered to take it home and turn it on his personal lathe, but says it's small enough that the gears will need to be off the shaft. I'm not sure about getting the sealed bearing off without damaging it and I'm not sure if I can cross reference a replacement.

[MiniMopar]

I would not machine it with the gear set on there. If you don't have the right kind of puller for the front bearing, I have been able to walk it off the end of the shaft by prying with two large screw drivers. Just make sure to pry up and not down or you will damage the seal on the bearing.

However, if you are going to go through all this effort, I would just replace the other bearing anyway. Granted, it's a sealed ball bearing and I have never heard of one failing, but it is a common type and not that expensive.

[black86glhs]

I would not machine it with the gear set on there. If you don't have the right kind of puller for the front bearing, I have been able to walk it off the end of the shaft by prying with two large screw drivers. Just make sure to pry up and not down or you will damage the seal on the bearing.

However, if you are going to go through all this effort, I would just replace the other bearing anyway. Granted, it's a sealed ball bearing and I have never heard of one failing, but it is a common type and not that expensive.+1.....that is how I removed the same bearing on the 525. It is easier than it looks Tony. The rest of the shaft is just a bunch of snap rings and gears or synchros. Piece of cake.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

I would not machine it with the gear set on there. If you don't have the right kind of puller for the front bearing, I have been able to walk it off the end of the shaft by prying with two large screw drivers. Just make sure to pry up and not down or you will damage the seal on the bearing.

However, if you are going to go through all this effort, I would just replace the other bearing anyway. Granted, it's a sealed ball bearing and I have never heard of one failing, but it is a common type and not that expensive.

Do you have a part number for that bearing? By common type, do you mean something I could get at a parts store or would it have to be ordered from a dealer?


+1.....that is how I removed the same bearing on the 525. It is easier than it looks Tony. The rest of the shaft is just a bunch of snap rings and gears or synchros. Piece of cake.:thumb: That's cool. I'll mention that to John the next time I talk to him.


Thanks guys!

Tony

[sdac guy]

4377723 is the bearing part number (for A555 1987-89).

There is a different part number for the 1989 intermediate shaft than for the 87-88, but other than that I don't know the difference. But the bearing part number is the same for 1987-1989 (from the factory parts manuals).

In 1990, the shaft and bearing carry a different number as do the cases. There is an inner race listed for the roller bearing (except for A525), and it has an O.D. listed as 43.70 (mm I suppose?). There is no reference to the O.D. of the roller bearing on any year so it is unknown whether the 1990 roller bearing will fit in an earlier year case. If it does then the 1990 A568 bearing and inner race would be the ticket.

So for 1990 all 520-568 use bearing number 4531531 and inner race number 4531529. BTW, the oil feeder on the end for 1990 is number 4531528.

Hope this helps.

Barry

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks Barry!

Is that part # (4377723) for the sealed bearing at the back (driver side) of the trans or the bearing at the bellhousing side? I think I've got the bellhousing side sorted out, but John is having a hard time getting the sealed bearing off the shaft and he wanted to make sure I can get a replacement in case he damages it.

Thanks again,

Tony

[MiniMopar]

Hmmm...I just checked and I guess it is not that common...I guess due to the slot in the outer race for the big snap ring. I got mine from http://www.drivetrain.com/newprocess5spfwd.html

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks Russ!

I'm assuming it's the one they're calling the rear pinion bearing (#301531)?

[MiniMopar]

That sounds right.

[fleckster]

So just to summarize all of this info and to make it a sticky or add it to the Knowledge Center:

For the five speed manual transaxles:

Differential:
Bearings (2) - Timken Set #11
Seals (2) - Timken #3459S

Input Shaft:
Bearing (Front) - Timken Set #4
Bearing (Rear) - Timken Set #5
Seal - Timken #3732S

Intermediate Shaft:

A-525/A-520/A-555
Bearing (Front) - RNU070618-6 (Mopar Part #4377723) ; Timken #5707
Bearing (Rear) - Timken #207S

A-523/A-543/A-568
Bearing (Front) - 07NU0720/23B (Mopar Parts #4641225 (was #4531531) - Bearing; #4531529 - Inner Race; #4531528 - Oil Feeder)
Bearing (Rear) Timken #207S



Please check this over and let me know if this is correct or if there is anything that needs to be added. Once the info is judged to be accurate, I'll make it a sticky and/or have it added to the Knowledge Center.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[fleckster]

I edited the previous post as I did some research and discovered that the part number for the A-568 Intermediate Shaft Front Bearing has been superseded. I added that above.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1 great info for the KC!

[Reeves]

Got an e-mail back from Cliff about the bearing and the 5707 will work. Also, John measured the shaft and it's .004" bigger than it should be. I think this proves the theory about metal from the disintegrating bearing being friction welded to the shaft. So, the plan now is for John to see if the machinist where he works can clean the shaft up without having to remove too much material. If not then I'll be buying a replacement shaft from Cliff. Unfortunately, if I end up having to buy the replacement I'm going to have to put the project on hold for awhile. At this point I can't spare the extra cash to buy both the shaft and the rest of the bearings I'm going to need.:(

You say it's .004" bigger than it should be. What should it be stock? I know the bearing I.D. is 1.4016" but I'd like to know what the shaft was stock? I'm thinking of having mine splatter welded and turned to 1.4016 or maybe even a hair bigger to make a nice tight fit in the bearing. Right now I have about .002" clearance (guessing).

[Tony Hanna]

I honestly can't remember. I was told that the 568 shaft without the pressed on collar was the same od as a 555. We measured the shaft out of the 568 from my old R/T for a baseline, but I can't remember now what the measurement was. If somebody doesn't post the measurement before I'm back up at John's, I'll measure it again.


Oh, and Fleckster, you might want to edit your post again about the 207s lacking the snap ring groove. The right bearing is likely going to be a 207L, or 207LO. Neither is sealed, but they both have the snap ring groove.

[fleckster]

I have all the info put together as I ordered them new from the dealer. ($$$) The Outer Intermediate Bearing was actually an NSK bearing with a seal and snap ring. It's all in a spreadsheet including part numbers etc. I am going to add it to the Knowledge Center but I wanted to clean it up and even possibly add what part number were still available. I'll try and get it done as soon as I can.

[black86glhs]

I came up with a bearing 6207NX. It was an NSK. Haven't found any yet.

[fleckster]

Number on my Chrysler-bought bearing was S207NX.

I took it to a local bearing shop and they found out there were "three on their way to California but aren't there yet." Not sure what that means but he could get them for about the same price as the dealership (~$35) I was not so lucky with the front intermediate bearing for the A-568. According to the bearing shop when they contacted Koyo, they have only sent one to the US for a quote/prototyping. The only customer for the bearing is an OEM Car Maker (aka Chrysler). I guess for now it will remain a dealer only item. (bearing and race) Someone could probably machine and grind some new races easy enough. Maybe a custom Race to allow a different bearing?

[rx2mazda]

Great info in this thread, thanks guys for all the RR!

[fleckster]

I also finished my article with all the research I did in the Knowledge Center so please check it out too!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=134

[135sohc]

I also finished my article with all the research I did in the Knowledge Center so please check it out too!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=134

:hail: :clap:

So much easier than digging through all the parts catalogs. :nod:

[fleckster]

Just like the scrubbing bubbles, "We work hard so you don't have tooooooooooo!"

It just took some time looking through all the parts manual PDFs I have.

[135sohc]

It just took some time looking through all the parts manual PDFs I have.

Precisly why I again :hail: to you for doing that.

I've got 82-96 catalogs on my computer, there great to have but a complete pita when your trying to look at the exploded image (especially the gearsets inside the trannys) and follow the maze of lines and which number goes to which part. and then drag over to the right, zoom in and scroll up & down the listings trying to find stuff.

[fleckster]

I managed to get the part manuals from '82 through '08 with a couple '09 models downloaded. They are invaluable in my opinion!

Wait until you see the article I'm working on for an update on the wheels for all our cars! My plans are to make it like the one Demspey did a long time ago but updated with EVERY wheel up through the Neons and Cloud Cars hopefully with pictures and part numbers with the accessories (center caps, trim rings, etc.) I'v already got a good start on it and I'm up through '88 or so.

[135sohc]

So just to summarize all of this info and to make it a sticky or add it to the Knowledge Center:

For the five speed manual transaxles:

Differential:
Bearings (2) - Timken Set #11
Seals (2) - Timken #3459S

Input Shaft:
Bearing (Front) - Timken Set #4
Bearing (Rear) - Timken Set #5
Seal - Timken #3732S

Intermediate Shaft:

A-525/A-520/A-555
Bearing (Front) - RNU070618-6 (Mopar Part #4377723) ; Timken #5707
Bearing (Rear) - Timken #207S

A-523/A-543/A-568
Bearing (Front) - 07NU0720/23B (Mopar Parts #4641225 (was #4531531) - Bearing; #4531529 - Inner Race; #4531528 - Oil Feeder)
Bearing (Rear) Timken #207S



Please check this over and let me know if this is correct or if there is anything that needs to be added. Once the info is judged to be accurate, I'll make it a sticky and/or have it added to the Knowledge Center.

Thanks for everyone's help!


This needs to be corrected before anyone else gets screwed like I just did. The 207 is not the correct part for the intermediate shaft rear bearing in any manner. The ID is 1.378" or 35mm instead of 1.181 or 30mm like it needs to be.

[black86glhs]

Which trans? The 555 or 568? I used a 207 in my 555 and it was just fine. 1989 trans, BTW.

[135sohc]

For the 523/568/543.

[135sohc]

2815528154

[black86glhs]

For the 523/568/543.That makes more sense.:nod:
Did you find out which one does fit?

[135sohc]

That makes more sense.:nod:
Did you find out which one does fit?

But the sealed rear bearing is the same for everything :confused2:

Whether its a national 207, timken 207 or SKF 6207 they all list the wrong ID. :confused:

Either the aftermarket x-over is totally wrong or everyone who's ordered a '207' bearing and is using it sucessfully is getting something else instead ? I have one on its way from Mopar now and I called transtar to inquire about the bk377ws kit. $391+ shipping and the dude says thats his wholesale price that he would extend to me.

[mrbee64]

I just bought one for my A555 from the dealer 1-04348270 (29.95mm in) & (71.92 out) part number on black seal is TM207 I think it was $47

[black86glhs]

But the sealed rear bearing is the same for everything :confused2:

Whether its a national 207, timken 207 or SKF 6207 they all list the wrong ID. :confused:

Either the aftermarket x-over is totally wrong or everyone who's ordered a '207' bearing and is using it sucessfully is getting something else instead ? I have one on its way from Mopar now and I called transtar to inquire about the bk377ws kit. $391+ shipping and the dude says thats his wholesale price that he would extend to me.The reason I said that was because you stated the 207 wasn't the right one. I knew it was right for the A555, but I have never rebuild an A568, so it might have been different for all I know.

[135sohc]

Napa's new search and cross over engine is awesome...
Mopar 4348270 = BRG 6307VSP30
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/MultiImagePopup.aspx?R=BRG6307VSP30_0297800023

[Reaper1]

Any update on repairing the intermediate shafts of A520/A555's that have been messed up due to the bearing giving out? I know some say that welding and turning works, and then I could ahve sworn Simon said that he's had great success having a hardened sleave pressed on to a turned down shaft?

Whichever way works the best for heavy and hi-torque cars is the one I'm interested in. Thanks! :thumb:

[135sohc]

Sleeve/race repair it and dont look back. Chrysler figured out 22+ years ago the original design of riding the bearing directly on the shaft end was a big design oops. How often do you hear about this being a problem with the 90+ transmissions ? When I cut and chiseled off the original 260,000 mile race from my 523 pinion last week I kinda thought it was a waste since it really didnt look very worn.

[turbovanman²]

Any update on repairing the intermediate shafts of A520/A555's that have been messed up due to the bearing giving out? I know some say that welding and turning works, and then I could ahve sworn Simon said that he's had great success having a hardened sleave pressed on to a turned down shaft?

Whichever way works the best for heavy and hi-torque cars is the one I'm interested in. Thanks! :thumb:

Yeah, I get it sleeved, ala the 568. I am actually getting 3 shafts done for a member right now. :thumb:

Welding is expensive and doesn't work unless its re hardened, then it drives the cost way up. I haven't had it happen to me but I've heard a few that were welded wore down again in no time.

[Reaper1]

OK. Well, if these bearings that I need are this common, I may be able to put my good transmission back in my car sooner than I thought! YAY! :thumb: One thing at a time...gotta go get my engine first!

[Reeves]

I also finished my article with all the research I did in the Knowledge Center so please check it out too!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=134


This DEFINITELY needs brought back. I have more info to add from a 465 and a 525 I tore down. Plus it was VERY convienent.

Also, I'm almost 100% sure that the 525/520 and the 555 DON'T share the same intermediate shaft front bearing. Yes, the 525/520 bearing will work, but NO it's not the exact same. The 555 bearing is wider and has 1 less, or 1 more roller.....can't remember which right now.




Wait until you see.....

My girlfriend. You'll sh!t yourself!

[135sohc]

The 87-89 catalog calls out one bearing for the 525 (4202590) and another for the 520/555 (4377723).

4202590 crosses over to napa BRG R1563TAV which looks nothing like the others :confused:

[Reeves]

The 87-89 catalog calls out one bearing for the 525 (4202590) and another for the 520/555 (4377723).

Yes, yes, I made a mistake above I think. I should have said the 525 has a different bearing than the 520/555. I think. I know that the 5707 replacement bearing for a 525 is just like the bearing in the 525, 465, etc....but is NOT the exact same as the bearing in a 555. Although it's the same i.d. and o.d. and can be used, I don't think it has the same load carrying ability.

