The 10.99 Upgrade Is Coming Along!

[gasketmaster]

I had hoped to get the minivan out this season but it's looking like it will be early spring before it's making hot water ;)

My trans is back.....fresh and ready to go :nod:

The FM converter had about 20% slippage previously......it has now been reworked :eyebrows:

The new shortblock is assembled and ready to go with forged pistons,ARP fasteners and all of the required machine work :D

I've decided to give the 655 casting a try because I've had good luck using larger intake runner volumes in turbocharged applications in the past ;)

Here are some pictures of the head....it's coming along! :nod:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3918.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3921.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3920.jpg

[turbovanman²]

Holy crap, those ports are huge, :wow1:

Looks like your making it a swirl/g head hybrid, :eyebrows:

What turbo?

Whats the track limit without a cage or rollbar?

[gasketmaster]

Holy crap, those ports are huge, :wow1:

Looks like your making it a swirl/g head hybrid, :eyebrows:

What turbo?

Whats the track limit without a cage or rollbar?

Yes.....those ports ARE huge! LOL!

I'm sending my ballbearing 50trim turbo in for an upgrade :eyebrows:

A rollbar is required at 11.49 :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Yes.....those ports ARE huge! LOL!

I'm sending my ballbearing 50trim turbo in for an upgrade :eyebrows:

A rollbar is required at 11.49 :thumb:


Wonder what a Van rollbar looks like, :eyebrows:

[gasketmaster]

Wonder what a Van rollbar looks like, :eyebrows:

I'm not sure just yet how I want it installed but it will definitly have swing outs :D

[gvare001]

What are you doing for intake manifold?

[shadow88]

Wonder what a Van rollbar looks like, :eyebrows:

Wait unitl spring ;)

Gasketmaster- do you reshape or trim the guides before installing them?

[glhs875]

That looks so much like the head on my GLHS it ain't funny!!! With proper porting that head should make BIG HP!!! What are you doing for an intake. I had a 2 piece welded so it could be ported enough. I plan on a full blown custom intake in the future. The power that my GLHS made @ 30psi with an SC6152 turbo scaired the crap out of me!!! It made me decide to up the safety of my car bigtime (cage, better brakes, seatbelts, etc.)!


Here's a couple of old shots of mine to show how similar yours is. Mine looks a little different/better now since I freshened it up.

[GLHNSLHT2]

655 is a nice head. I know what he's doing for an intake. Although I think he should go with a 58mm TB vs. the 52. But oh well. :)

[gasketmaster]

655 is a nice head. I know what he's doing for an intake. Although I think he should go with a 58mm TB vs. the 52. But oh well. :)


The intake looks kinda like this :)

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/100_1313.jpg

Thanks Jay :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

What are you doing for intake manifold?

See post #10 ;)

[glhs875]

That intake has some potential!! Have the runners been ported to match the head?

[gasketmaster]

Wait unitl spring ;)

Gasketmaster- do you reshape or trim the guides before installing them?


Sometimes we trim them....it just depends how far they hang out in the air stream.

[gasketmaster]

That intake has some potential!! Have the runners been ported to match the head?

That is a picture of Jay's intake ;)

He made me a plenum just like that only I don't have the spacer between the upper and lower ;)

My lower is getting welded in a few places so we can get it out to the largest cross-sectional area we can :nod:

[gasketmaster]

That looks so much like the head on my GLHS it ain't funny!!! With proper porting that head should make BIG HP!!! What are you doing for an intake. I had a 2 piece welded so it could be ported enough. I plan on a full blown custom intake in the future. The power that my GLHS made @ 30psi with an SC6152 turbo scaired the crap out of me!!! It made me decide to up the safety of my car bigtime (cage, better brakes, seatbelts, etc.)!


Here's a couple of old shots of mine to show how similar yours is. Mine looks a little different/better now since I freshened it up.

Have you dynoed or ran your combo at 30psi?

[BadAssPerformance]

Lookin' good Terry! Damn, thats almost enough to make Simon want to go 8 valve :D

[glhs875]

Have you dynoed or ran your combo at 30psi?


No, neither. The highest boost I ran was staged (3) to 20psi. And that was with the bov limting boost creep (I know not good)! The swingvalve could not bleed off enough exhaust to control boost above 5500rpm, it became uncontrollable after that point. I've since have been fabricating an external wastegate. All I can say is, that with an S3 cam I never did find the upper rpm power point. Had it as high as 7800rpm but was running out of valvetrain. Broke alot of valvetrain parts. The valvetrain is mainly what I have been concentating on. I hope to start back to work on the GLHS this spring after a 2 year break. We'll see. When the boost would hit 26psi from boost creep in 2nd at around 75to 80mph the tires would break loose. I made 1 pass @ 30psi in front of the house in high gear only. Went from 50mph to 100+ in well less than 1/8th mile. I still have some things to work out with the combo.

[glhs875]

Here's a coulple shots of my lower ports. I since have done even more work to it.

[turbovanman²]

Lookin' good Terry! Damn, thats almost enough to make Simon want to go 8 valve :D

Not in a million years, his combo might be awesome but I love mine, the midrange and throttle response is insane and I haven't done any tuning yet, :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Not in a million years, his combo might be awesome but I love mine, the midrange and throttle response is insane and I haven't done any tuning yet, :eyebrows:

getting 40mpg yet? ;)

[Shadow]

10.99 is a magical #, if I do say so myself! ;) In a caravan to boot! :thumb:
Good luck my friend! :nod:

[Shadow]

All I can say is, that with an S3 cam I never did find the upper rpm power point. Had it as high as 7800rpm but was running out of valvetrain.

Where did you have the cam degreed to? Or how much advance/retard were you running?

[cordes]

getting 40mpg yet? ;)

:drum:

[turbovanman²]

getting 40mpg yet? ;)

Never said I would, :confused:

But getting an average of 16/17 city/hwy, 8 valve, 12/14 mpg, :(

[gasketmaster]

10.99 is a magical #, if I do say so myself! ;) In a caravan to boot! :thumb:
Good luck my friend! :nod:

I DO understand the monumental task at hand :nod:

But I'm confident that 10.99 IS attainable......even in a small bus :D

[BadAssPerformance]

Never said I would, :confused:

But getting an average of 16/17 city/hwy, 8 valve, 12/14 mpg, :(

Damn, my Dakota gets better than that... ;)

[gasketmaster]

655 is a nice head. I know what he's doing for an intake. Although I think he should go with a 58mm TB vs. the 52. But oh well. :)

I just might......but I'd rather add it after the fact so we can all see if it really does anything :)

Going from my stock throttle body to the 52 gave no measureable gains....even at 35psi ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

that just means the cork was somewhere else?

[gvare001]

But I'm confident that 10.99 IS attainable......even in a small bus


Hell yeah, it's like the Disney rides, the more loaded they are, the better they ride.

[gasketmaster]

Lookin' good Terry! Damn, thats almost enough to make Simon want to go 8 valve :D

:lol::lol::lol:

Thanks JT :D

[gasketmaster]

that just means the cork was somewhere else?

Agreed :thumb:

[gvare001]

You ported the exhaust ports on that head?

[turbovanman²]

I just might......but I'd rather add it after the fact so we can all see if it really does anything :)

Going from my stock throttle body to the 52 gave no measureable gains....even at 35psi ;)

That was all stock stuff, this isn't stock anymore, toto, :eyebrows:

[gasketmaster]

You ported the exhaust ports on that head?

Yes.....broadened the port and the short turn area :)

[Ondonti]

Never said I would, :confused:

But getting an average of 16/17 city/hwy, 8 valve, 12/14 mpg, :(

How the crap does that happen for you? Its a 4 cylinder man!

[turbovanman²]

How the crap does that happen for you? Its a 4 cylinder man!

No aerodynamics, 3 speed auto, stupid high rpm's, lots of weight. The wideband was reading rich, it likes to run at 14:1 all the time, need to lean her out a bit.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I just might......but I'd rather add it after the fact so we can all see if it really does anything :)

Going from my stock throttle body to the 52 gave no measureable gains....even at 35psi ;)


Have you got that thing welded up yet? If not hold off. I'm working on an adapter that allows you to run a 52mm TB on an intake setup for a 58mm TB. You can't go from a 52 to a 58 unless you cut the end of the intake off and re-weld. This would allow you to run the 52 setup and then simply unbolt the adapter and bolt a 58mm TB right up. I should have it machined up by the beginning of November.

Then you could have a true back to back test as it'd be a 5 minute process.

[gasketmaster]

Have you got that thing welded up yet? If not hold off. I'm working on an adapter that allows you to run a 52mm TB on an intake setup for a 58mm TB. You can't go from a 52 to a 58 unless you cut the end of the intake off and re-weld. This would allow you to run the 52 setup and then simply unbolt the adapter and bolt a 58mm TB right up. I should have it machined up by the beginning of November.

