Broken axle "caught" before it sheared off.

[Ondonti]

Axle didnt want to come out. Oops. I think I am going to look for another one cause even though I wont drag race the car till next April/May, it might break soon :(

I guess my last couple 1.7's didnt agree with the axle.
Its about to shear off :(

This is a 92+ p body saginaw, The best we have :(
Sorta depressing as I was thinking about going from 24.5x8 slicks to 26x10.
Does this mean I cant do that?

Im gonna go look for some 3.3 axles tomorrow at the close junkyard. Can i remove the weights on the auto axles?


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6738/img3688zoominvz6.jpg

[black86glhs]

Can you take the outer portions of the joints and have them heat treated? Otherwise, it may be time for high dollar ones.

[Ondonti]

To be safe, I pulled the passenger axle too. It was stuck, but only because it was binding on the differencial in a different place, not the splines. What ever you would call the smooth part.

Anyways the clearance on the differential bearings is WAY off so I guess when I am launching it twists and that is why the axle started to twist. Also probably why the engagement looks bad on the splines too.

This actually impresses me about the strength of the axles.

[Ondonti]

I dont really have the tools to remove the bearing to set the shim :(
I know I have to buy a new one cause it gets ruined in removal.
Hopefully my friend can help get that off and press on a new one.
I will have to measure how bad it is. Its pretty crazy loose....crap, I dont have shims though.

[RoadWarrior222]

One of the sites that has neon OBX diff conversion details has details of how to improv tools for the bearing pull.

Cut shims out of coke cans, rubbed clean on 400 grit, just keep stacking 'em until turning torque is right, use an old axle spline end welded or JB welded to a socket for testing turning torque.

[Ondonti]

I just realized I dont need to remove the bearing if its not damaged :P
I just need to get the clearance right.

[BadAssPerformance]

Wow, neat pic... are those just yield marks or are there visible cracks?

[RoadWarrior222]

What's real interesting about that is you see the snapped axle pic all the time with it broken at that neck and assume that it was the neck that gave out... it looks like you get a torsion fracture running into that neck there and the neck isn't actually the weak spot.

Doh, forget what I said about using an axle spline, you need to turn the whole diff carrier to test the turning torque, so need something that engages on the diff pin. Since the torque involved is just a few inch pounds you can probably just hose clamp a couple of bits of flat stock either side of an extension.

[ShadowFromHell]

coke cans for shims? are these people retarted? seriously... wow. Ive seen jeep axles do that before, so its not super uncommon. just be thankful that it didnt break, would have been a nightmare to get out otherwise.

[Ondonti]

Wow, neat pic... are those just yield marks or are there visible cracks?

Those are all cracks. The bright spots are where the splines started to "smush" but the dark lines are cracks.
I decided to zoom in on the pic so you guys could appreciate the carnage.

I have .052" clearance so +.008 = .060" shim.

My cam degree kit somes in handy for all sorts of things. I just bolt it to something and then adjust the arms till it sits on a surface that I want to measure. Did the same with the input shaft.

If I can get apart the extension housing and also find some shims, i am good.

Risen said that ford focus shims or escape transfer case shims would work. He used one of those but he didnt post the part numbers. Too bad.

I am going to try to find a .060" shim, Ill hit up a tranny shop too.

[BadAssPerformance]

Saginaw axle too? Damn... looks almost case hardened.

[turbovanman²]

I just set the preload to it has some resistance when turning it, of course, you have to remove the ring gear, :nod:

Neat pic of the axles, maybe time for the driveshaft shop.

Yes, you can remove the weights, they are just to dampen NVH for grampa.

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW I think the weights were an NVH fix for vibrations at 40-50 mph-ish. I never had a shortie side weight on my voyager, but when I graverobbed the axles out of another van it had the damper weight on. So I left it on when I put that axle in, thinking it would even up the rotational mass. I never had or noticed the NVH problems that it was intended for, but I had noticed some torque steer issues in the wet. I had worn suspension parts that had amplified that before, but even in really slick conditions now I can't even feel a hint of torque steer. So leaving them on might tame any issues you have with that slightly.

I was hearing recently that the least possible stress and least possible torque steer is cause on/by the axles when you have them as flat to the ground as possible. So with your diff issues fixed and fresh axles, if you arrange your suspension height to have the axles perfectly flat, then they may handle all you've got plus the bit more you tune in later.

[Ondonti]

So I bought a bearing race puller for $14 at harbor friend. i have to cut down the hooks so they can grab the race without hitting the oil slingers.

The Mopar Differential shims are Ns1 :(

So I went to ford and got part numbers and locations of some shims for a Ford Escape differential, but I dont know if those are the right size. I am getting a .020" and a .041" shim..well want but I am not getting. The fords exist but I would have to call dealers and I don't know if they would fit.

I went to the shop that I paid last time to try to get shims and after they told me they didnt have any and could help me, I showed them the Steel extension housing they supposedly shim'd before (carrying with me) and asked them how they shim'd that if they dont have parts, that I still had the receipt, and I was going to have a problem. I also mentioned that it looked like they didnt bother shimming my differential (but since I swapped the housings to a new trans its actually my fault) :P

So then the guy got all helpful and gave me the phone numbers too all 3 of his parts suppliers for standard transmissions. I dont know if that will do me any good though. They might have nothing or take 3 years to send me parts.

I dont feel scared about the bigger slicks now. The axles obviously are not meant to deal with that much slop in the differential. I thought maybe I was being too hard on the car but looks like improper install is the problem. I wish the shims were easier to get cause shims are EASY to measure for.

[turbovanman²]

Sonnax makes shims, I'll have to look it up.

[RoadWarrior222]

I don't get why they've gone NS1, same size axles and bearings in 31TH and 41TE applications that went on until '00 or '01 for the 31/413/670 and are still current. So I'm thinking that shims for those should be available and should fit.

When suggesting coke can, I thought you only needed a few thou, coke cans are 2-3 thou.

[Ondonti]

Well I cant remove the race. Bought a puller and its bending the arms, plus they cant hold onto the tiny lip on the race either.

What is the trick here?

[RoadWarrior222]

Shim should be under the bearing cup in the differential bearing retainer. i.e. the bit the axle comes out of that's bolted to the drivers side of the case.

[Ondonti]

Yeah, the picture in the FSM isnt accurate so it looked like the differential. I still cant get the bearing cup out though. How do i help it exit since its killing my puller.

[Ondonti]

Someone told me an air hammer and blow the hell out of the race from the backside, and replace it...but I dont want to replace the bearing too.

[RoadWarrior222]

I'd try heating up the bearing retainer, and hitting the cup with freezer spray.

For keeping the puller on the bearing, on one of the upgrade sites, I saw he was using a hose clamp around the puller arms. That won't work for the cup, but maybe wedging a socket in from underneath would help. You might be able to push against a deep reach socket while you tighten the puller too.

[Speedeuphoria]

Whats wrong with a hammer and flathead screwdriver to remove the race? Yes brass is best, but if you be careful it should be fine

[Ondonti]

I'd try heating up the bearing retainer, and hitting the cup with freezer spray.

For keeping the puller on the bearing, on one of the upgrade sites, I saw he was using a hose clamp around the puller arms. That won't work for the cup, but maybe wedging a socket in from underneath would help. You might be able to push against a deep reach socket while you tighten the puller too.

I put a larger washer on the cone that pushes out on the arms because they needed to move out more then the cone would allow.
The puller might already be head since it bent the arms a little and it slipped off one of the hooks ruining that edge. There isnt much of a lip to grab onto.

Time to hit it with hammers.

[RoadWarrior222]

Hard to see what the special tool does...
https://millerspecialtools.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=31&gid=1
In the FSM I'm looking at it looks like some combo of a pipe expander and a suspension bushing press.

[Ondonti]

Whats wrong with a hammer and flathead screwdriver to remove the race? Yes brass is best, but if you be careful it should be fine

Woot you rock. I didnt even have to hit it that hard. its my "chisel" screwdriver so its not sharp to cut anything up.
Came out easy. Just taped on 3 sides.

Bansheenut has a buddy who does differentials all the time so maybe he can get me the shims but if someone else could help me find my own that would rock!.

replacement/aftermarket parts or other platforms etc. I dont know if the Ford escape shims I part numbered will fit. .

[Speedeuphoria]

Now installing it is another matter, but still could be done with a hammer, but instead of a screwdriver/chisel I would suggest a pipe that is the exact size and use flat metal across the top and hit center to install it even, not sure if exhaust pipe would be "solid" enough. A press would be best.

For my auto trans, I made a couple exact size pipes on a lathe to install races.

[Ondonti]

I wish I had a vice. Someone said they liked to vice it between two brake pads. Nut sure that the brake pads are necessary but :P
We will see. if I cant get shims then I dont have to put it back together :D :(

I dont think it sounds good if I say I might need to go pipe shopping.

[black86glhs]

If you were in San Francisco, nobody would say a word.:nod:

[Ondonti]

If you were in San Francisco, nobody would say a word.:nod:
Notice that my post says "nut" instead of "not"

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/images/smilies/supergay.gif

[moparzrule]

To get the race out, a friend gave me this idea and it worked. You got a welder? Run a bead about 1'' along the race and it should heat it up enough to be able to pop it out. He said that for him the race just fell out, well mine must have been in there good because I had to run another bead along the other half and I had to pry it out but it did work.
Oh I just had a thought, that destroys the race LOL. Just try heating it then with atleast MAPP gas or if you have oxy/acetolene thats even better.
You can always pick up a new one, it's like $10-15 at napa or not sure if auto has it for the bearing/race.

Edit-Guess I didn't read far enough to see you got the race out :o

[Ondonti]

Yeah I got it out but now I cant get shims.

[RoadWarrior222]

I pressed a wheel bearing a while back with a 2.5" section of steel fence post, a couple of wooden blocks and sandwiched it all between a frame rail and my jack to press.

[Ondonti]

shims?
I went to a 4x4 shop and a dude gave me a stamped spacer that was near what I needed, then I sanded it till it was evenly thick on the micrometer (within .001") :P

Its about the right thickness (wont use the stock shim cause this one = stock shim + what I need). I wish I had some shims before I put this in.

[Ondonti]

Put that spacer in friday night.

Also got another Saginaw from a 3.3 for 10 bucks this afternoon.