[135sohc]

I always thought it was the 555 using its own unique bearing (wider, less rollers) and the 525/520 used the narrower 5707 which mopar decided was 'good enough' and so they superceeded the 4377723 with the 4202590 or aftermarket 5707.


Heres what napa offers as a '5707'.

29980

[black86glhs]

That would work if it was installed with some shims behind it so it was right up against the int shaft.

[onerippinturbo2]

I just bought one for my A555 from the dealer 1-04348270 (29.95mm in) & (71.92 out) part number on black seal is TM207 I think it was $47

i just ordered 2 of 4348270 from the dealer, they are still available from national warhouse, lists for 47.00 and only 46 of them left in exsistance, once they sell out of these the are gone. thoguth i would post this knowledge up so whoever needs them, can get to getting them.

[135sohc]

4348270 crosses over to napa BRG 6307VSP30. Havnt verified myself if its a direct identical replacement but the picture does look promising.

31042

[black86glhs]

I have an email in to a wholesale place about that bearing. Hopefully monday I will know something.

[135sohc]

The two I got in those kits from ebay were both nsk (identical to the mopar part) and came in a nsk box. whether nsk only made them for chrysler or chrysler/new process used a (less) common but still OTS bearing for these I dont know.

[onerippinturbo2]

yes that picture does look promising, but i thought i would post up the findings on the o.e bearing, i had the part# in front of me the other day as i was putting together my 555 and thought, well lets see if we can get any more of these from the dealer, as luck turned out they had 48 at national, i ordered 2 of them to cover the 2 555's i have in my stable. i checked on the other bearings, some are nla same are still available, i forget what ones were/werent. i'll know more late next week as they said 5 days for delivery. i also ordered up some fork pads, dont know what ones they were(probably black and white ones) they didnt know and i went down a list of #'s i got from the exploded view parts book so will see about them as well.

[135sohc]

The only ones still available were the black ones. Everything else for all the other transmissions is gone (atleast the locals say that).

[onerippinturbo2]

i gave 2 part numbers for fork pads,well actually 3 numbers. my parts guy ran them and said the first number is dead, no more around, the other 2 numbers he said there were hundreds left in the system, so i ordered 6 of each,considering they are pretty cheap and wouldnt hurt having around. i'll post up the results of what i get as he couldnt tell me what color they were.

[135sohc]

interesting, the dealer said there were just over 100 of the black ones (555/520) and like a handful of the 3-4 gold colored 'H' ones for the 523/568 left at the national depot which I bought all of them supposedly. maybe he was referring to dealer stock ? IDK. either way I got enough to carry me well into the future :)

[black86glhs]

Craig, Order me enough of the 555 pads to rebuild 2 transmissions will ya? The guys around here are tools and whine if you have them look for stuff. they always claim they can't find them.

[135sohc]

4 per unit ? The grey ones arnt available anywhere, anymore except whatever you find in a rebuild kit.

[onerippinturbo2]

yea, i got a bunch of the black ones and the natural ones. i'll have to wait and see what else comes in from the recent order i made. most likely gonna be the same black and natural ones but i live in hope!! i also have the gold "h" ones too, craig you gave me the part # not that long ago, i also scored a 568 race and bearing,thou i dont currently own one of those trannys, i figured it would be smart to get ti while i can,rather then need one and not have it or be able to get it.

[135sohc]

rather then need one and not have it or be able to get it.


You know it. I have not gone to an official bearing supplier with the koyo #'s but from every other direction and lead followed on they were only used in these 5 speeds and only made for chrysler and once gone from inventory they will be gone forever.

I tried to order what I believe were the natural colored pads two weeks ago and they said the # was NLA, atleast at the national level. But then again I think 'availability' depends upon who anwsers the phone down there... I piss them off enough when I bring in an internet price for a part and obligate them to match it :)

[onerippinturbo2]

if you need some natural ones, i 'm pretty sure a have a few of them in the bin. i know i got enough black ones for at least 5 trannys, pretty sure i got natural/white ones too, just gotta check to be sure. like i said, if yo uneed some, let me know, i'll check on the tomorrow and post up what i got: color and quantity.

[86Shelby]

I was able to cross reference that bearing with the snap ring you posted and have gotten a few of them locally. They have not been sealed like the one you show, but otherwise the dimensions were identicle.

[135sohc]

if you need some natural ones, i 'm pretty sure a have a few of them in the bin. i know i got enough black ones for at least 5 trannys, pretty sure i got natural/white ones too, just gotta check to be sure. like i said, if yo uneed some, let me know, i'll check on the tomorrow and post up what i got: color and quantity.

Dont give away your stash secrets!! lol. I was just going to order a couple to have as a reference piece should we ever get around to getting these things reproduced. Easier to template and use a NOS part as your study guide than to start from scratch. Thats the only reason I felt like going through with getting that little snap ring quoted up to reproduce since I had 3 of them to compare and could get some good dimensions off of them.

[onerippinturbo2]

if i can help out another fellow that has the sickness in his head about these cars like i do, i am glad to help. i do have 2 nos gray ones if you need a template for getting ones made up, they came with the 1-2 shift fork i bought years ago for a rebuild that ended up not needing it replaced,so like a good lil hourder i kept it,hehehehe. let me know if you wanna get something going on the gray inserts, i'm game for getting into it.

[Reeves]

What's all the different colored shift fork pads for? I just always picked some that seem to fit the gap the best.

[135sohc]

What's all the different colored shift fork pads for? I just always picked some that seem to fit the gap the best.

I've never touched anything besides 523/568 and atleast with those the pads are very different depending upon location. The 3-4's couldnt be interchanged with the 1-2 or 5th forks.

[onerippinturbo2]

james, the different pads were used in different trannys to make up the clearance in the sliders. the 525's used natural colored ones and black ones. the early 555 used gray ones on 1-2 and black on 3-4 &5. i am not sure about the later 555 or the 520's i've never had any of them apart before to see the differences in them.

[black86glhs]

I found them (4348270) for $33.24 each. I'm going to get 5-6 of them to save on the shipping. Anybody need one?

[Reeves]

I found them (4348270) for $33.24 each. I'm going to get 5-6 of them to save on the shipping. Anybody need one?

What are you refering to?

[135sohc]

That sealed ball bearing pressed onto the end of the intermediate shaft.

[cordes]

What are you refering to?

Hopefully not the individual shift fork pads. If that's the case I'll have no problem getting them made out of bronze.

[Reeves]

That sealed ball bearing pressed onto the end of the intermediate shaft.

Oh. I've been pretty lucky with those. The (4) trans rebuild kits I have seen all have that bearing in them. Plus all the trans I have torn down that bearing has been good.

[MiniMopar]

I have yet to see that bearing fail. Mine have always been silky-smooth, though I end up replacing them anyways because they always come in the kits.

[black86glhs]

Same here. I figured for that price, it would be worth hoarding.....buying extras...lol.

[onerippinturbo2]

i just got the 2 i ordered today as well as the shift fork inserts( black ones and white ones) and the intermediate shaft bearings (case side) they look like the 525 bearing, kinda figured but i was kinda living in hope.

[black86glhs]

Did you post up the part #s for the shift fork inserts? If not would you?

[135sohc]

Originally posted by Tryingbe


87 A525/A520/A555
4295 519 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 5TH Speed, Except 4377678,4412981,
982 Trans.
2514 621 2 Use w/4377678,4412981,982 Trans.
4295 519 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 3RD & 4TH Speed, Except 4377678,
4412981,982 Trans.
2514 621 2 Use w/4377678,4412981,982 Trans.
4295 519 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 1ST & 2ND

88 - 89 A525/A520/A555
4295 519 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 5TH Speed
4295 519 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 3RD & 4TH Speed
4269 038 2 INSERT, Gearshift Fork, 1ST & 2ND

90 - 91 A523,A543,A568 5 SPEED
4471 343 2 PAD, 1st & 2nd Shift Fork
4543 715 2 PAD, 3rd & 4th Shift Fork
4471 343 2 PAD, 5th Shift Fork



I called a second local dealer and there are according them 43 of the 4295519's scattered around the country in various dealerships as of 5/23/11 at 12 noon. Dont know about the 2514621 other than to say the dealer in my county said they were NLA... maybe theirs still some stuff scattered around the country at dealerships ?

The 038, 343 and 715's are NLA from chrysler and according to both dealerships there is no inventory anywhere :(

[onerippinturbo2]

i got the numbers at work, i'll try to get on tomorrow(thurs) from there where i have all the info, i too went through the leg work of finding out what was still available, my dealer told me last week that there were hundreds of inserts left, i'll post up the #'s and quantities of availability tomorrow from work.

[black86glhs]

31163I need 555 inserts for the 2 I have.....oh yeah....and assuming you are talking about the shift fork inserts.

[135sohc]

Which colors do you need ?

[black86glhs]

black and greys.....I know you said the greys aren't available, but the black ones would be fine.

[135sohc]

I can see why the 5707 fails... comparing to a koyo its a puny little thing :eek:

[onerippinturbo2]

I can see why the 5707 fails... comparing to a koyo its a puny little thing :eek:

true that!!!!

[135sohc]

black and greys.....I know you said the greys aren't available, but the black ones would be fine.

I ordered a few for ya.

regarding the company... still havnt replied back so if by end of business this coming tuesday they havnt replied I'm going to submit for quotes elsewhere. an entire week is plenty of time to respond.

[Reaper1]

I can see why the 5707 fails... comparing to a koyo its a puny little thing :eek:

Can we see pics please?

[135sohc]

311883118731186

[black86glhs]

What are those, the 555 and 568 inner intermediate shaft bearings?

[onerippinturbo2]

yea, that is what they are. i did have a koyo 555 bearing that i just put in my sons 555 when i rebuilt it. it did look worlds apart in quality vs. the bca 5707 i put in my 555.

[black86glhs]

Wow, The 568 bearing is damn huge!!!

[black86glhs]

I ordered a few for ya.

regarding the company... still havnt replied back so if by end of business this coming tuesday they havnt replied I'm going to submit for quotes elsewhere. an entire week is plenty of time to respond.Sweet, thanks. Let me know when it all comes in.

[Reeves]

May have a lead on a replacement for the KOYO bearing INSTEAD OF the 5707 bearing. No promises yet.

[BadAssPerformance]

*crosses fingers*

[onerippinturbo2]

james, if it does come true i'm in for at least 2 of 'em.

[black86glhs]

Hell yeah, me too!!

[Reaper1]

Me too!

BTW, I didn't realize we were comparing the 568 to the 555 bearing all this time. There's no way to make the 568 bearing fit in the 555 case...not enough metal there IIRC. Am I correct?

[135sohc]

yes it will never happen. The point of the comparison was to show the construction difference between the oem sourced koyo brand and the non koyo bearing. Notice how the rollers are very open and not caged anywhere near as tighly in the 5707 and cage itself is very flimsey in comparison. Its quite easy to see how it would fail under sustained high power and rpm loads.

[135sohc]

Could it work ?

31293

[onerippinturbo2]

it may. i'll dig out the new fork i have with the new gray inserts on it and measure it up and post up the measurements maybe you found something.

[135sohc]

Its probably not gonna work but it was cheap enough to try.

[135sohc]

it may. i'll dig out the new fork i have with the new gray inserts on it and measure it up and post up the measurements maybe you found something.

Get a chance to do that yet ?

[135sohc]

i just ordered 2 of 4348270 from the dealer, they are still available from national warhouse, lists for 47.00 and only 46 of them left in exsistance, once they sell out of these the are gone. thoguth i would post this knowledge up so whoever needs them, can get to getting them.

There were 42 as of December 21st. A few months ago I called NSK directly and found out, (not that it suprised me) that the Sealed bearing used/sold by mopar was Design proprietary to chrysler and NSK will never release it for the aftermarket/public. Once it dies with mopar its gone for good.

I looked into the Napa/SKF 6307-VSP30 again as a potential replacement for the NSK/Mopar bearing. Found a picture that claims to be of that bearing
http://www.finditparts.com/products/204249/cr-slash-skf-6307-vsp30. If that picture is believeable then its just like the oem bearing being 9 roller balls with the metal cage.

For now though the mopar bearing is only $2 more so its not worth taking a $30 risk and end up getting the cheap plastic cage 8 roller ball bearing thats marked MRC 306SG5 and what seems to be commonly showing up in the service kits as its also an SKF brand of some sort.

[Reeves]

There were 42 as of December 21st. A few months ago I called NSK directly and found out, (not that it suprised me) that the Sealed bearing used/sold by mopar was Design proprietary to chrysler and NSK will never release it for the aftermarket/public. Once it dies with mopar its gone for good.

I looked into the Napa/SKF 6307-VSP30 again as a potential replacement for the NSK/Mopar bearing. Found a picture that claims to be of that bearing
http://www.finditparts.com/products/204249/cr-slash-skf-6307-vsp30. If that picture is believeable then its just like the oem bearing being 9 roller balls with the metal cage.

For now though the mopar bearing is only $2 so its not worth taking a $30 risk and end up getting the cheap plastic cage 8 roller ball bearing thats marked MRC 306SG5 and what seems to be commonly showing up in the service kits as its also an SKF brand of some sort.

The Mopar bearing is only $2?

[135sohc]

$2 more I should have said.

[135sohc]

So I went to napa and tried to order the SKF 6307vsp30. No good on their end, called warehouse and they had to call SKF directly... no answer back. So I called SKF aftermarket directly myself a few minutes ago and got the direct answer myself: Not available, no inventory sorry about your luck.

[135sohc]

Oh. I've been pretty lucky with those. The (4) trans rebuild kits I have seen all have that bearing in them. Plus all the trans I have torn down that bearing has been good.

Did they come with the oem sealed bearing or the cheap open sided bearing ?

[Reeves]

Did they come with the oem sealed bearing or the cheap open sided bearing ?

Sealed.

[135sohc]

I wonder if they were older stock on the shelf when you bought them ? From the pictures I'm seeing of the current 'bearing kits' they are all showing that cheap open bearing and the one kit I bought off ebay came with that cheap one. The other two kits both had the NSK bearing in the blue & red NSK box. I called the local branch of this place http://www.applied.com/ and ultimatly got 2 of them ordered direct from NSK for $38/each plus freight. The guy on the phone said he could probably never do that again since that pn is exclusive to chrysler and he had to pull some strings to make that order happen.

[Reeves]

I wonder if they were older stock on the shelf when you bought them ? From the pictures I'm seeing of the current 'bearing kits' they are all showing that cheap open bearing and the one kit I bought off ebay came with that cheap one. The other two kits both had the NSK bearing in the blue & red NSK box. I called the local branch of this place http://www.applied.com/ and ultimatly got 2 of them ordered direct from NSK for $38/each plus freight. The guy on the phone said he could probably never do that again since that pn is exclusive to chrysler and he had to pull some strings to make that order happen.

Yes it is the blue and red NSK boxes that they came in.

This bearing thing is really starting to annoy me......and scare me.

So far no chance of getting the original Koyo on the pinion gear end, and no chance of getting the NSK on the other end.

[135sohc]

I wonder if we could setup a group buy with one of the discounting mopar dealers and order the remaining inventory ? 20 people to buy 2 bearings each, thats a lifetime supply for most. I honestly have yet to replace that bearing in anything I've worked on as its sealed and comparing a brand new one vs one with 250,000+ miles on it.... They really dont feel or look any different.

Its just completely stupid that NSK wont release it to the aftermarket. They have plenty of them sitting in the warehouse, guy said he could get me as many as I wanted to buy and chrysler has placed it on the NS1 listing so they wont be buying anymore from them. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot :banghead:

[Reaper1]

The whole lack of parts and support for the FWD transmissions in our cars is what it making me lean more and more to a RWD conversion. I've already said I'm going to build 1 more REALLY good transmission, and if it pukes....I'm turning the engine 90* and putting in a transmission I CAN get parts for....not like I'd EVER need them...T56 FTMFW! :thumb: :thumb:

[speedfreek500]

Wow great thread so far with lots of info! i just tore my 520 apart today to install my obx and TU bearing plate, i did order new diff bearings & races with all seals. I seen that the 2 black shift fork pads are worn down baddly and will be replacing them. I am kinda confused with the 5707 bearing, it feels good on the shaft and looks mint so .... do i replace it or run it?

I got the diff bearings from dodge and a few from napa # PBR5 x2 and PBR4 x1, i must have did a double order on the diff bearings but i thought they were napa #BR11. Is the napa bearing # PBR4 any good or should i return it and get the oem?

[135sohc]

If it looks good then roll with it.

on the napa part numbers it sounds like you got 2 of the input shaft rear bearings and one of the front ones. BR4 is the front/BR5 is the rear, BR11 is the diff. Only thing with the napa bearings it looks like you got the proformer ones 'p' in the pn, (their economy line) which maybe nothing other than standard skf reboxed or if their chinese I'd take them back and get some Timkens. oe chrysler is timken.

Can I interest you in a snap ring or two (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?58989-6500980-snap-ring)? gotta take 5th gear off to change the plate. Used ones dont snap down tightly anymore. can also supply the black fork inserts for $2/each.

[speedfreek500]

I went back into the garage and to look at my trans parts again, I have 1 PBR#5 and 1 BR5 so i will return the PBR5. You are correct on the performer part, it says it on the box lol. I got the 5Th gear snap ring off pretty easy (with the propper tool) and i bet it will snap down tight, but to be on the safe side i better get one. Pm sent will be sent in the morning.

[135sohc]

Honda 91004-PPP-004 superceeded to 91004-PPP-014. Same dimensions as our sealed ball bearing. 30x72x17mm and the parts diagram picture shows a big snap ring as well... Could it work ??? Not sealed like the oem part but do we need a sealed bearing ?

Its even a KOYO!!!
http://eshop.supergt.com.hk/preview/eng/detail.php?pid=ENHADC5019

[cordes]

Honda 91004-PPP-004 superceeded to 91004-PPP-014. Same dimensions as our sealed ball bearing. 30x72x17mm and the parts diagram picture shows a big snap ring as well... Could it work ??? Not sealed like the oem part but do we need a sealed bearing ?

Its even a KOYO!!!
http://eshop.supergt.com.hk/preview/eng/detail.php?pid=ENHADC5019

I like the idea of the sealed bearing to keep the gritty stuff out, but if you have stuff that big floating that high up you likely have greater problems.

ETA: Sweet find.

[speedfreek500]

I can order one up first thing in the morning and post a pic of it, if that would help out? I can return it if its not the correct one and it wont cost me anything.

[135sohc]

It would help immensely. Mostly to see if it has the large snap ring groove on the outside perimeter and just to double check that the dimensions are the same as the current sealed nsk/koyo bearings.

[speedfreek500]

Ok i will order it in the morning and take some pics and meausre it. If there is no seal on it, i dont think it will matter too much because the bearing rides high in the case and doubt it would fail faster without it imo.

[speedfreek500]

I did find a 6207 NR http://www.tracepartsonline.net/(S(fr5bd1mfzhloax5z3hh0t2y3))/partdetails.aspx?DetailLevels=0&CFSUB=1&CF=&VwAutoRefresh=0&VwMode=3D&SelectorPath=1%7C1%7C1%7C1%7C1%7C1%7C1%7C1%7C&sid=2&Step=1&WebSite=&Lang=en&PartId=10-13122001-093545&Class=SKF&ClsID=%2FF_SKF%2F&PartTab=0&Sort=&Desc=&RowId=16&SameStep=&SendComment=0

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 AM ----------

Sorry wrong info in post above.

[135sohc]

yeah I found all of those before. The 'issue' with these bearings are that its not a standard industry size/configuration. To find one with the proper ID/OD and its 2mm thicker than the originals. To find one with the proper thickness (17mm) and the ID is 35mm :banghead:

[speedfreek500]

Ya its a tough bearing to find, i looked on our napa prolink and that bearing is nowhere in canada. I also called honda and no bearing in stock, but cost is $35.44 and i will be picking it up on january 18th when i goto the city.

[Reaper1]

Which bearing are you wanting to use this one in place of? The one that is next to the pinion? If so, I thought that was a roller bearing, not a ball bearing. On top of that, the Honda bearing seems to have a built on inner race. While this is a good thing for the shaft, it need to pretty much be a press fit so there is no play.

Its intended application is for a center support on the countershaft of the transmission it comes out of. I wonder if it can handle the load?

I also did a VERY quick Google search for the part number and found it in stock several places for less than $30 USD!

[cordes]

Which bearing are you wanting to use this one in place of? The one that is next to the pinion? If so, I thought that was a roller bearing, not a ball bearing. On top of that, the Honda bearing seems to have a built on inner race. While this is a good thing for the shaft, it need to pretty much be a press fit so there is no play.

Its intended application is for a center support on the countershaft of the transmission it comes out of. I wonder if it can handle the load?

I also did a VERY quick Google search for the part number and found it in stock several places for less than $30 USD!

It's on the other end of the shaft.

[Reaper1]

Oh...THAT bearing. I thought we were talking about the one next to the pinion this entire time. DOH!

[135sohc]

Short of redesigning the entire case to incorporate a better pinion support setup there is no real fix for that bearing.

[Reaper1]

I honestly thought that was the bearing we were hunting since the one for the 555 is specific and the general consensus is that the 5707 isn't up to the task for high power applications.

[Reeves]

Short of redesigning the entire case to incorporate a better pinion support setup there is no real fix for that bearing.


I honestly thought that was the bearing we were hunting since the one for the 555 is specific and the general consensus is that the 5707 isn't up to the task for high power applications.

Right....this is the problem.

If we could find a bearing with a O.D. that is exact or just a tad bigger, and a width that is the same as the 555, I think we would have a fix. The O.D. of the shaft can be modified (spray welded and machined or use an adapter bushing welded on)

[83rampage]

I had a Getrag out of a 01 Cavalier (F23) apart a while ago. It had a bearing similar in style to a 5707 but I would need to find out dimensions. Seems to me it was a fair bit bigger. Anybody checked out this possibility.

[135sohc]

Ordered and got the Honda ball bearing for the rear pinion shaft. Very nice piece (heavy duty Koyo made in japan) but I'm not sure its going to work... atleast not as a direct drop in and go replacement. Two things that are the issue: The snap ring groove is just ever so slightly further 'up' the side of the cage so once its all pressed together and assembled the pinion shaft sits further into the transmission. Affects how the gears mesh and theres basically less tooth-tooth contact and it will probably throw off synchronizer to fork alightment ect. I think this can be overcome with a shim added behind the snap ring between it and the the aluminum bearing bulkhead to position it out further. maybe 1-1.5mm is all thats needed. I think this would also help with the second issue described below.

Second issue is the 'depth' of the inner race/contact. On the oem chrysler bearings the outer surface and the inner surface are flush and even with eachother, on the honda bearing the 5th gear side of the inner race/surface is slightly recessed. 5th gear rides on the side the surface as a thrust surface and keeps the gear from bottoming out on the case/bearing plate. Not sure about how to get around this issue. adding a shim under the bearing before its pressed onto the shaft might help but I dont know if thats going to throw off something else or make the first issue even bigger.

pictures to come.

[83rampage]

Cool info. I was going to get that Honda bearing ordered up since I'm getting a tranny finished for my Rampage. Definitely let us know how it works out.

What are your thoughts on beefing up the other end casing of the casing to allow a bigger bearing on the other end of the intermediate shaft? I was thinking of getting a welding shop to add more material in that area to give enough meat to bore it out bigger. Then you could use an existing off the shelf bearing such as the one out of a Getrag F23 or a 568 bearing? The Getrag would also require a sleeve on the shaft.

[135sohc]

I would try to get away from using the 568 bearing. It is very $$$ and availability is going to be an issue as time progresses.

[Reeves]

I would try to get away from using the 568 bearing. It is very $$$ and availability is going to be an issue as time progresses.

Agreed, and it's had it's failures as well.

I'd try to find a very common bearing to use.

[135sohc]

Me & Jackson (lotashelbys) in one of our conversations had thought about the idea of a tapered roller bearing pressed onto the shaft and the race being pressed into the case. Not sure how the thrust loading would affect the case and the potential for cracking since the current bearing setup is just a straight roller bearing transferring the torque straight up under load.

[83rampage]

You are correct about the 568 bearing being $$$. It is also not even stocked by Mopar anymore, you have to get it through a dealer from Vintage parts.

I stopped by GM today to price and check on the Getrag bearing. It is about $80 and is still availible. One aspect of that particular bearing is it has 2 "tangs" on the race sticking out 90 degrees to the raceway surface, and these tangs are used to bolt the race in the case. That would at the least require serious modification, and may not even work given the space required between the pinion and the case, so it doesn't look good as a possible candidate.

All trannys I've had apart always use 2 tapered roller bearings on each end of the shaft, never a combination of straight rollers with tapered rollers. Must be some science behind why.

Any idea what the other bearing is used in the Honda transmission you found the other straight roller bearing for?

[135sohc]

All trannys I've had apart always use 2 tapered roller bearings on each end of the shaft, never a combination of straight rollers with tapered rollers. Must be some science behind why.

Tapered bearings need to be arranged in pairs to 'cancel' out the loading characteristics. I am not an engineer but I dont know how to explain it. Like our cars using a pair of tapered bearings to support the rear wheels. one bearing wouldnt work, you need an opposed pair to take the load.

Chrysler/new process-new venture used the bearing setup they did on the pinion shaft because it was cheaper to make a one piece transmission case and theres no setup/shims required. press the bearing into the case, press the ball bearing onto the shaft using that bearing to both support the shaft and act as the depth locator. put it together and viola its done. On the early L body cars that had the VW motor they used a VW 020 based transmission. I have a 1981 service manual and looking through the transmission section on both the VW and chrysler transmissions, its super easy to see how chrysler took the VW design, made it cheaper to mfg and nowhere nearly as involved in assembling and made the A460 out of it. VW uses needle bearings under the speed gears, uses a pair of opposed tapered roller bearings (one on either side!) to support the pinion gear ect, nothing like that has ever been used on chrysler transmissions until the T850 came around. VW has used the same basic transmission design from the late 70's through recent on their FWD cars, just improving and adding extra speed gears off the end of the case to go from 4 then 5 and now 6 forward gears and they dont seem to have the BS issues starting to show up here. Nothing like finding a good design and sticking with it...

I did find a picture of a honda transmission opended up and one of the bearings looked identical the front pinion bearing used in these transmissions but the dimensions are probably totally wrong. Have to locate the picture again and post the link.

[135sohc]

Any idea what the other bearing is used in the Honda transmission you found the other straight roller bearing for?

Heres a pn I found: 91101-PHR-003
http://parts.sonshonda.com/productSearch.aspx?&ukey_make=988&modelYear=2010&ukey_model=0&ukey_trimLevel=00&ukey_driveline=6292&ukey_Category=17210&numResults=50&sortOrder=Relevance&isOnSale=0&isAccessory=0&isPerformance=0&searchTerm=clutch housing

#9 in the diagram. dimensions are very close to the OEM 555/520 bearing... :eyebrows: 34X59X20 I assume that is mm.

check out the oil feeder thingy and the retaining strap as well...

[Reeves]

Heres a pn I found: 91101-PHR-003
http://parts.sonshonda.com/productSearch.aspx?&ukey_make=988&modelYear=2010&ukey_model=0&ukey_trimLevel=00&ukey_driveline=6292&ukey_Category=17210&numResults=50&sortOrder=Relevance&isOnSale=0&isAccessory=0&isPerformance=0&searchTerm=clutch housing

#9 in the diagram. dimensions are very close to the OEM 555/520 bearing... :eyebrows: 34X59X20 I assume that is mm.

check out the oil feeder thingy and the retaining strap as well...

Wow....good find! Are the dimensions close enough to try?

[135sohc]

The 520/555 bearing is 57.3mm OD, Honda bearing is 59mm OD. Would have to measure and see if theres enough metal in the case to hone it out or whatever to make the bearing fit without hurting anything.
Width doesnt seem to be an issue, I measured a used one I've got sitting here and its 20mm wide as well. Measuring a pinion shaft I have sitting here it comes out to 1.400 or 36mm. If having the shaft repaired it could be turned down and a hardened collar pressed on that is of the proper size ?

http://www.d-series.org/forums/transmission-alley/110713-my-z6-tranny-rebuild-lsd-install.html#post1631908 post #7 shows a picture of something. I dont know if that is the proper bearing in question here or what but that is what I found when searching under 'honda countershaft bearing'.

[Reeves]

The 520/555 bearing is 57.3mm OD, Honda bearing is 59mm OD. Would have to measure and see if theres enough metal in the case to hone it out or whatever to make the bearing fit without hurting anything.
Width doesnt seem to be an issue, I measured a used one I've got sitting here and its 20mm wide as well. Measuring a pinion shaft I have sitting here it comes out to 1.400 or 36mm. If having the shaft repaired it could be turned down and a hardened collar pressed on that is of the proper size ?

http://www.d-series.org/forums/transmission-alley/110713-my-z6-tranny-rebuild-lsd-install.html#post1631908 post #7 shows a picture of something. I dont know if that is the proper bearing in question here or what but that is what I found when searching under 'honda countershaft bearing'.

It even has 12 rollers.

[135sohc]

Yeah I saw that. Probably made by Koyo as well.

[Reeves]

Yeah I saw that. Probably made by Koyo as well.

About to find out!

[83rampage]

About to find out!

Do you have an insider at Koyo? What are the odds he could search thier data base with the dimensions we need and possibly lead us to something maybe a bit closer than the Honda bearing? If there is something, and he could at least tell us who they make it for (ie toyota, honda etc.) it may make this search a bunch easier.

If not at least this Honda bearing looks very promising. Price is right too.:) Beats the $210+shipping Vintage wants for the 568 bearing.:banghead:

[135sohc]

I sent him the link where I got the other bearing from. he ordered one

[83rampage]

I sent him the link where I got the other bearing from. he ordered one

Darn I got all excited there thinking we may find something even closer.

So Reeves is going to get the goods on this Honda bearing? Cool, can't wait to find out.

[135sohc]

koyo usa wants nothing to do with us. Contacts on their website are only for OEM/Tier suppliers, their aftermarket contact is an email address that is not answered.

Also keep in mind this bearing in question right now is for the 555/520 transmissions only. The 523/568 bearing is the same thing just slightly bigger.

[83rampage]

koyo usa wants nothing to do with us. Contacts on their website are only for OEM/Tier suppliers, their aftermarket contact is an email address that is not answered.

Also keep in mind this bearing in question right now is for the 555/520 transmissions only. The 523/568 bearing is the same thing just slightly bigger.

Yes I'm building a 555. I was toying with the idea of modifying the 555 case to use a 568 bearing (if that is even possible to add that much material to that area, only because I want a better quality bearing than the jobber axle bearing that is the only option now) but this bearing shows good potential without too much modification to the case.

As I said, I'm anxious to see how this works out. I know someone who can bore out the bearing fit in the case, and hopefully there is enough meat there to do it without any welding.

Seems to me Turbovanman has a source to get the shaft turned down and a collar pressed on so that will take care of the shaft modification.

Too bad companies like Koyo can be a bit more helpful, but "ignore it and it will go away" seems to be a common theme these days.

[black86glhs]

I have one of the roller bearings coming too. I would rather take the material from the outer part of the bearing and make it smaller to fit the stock 555/520 case. Maybe split the difference between the case and bearing.

[Reeves]

Ok, here is the Honda bearing. It has more than 12 rollers for sure.

[135sohc]

Do you think theres any hope of it working ? Still looks like a much nicer alternative to the Timken 5707.

[Reeves]

Do you think theres any hope of it working ? Still looks like a much nicer alternative to the Timken 5707.

I totally agree it is a better alternative than the 5707. It's much better built.

One thing I'd like to do is to see if the O.D. of the bearing can be turned down to fit in our unmodified case.

If that passes, then look into turning down the O.D. of our shaft to fit snug inside the bearings. Would need to see if the hardness is still there after turning down.

Another alternative would be to modify our case and/or turn down then press a sleeve on the shaft.

This bearing is made by NTN. It has the dimensions stamped right on it. I wonder if we can find a bearing that is even closer of a fit?

[135sohc]

I wonder if the shaft surface could be induction hardended like a cam lobe is ? keep the heat localized and not get into the pinion teeth and mess up something there. Or if thats going to cause other stress issues ?

I have not done anything with that other bearing but I do feel very good about it being an alternative option when the time comes. A spacer behind the big snap ring to space it out another .030 and a .040 thrust washer behind the 5th gear to space it out as well and it would be usable and reliable.

[Lotashelbys]

I know this sounds like alot of work and time and money but it might be a way to make a 555 very tough. This is what James,JT,and Craig and I have talked over. Use the Honda bearing posted and machine the case for the correct interferance fit. Then turn the shaft down and either find a hardened bearing sleeve or have one made. Then,drill and tap the shaft on the end for like an 8 or 10-32 thread and install some BHSCS at 120 degrees of each other to keep balance and for the head to hold the sleeve in place. Then I would have a hardened steel slinger made and install that before the bearing for an insurance policy just in case the button heads work loose. Or not even do that and the hardened slinger might be strong enough to keep the race from walking off and and boring itself into the case. Any thoughts about that anyone???

[Reaper1]

I'm down for trying it! I'll send my tranny as a test subject and let everyone know how it works for free parts and labor! :bounce:

[bakes]

I like you idea . does anyone have a pic of both sides of the case?

[83rampage]

Well i'm no welder or machinist, but I did talk to someone who does both. He was saying it is tough to take material off the outer bearing race to reduce it's outer diameter. He said it would need to be ground off which doesn't sound like fun.

He also said welding cast aluminum can be very difficult, especially if it has been oil soaked most of it's life. Internet info says that if it is baked before welding usually you can get most of the oil out of the pores and it will weld ok.

I need to dig out an old tranny case to see what it would take to build up that area, but it seems to be the more viable option than trying to reduce the bearing diameter, and consequently losing some of the bearing's strength. From pictures of broken tranny cases I've seen, it wouldn't hurt to have some extra material in that area anyway. I sure like how robust that Honda bearing looks.

[Reaper1]

What about welding in an aluminum spacer and then machining that down to the correct diameter? That might be easier then welding up the case to the required thickness and then machining the weld. You could also to a press fit and use something like sleeve sealant (like they use to seal sleeves in blocks for diesels) to keep it in place.

Just some ideas...

[88C/S]

Check out this link http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/new_process_5_speed_fwd_overhaul_kit.html

[135sohc]

yes... That website is very out of date to say the least.

[83rampage]

What about welding in an aluminum spacer and then machining that down to the correct diameter? That might be easier then welding up the case to the required thickness and then machining the weld. You could also to a press fit and use something like sleeve sealant (like they use to seal sleeves in blocks for diesels) to keep it in place.

Just some ideas...

What I was thinking was to just build up the area that surrounds the bearing (most, if not all is accessable on the bell housing side). Just make it thicker there so when you bore that area for the bigger diameter bearing, you are taking off factory material, but you maintain at least what the factory thickness was by adding the material to the outside. Basically all I'm thinking is gob a bunch of filler material on the outside of the "cup" that the bearing sits in.

Or you could just bore it bigger and hope the factory has enough meat there to still adequately support the bearing and not crack.

[black86glhs]

What I was thinking was to just build up the area that surrounds the bearing (most, if not all is accessable on the bell housing side). Just make it thicker there so when you bore that area for the bigger diameter bearing, you are taking off factory material, but you maintain at least what the factory thickness was by adding the material to the outside. Basically all I'm thinking is gob a bunch of filler material on the outside of the "cup" that the bearing sits in.

Or you could just bore it bigger and hope the factory has enough meat there to still adequately support the bearing and not crack.That is what I was thinking about doing. I need to take some measurements and see what looks good with my case. Thinking of having it welded anyway.

[Reaper1]

Ah, see I thought the hole has to be made smaller. It needs to be LARGER to fit the bearing that was found. Got it now! DUH!

[francois]

Fyi,

You can use a ceramic insert and machine the outside diameter on the lathe, easy task.
Also, well, yes the oil could have got into the pores of the casing but it is nothing to compare what the cast iron of a 50 years old mechanical 250t. press had to endure with oil. We had to weld the inside diameter of the flywheel.
If the welder was able to weld inside that diameter, I'm sure we can weld inside our casing. Doubt the oil would be the problem.

I guess I'll have to open my 555 tranny to see and understand were the problem lies. My tranny isn't suppose to have any bearing problem but I'm a machinist by trade and I know 2, very, good welder.
If I can help at some point.

[Reaper1]

That would be awesome!

[83rampage]

Can you explain further about this ceramic collar. Are you talking about a sleeve on the intermediate shaft itself (which would be the inner bearing race)? I'm not getting what your saying.

[francois]

Me?

I was talking about a ceramic insert that you put on the tool holder to work on the lathe to remove material on the outer race of the bearing because it's probably heat treated.
If there is enough meat, so that, it could be turned down to fit inside our case.

I have a 555 sitting on my bench right now and I could order that bearing thrue Honda to see unless I go back(in the topic) and see if I couldn't get some measurement(if some where givin)
Not sure I have time this coming weekend. I'm going to see 2 prospects since I don't have a TD beside old memories...

But for sure I want to look into it to help us, you, me!

I bought (Will do) one of those cars to give me some project to work on.

[135sohc]

The honda bearing is 59mm OD, the stock bearing is 57.3mm OD.

[francois]

So, we have to remove 1/32 per side. No clue if there is enough materrial left.

[Reaper1]

Oooff. .031" could be a bit depending on the outer race's stock thickness.

[83rampage]

I did some measuring on the case itself, and to the best of my estimates, the thinnest part of the bearing cup (beside the clutch release bearing fork) that the front intermediate shaft bearing sits in is around .180-.200" thick. I did a crude hand calculated measurement, and also used a handheld ultrasonic thickness gauge I had access to. The ultrasonic says its about .200, but I had a hard time getting a consistent reading with it. The hand calculation was .185 and probably erred on the thin side.

Given the bore needs to be enlarged by about .070" total, so about .035" would be taken from the wall thickness. The majority of the bearing bore has a decent amount of meat to it.

I don't know that we really need to build up the case to accomodate the larger Honda bearing if you decided to leave the bearing itself alone and bore the case to fit. I think I would rather enlarge the case than reduced the bearing OD.

What do you guys think?:confused:

[francois]

I did a few research for the Honda bearing and it goes in the Fit, Crosstour and Civic Hybrid. Let just see, I would had more luck funding that bearing used it was used in a B-D-H series...

I don't really mind destroying a brand new one to see if we could turn the diameter.
10x easier then boring the case. But it can be done!

[black86glhs]

After I pull the diff out of my other 555, I'll be looking into doing both. I do not want to take it all out of the case or the bearing. Probably do a 70/30 type of thing if the bearing has enough meat to it.

[Reaper1]

I was at one of the transmission shops I deliver to today and saw a bearing that looked VERY promising! It was in a 1992 Honda Accord automatic transmission. It sits basically in the EXACT same position ours sits, oil slinger and all! It is in the case right next to the ring gear, just like ours. I did a quick count (didn't double check because I was in a hurry) and it was either 12 or 13 rollers.

If somebody can check into this we might have another option. The bearing looked pretty beefy. It's also held in similar to what the 568 uses with a plate. I didn't see a manufacturer or a part number because the diff was still in it covering the outer race quite a bit.

[black86glhs]

I have some stuff on order from McMaster that should get here in the next day or two. The opening up of the case and the downsize of the Honda bearing will begin. I have the case apart and waiting for surgery.

[francois]

According to the Honda part chart, it would translate into a 38.5x67x19. Too big.

Let us know how it goes Bryan!

[shackwrrr]

I have some stuff on order from McMaster that should get here in the next day or two. The opening up of the case and the downsize of the Honda bearing will begin. I have the case apart and waiting for surgery.

I have a 555 case if you need it, sold the gearset so the case is scrap to me. Next time I'm up in Canton I could bring it and pm you

[black86glhs]

Sure. I have been hesitant to do anything previous, but last night I said fit and placed the order.
Having a spare case would be awesome. Could you meet me at Stark State one day this week?

[shackwrrr]

Sure. I have been hesitant to do anything previous, but last night I said fit and placed the order.
Having a spare case would be awesome. Could you meet me at Stark State one day this week?

Probably not this week, let me see what my days off next week are. I need to go to the pull a part

[black86glhs]

Probably not this week, let me see what my days off next week are. I need to go to the pull a partSure thing. Let me know when you can. I can usually make time unless I'm in the middle of class. Sometimes even then.......lol.

[ajakeski]

Here's the end of my 555 intermediate shaft.
Anyone have a definate fix for this?
The case is fine, but this appears to be toast.
39286

[Orangetona]

Here's the end of my 555 intermediate shaft.
Anyone have a definate fix for this?
The case is fine, but this appears to be toast.
39286

Jesus H lol...That sucks. Id say its toast yeah.