Then you could have a true back to back test as it'd be a 5 minute process.

Sounds great :clap:

Sign me up :D

[glhs875]

Where did you have the cam degreed to? Or how much advance/retard were you running?



Tried many different settings from 6deg. advance, to I think 6deg. retard. And then settled with it set @ 4deg retard. I like things to breath good up top! I also tried an 89T1 cam with the same combo to tame it down somewhat because of the valvetrain issues. That cam (89T1) pulled great to 7200rpm with it set @ 4deg. retard with the 655 casting size ports. In my opinion, even though my head is a 445 casting, the port size of a 655 casting is the way to go for an 8V. But the valvetrain will need some mods to get the total good out of it.

[Ondonti]

Have you got that thing welded up yet? If not hold off. I'm working on an adapter that allows you to run a 52mm TB on an intake setup for a 58mm TB. You can't go from a 52 to a 58 unless you cut the end of the intake off and re-weld. This would allow you to run the 52 setup and then simply unbolt the adapter and bolt a 58mm TB right up. I should have it machined up by the beginning of November.

Then you could have a true back to back test as it'd be a 5 minute process.
HUH?

52mm bolts to 58mm and vice versa unless you are using the wrong TB.

[glhs875]

I predict once Terry gets the combo dialed it will be one mean mutha!!!

[GLHNSLHT2]

HUH?

52mm bolts to 58mm and vice versa unless you are using the wrong TB.

Yes the bolt spacing is the same. Maybe this pic will clear things up? It's 52 and 58 TB plates. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3245 If you bolt a 52 to a 58 the throttle arm hits and holds the throttle open. Aaron had this issue with his 1st round of intakes I hear. If you bolt a 58 to a 52 the hole is too small and the TB will hang over the end plate all funky. So the best bet for future planning is to get a 58mm setup and then if you want to run the 52 you just need an adapter that get's the TB away from the end and allows functioning of the throttle arm.

[Vigo]

hmm... maybe i should keep an eye out for these 655 heads.. what did they come on?

[turbovanman²]

Yes the bolt spacing is the same. Maybe this pic will clear things up? It's 52 and 58 TB plates. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3245 If you bolt a 52 to a 58 the throttle arm hits and holds the throttle open. Aaron had this issue with his 1st round of intakes I hear. If you bolt a 58 to a 52 the hole is too small and the TB will hang over the end plate all funky. So the best bet for future planning is to get a 58mm setup and then if you want to run the 52 you just need an adapter that get's the TB away from the end and allows functioning of the throttle arm.

I didn't have an issue swapping back and forth on a 2 piece intake?

When I get mine back on the dyno, I might do a back to back test on 52-58 just to see, for shits and giggles.



I predict once Terry gets the combo dialed it will be one mean mutha!!!


Yep, I agree, :amen:

[GLHNSLHT2]

hmm... maybe i should keep an eye out for these 655 heads.. what did they come on?
81-82 cars.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I didn't have an issue swapping back and forth on a 2 piece intake?




Simon did you even look at the pic? Did you look at my intake on my pics gallery or the pic in post #10? I never mentioned anything about a stock intake. I came up with my own end plate and all the dimensions.

[turbovanman²]

Simon did you even look at the pic? Did you look at my intake on my pics gallery or the pic in post #10? I never mentioned anything about a stock intake. I came up with my own end plate and all the dimensions.

Yes, thats why I was confused??? So your saying on YOUR intake, there is clearance issues?

[GLHNSLHT2]

With my intake you either get a 52 or a 58mm setup. Use the correct TB for the intake you have and there is ZERO clearance issues. But you can't bolt a 52 to a 58 setup without an adapter, and a 58 hangs over the sides of a 52 setup and probably won't seal.

[boost geek]

Here's my 445 head that I just aquired, (thanks Bakes!) I know it looks a little rough yet, will get a little TLC from Dr. Feelgood.:love:
Should get my 2 piece intake this week, do some welding on the lower runner bosses.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2449.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2452.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2448.jpg

[turbovanman²]

With my intake you either get a 52 or a 58mm setup. Use the correct TB for the intake you have and there is ZERO clearance issues. But you can't bolt a 52 to a 58 setup without an adapter, and a 58 hangs over the sides of a 52 setup and probably won't seal.

Your intake or a stock 2 piece? If your intake, I can see why, with the size of the plenum, :nod:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Simon, I think it's your bedtime. There hasn't been talk of a stock 2 piece intake till you brought it up. I said "My Intake" didn't I? Terry is going to be running one of my Plenums. Read post #10

[turbovanman²]

Simon, I think it's your bedtime. There hasn't been talk of a stock 2 piece intake till you brought it up. I said "My Intake" didn't I? Terry is going to be running one of my Plenums. Read post #10

This started after Brent questioned the fitment of a 52 and 58.

[glhs875]

[QUOTE=boost geek;391215]Here's my 445 head that I just aquired, (thanks Bakes!) I know it looks a little rough yet, will get a little TLC from Dr. Feelgood.:love:
Should get my 2 piece intake this week, do some welding on the lower runner bosses.



Starting to look good. Be sure and do some deshrouding and rework the combustion chambers some. I would also have the head milled at least .030 to .040, and possibly use a thinner than stock head gasket. I would shoot for at least the same compression the swirl head provides. Myself, I'm going for higher than stock compression.

[2.216VTurbo]

Nice bowls and runners Terry, if that is all your handiwork you got skills with a die grinder:amen: 10.99 in a Mini would be HUGE for our community:thumb:

[gasketmaster]

Nice bowls and runners Terry, if that is all your handiwork you got skills with a die grinder:amen: 10.99 in a Mini would be HUGE for our community:thumb:

That's my buddy Tom's work :thumb:

We both worked at the same speed shop back in the 80's.He did the bottom end machining and I did the head/manifold porting and related machine work ;)

My skills are as good but he gave me a deal I couldn't pass up :D

Tom might be offering some cylinder head work to the TD community after we see how this project goes.He stayed in the business and currently owns T-Mac Performance Engines an automotive machine shop :)

I've been around this work for 30 years and he's the only guy that touches my stuff ;)

10.99 is a big number in a minivan........but I'll give it my best shot :D

[cordes]

I've been around this work for 30 years and he's the only guy that touches my stuff ;)



insert joke here. :drum:

[gasketmaster]

insert joke here. :drum:

Only if I would have said "Touch my junk" :thumb:

[Shadow]

I DO understand the monumental task at hand :nod:

But I'm confident that 10.99 IS attainable......even in a small bus :D

Don't get me wrong, I totally think you can do it! Specially if your going to spray! :thumb:

[Shadow]

Tried many different settings from 6deg. advance, to I think 6deg. retard. And then settled with it set @ 4deg retard. I like things to breath good up top! I also tried an 89T1 cam with the same combo to tame it down somewhat because of the valvetrain issues. That cam (89T1) pulled great to 7200rpm with it set @ 4deg. retard with the 655 casting size ports. In my opinion, even though my head is a 445 casting, the port size of a 655 casting is the way to go for an 8V. But the valvetrain will need some mods to get the total good out of it.

That's good to know, cause the next thing I'm doing on the Charger is retard the stock cam and see how it reacts.

[glhs875]

That's good to know, cause the next thing I'm doing on the Charger is retard the stock cam and see how it reacts.


I think you'll like it. You'll loose a little bottom end, but with tuning and some adjustments, very little! Get the revs up and don't look back.

[Dave]

Terry, I have to ask. How was it possible to run 35psi on just 52pph injectors? I understand you were running race gas, but the A/F's had to be through the roof!

[2.216VTurbo]

That's good to know, cause the next thing I'm doing on the Charger is retard the stock cam and see how it reacts.

Yeah, retard the exhaust cam a bit, then advance the intake cam a little. Oh wait a minute. Nevermind:lol:

[gasketmaster]

Terry, I have to ask. How was it possible to run 35psi on just 52pph injectors? I understand you were running race gas, but the A/F's had to be through the roof!

Because my top end didn't move much air ;)

Things might be different now :thumb:

[Speedeuphoria]

My trans is back.....fresh and ready to go :nod:

The FM converter had about 20% slippage previously......it has now been reworked :eyebrows:

Hey good luck on the 10.99!! I really hope you make your goal and make all of us proud:hail:

I also hope you got the trans case welded up and the ring and pinion heat treated

I was wondering who worked on the converter? Seems those converters do have high 18-20% slip. I know the Good NAN ones are down to like 8-10% slip

[gasketmaster]

Hey good luck on the 10.99!! I really hope you make your goal and make all of us proud:hail:

I also hope you got the trans case welded up and the ring and pinion heat treated

I was wondering who worked on the converter? Seems those converters do have high 18-20% slip. I know the Good NAN ones are down to like 8-10% slip

Thanks!

I didn't weld the case or heat treat the ring and pinion but that stuff hasn't been an issue yet......maybe those mods are in my near future! LOL!

I had the guys at PTC go through my converter....we'll see how they did ;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

35psi through a straw doesn't require much fuel. 35psi through a sewer pipe needs more fuel, understand Dave?

[gasketmaster]

Getting closer :eyebrows:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3941.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3939.jpg

[boost geek]

^ I'm saving those pics.:D

[2.216VTurbo]

Your bud Tom has got skills for sure:thumb: I'd let him touch my junk, er Head, uh nevermind:D I'm suprised he wants the guides that 'long' though, could trim it some but durability would suffer...

[gasketmaster]

Your bud Tom has got skills for sure:thumb: I'd let him touch my junk, er Head, uh nevermind:D I'm suprised he wants the guides that 'long' though, could trim it some but durability would suffer...

A few things :)

Tom has MAD SKILLS :thumb:

This head is a budget job for me because........I'M CHEAP :D

The 2-3 cfm you might get from cutting that guide down is not worth the trade off in valve guide life to me :)

I want an engine that lasts......I don't want to be wrenchin' on it ll the time...I'm gettin' to old for that stuff :D

Your spring retainers might be put to use very shortly :eyebrows:

[OmniLuvr]

that is sweet, this first pick almost looks like the ports were cnc'd

[Dave]

35psi through a straw doesn't require much fuel. 35psi through a sewer pipe needs more fuel, understand Dave?

Yes I understand that. I was under the impression he had some head work, a ported 2 piece intake, ported exhaust manifold, fed through by a GT35R - flowing quite a good volume of air. That to me would suggest more of a lower BSFC. Obviously the higher the BSFC the less fuel required. Trust me, I know how all this stuff works... I sell injectors all day long. :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

Yes I understand that. I was under the impression he had some head work, a ported 2 piece intake, ported exhaust manifold, fed through by a GT35R - flowing quite a good volume of air. That to me would suggest more of a lower BSFC. Obviously the higher the BSFC the less fuel required. Trust me, I know how all this stuff works... I sell injectors all day long. :thumb:

Let me straighten out a few myths young Brotha :)

Very mildly ported head with stock valves
unported stock 2 piece
SC50 trim ballbearing turbo....nowhere near the GT35R! LOL!

I've listed my setup many times over the last year.....no secrets :D

In fact....it looks like you have everything I have on YOUR minivan :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

In fact....it looks like you have everything I have on YOUR minivan :thumb:

Except one very big detail, you know how to tune and know turbo cars, errr vans, inside and out, :clap:

[BadAssPerformance]

... I sell injectors all day long. :thumb:

Not to hijack, but... PM me if you can get me a killer deal on a set of 4 160pph :D


Except one very big detail, you know how to tune and know turbo cars, errr vans, inside and out, :clap:

And there you have it :thumb:

[8valves]

Terry, sorry I never got you those pics you asked for. I have the head boxed away somewhere and just have been too busy to get to it. It looks like you're on a somewhat similar path though, in both ports and chamber.

[Pat]

Not to hijack, but... PM me if you can get me a killer deal on a set of 4 160pph :D


I smell alky!

[gasketmaster]

I smell alky!

That's what I was thinking :D

[gasketmaster]

Terry, sorry I never got you those pics you asked for. I have the head boxed away somewhere and just have been too busy to get to it. It looks like you're on a somewhat similar path though, in both ports and chamber.

No problem Aaron :)

We just dove in :D

[BadAssPerformance]

I smell alky!

or just a lotta gas :D

[4cefedomni]

i got a set of 160lb/hr injectors:D

[t3rse]

wanna sell em?

[turbovanman²]

He's going to need them, his engine is going to be pretty wild, :eyebrows:

[John B]

, could trim it some but durability would suffer...

You can shape the guide like an airfoil without shortening it. Increases flow, same durability.

PS, what kind of head are you taking off?

[4cefedomni]

He's going to need them, his engine is going to be pretty wild, :eyebrows:

lol umm yeah. i gotta get a set of 75lb/hr injectors for my current engine i bought the 160s for my hybrid project but i fear they might be a bit overkill, so if i can recover my costs back out of them i'd sell them.

[gasketmaster]

You can shape the guide like an airfoil without shortening it. Increases flow, same durability.

PS, what kind of head are you taking off?

You can also put the guide in a lathe and cut a taper on the end......it's all more work than it's worth to me ;)

I'm taking off a mildly ported G head :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

gotta save something for "The 9.99 Upgrade Is Coming Along!" Thread right?? :)

[gasketmaster]

gotta save something for "The 9.99 Upgrade Is Coming Along!" Thread right?? :)

I got that one covered :thumb:

Just add more :nx:

[boost geek]

You can also put the guide in a lathe and cut a taper on the end......it's all more work than it's worth to me ;)

I'm taking off a mildly ported G head :)

You're doing 11s in a van on a mildly ported G head? You really do know your sh*t!!!:hail:

[Dave]

If we had a 3bar calibration we would've been deep in the 12's at the beginning of the season. This MAP bleed BS isn't working too great. :banghead:

Terry are you doing some more fine tuning next year? Hell are you ever going to install a wideband?? ;)

[turbovanman²]

If we had a 3bar calibration we would've been deep in the 12's at the beginning of the season. This MAP bleed BS isn't working too great. :banghead:

Terry are you doing some more fine tuning next year? Hell are you ever going to install a wideband?? ;)

Sure you would, ;) You should know by now its not easy getting a minivan into the 12's, :o

And everyone says you need a wideband to go fast, :confused: :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

If we had a 3bar calibration we would've been deep in the 12's at the beginning of the season. This MAP bleed BS isn't working too great. :banghead:


So what does it run?

and map bleed cars have run 11's or better...

[turbovanman²]

So what does it run?

and map bleed cars have run 11's or better...

I think his best was 13.4 or 13.5 ish.

[Shadow]

I bled my 3 bar to 11.09@132mph before going to the 4 bar. Although, that was with 72lb inj's. So I needed to lean it out anyways!

[gasketmaster]

If we had a 3bar calibration we would've been deep in the 12's at the beginning of the season. This MAP bleed BS isn't working too great. :banghead:

Terry are you doing some more fine tuning next year? Hell are you ever going to install a wideband?? ;)

I ran 12.91@104.7 with the map bleed but I had to ground the injectors to turn them on wide open at 20 psi to get there! LOL! You're adding extra fuel by way of alky so you should be able to get there without grounding the injectors :nod:

I'll probably end up putting in a wideband this year for a few reasons ;)

[gasketmaster]

I bled my 3 bar to 11.09@132mph before going to the 4 bar. Although, that was with 72lb inj's. So I needed to lean it out anyways!

What cal were you running?

[Shadow]

What cal were you running?

I started with a FWD stage 5 3 bar smec, then changed to a cal from a tuner that could change things locally for me, then I switched back to the FWD stage 5 with 4 bar map and got rid of the bleed.

[t3rse]

If we had a 3bar calibration we would've been deep in the 12's at the beginning of the season. This MAP bleed BS isn't working too great. :banghead:


sheiit...homie pleeze. If I had blah blah I'd run 8s.

[cordes]

sheiit...homie pleeze. If I had blah blah I'd run 8s.

You have been on fire this week. :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

The port work is done! :)

All that's left is figuring out the final compression ratio and giving it a hair cut accordingly ;)

Then it's ready to assemble :eyebrows:


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3974.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3978.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN3980.jpg

[blk86trbo]

Looks nice!

[rx2mazda]

Looks nice!

understatement of the week:hail:

[2.216VTurbo]

Meh, it looks OK...


















JK, those are some VERY nice ports and chambers:hail: Any plan to do some flow numbers or do you just prefer to get your numbers strait from the track:thumb:?

[gasketmaster]

Meh, it looks OK...


















JK, those are some VERY nice ports and chambers:hail: Any plan to do some flow numbers or do you just prefer to get your numbers strait from the track:thumb:?

I'm not expecting any huge numbers on the bench so I don't think I'll mess with it......I think the runner volume will pay off when pressure is applied :thumb:

The intake is next......stay tuned :)

[omni_840]

Wow! I can't believe I missed this thread, everything looks nice:nod:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm not expecting any huge numbers on the bench so I don't think I'll mess with it......I think the runner volume will pay off when pressure is applied :thumb:

The intake is next......stay tuned :)

I machined up the 52-58mm TB adapter today Terry. You'll have to blend it to the 58mm Plate i'll send you unless you want me to have Rob do it before I send them? The machine wouldn't let me shove the chamfer cutter down the hole to machine them so they match GRRRR. I just need to clearance it so the TB bracketry clears. I hope to get to that tomorrow or Monday. So don't weld that thing up yet.

[gasketmaster]

I machined up the 52-58mm TB adapter today Terry. You'll have to blend it to the 58mm Plate i'll send you unless you want me to have Rob do it before I send them? The machine wouldn't let me shove the chamfer cutter down the hole to machine them so they match GRRRR. I just need to clearance it so the TB bracketry clears. I hope to get to that tomorrow or Monday. So don't weld that thing up yet.

Cool.....I'll blend it here ;)

We gotta weld up the lower and grind on it before the plenum gets the dust blown off of it :D

Thanks a bunch Jay :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Which cam, my S60 roller or stocker or ?

[ohiorob]

Looking good :thumb:and very nice work. what about the short block . is it together?

your tranny should hold up fine.;)

are you going to be the first to have a roll bar in a mini van ? :hail::hail:

[gasketmaster]

Which cam, my S60 roller or stocker or ?

I'm setting up the valvetrain so either cam can be used ;)

I plan on starting with the stocker and changing up as I go so we can see the results first hand :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

Looking good :thumb:and very nice work. what about the short block . is it together?

your tranny should hold up fine.;)

are you going to be the first to have a roll bar in a mini van ? :hail::hail:

Thanks Rob!

The shortblock is all done with forged pistons and ARP fasteners :D

I hope the tranny holds up.....it's been trouble free so far :thumb:

Hopefully the mini will need a bar in the spring :eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

I'm setting up the valvetrain so either cam can be used ;)

I plan on starting with the stocker and changing up as I go so we can see the results first hand :thumb:

To quote Mr Burns, "excellent" :D

[GLHNSLHT2]

Terry PM me your Email and Street Addy so I can get this stuff mailed to you.

[Dave]

I ran 12.91@104.7 with the map bleed but I had to ground the injectors to turn them on wide open at 20 psi to get there! LOL! You're adding extra fuel by way of alky so you should be able to get there without grounding the injectors :nod:

I'll probably end up putting in a wideband this year for a few reasons ;)

By "grounding" the injectors, do you mean running full on time? Meaning 100% duty cycle? That's soooo inefficient but it's okay because it's in a van! :hail:

[gasketmaster]

By "grounding" the injectors, do you mean running full on time? Meaning 100% duty cycle? That's soooo inefficient but it's okay because it's in a van! :hail:

Yes....wide open :D

It richened the WOT mixture up which allowed the boost to be turned up higher ;)

I just grounded the injectors through a Hobbs switch above 20 psi......it worked awesome :eyebrows:

[Reaper1]

There's some nice work in this thread for sure! :thumb:

Good luck on the 10.99...I'd LOVE to show that video off to a ton of people!! :D

[GLHNSLHT2]

Terry there should be something in the mail for you today or tomorrow.

[Dave]

Yes....wide open :D

It richened the WOT mixture up which allowed the boost to be turned up higher ;)

I just grounded the injectors through a Hobbs switch above 20 psi......it worked awesome :eyebrows:

Sweet Jesus, man... I can see by your winky that you know you should be scolded for doing something like that, so I'll forgive you. What size injectors are you bumping up to this year?? 96pph?

[gasketmaster]

Sweet Jesus, man... I can see by your winky that you know you should be scolded for doing something like that, so I'll forgive you. What size injectors are you bumping up to this year?? 96pph?

Dude we ran extra injectors wide open all the time on GN's back in the day :thumb:

You couldn't get a cal to run larger injectors worth a cr@p back then! LOL!

Everybody says injectors burn up if you don't pulse them.......BS! We did it all the time.....the fuel flowing through them keeps them cool :nod:

I'll be starting out with my +40's and moving on to 75's when somebody offers a cal that works as well as Gary's :)

[Dave]

Dude we ran extra injectors wide open all the time on GN's back in the day :thumb:

You couldn't get a cal to run larger injectors worth a cr@p back then! LOL!

Everybody says injectors burn up if you don't pulse them.......BS! We did it all the time.....the fuel flowing through them keeps them cool :nod:

I'll be starting out with my +40's and moving on to 75's when somebody offers a cal that works as well as Gary's :)

The problem isn't burning the injectors up. It's running the risk of them not closing after being on for a long period of time. Theyre not designed to run more than 85% duty cycle.

I would not recommend depending on the CAL for injector control. Have you considered an SAFC II? And/or a 1:3 rising rate fuel pressure regulator?

Not knocking you, I love what you're doing. I just don't want to see any problems with this beast. :thumb:

[John B]

Who is doing the head work?

[cordes]

I would not recommend depending on the CAL for injector control. Have you considered an SAFC II? And/or a 1:3 rising rate fuel pressure regulator?



Are you kidding me? A rising rate reg and a piggy back? Did you type that post up on a commodore? I have a rotary phone and I wouldn't recommend running a RRR. :confused:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Who is doing the head work?

Read page 1

[GLHNSLHT2]

Dave, I've seen Terry tune a FAST equipped Turbo V8 to 1100+hp on the dyno. I think he'll do ok with what he knows.

[Dave]

Dave, I've seen Terry tune a FAST equipped Turbo V8 to 1100+hp on the dyno. I think he'll do ok with what he knows.

Not questioning that. FAST is a very user friendly system, so that's a poor example. I'm not arguing that, I know he's good.


Are you kidding me? A rising rate reg and a piggy back? Did you type that post up on a commodore? I have a rotary phone and I wouldn't recommend running a RRR. :confused:

He claimed the injector driver in the ECU was inadequate for his setup. This is the next best solution. I seem to recall OhioRob runs 10 flat at over 140mph with a rising rate. :confused: Wonder how that works.

This is the largest reason I half way left the Turbo Dodge world, no one looks outside to what the aftermarket is doing.

[BadAssPerformance]

RRR can add fuel but its not the best way to do it... this is because at higher fuel pressure, flow is sacrificed so not as much fuel is being added.

Hahn Racecraft's Neon went 10's 10-12 years ago with a RRR until DFI was installed and then was deleted.

[Dave]

RRR can add fuel but its not the best way to do it... this is because at higher fuel pressure, flow is sacrificed so not as much fuel is being added.

Hahn Racecraft's Neon went 10's 10-12 years ago with a RRR until DFI was installed and then was deleted.

Exactly, which is why I first recommended a piggy back. An SAFC controller is a fine way of doing it. In fact AEM's Fuel/Ignition Controller is an even better choice is it's capable of altering multiple inputs.

[Speedeuphoria]

I hope your aware that piggy backs dont add fuel on our applications, they can only alter map sensor voltage which gives more timing and pulls fuel

[John B]

Read page 1

So he's doing the work himself?

[ohiorob]

I seem to recall OhioRob runs 10 flat at over 140mph with a rising rate. :confused: Wonder how that works.

sorry Bryen but you got that wrong. In 03 was the first year for the 2.4 in my charger. 2.2 mopar performance computer, a bleed for the map, RRR and A 50 shot. 10.90's was the best I got with that setup. the thing was a pain to tune of corse and you alwas had to fool around with the RRR. the next year a got a cal. from Cindy and been running that ever since :thumb:

[t3rse]

This is the largest reason I half way left the Turbo Dodge world, no one looks outside to what the aftermarket is doing.

You left the TD world because you have no idea what are doing and unlike most markets you can't go out and buy a money setup off ebay. The issue here is that you are in no position to be offering advice or condemning your superiors.

[Dave]

I hope your aware that piggy backs dont add fuel on our applications, they can only alter map sensor voltage which gives more timing and pulls fuel

Which is why you would use one on bigger injectors. It's designed to alter the pulse width under all driving conditions. The AEM F/IC actually intercepts the positive wiring on the injectors themselves, as well as MAP and coils among many other inputs and outputs.


I seem to recall OhioRob runs 10 flat at over 140mph with a rising rate. :confused: Wonder how that works.

sorry Bryen but you got that wrong. In 03 was the first year for the 2.4 in my charger. 2.2 mopar performance computer, a bleed for the map, RRR and A 50 shot. 10.90's was the best I got with that setup. the thing was a pain to tune of corse and you alwas had to fool around with the RRR. the next year a got a cal. from Cindy and been running that ever since :thumb:

I knew you were using one, I wasn't aware you got rid of it. So, I restate it then... 10.90's on a RRR.


You left the TD world because you have no idea what are doing and unlike most markets you can't go out and buy a money setup off ebay. The issue here is that you are in no position to be offering advice or condemning your superiors.

You know that makes me laugh. You know nothing about me to make those judgements. What I offered Terry WILL work. You must pull the injector pulse width when using larger injectors. The ECU will do this both ways up to 35%. Now when using a piggy back you are now able to alter that signal to make the injectors deliver a certain mass under a certain condition to make them act like factory injectors with the STFT remaining at 0. Do you understand what that means? Or like others are you pretending and just hating on recommendations because, again, not many on here use piggy backs. There's a reason they are still on the market, they work. There just not the easiest to use over other options.

Also, if you asked questions instead of ignorantly going about making assumptions you would know I'm not buying a kit for my VW. I build my own sh*t, I don't buy it.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo328/Boostedminivan/vw%20gti/DSC01120.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo328/Boostedminivan/vw%20gti/DSC01110.jpg

I've been around turbos long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Right I don't know what I'm doing... I've built my dad's van, I've built my daily driver Acclaim that traps 100mph every day on the street.

If this is turning into a pissing match, then let me piss. Any idea what's the fastest effective volumetric speed in the intake charge? Any idea what proper taper angles provide the least amount of low pressure areas? I do... I've done my homework, I've completely read Maximum Boost and Street Turbocharging back to front. I have my experience, I need to make no other testimonals to prove I'm smarter than you think. I don't suppose working in the Summit Racing Sales Department has nothing to do with my knowledge? :rolleyes:

[gasketmaster]

Who is doing the head work?

Hey John :)

My buddy Tom from T-Mac Performance did the portwork and related machine work ;)

[gasketmaster]

Not questioning that. FAST is a very user friendly system, so that's a poor example.

Ask Corby how user friendly his system is :D

[gasketmaster]

He claimed the injector driver in the ECU was inadequate for his setup. This is the next best solution. I seem to recall OhioRob runs 10 flat at over 140mph with a rising rate. :confused: Wonder how that works.

This is the largest reason I half way left the Turbo Dodge world, no one looks outside to what the aftermarket is doing.

Hey Bryan.......you ARE a valued member of the TD world my friend :)

I had ran my combo out of fuel......I already had a RRR on the van at that time. I figured that the stock cal would give me no more injector duty cycle and that ended up being correct. I had dug up some info about grounding the injectors somewhere while doing some research so I tried it! I was running 13.30's. The extra fuel from the mod was enough to get me solidly in the 12's for the total cost of $20 :D

Yes........I AM a cheap TD guy :p

You can't tell me what I'm doing is wrong unless it isn't working well.....it's just a different way that maybe you don't agree with.....but it does work :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

Dave, I've seen Terry tune a FAST equipped Turbo V8 to 1100+hp on the dyno. I think he'll do ok with what he knows.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Jay........I'll try to do us proud ;)

PS - got the stuff Thank You! :clap:

[gasketmaster]

Exactly, which is why I first recommended a piggy back. An SAFC controller is a fine way of doing it. In fact AEM's Fuel/Ignition Controller is an even better choice is it's capable of altering multiple inputs.

How old were you in 1990??? :)

Back then we were pushing the performance envelope on turbo Buicks faster than the people making cals could keep up. There were no piggy back systems or auxilary injector drivers and DFI units were expensive and very user not-so-friendly! LOL! So we just added injectors to the up pipe and PRESTO.....we were the big swingin' uh "guys" on the block! LOL! It worked FLAWLESSLY I might add even though we had to hear that it wouldn't work from everybody.....and see.....it's still happening to this day! LOL!
That was thinking out of the box back then.....doing what you had to do to get it done ;) With that combo I was able to have what was written up as the fastest stock block GN on the West coast ;)

If I was to go away from a stock type cal I would just move to the FAST XFI at this point.....but as a cheap TD guy it's hard for me to spend that much $$$ on a van that costed me $150 :D

[8valves]

Ask Corby how user friendly his system is :D

Ha! :lol:

More important than a user friendly standalone is if you have a standalone friendly user. :)

[8valves]

Also, if you asked questions instead of ignorantly going about making assumptions you would know I'm not buying a kit for my VW. I build my own sh*t, I don't buy it.

I've been around turbos long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Right I don't know what I'm doing... I've built my dad's van, I've built my daily driver Acclaim that traps 100mph every day on the street.

If this is turning into a pissing match, then let me piss. Any idea what's the fastest effective volumetric speed in the intake charge? Any idea what proper taper angles provide the least amount of low pressure areas? I do... I've done my homework, I've completely read Maximum Boost and Street Turbocharging back to front. I have my experience, I need to make no other testimonals to prove I'm smarter than you think. I don't suppose working in the Summit Racing Sales Department has nothing to do with my knowledge? :rolleyes:

Easy Bryan. Take it from someone who is near your age group and did the automotive school regime as well; being humble will let you learn a lot more than telling everyone you already know.

Books are just that, books. Theory is nothing but guesses until you test the crap out of it and have some backing proof. Don't start going down the road of thinking that reading something makes you an expert, please.

[BadAssPerformance]

Ha! :lol:

More important than a user friendly standalone is if you have a standalone friendly user. :)

Exactly... FAST is user friendly, I promise! :D


Easy Bryan. Take it from someone who is near your age group and did the automotive school regime as well; being humble will let you learn a lot more than telling everyone you already know.

Books are just that, books. Theory is nothing but guesses until you test the crap out of it and have some backing proof. Don't start going down the road of thinking that reading something makes you an expert, please.

Good advise :clap:

[BIG PSI]

I will say this, I have been playing with Turbo Mopars for awhile and still have NO IDEA......
I either have Bryan or Rob do the wrenching. I am just here to go fast and have *fun* in a BOX.

Terry you still are MY IDOL.

Chuck

[t3rse]

Easy Bryan. Take it from someone who is near your age group and did the automotive school regime as well; being humble will let you learn a lot more than telling everyone you already know.

Books are just that, books. Theory is nothing but guesses until you test the crap out of it and have some backing proof. Don't start going down the road of thinking that reading something makes you an expert, please.

:nod:....:clap:

[turbovanman²]

Everybody says injectors burn up if you don't pulse them.......BS! We did it all the time.....the fuel flowing through them keeps them cool :nod:


I agree, :nod:



How old were you in 1990??? :)

Back then we were pushing the performance envelope on turbo Buicks faster than the people making cals could keep up. There were no piggy back systems or auxilary injector drivers and DFI units were expensive and very user not-so-friendly! LOL! So we just added injectors to the up pipe and PRESTO.....we were the big swingin' uh "guys" on the block! LOL! It worked FLAWLESSLY I might add even though we had to hear that it wouldn't work from everybody.....and see.....it's still happening to this day! LOL!
That was thinking out of the box back then.....doing what you had to do to get it done ;) With that combo I was able to have what was written up as the fastest stock block GN on the West coast ;)

If I was to go away from a stock type cal I would just move to the FAST XFI at this point.....but as a cheap TD guy it's hard for me to spend that much $$$ on a van that costed me $150 :D

I am still learning and I don't think I will ever know it all or half as much as you but thats how I started, map bleeds and 3 cold starts, wasn't refined but it worked, :clap: It took me 5 years to get my van in the 12's, :(


Easy Bryan. Take it from someone who is near your age group and did the automotive school regime as well; being humble will let you learn a lot more than telling everyone you already know.

Books are just that, books. Theory is nothing but guesses until you test the crap out of it and have some backing proof. Don't start going down the road of thinking that reading something makes you an expert, please.

Agreed, look at all the theory on large plenums, small plenums, short/long runners blah blah blah, ;)

[Dave]

Easy Bryan. Take it from someone who is near your age group and did the automotive school regime as well; being humble will let you learn a lot more than telling everyone you already know.

Books are just that, books. Theory is nothing but guesses until you test the crap out of it and have some backing proof. Don't start going down the road of thinking that reading something makes you an expert, please.

I know, Aaron. It's offensive when one person puts down another's knowledge. True, I have never used a RRR or a piggy back, but I know it does work, I spend a huge part of my time just reading and asking questions, and then reading some more. Homework is 90% of the battle.

I'll be testing my intake manifold on my VR6 and all the theories developed into it.. I'm sure I'll be taking it back off and modifying it in some way or another once it gets running.

Terry, I'm not ripping on you at all. I want you to know that. I like you and I love what you're doing! I have no question you are one of the most experienced members on here. Sorry to detour this thread, how about some more pics of the engine? :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

It's all good Bryan.......I know you just wanted to help ;)

You and your dad are top notch in my book :thumb:

[gasketmaster]

I will say this, I have been playing with Turbo Mopars for awhile and still have NO IDEA......
I either have Bryan or Rob do the wrenching. I am just here to go fast and have *fun* in a BOX.

Terry you still are MY IDOL.

Chuck

Come on now.....your attention to detail is award winning :thumb:

IDOL? I'm afraid if the sun rose and set from my backside.......we'd be in constant solar eclipse :D

[The Pope]

People like different things but everyone loves a fast mini. Did you have Jay machine the 58 to a 58 for the test so your not going from a 52 to a 54 mm TB? That 655 sure looks a lot better than the last time I saw it on the floor in your shop lol. Are you going to get rid of those 1.22 transfer gears now?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Nope, I don't think terry even has a 58 TB yet.

[gasketmaster]

People like different things but everyone loves a fast mini. Did you have Jay machine the 58 to a 58 for the test so your not going from a 52 to a 54 mm TB? That 655 sure looks a lot better than the last time I saw it on the floor in your shop lol. Are you going to get rid of those 1.22 transfer gears now?

I only have a 52 but Jay made a sweet adaptor that allows me to change up in the future :thumb:

Yeah...that 655 was kinda heavy......so I had it lightened up a bit :D

I had gone away from the 1.22's awhile back.....got the stockers back in there now......the sixty foot improved a bunch :nod:

[gasketmaster]

Nope, I don't think terry even has a 58 TB yet.

You are correct sir :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

if/when you get one send it to me and I'll make it a true 58 instead of necking down to 54 then opening back up to 58 just before the throttle blade.

[boost geek]

Did you get any flow numbers on that head, I'm kinda curious to see how it makes out, as I picked up a 655 last weekend.:p

[1984rampage]

Ya Im curious about how the 655 flows too! Are you gonna have it flowed?

[gasketmaster]

Todd Nelson said he would flow it for me :thumb:

It would probably cost about 100 bucks with shipping and everything.

I'm not sure I want to spring for it since I really don't see the head producing any monster numbers on the flow bench.

I think the 655 will shine under boost on the vehicle due to it's gianormous intake port volume......I hope :D

[8valves]

Todd Nelson said he would flow it for me :thumb:

It would probably cost about 100 bucks with shipping and everything.

I'm not sure I want to spring for it since I really don't see the head producing any monster numbers on the flow bench.

I think the 655 will shine under boost on the vehicle due to it's gianormous intake port volume......I hope :D

You might be surprised! The intake port on my head actually puts up a decent number. The exhaust, not anything stellar, but it worked WAY better on the car compared to the exhaust port setup, even though it "flowed" 15 less cfm. :p

[gasketmaster]

You might be surprised! The intake port on my head actually puts up a decent number. The exhaust, not anything stellar, but it worked WAY better on the car compared to the exhaust port setup, even though it "flowed" 15 less cfm. :p

While I AM curious about the flow numbers.......I'm just not sure if I'm 100 dollars worth of curious :D

[The Pope]

Todd Nelson said he would flow it for me :thumb:

It would probably cost about 100 bucks with shipping and everything.

I'm not sure I want to spring for it since I really don't see the head producing any monster numbers on the flow bench.

I think the 655 will shine under boost on the vehicle due to it's gianormous intake port volume......I hope :D

Intresting but the 655 came with an "emissions" bump in the floor like 70's heads. Right in an ugly place to hurt flow, smoothing the floor helps them. Also I here people run there mouth about how the 655 sucks because of no inside radius. When comparted to a 782 the 655 has over 1/8" taller inside radius with the floor cut down farther at the gasket.

Like a big plenum or no plenum, or short runners or long runners you can have the same CFM flow # but it doesn't mean they'll work the same with boost. The thing is going to be a riot to watch :clap:

[Directconnection]

Todd Nelson said he would flow it for me :thumb:

It would probably cost about 100 bucks with shipping and everything.

I'm not sure I want to spring for it since I really don't see the head producing any monster numbers on the flow bench.

I think the 655 will shine under boost on the vehicle due to it's gianormous intake port volume......I hope :D

If you choose not to have Todd flow it, I can for you for no charge... but shipping.

[boost geek]

Intresting but the 655 came with an "emissions" bump in the floor like 70's heads. Right in an ugly place to hurt flow, smoothing the floor helps them. Also I here people run there mouth about how the 655 sucks because of no inside radius. When comparted to a 782 the 655 has over 1/8" taller inside radius with the floor cut down farther at the gasket.

Like a big plenum or no plenum, or short runners or long runners you can have the same CFM flow # but it doesn't mean they'll work the same with boost. The thing is going to be a riot to watch :clap:

I was just wondering, are you talking about the intake or exhaust ports? If it's the intakes, I have no idea where the bumps in the floor would be. The exhausts are a different story story, they are very flat compared to a 445 or a 287/ (sorry, I don't have any 782 heads, don't use them.) Assuming it's the exhaust, the hump rises to about 1.02", or about 26mm from the head gasket surface on a 665 head. On a 287 head the difference is about 1.30", or about 33 mm. If it's the intake, I wouldn't know how to tell because the ports are so different.
I have a 445 head opened up similar to a 655 head. The exhaust floors 445 are higher than the 655, about 1.13", or 28.5mm compared to the 665 at 1.01", or 25.8mm. The 445 head was not ported by me, so I don't know how much of the floor has been removed. Here is a pic of the 2 side by side, 445 on the left, 655 on the right. You will notice a long valve guide on the left, don't know why it's there...:confused2:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2518.jpg

Now as you can see, the head on the right, the 655 head,, has ports that are farther away from the h.g. surface. From the h.g. surface to the center of the first exhaust manifold stud is about .75", or 19 mm on the 655 head. On the 445 head, and 287, it's about 0.7", or 17.5 mm. I'm at a loss at which head would be better. The 655 has bowls which are larger than the valves, would probably make a good candidate oir the 44 mm big valves. The pic below is a stock 655 which was just cleaned up with emery cloth for the pic.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2509.jpg

Don't laugh about the Fred Flintstone port job, but this is the 445 head, pretty much smooth up to the valve seat. Would this port not breath easier?

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2515.jpg

Here's the 445.


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2516.jpg

And the 655.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2517.jpg

For those of you who might want to try the 655 head ports, but don't have the head, a 445 will have enough material to handle a oval port job with out hitting water jackets. I wish we just had some flow numbers, I dont want to weld and port my 2 piece intake until I know it will be worth it.;)

So, which head is the better one? I myself don't know, I'll leave it to you gurus...:)

[The Pope]

what I notice with the 655 is bowl size. With all the heads I've ported they all had a nice big bowl and just needed cleaning and a little enlarging. I was comparing the 655 to the 782. The 782 has a dip where it should have a hump in the floor on the intakes short turn. Next thing I tried was just match porting the 655. With a very nice bowl the exhaust picked up 15% more flow just match porting. The old man stuck his nose up at me for thinking it would increase with a match port "as that really doesn't do much". He was disturbed with the 655 lol. Your 655 doesn't show the emissions bump I spoke of, not sure why. I couldn't see it that well untill I hit the floor with the dewalt. Then it showed up fast.

The big thing I love is the bowls and how fast the head takes to big valves like it should have come with them. Then there is VERY LITTLE porting to do. A 655 is a cake walk that ends quikly. I can completely do a head in 1 hour. A 445 done that far takes me over 4 hours. I would mention how long it takes to do a 782 right but I get sick when I think of it. The hardest part of a 655 build is the intake to feed the beast. You have to weld up the lower piece, then hog is out thin. Then I scotch bright port the runners full length and enlarge them. Then polish them like crome. The plenum side is brought out to the gasket into a funnel for the custom plenum. Then the plenum work and the 58mm TB work. Lastly the custom FWD fuel rail to top it off. After the time spent on the intake it is nice to run through the head.

[Reaper1]

Doing some eyeball measuring with the provided pictures above I noticed a few things. #1 is that even though the floor of the port opening is definatly lower on one head than the other, the manifold bolts are located in the same places and the port roof is around the same height. #2 is that there seems to be a lot of focus on the floor height in the exhaust port. To me that makes very little sense. Why? Well, while it is true the exhaust gasses are expanding while exiting the port, the area where this makes the most impact is the short turn radius and the roof turn and angle. After that point the roof has more impact on the flow than the floor becuase of how the gasses will be acting(it has inertia and will tend to try to keep going its origional direction...up). To back up this claim a few years ago this discussion about what would happen if the floor were filled so the gasses didn't have to make much more than a 90* turn and to keep the velocity up. A very well known person who had access to a flow bench and very good knowledge of our heads filled and exhaust port with clay and flowed a head. The result was a small improvement in flow deemed not worthy of the expense it would take to do the modification propperly. Now, of course this doesn't prove whether this modification would have any effect on overall engine performance, but based on that first test most people probably would not persue it to find out.

So, with all that being said IMHO port shape and volume are the design constraints that should be mainly considered and with the roof being of more concern than the floor height. The radius of the roof, and to a lesser extent the severity of the short turn radius. Now, the height of the STR will determine the minimal cross sectional area and the location of that point. Those two things can have a large impact on the flow potential of the port. Due to the turbocharger it is hard to determine the exact pressure, temperature, and velocity to design the port for. This makes it hard to figure out what the exact minimal cross sectional are should be, but I would think that making sure that the port could sustain 80% of the intake charge flow would be a good starting point....

Input welcome...

[boost geek]

I just measured again, the intake/exhaust manifold studs/bolts sit 1.5 mm farther away from the deck surface on a 655 compared to a 445.

[Reaper1]

OK, so the roofs of the ports on the 655 head are slightly higher. I could be completely wrong here, but 1.5mm, IMHO, is not going to make a huge flow difference. Heck, I think there are casting flaws that are larger than that! I'd be interested to know what the port volumes are(unmolested). Clearly one is going to be larger than the other, so the other measurement would have to be the minimal cross section area and/or possibly the maximum height of the STR.

[turbovanman²]

From what I've read and my experience with racing motorcycles, is the straighter the port, the better. Just look at any newish bike, you can see right into the chamber. :D

[Reaper1]

^^^I agree with you, Simon. However, I honestly can't see 1.5mm at the port opening making that big a difference. It *might* make a difference if that trend were carried all the way through the port, but as I said, there are casting flaws that are bigger than that amount!

[WalkingSoftly]

Im subscribing this thread. Can't wait to see more!

[R/Tony]

Subscribed :D

[1984rampage]

Updates? Flow bench?!

[Dave]

Pics??? More pics?

[gasketmaster]

The head is finished :nod:

I've decided not to flow it.....I'll let the track results tell the story :D

The lower intake is in the mill.....I'll post pictures of the progress along the way :eyebrows:

[GLHNSLHT2]

The head is finished :nod:

I've decided not to flow it.....I'll let the track results tell the story :D

The lower intake is in the mill.....I'll post pictures of the progress along the way :eyebrows:


I want to see pics of this lower piece IN THE MILL!!! Even if you have to email them to me privately. :)

[gasketmaster]

I want to see pics of this lower piece IN THE MILL!!! Even if you have to email them to me privately. :)

I'll see what I can do! :thumb:

[Dave]

I'll see what I can do! :thumb:

Any pics yet? ;)

[Dave]

Any update? Other than the head what else is new this season?

[8valves]

Any update? Other than the head what else is new this season?

Sounds like someone is trying to size up the competition! :eyebrows:

[gvare001]

I can't wait to see what the 655 can do. :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Sounds like someone is trying to size up the competition! :eyebrows:

Key word "trying" ;)

[8valves]

Key word "trying" ;)

OOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!! JT want to show Bryan what the 5 fingers had to say to the face! :D

[turbovanman²]

OOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!! JT want to show Bryan what the 5 fingers had to say to the face! :D

Talk to the hand?????? :nod: :lol:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Hate to say it but I think Dave is a ways off from catching Terry.

[turbovanman²]

Hate to say it but I think Dave is a ways off from catching Terry.

Yep, and me too, :( but then I am not trying too either.

[Dave]

Sounds like someone is trying to size up the competition! :eyebrows:

Nah... we have no interest in going 10's. I trapped 103 a few times 2 years ago and that was scary enough in a van on slicks. I can't imagine going faster than 115.

BTW, answer my PM!!!


Hate to say it but I think Dave is a ways off from catching Terry.

We haven't even ran the new setup last year. We're changing more again this year, so I couldn't tell you how close or how far away we are. If everything goes well we'll know more in late March.

[Rampage16V]

This is great Terry ...I can't wait to hear how it goes in the spring!

[gasketmaster]

This is great Terry ...I can't wait to hear how it goes in the spring!

Thanks Dean :)

[gasketmaster]

I HAVE gotten a little bit more done :thumb:




on my Mustang! lol :eyebrows:



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSC_0081.jpg

[turbovanman²]

Thats right, keep working on the Mustang, :p

[gasketmaster]

Thats right, keep working on the Mustang, :p

When you get down below 12.40.......I'll start wrenching again :p:p:p

[turbovanman²]

When you get down below 12.40.......I'll start wrenching again :p:p:p

Ouch, :mecry:

[Dave]

:drool : What kind of carb is on that beast? ;) :drool:

[gasketmaster]

:drool : What kind of carb is on that beast? ;) :drool:

That's just an old carb used to build the plumbing :)

I have a CSU 750 built for boost :eyebrows:

[gasketmaster]

Ouch, :mecry:


I'm just bustin' your sack Bro :p

You know that :D

[Dave]

So you never answered my question. What's the current setup like for this season?

[GLHNSLHT2]

When you get down below 12.40.......I'll start wrenching again :p:p:p

OH FU*$!!! It'll never get finished or worked on again!!!

[gasketmaster]

So you never answered my question. What's the current setup like for this season?


You mean for my minivan? :)

[gasketmaster]

OH FU*$!!! It'll never get finished or worked on again!!!


:lol::lol::lol:

[Dave]

You mean for my minivan? :)

yes, sir. ;)

[turbovanman²]

I'm just bustin' your sack Bro :p

You know that :D

Yeah, I know, its all good, :nod:

Better get your tool box ready, :lol:

[gasketmaster]

yes, sir. ;)

655 cylinder head pictured
fresh short block balanced with forged pistons and ARP fasteners
I have four cams to choose from
FM race converter reworked by PTC
ported stock exhaust manifold
welded and ported lower intake plumbed for a NOS fogger
Jay's upper intake
52 mm throttle body
upgraded turbo just haven't decided which one yet
fresh trans
thinking about upgrading my intercooler
Koni struts in front
75pph injectors
3 bar cal

I think that's about it :D

[Dave]

655 cylinder head pictured
fresh short block balanced with forged pistons and ARP fasteners
I have four cams to choose from
FM race converter reworked by PTC
ported stock exhaust manifold
welded and ported lower intake plumbed for a NOS fogger
Jay's upper intake
52 mm throttle body
upgraded turbo just haven't decided which one yet
fresh trans
thinking about upgrading my intercooler
Koni struts in front
75pph injectors
3 bar cal

I think that's about it :D

Who is Jay? Is it a big plenum or a worked 2 piece?

You're setup isn't going to be wildly different than ours, minus the extreme head work and your cam choice. We'll see how everything goes this year.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I made Terry's Plenum. He decided to port the lower half himself.

[Dave]

I made Terry's Plenum. He decided to port the lower half himself.

Is it big? ;)

[turbovanman²]

Is it big? ;)

Thats kinda personal isn't it? :confused: :o ;)

[boost geek]

Is it big? ;)

It will be when he gets his first 10.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Is it big? ;)

WTF? Look at page 1 or 2 like Terry said where it was.

[gasketmaster]

Who is Jay? Is it a big plenum or a worked 2 piece?

You're setup isn't going to be wildly different than ours, minus the extreme head work and your cam choice. We'll see how everything goes this year.


Our old setups were very similar too ;)

[Dave]

WTF? Look at page 1 or 2 like Terry said where it was.

Ah, must have missed it earlier. Sorry guys.

Any expected completion date, Terry?

[gasketmaster]

Ah, must have missed it earlier. Sorry guys.

Any expected completion date, Terry?

I'm thinking.......just before your van is finished :D:D:D :p

After all......the 11.70 bar is pretty easy to reach.......I think it needs to be raised :thumb:

LOL!

[BIG PSI]

I'm thinking.......just before your van is finished :D:D:D :p

After all......the 11.70 bar is pretty easy to reach.......I think it needs to be raised :thumb:

LOL!

I agree with Terry it is time for the Mini Vans to get some INK.
In fact I would love to see an article in a Car Magazine this year on his.
Once the 10.99 gets broken and the video and time slips are posted, things will happen, that you can count on.

Chuck

[Juggy]

It will be when he gets his first 10.


if 10s not "big enuff" then i pity the rest of us :lol:

nice setup btw! i picked up a top plenum too :eyebrows: and also ported the lower myself....got some pics of the job u did by any chance???

im gunnin for low mid-low 11s with my setup....as long as its fast enuff where i can say, yes it caged, and for a reason!! altho my car is alot more lighter and sleekier...seeing a big square box blowing past me would be very comical :hail:

[t3rse]

Our old setups were very similar too ;)

only two and a half seconds worth of difference...lol

[Dave]

only two and a half seconds worth of difference...lol

Ouch! :thumb: I was only on 21psi, btw... :eyebrows: Still pathetic.

[BIG PSI]

Ouch! :thumb: I was only on 21psi, btw... :eyebrows: Still pathetic.

You have to remember that when my son had the van it was on a LIMITED Financial Capabilities. Now that Dad owns it, things have changed.
Stay tuned

Chuck

[turbovanman²]

You have to remember that when my son had the van it was on a LIMITED Financial Capabilities. Now that Dad owns it, things have changed.
Stay tuned

Chuck

Oh we will, :nod: :clap:

[Dave]

This could be the start of the minivan vs minivan smack-talking thread. ;)

[turbovanman²]

This could be the start of the minivan vs minivan smack-talking thread. ;)

Your way behind, we've been smacking since he ran 11's, ;)

[Dave]

Your way behind, we've been smacking since he ran 11's, ;)

lol I need to catch back up then!:thumb:

[amoparacer]

May have to come out and see these van to van wars in person at the strip.

[gasketmaster]

lol I need to catch back up then!:thumb:

Bring it dancin' boy :D :p :p :p

[gasketmaster]

You have to remember that when my son had the van it was on a LIMITED Financial Capabilities. Now that Dad owns it, things have changed.
Stay tuned

Chuck

You also must remember that MY minivan has always been built using LIMITED Finances! Or maybe I've just been CHEAP when it comes to my minivan because I have other cars that I need to fund! LOL!

Now I've finally decided to spend a little money :D

This should be fun Chuck! It would be cool if you guys could have the record for a bit.......before I steal it back :D

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL! Some nice friendly competition is always good... :thumb: makes me wish I had a van to build :D

[boost geek]

I'd still like to see what Terry is gonna run for an intake. I have a 2 piece lower laying on the floor here, not sure what to do with it yet. Kinda thinking about a set of 16 valve runners off something, maybe I'll take a stroll around Pick a Part today...

[gasketmaster]

I'd still like to see what Terry is gonna run for an intake. I have a 2 piece lower laying on the floor here, not sure what to do with it yet. Kinda thinking about a set of 16 valve runners off something, maybe I'll take a stroll around Pick a Part today...

I'll post pictures as the work on the lower is being done......it's just sitting at the moment because my buddy that's doing the work got really busy :)

[turbovanman²]

LOL! Some nice friendly competition is always good... :thumb: makes me wish I had a van to build :D

I've got 2 vans without engines, :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Sweet, I'll stop by this afternoon and pic one up! :D

[turbovanman²]

Sweet, I'll stop by this afternoon and pic one up! :D

Excellent, :clap:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'd still like to see what Terry is gonna run for an intake. I have a 2 piece lower laying on the floor here, not sure what to do with it yet. Kinda thinking about a set of 16 valve runners off something, maybe I'll take a stroll around Pick a Part today...


View post #10. It's gonna look a lot like that.

[The Pope]

View post #10. It's gonna look a lot like that.

I think he means post #18 of the runners. Mine look like the ones in #18 but polished like crome 360 degrees the whole way.

[gasketmaster]

I think he means post #18 of the runners. Mine look like the ones in #18 but polished like crome 360 degrees the whole way.

Mine won't be looking like any of the ones pictured.......you'll see ;)

We're taking a little different approach :D

[boost geek]

I was thinking crossing something like this, with the first intake cut just behind where the injector bungs would be.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_2473.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1472.jpg

Or maybe use a 1 piece to use for the flange. I don't think I have the onions to chop my 2 piece up...:o

I sold this intake to bakes, would have to go track down another one. :banghead:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well get going Terry :)

[gasketmaster]

Well get going Terry :)

I usually take awhile to get motivated......then I GLH :p

[BIG PSI]

You also must remember that MY minivan has always been built using LIMITED Finances! Or maybe I've just been CHEAP when it comes to my minivan because I have other cars that I need to fund! LOL!

Now I've finally decided to spend a little money :D

This should be fun Chuck! It would be cool if you guys could have the record for a bit.......before I steal it back :D

I am going to try as hard as possible this year.
I doubt that we can go 11.75 but only time will tell.

I still need to get my FWD Performance Computer sorted out,
Pull the head for the new custom built T2 base Intake &
Install a custom built Tubular Header System
Roll Cage ----- 6 point with swing outs on both front doors
Fuel Cell with AN Fittings and Braided Steel Fuel Lines
[Picking up the new ZEX N20 System tomorrow]
Lexan Windows (back 5 pieces of glass)
Pair of Fiberglass Buckets
Pair of 5 Point Harnesses
------then wait for April and the tracks to open--------

I wish you the Very Best of breaking into the 10's this year
Your Friend
Chuck

[Dave]

I am going to try as hard as possible this year.
I doubt that we can go 11.75 but only time will tell.

I still need to get my FWD Performance Computer sorted out,
Pull the head for the new custom built T2 base Intake &
Install a custom built Tubular Header System
Roll Cage ----- 6 point with swing outs on both front doors
Fuel Cell with AN Fittings and Braided Steel Fuel Lines
[Picking up the new ZEX N20 System tomorrow]
Lexan Windows (back 5 pieces of glass)
Pair of Fiberglass Buckets
Pair of 5 Point Harnesses
------then wait for April and the tracks to open--------

I wish you the Very Best of breaking into the 10's this year
Your Friend
Chuck


WOOO!! In a van!! :love:

[Juggy]

I think he means post #18 of the runners. Mine look like the ones in #18 but polished like crome 360 degrees the whole way.


mine too :D altho im not running a 655 style intake port.

im guessing hes going to get the whole bottom of the intake welded so he can get the full size port throughout the runner to match his 655 style intake port. you only need to add material from the flange to where the bolts would sit, and he can remove them stupid humps as well :thumb:
i seen an ed peters 2 piece intake that was also welded on the top side to fill in the areas between the ports! dont know if that is really needed tho...its quite beefy there already.

the intake in post 18 appears to have some welding done to it, but by the looks of things it could have been welded up a bit more to open things up

[Kevin]

I like to tell myself I'm lurking in the corner waiting for a chance to snatch the fastest van flag so just think of some smack talk and pretend like I said it.

[BIG PSI]

I like to tell myself I'm lurking in the corner waiting for a chance to snatch the fastest van flag so just think of some smack talk and pretend like I said it.


Well Kevin you better start posting some pictures and some smack as well.
We both await to hear from the QUITE one.


Chuck


ps----lol

[Kevin]

Ehh, it's more fun if it comes out of nowhere :eyebrows:

11s would be impressive enough but 10s are really not in the cards at all... at this point I'll be content with 12s of any variety if it's faster than simon...

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r214/kevin_h1gg1ns/P6050164.jpg?t=1234199647
Nothing too special, it's pretty much stock. :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

11s would be impressive enough but 10s are really not in the cards at all... at this point I'll be content with 12s of any variety if it's faster than simon...


Hahahahaa, everyone picks on me, :(

Trust me, you get your first 12 and you'll go ballastic, as will the crowd, :D

Sigh, I remember that day like it was yesterday, :nod:

[OmniLuvr]

kevin, that intake looks different, the plenum looks crazy, is this for clearance reasons(wastegate) or something else. its hard to tell from the side view, are those custom runners too? if this intake is a secret, i understand, if not, some more pics, PLEASE.

[Kevin]

kevin, that intake looks different, the plenum looks crazy, is this for clearance reasons(wastegate) or something else. its hard to tell from the side view, are those custom runners too? if this intake is a secret, i understand, if not, some more pics, PLEASE.

I was worried about clearance issues between the back of the intake and the firewall... that's where the 2.5" pipe could fit on the side since it tapers down to like 2.25" at the top. Since it was being welded by someone else I didn't want to mess it up and have to take it back.

/thread jack... if everyone is terribly interested I may just make my own thread.

[turbovanman²]

I was worried about clearance issues between the back of the intake and the firewall... that's where the 2.5" pipe could fit on the side since it tapers down to like 2.25" at the top. Since it was being welded by someone else I didn't want to mess it up and have to take it back.

/thread jack... if everyone is terribly interested I may just make my own thread.

GO for it, :eyebrows:

Name that movie!!!!!!! :nod:

[ohiorob]

progress report :nod:

[gasketmaster]

progress report :nod:

Just starting to screw it all together......but Life keeps gettin' in the way :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

pics! intake especially :)

[gasketmaster]

Finally.....some progress :)

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN4186.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN4184.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r251/gasketmaster/DSCN4188.jpg

[Warren Stramer]

Looks like you are taking your time and doing it right. Looking forward to seeing the van demoralizing the competition again. we need more pics..........of the intake.

[Reaper1]

Wow, that's a nice head! Is it a 655? I noticed there is very little casting flash on it.

Also, why just head bolts? Just curious...

[gasketmaster]

Looks like you are taking your time and doing it right. Looking forward to seeing the van demoralizing the competition again. we need more pics..........of the intake.

Thanks Warren :)

Nice chatting with you :D

[gasketmaster]

Wow, that's a nice head! Is it a 655? I noticed there is very little casting flash on it.

Also, why just head bolts? Just curious...

Yes.....it's a 655 head ;)

I've had great luck with the Mopar Performance head bolts......"If it ain't broke....don't fix it!" :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

.."If it ain't broke....don't fix it!" :thumb:

So why are you rebuilding it, heh! ;) :lol: