water to air I/C's

[Mike_Shepard]

Okay I am curious as to who is running one and does anyone have some photo's?

[tsiconquest88]

Idk who is here but i know of a couple other types of cars using them. Personally i dont get why anyone would use them. My reasoning being this, I am confused as to how cool it actually would make anything being hot coolant is running through it. Your cooling the coolant by air i realize that but not by anything more than what you cool the coolant in your radiator to lol. For instance say ur engine is driving and running at a nice 160 degrees well the cooling passing through that intercooler is the same temp maybe a tad less but thats still not decent intake air temps. i dont know maybe im missing something with them but its just what i gathered from the things, i never actually read up on them and if anyone knows something correct me.

[Mopar318]

Idk who is here but i know of a couple other types of cars using them. Personally i dont get why anyone would use them. My reasoning being this, I am confused as to how cool it actually would make anything being hot coolant is running through it. Your cooling the coolant by air i realize that but not by anything more than what you cool the coolant in your radiator to lol. For instance say ur engine is driving and running at a nice 160 degrees well the cooling passing through that intercooler is the same temp maybe a tad less but thats still not decent intake air temps. i dont know maybe im missing something with them but its just what i gathered from the things, i never actually read up on them and if anyone knows something correct me.

Air-Water is actually ALOT more efficient than a Air-Air intercooler

In most cases, when you add one you run your coolant lines to a seperate heat exchanger, not through the engine and radiator. You can even run your heat exchanger in a Ice Box created temps way below ambient.

[tsiconquest88]

ah ok, gotcha, i didnt think of that but in that case u could stick with air/air and just use cryo2 setup or soemthing lol which cools the intercooler off exremely well.

[unluckyty]

It will be a separate system from your engine cooling. Having it's own upper and lower cac (charge air cooler) and an electric pump to recirculate the water/antifreeze mix. (antifreeze if needed) Usually charge temps stay 20-40 above ambient temps.

Greg

[8valves]

ah ok, gotcha, i didnt think of that but in that case u could stick with air/air and just use cryo2 setup or soemthing lol which cools the intercooler off exremely well.

There is great reason as to why anyone who is real fast with a forced induction car isn't on an air-air. A good air-water setup with a large resevoir filled with ice will allow charge air temps in the 40* F zone with an ambient of 80*.

[Mopar318]

There is great reason as to why anyone who is real fast with a forced induction car isn't on an air-air. A good air-water setup with a large resevoir filled with ice will allow charge air temps in the 40* F zone with an ambient of 80*.

Have you ever seen (cant remember the guys name now) Dry ice cooler. He got temps down to 100 below!:evil:

[8valves]

Have you ever seen (cant remember the guys name now) Dry ice cooler. He got temps down to 100 below!:evil:

No I haven't, sounds neat. We had kicked around some sort of idea like that at work, putting a couple of tubes through the water tank that could be filled with dry ice.

Can dry ice come in direct contact with water? I don't know the first thing about that stuff. The tubes through the box were to keep them seperated.

Also, what happens to the fuel when you try to spray it into sub zero temperatures? When does gasoline freeze instead of atomize?

[Mopar318]

No I haven't, sounds neat. We had kicked around some sort of idea like that at work, putting a couple of tubes through the water tank that could be filled with dry ice.

Can dry ice come in direct contact with water? I don't know the first thing about that stuff. The tubes through the box were to keep them seperated.

Also, what happens to the fuel when you try to spray it into sub zero temperatures? When does gasoline freeze instead of atomize?

I dont think they were using gasoline either. What the freezing point of alcohol? Its lower than water I know that for sure.

Its in one of my turbo charger hand books that someone is borrowing right now. Just when you lets someone borrow something you need it god damnit.

[Tony Hanna]

I ran across a system awhile back that would use the vehicle's AC to chill the coolant in a W/A setup below ambient. Pretty neat stuff. I wish I could find a link to it again.
While not the page I remember, it looks like the same idea: http://www.mr2beast.com/RAWIC.htm

Tony

[8valves]

I ran across a system awhile back that would use the vehicle's AC to chill the coolant in a W/A setup below ambient. Pretty neat stuff. I wish I could find a link to it again.
While not the page I remember, it looks like the same idea: http://www.mr2beast.com/RAWIC.htm

Tony

A system like that was used on the prototype next gen Lightning.

[Tony Hanna]

A system like that was used on the prototype next gen Lightning.

I saw that mentioned when I was searching for the site that I had found originally.:) I'm pretty sure the one I remember involved a GN and they were selling conversions, but I've had no luck finding it again.

[tsiconquest88]

Having it cool is fine but too cool u could split ur manifold in actuality or even crack a piston etc. Just like putting cold water in ur engine while running its the same prinicpal. I say this cus as far as what was said on temps 100 below are u talking 100 below 0? That would be trouble waiting to happen and sound more like something told as a story for talk than an actual done thing.

[cordes]

Can dry ice come in direct contact with water? I don't know the first thing about that stuff. The tubes through the box were to keep them seperated.

Also, what happens to the fuel when you try to spray it into sub zero temperatures? When does gasoline freeze instead of atomize?

It can come into contact with water, that is what makes the fog roll out of the punch bowl on Halloween. However, it cannot be in a sealed container like that due to the fact that the dry ice is sublimating at a very accelerated rate. A simple pressure relief would take care of that problem though.

The freezing point of gasoline will vary depending on octane additives etc. From my brief research, it would appear as though the higher the octane, the lower the freezing point. I would think that -100*F would be a very safe bet for 93 octane while unleaded race gas could get to -150*F.

Since dry ice is about -109*F I doubt that you will have a problem due to the inefficiencies in any system.

A couple more thoughts...

The sublimation process will slow down rapidly once the water gets cold.

The dry ice will eventually freeze a small quantity of water.

You might be better off running a coil of fuel line in a chest with just dry ice in it.

[bakes]

Dry ice comes in rice ,pellets and blocks I'm going to try the rice and pellet to see how well i work next season on my IC with 2 small 12v fans .

[8valves]

A couple more thoughts...

The sublimation process will slow down rapidly once the water gets cold.

The dry ice will eventually freeze a small quantity of water.

You might be better off running a coil of fuel line in a chest with just dry ice in it.

That last point is what I was trying to describe. I was going to run 1 1/2" tubes or so through the existing water tank that would have dry ice in them. No contact with the water, just the aluminum tube that would be throughout the box.

I wonder how long it would last, and how well it would transfer the heat from the water to the dry ice.

Interesting stuff.

[cordes]

That last point is what I was trying to describe. I was going to run 1 1/2" tubes or so through the existing water tank that would have dry ice in them. No contact with the water, just the aluminum tube that would be throughout the box.

I wonder how long it would last, and how well it would transfer the heat from the water to the dry ice.

Interesting stuff.

Last I was buying the stuff it was cheap enough to where you could get enough for the day easily. I have read that 50-100lbs. of the stuff will keep a swimming pool fogging for a few hours. We would keep a 5lb. brick in the freezer for most of a day when making bombs with it.

[glhs875]

No I haven't, sounds neat. We had kicked around some sort of idea like that at work, putting a couple of tubes through the water tank that could be filled with dry ice.

Can dry ice come in direct contact with water? I don't know the first thing about that stuff. The tubes through the box were to keep them seperated.

Also, what happens to the fuel when you try to spray it into sub zero temperatures? When does gasoline freeze instead of atomize?


To my knowledge, dry ice is frozen carbon dioxide(CO2)

[amoparacer]

Funny finding this thread I just ordered a 12X12X4 1/2 inch water to air and I will be making the cool can with the tube through it. also put a bid on a mercedes 12V water pump. I have a Giant spearco in my charger. I wana see if the smaller volume of this water to air IC will help my spool up at the drags. Should have pictures in a month or so.

AMoparacer

[Anonymous_User]

No doubt that a water to air cooler is much more beneficial in a race car where you are only cooling for 10-12 seconds.

For a street car application, do you really increase cooling efficiency by cooling the water with a seperate rad. and then pumping the cool water around the IC?

[Frank]

This is similar to my plan on the Daytona. My goal is to convince Aaron to build me a custom setup :D. LOL.

I am going to ask him to build me a heat exchanger that looks like the Daytona IROC radiator that is on Alan's car. Except my will fit between the pop up headlights and will run all the way to the bottom of the core support. I will mount a nice 2500cfm fan to the back of it. I will also create duct work and a chin scoop. The duct work will ensure flow thru the heat exchanger and on pass the radiator. Which also has the same type of fan.

For the A/W IC, I don't like the way the PT's are. I think I may get Aaron to build me an IC that is long and skinny. Like a 24"x6.4"x3.5" core and seal it off to pump water thru it multiple times to cover the length of the core. I will run it along the core support.

I think the key is the pump. I have an electric 20gpm pump. I will also use a small tank that will help.


Frank

[The Pope]

No doubt that a water to air cooler is much more beneficial in a race car where you are only cooling for 10-12 seconds.

For a street car application, do you really increase cooling efficiency by cooling the water with a seperate rad. and then pumping the cool water around the IC?

The only time any real heat comes is with quik blasts on the street. So with the water to air you don't get any heat soke. Then the air to air gets hot as it is hit with boost and then cools down quikly after boost has stopped. This spike in heat doesn't happen with the water to air because the water does a better job cooling.

Now on a road course where you boost for long periods? Still could be better but with a big rad for cooling. Cost, weight, and difficulty make them not a first choice. The GLH and GLHS however have little room. The GT Mustang heat exchanger for there 500 HP SC V8 fits in the Omni like it was made for it, only need to drill one hole. The Mustang uses a 180 LPH pump and I use a 500 LPH bilge pump from Walmart that cost $25. My GLHS has full size rad, stock AC condensor and a 1500 CFM IC. But the other 2 cars with new ICs are getting air to air because they fit better and are cheaper.

[Tony Hanna]

No doubt that a water to air cooler is much more beneficial in a race car where you are only cooling for 10-12 seconds.

For a street car application, do you really increase cooling efficiency by cooling the water with a seperate rad. and then pumping the cool water around the IC?

I think the big advantage is packaging since you can mount the IC under the hood and run small hose to the heat exchanger instead of larger diameter pipe (should be really handy in a car with functional AC). Water to air has to be less efficient because you're transferring the heat twice (air to water then back to air) instead of once like with an air to air setup. I would imagine you can allow for that when you design your system though. Also, even considering street use, the average car isn't in boost for very long at a time but the pump and heat exchanger will keep the water shedding heat when you're at part/no throttle allowing it a chance to catch up. It seems to me that it would work fine for anything up to towing or road racing, and possibly even then if sized properly.

[86trbolancer]

has anyone ever custom made there air-air into an air-water???

i was thinkn of taking the fins out from between every other row on my cummins fmic, then seal it by welding solid alum. panels to the sides...

mine already sits a lil low so i dont think it being sealed and in frt would cause tooo much rad. air flow loss...



just puttin my thoughts out there....

[shadow88]

This guy did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs1YPLce-z0
I don't know his name here, but I'm sure he's on here. You may recognise his intake manifold.

I've done the fuel cooler before, it was very quick to melt the ice, but when it was working it gained a solid 1 mph at the drags. I've seriously considered another one.

[Tony Hanna]

has anyone ever custom made there air-air into an air-water???

i was thinkn of taking the fins out from between every other row on my cummins fmic, then seal it by welding solid alum. panels to the sides...

mine already sits a lil low so i dont think it being sealed and in frt would cause tooo much rad. air flow loss...



just puttin my thoughts out there....

I guess you could, but I don't see why you'd want to. You'd be losing some of the big advantages of a water to air (small size for easy underhood installation with short plumbing). Also, the water to air cores are designed differently than an air to air, so it wouldn't be as efficient (but the size would probably make up for that). The only real advantage you'd gain would be the ability to run an ice box to get below ambient temps for racing. That really doesn't seem like enough of a benefit to justify the extra weight and complexity to me. Personally, I'd just run the cummins IC as an air to air if it's already installed.

[Ondonti]

For 1 shot drags, I would do ice water with salt (since you can drop another 30 degrees or so with salt in ice water).

I would do water/air in a car that has a very cramped engine bay. Not sure I would want it in other places.

[Tony Hanna]

For 1 shot drags, I would do ice water with salt (since you can drop another 30 degrees or so with salt in ice water).

I would do water/air in a car that has a very cramped engine bay. Not sure I would want it in other places.

I'd been considering it just for the ease of running the small water lines to the front of a car with the AC still in place. After the Sundance I don't care to ever install another FMIC on an air conditioned car. Though if somebody would come up with a better than stock IC that would fit as a sidemount beside a TII radiator, I'd probably give up the A/W idea completely.:)

[cordes]

For 1 shot drags, I would do ice water with salt (since you can drop another 30 degrees or so with salt in ice water).

I would do water/air in a car that has a very cramped engine bay. Not sure I would want it in other places.

Good call on the salt. All the good science stuff you learn in elementary school. :thumb:

[8valves]

Good call on the salt. All the good science stuff you learn in elementary school. :thumb:

Except that I wouldn't want salt being circulated through my pump and espescially the intercooler core. Sure would suck if it plugged your expensive A/W core up.

[cordes]

Except that I wouldn't want salt being circulated through my pump and espescially the intercooler core. Sure would suck if it plugged your expensive A/W core up.

I was thinking more of a bath type of setup. It would still corrode your heat exchanger and the tub, but that's the price you pay to get water capable of less than 32*F I guess.

[8valves]

I was thinking more of a bath type of setup. It would still corrode your heat exchanger and the tub, but that's the price you pay to get water capable of less than 32*F I guess.

I wonder if it's really possible. You know, we run three full bags of ice in Lee's car and it seems to melt faster than we can keep it going in. It still gets intake temps in the mid 40's in 80-90 weather.

That would be amazing if you could get it even cooler though I suppose!

[cordes]

I wonder if it's really possible. You know, we run three full bags of ice in Lee's car and it seems to melt faster than we can keep it going in. It still gets intake temps in the mid 40's in 80-90 weather.

That would be amazing if you could get it even cooler though I suppose!

I guess throwing in 5lbs of dry ice and a 2lb. bag of salt is the only way to find out. ;)

[bris09]

This could just be advertising but it did make sense.

Another advantage to an air to water system is the much lower pressure drop across the inter cooler. Making it easier for the turbo to build boost. The turbo may only need to build 22psi to achieve 20psi in the manifold instead of 25psi. Thus lower the charge temp and extending the life of the turbo.

[cordes]

This could just be advertising but it did make sense.

Another advantage to an air to water system is the much lower pressure drop across the inter cooler. Making it easier for the turbo to build boost. The turbo may only need to build 22psi to achieve 20psi in the manifold instead of 25psi. Thus lower the charge temp and extending the life of the turbo.

A well designed air to water unit will have a very small pressure drop across the core.

[amoparacer]

Well here it is in all its glory. looks very sexy on my bed. More fabrication coming soon. New water to air IC.

AMOPARCER PS was 79 bucks on EBAY 101 delivered

[t3rse]

here's mine (I'm bored.....):

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap/intercooler%20001.jpg
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~dberry/2.4swap/intercooler%20002.jpg

[Mike_Shepard]

Gimme thoughts on this inter cooler kit

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1034&osCsid=535b12af406a270237a601b09792707a

[amoparacer]

BUmp:nod: