PDA

View Full Version : severe power loss



Domino
03-30-2006, 09:21 AM
ok, it started yesterday but i figured i'd be able to take care of things when i replaced my fpr & such. well, i'm still having severe power loss. the car doesn't have much acceleration unless i really get into it. once at speed it seems to surge like a miss or something. along with the fpr, i replaced the plugs as well. the cap, rotor & wires were all replaced less than 2000 miles ago. now, i don't know what a turbo car is supposed to sound like, but in mine i used to hear the turbo whine pretty clear during the whole time the car was running. now, i hear it a little on acceleration but it gets really faint as i get up to speed. does anyone have any ideas on what could be happening? i used up 7.7 gallons ($20) to go approx 75 miles yesterday and i'm headed that general direction today. the car has the 2.2 turbo & A413 tranny.

GLHSKEN
03-30-2006, 09:42 AM
Check your codes. That is the 1st step to recieving help.

to pull codes:

key to on -off-on-off-on. NOT engaging the starter.

The check engine light will begin flashing. count the flashes. in between #'s it will pause.

example:

Flash (pause)
Flash flash (pause)

code 12 battery has been disconnected

Flash Flash Flash Flash Flash (pause)
Flash Flash Flash Flash Flash

Code 55, end of codes.

Domino
03-30-2006, 09:51 AM
yeah, i forgot to do that when i got to work this morning. sorry.

GLHSKEN
03-30-2006, 09:53 AM
No prob.. you either have a map or O2 issue.

Domino
03-30-2006, 10:11 AM
ok, ran codes:

21 - O2 signal doesn't change (i know my O2 sensor is bad, but i can't get it out to replace it, i have a new one at home)

51 - internal logic module fault (but it says this is for 84 turbo only, mine's an 86)


i'm at a loss here. i've had the code 21 for a few weeks & the car has never acted like it is now.

GLHSKEN
03-30-2006, 10:17 AM
Synopsis
Description: Oxygen sensor output indicates lean too long
Power loss light: Off
Limp-in mode: Engine allowed to run rich, but prevented from running lean

Possible Causes
Bad oxygen sensor - Replace the sensor which is located on the turbo housing near the down pipe (for turbo) or on the down pipe near the exhaust manifold.
Bad connection or wiring - Check the wiring and connections between the sensor and the logic module (or SMEC). Clean and regrease any corroded connectors with dielectric grease and repair any shorts. Look for melted wire insulation near the exhaust manifold. A shorted connection to ground or any positive source will cause this fault code.

Low fuel rail pressure - See the Diagnosing Your Fuel System page.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net

tHIS IS THE BEST RESOURCE FOR CHECKING CODES

Domino
03-30-2006, 10:40 AM
ugh. well i guess it's time to find a shop that will remove my old o2 sensor. i've rounded it off trying to get it out myself.

altered7151
03-30-2006, 11:29 AM
ugh. well i guess it's time to find a shop that will remove my old o2 sensor. i've rounded it off trying to get it out myself.

Go to an autozone or somewhere similar that will rent you the O2 removal tool. Its basically a socket with a slice out of the side to go around the wire. Get some PB blaster penetrating oil and spray down the sensor real good and let it soak overnight, with that combination they usually spin right out.

GLHSKEN
03-30-2006, 11:36 AM
Tyler, The socket costs about $5-8, I own one. They are "supposed" to work that way. Problem is, that slice enables the 6 point to expand and actually makes it round easier.

+one on pb blaster and heating it up by running the car... I typically bust off the top now, and use a regular socket with a long extension attached to a breaker bar (or in my case, the electric impact)

Domino
03-30-2006, 12:34 PM
been there, done that. the o2 socket is what rounded it off to start with. i've broken the top off, used a normal socket/breaker bar, vise grips, heated the exhaust, etc.....it won't come out. i called an exhaust shop & they will heat it with a torch to remove it for $20.

Domino
04-01-2006, 01:20 PM
replaced the o2 sensor now, got rid of the code 21. still showing the code 51.

Fault Code 51
Synopsis
Description: Oxygen sensor output indicates lean too long
Power loss light: Off
Limp-in mode: Engine allowed to run rich, but prevented from running lean

Possible Causes
Bad oxygen sensor - Replace the sensor which is located on the turbo housing near the down pipe (for turbo) or on the down pipe near the exhaust manifold.
Bad connection or wiring - Check the wiring and connections between the sensor and the logic module (or SMEC). Clean and regrease any corroded connectors with dielectric grease and repair any shorts. Look for melted wire insulation near the exhaust manifold. A shorted connection to ground or any positive source will cause this fault code.

Low fuel rail pressure - See the Diagnosing Your Fuel System page.


Diagnostic Method
Trigger Parameters
- In closed-loop
- Sensor output indicates lean for more than 715 seconds (11 minutes, 55 seconds)
Results If Component Fails
A fault code 51 is stored, the circuit stays in closed-loop, and the logic module will still monitor the oxygen sensor signal. If the condition persists for four times what it took to set the code, the logic module will allow the engine to run rich, but prevent it from running lean.


i guess i'll be checking fuel rail pressure next :(

Domino
04-04-2006, 12:31 AM
new problems...check pgs 3 & 4 in this topic

http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74981

Lee'sdaytona
04-22-2006, 07:45 PM
To be honest, I think your chaseing your tail. First of all, it seems the people on that forum are not as familiar with this engine setup as most on this forum are. I would ask your questions here. Someone suggested you go to Autozone for a new Hall Effect Pickup, and most of us know that these are garbage and a waste of your time and money. Mopar is the only way to go on this particular part. Definately get the timing corrected, make sure that timing belt is tight, and ignition timing is correct. Don't be too afraid to take the intake setup off the turbo, it looks like a lot, but once you get into it, it really isn't that bad. Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with your turbo if you can hear it spool up, and there is no blue smoke coming from the exhaust. Go for that boost gauge, even if its a stocker from a junkyard that you could hook up temporarily. Good luck!
-Lee

85_600
04-23-2006, 01:16 AM
Domino, I read your posts here and over at AllPar. I sort of skimmed through the AllPar ones so forgive me if I missed this, BUT, have you done a compression check? I ask this because about 95% of your symptoms are EXACTLY like mine on my 85 Dodge 600 T1. My problem was found to be really low compression on one cylinder. I have 150 90 120 125 compression readings.

Before this happened, I drove it 3 hours with a bad O2 and almost raw fuel coming out of the tail pipe. Codes were the same (I think) as yours. Once the O2 was swapped out it ran fine.

When my stumble appeared, it was more noticeable at idle and slow speeds, like at 25 - 35 mph. I'd have a surging effect. If I was on a slight hill and had to stop, I'd stall out several times before getting to the top.

So, if you have not done so yet, check your compression. If you have and I missed the readings I'm sorry...:o

Lee'sdaytona
04-23-2006, 04:21 PM
Sorry to steal, but do you guys think a leaky injector would cause a low compression to the tune of 100? Across the board it reads 130, 100, 150, 135. I'm thinking the #2 cyl could have a leaking injector causing the oil to wash away and leak compression. Is this possible? I haven't thrown some oil down in the spark plug hole yet to see if its block or head related, but that was just a thought I had
-Lee

85_600
04-23-2006, 04:34 PM
Sorry to steal, but do you guys think a leaky injector would cause a low compression to the tune of 100? Across the board it reads 130, 100, 150, 135. I'm thinking the #2 cyl could have a leaking injector causing the oil to wash away and leak compression. Is this possible? I haven't thrown some oil down in the spark plug hole yet to see if its block or head related, but that was just a thought I had
-Lee

Just an FYI: When I added a teaspoon of oil to my "90" cylinder it went to 100. I asked Simon to help diagnose this problem I was having and between the sound clip I had of my exhaust tone at idle with slight rev's, and the numbers in my post above, the general consenus was: A) Cracked piston (90 seems to be a magical number for that) or B) Ring problem, since the other two were low as well.

Lee'sdaytona
04-23-2006, 07:36 PM
Just an FYI: When I added a teaspoon of oil to my "90" cylinder it went to 100. I asked Simon to help diagnose this problem I was having and between the sound clip I had of my exhaust tone at idle with slight rev's, and the numbers in my post above, the general consenus was: A) Cracked piston (90 seems to be a magical number for that) or B) Ring problem, since the other two were low as well.
Oh well, wishful thinking....That gives me either an excuse to go all forged this summer, or go for the turbo mini I've always wanted....:amen: It sucks since I'm out at college, and I refuse to buy a quart of oil to do the test, since in a week, I'll be home were I am stocked pretty well with oil
-Lee

85_600
04-23-2006, 08:19 PM
I wonder if, um, vegtable oil would work?

turbovanmanČ
04-24-2006, 03:47 AM
Yes, it will work.

Paul hit it bang on, you need to start with the basics. Compression test-when doing it, disconnect the HEP connectors, this will disable fuel and spark. If this is ok, then check fuel pressure, cam timing and base timing.

85_600
04-24-2006, 02:36 PM
Yes, it will work.

Paul hit it bang on, you need to start with the basics. Compression test-when doing it, disconnect the HEP connectors, this will disable fuel and spark. If this is ok, then check fuel pressure, cam timing and base timing.


Yeah, Believe me, do start with the easy stuff first. I always try to make things harder than they are but Simon helped me out BIG TIME! :thumb: