are all auto's dogg's for these cars???

[bm_zimmer]

i cant get over the difference between an auto and a stick. i swapped everything t2 from my daytona over to my lancer except the trans. i wanted an auto but now im getting ready for a tranny swap. anyone in syracuse wanna take a look? lol. my daytona was twice what my lancer is LOL!

[Speedeuphoria]

well the stock auto is known to be a slushbox. Also near stock power I'm sure there is a noticeable difference between manual and auto

[turbovanman²]

Do you have the right cal? is your cam timing right? TC took a dump? A stock TII with everything set up properly will blow the tires away with an auto. Granted its no stick but if you load up the TC, all you will do is spin the tires.

[bm_zimmer]

stock t2 cal out of a shelby z. cam timing i have been through a hundred times. it runs worse wheni go back a tooth or forwards a tooth. tc=throttle cable??? its a dogg off the line. a stock stratus kicked my --- today. lol. hg is around 15.5-16.5 at idle.

[turbovanman²]

Whats your altitude? 16.5 is too low, should be 19-20"

[Vigo]

tc refers to torque converter.

dont be too surprised about the auto thing.. stockish turbo autos are WAY slower than the sticks. the gap shrinks when you make more power than traction.

[gasketmaster]

I'm sure you have but check the ignition timing :nod:

What is the torque converter out of ???

Can you brake stall it to 10psi ???

[CaptMoe]

I think the auto's are limited by being 3spd units. Not much gearing to play with and get you going.

But even my Stage 1 Autostick PT GT is a dog compared to my 5spd IROC R/T...

[turbovanman²]

tc refers to torque converter.

dont be too surprised about the auto thing.. stockish turbo autos are WAY slower than the sticks. the gap shrinks when you make more power than traction.

I disagree. Sure if both a 5 speed and an auto are stopped and want to race, the auto doesn't preload he'll get waxed. But brake torque it and say bye bye to the 5 speed, ;)


I think the auto's are limited by being 3spd units. Not much gearing to play with and get you going.

But even my Stage 1 Autostick PT GT is a dog compared to my 5spd IROC R/T...


The gearing is pretty good for an auto, we just need a 4th od gear. My van is a dog if I punch it off the line but it gives my tires chance to bite. If I brake torque it, hold on, :nod:

[zin]

stock t2 cal out of a shelby z. cam timing i have been through a hundred times. it runs worse wheni go back a tooth or forwards a tooth. tc=throttle cable??? its a dogg off the line. a stock stratus kicked my --- today. lol. hg is around 15.5-16.5 at idle.

If it's really doggy off the line, the TC could have a bad stator, it'll barely get out of it's own way, but be OK at speed. If you have a known good converter to try, swap them, also be sure you have a turbo converter there is a difference in stall (turbos a little higher).

Mike

[bm_zimmer]

I can brake boost to 12psi. It launches alot better that way(still nowhere near my stick tona). But just normal getup and go i feel like im driving slower than an auto geo tracker at wot.

im at about 350 ft above sealevel.

Torque converter is stock. Its a a413 from a stock LS.

Im gonna re-time it again. Im gonna check ignition timing again aswell.

Grrrr this car is frustrating me. im so used to my daytonas launch and getup and go. lol

[GLHNSLHT2]

My stock 87 T2 auto is a dog. It's not fast unless you really mean it which is part of what I like about it. Course it has the low stall converter. I can still brake boost it to 15psi and it'll go pretty good out of the hole.

[bm_zimmer]

If it's really doggy off the line, the TC could have a bad stator, it'll barely get out of it's own way, but be OK at speed. If you have a known good converter to try, swap them, also be sure you have a turbo converter there is a difference in stall (turbos a little higher).

Mike

Im not sure if the tranny was ever replaced so i couldnt tell you to much about what tc is in it. The person i bought the car off of didnt even know how to change the plugs. All the records that came with the car show that. But no tranny problems in the records.

[bm_zimmer]

My stock 87 T2 auto is a dog. It's not fast unless you really mean it which is part of what I like about it. Course it has the low stall converter. I can still brake boost it to 15psi and it'll go pretty good out of the hole.

Yeah its not even really mean stepping on it from a roll. Im beggining to think it is time for a rebuild. LOL

[RoadWarrior222]

Depends what you mean by "stockish" too, do the VB tweaks and a nominal 136HP stock '88 V6 will fry the tires into second and chirp into 3rd if you let it.

[TurboII]

[QUOTE=turbovanman;398713]I disagree. Sure if both a 5 speed and an auto are stopped and want to race, the auto doesn't preload he'll get waxed. But brake torque it and say bye bye to the 5 speed, ;)QUOTE]



anti-lag can help with that. 5spd+anti-lag=:thumb:


auto might have it free but who cares. 5spd FTW for me:hail:

[turbovanman²]

Yeah its not even really mean stepping on it from a roll. Im beggining to think it is time for a rebuild. LOL

Thats normal, brake torque and report back, :eyebrows:

[bm_zimmer]

Thats normal, brake torque and report back, :eyebrows:

i brake boosted and it feels ok. i think it is just a dog! maybe i need some more horsepower or there is something wrong. i must investigate or swap back over to stick. I really wanted an auto though.

it also starts skipping at 13 psi. acts like im hitting overboost without the serious bog down.

[turbovanman²]

i brake boosted and it feels ok. i think it is just a dog! maybe i need some more horsepower or there is something wrong. i must investigate or swap back over to stick. I really wanted an auto though.

When you 2 foot it, what rpm do you see?

Stock size tires?

Fluid red or ?

I never had an issue with my old 8 valve. Give it more boost, :eyebrows:

Also, check everything over, 16.5 inches at idle is too low.

[bm_zimmer]

When you 2 foot it, what rpm do you see?

Stock size tires?

Fluid red or ?

need to get a tach but sounds around 3000rpm.

225 60 15

brand new trans fluid. red

[turbovanman²]

need to get a tach but sounds around 3000rpm.

225 60 15

brand new trans fluid. red

Well guessing doesn't work and if its really 3000 rpm, thats part of the problem, turbo's need a bit more stall to spool.

225/60 are a taller tire which will help make it doggy off the line.

[GLHNSLHT2]

need to get a tach but sounds around 3000rpm.

225 60 15

brand new trans fluid. red

OMG! That's half your problem. Those tires are huge. Try some 205 60's or 225/50's.

[shadow88]

I'd bet on the problem being cam and or ignition timing. After that's confirmed good, I'd check without the downpipe, I'm leaning toward a clogged catalyst. After that, I'd look at fuel pressure while under load. My 2 cents.;)

[TurboII]

your just prolly use to your 5spd and thats a pretty mean tire you got their.

[badandy]

I'd bet on the problem being cam and or ignition timing. After that's confirmed good, I'd check without the downpipe, I'm leaning toward a clogged catalyst. After that, I'd look at fuel pressure while under load. My 2 cents.;)
I'm leaning towards it's because you are using the stock TII 5spd calibration/computer in an automatic car instead of a proper 5 spd calibration.

[ShadowFromHell]

You know, I fought this on my new yorker, it was SOOO doggy. I blamed it on the TQ, the fact it was a log ect... So after It was swapped to a T2, and had a new tranny/TQ swapped in it was still just as bad. So... the cam was noisy (stock) so i swapped it to a 88 T1 cam. HUGE DIFFERENCE! It will spin the tires without touching the brake now, might be something to look into.

[Ondonti]

I disagree. Sure if both a 5 speed and an auto are stopped and want to race, the auto doesn't preload he'll get waxed. But brake torque it and say bye bye to the 5 speed, ;)

That only applies if the driver of the 5 speed is retarded. They have a clutch so they can have whatever load they want almost instantly ;)
Even without antilag.

If your car can hook up when brake boosting on the street, its slow.

[turbovanman²]

That only applies if the driver of the 5 speed is retarded. They have a clutch so they can have whatever load they want almost instantly ;)
Even without antilag.

If your car can hook up when brake boosting on the street, its slow.

True to a point, you can't load a turbo in neutral unless its a Mitsu, ;) and not so true, ;);)

[shadow88]

I'm leaning towards it's because you are using the stock TII 5spd calibration/computer in an automatic car instead of a proper 5 spd calibration.

There's a difference? I've never had an auto turbo mopar, so this is news to me. I thought for the non lockup trans, the engine calibration was the same.

Also, there is no factory auto T2 computer, is there?

[bm_zimmer]

catalytic is removed
stock t1 cam has been installed
correction on tire size. 205 60 15's are on it. i took 225 60 15's off the car in the begining.
just got out of work so i havent rechecked ign and cam timing. but 2 people have done besides me and it is the samething.

[Reaper1]

I will say to things here...5-speeds FEEL faster than stock autos because of the g-forces put on you when you shift, you feel the sudden acceleration after a gear change, so it FEELS fast. A stock auto does not do that nearly as much as the TC absorbs some of that along with the stock shifting of an auto being usually fairly soft.

In a drag race I will take an auto over a stick ANY DAY!! Why? Human error. Unless you REALLY mess up, you aren't going to miss a shift, grind a gear, or otherwise in an auto...whereas the 5-speed guy you just wasted is back there making excuses as to why he left his driver mod at home....:nod:

[thefitisgay]

i think reaper is onto something.... its like when i tail my boss's dump in his pickup hell launch on me at a light and seem like hes a mile ahead so i stomp it to keep up then i gotta nail the brakes when he shifts

idk why you guys hate the auto trans so much granted i never had one in a turbo car my 2.5 auto was awsome... i could shift that thing like crazy and i ate 2nd gear with the gas pedal

[turbovanman²]

Auto's are great as are 5 speeds. I wish I could have both, I love rowing gears, being in control but commuting these days blows with a manual, too much traffic. :mad:

[Tony Hanna]

Also, there is no factory auto T2 computer, is there?

Weren't the 8valve TC's TII/auto?

[Ondonti]

True to a point, you can't load a turbo in neutral unless its a Mitsu, ;) and not so true, ;);)

Like I said, if you need boost to spin the tires, that crap is slow. :thumb:

You also seem to be forgetting that 5 speeds have clutches. You can load all you want while launching. Before the launch just takes the right rpms to get the car moving.

I dont think anybody said 5 speeds were better for drag racing.

They put more power to the ground. You dont need jerky shifts to read that on the dyno ;)

[86Shelby]

About half of the '87 Shelby Lancers came with TII auto drivetrains. Only good for you if you're looking for a Logic Module though.

[Vigo]

They put more power to the ground.

thats the bottom line. For drag racing, i agree that the auto has advantages, but as for which car will feel faster, as long as you have traction, the 5spd will win every time.


as far as im concerned the only time an auto has a HUGE advantage on the street is when your turbo is so big and the rest of your engine so lame that you cant build boost until the end of 2nd with a stick. even with an auto you'd still suck unless you brake boosted and not every race starts before the light turns green. sure some people are in that boat, but imo for stockish, low power cars, a 5spd will effectively be faster. and more fun. hehe

[turbovanman²]

Like I said, if you need boost to spin the tires, that crap is slow. :thumb:

You also seem to be forgetting that 5 speeds have clutches. You can load all you want while launching. Before the launch just takes the right rpms to get the car moving.

I dont think anybody said 5 speeds were better for drag racing.

They put more power to the ground. You dont need jerky shifts to read that on the dyno ;)

I disgree, you can't load alot of turbo's using a 5 speed unless you have some sort of launching program.

[Ondonti]

I disgree, you can't load alot of turbo's using a 5 speed unless you have some sort of launching program.

Huh? you dont need load to spin tires ;)

You build load during the launch. Duh.
During = NOT BEFORE

My datalog shows 5-7psi boost BEFORE launch though. Thats on an 800whp capable hotside.

[ShadowFromHell]

I agree sticks seem faster. But, after fighting and fighting a stick at the track, I'm look forward to dragging a auto this next summer.

Ive had both.. and I like both. So my cushy 86 newyorker is staying a auto, and when I want a stick, the CSX will come out of the garage :)

[turbovanman²]

Huh? you dont need load to spin tires ;)

You build load during the launch. Duh.
During = NOT BEFORE

My datalog shows 5-7psi boost BEFORE launch though. Thats on an 800whp capable hotside.

Maybe I want boost before I launch, durrr, :eyebrows:

[bm_zimmer]

well mr. turbovanman, you were right that there was something wrong. motor went. there was a lack of oiling from the oil pump. i have to tear it down to see what else may have gon wrong. oil pressure dropped real fast on the highway and the motor started knocking. i get off the highway and drive straight home. get almost home and it sounded like a rod broke in half. just a loud scrapping and clunking noise. I BLEW MY FIRST MOTOR LOL.

[Vigo]

im still wiating to blow my first. I currently own 2 vehicles around 300k on original motors, heh and ive owned somewhere between 20 and 30 vehicles iirc.

Anyway, yup, fuggered bearing will definitely drag your power down :(