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mboyek
10-04-2008, 09:54 PM
I'm so happy now. :love:

Check it out:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f48/197506-i-cant-believe.html#post1357016

Bardo
10-04-2008, 10:16 PM
that is %100 SEXY!! where in pa do your live??

whywoody
10-05-2008, 10:44 AM
Well done Mike,I'm glad you stuck with it!
Once you finish off the small details and start tuning it you will be very happy I'm sure.

2.216VTurbo
10-05-2008, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't mind checking it out but I'm not gonna click that link:confused:

cordes
10-05-2008, 10:56 AM
I can't view anything over there. Would you mind posting it up over here?

contraption22
10-05-2008, 12:17 PM
Im curious as to what it is but my anti-virus gives me a warning every time i click that link.

omni_840
10-05-2008, 02:16 PM
As stated some members choose not to go to td.com or can't so it would cool if if you would upload them here so we can see them :)

jamesmonty
10-05-2008, 02:53 PM
I agree, post them up here. TD gives me hives, plus it just sucks. Click link in my sig to find out why.

mboyek
10-05-2008, 08:14 PM
Sorry guys, I never paid too much attention after this site was formed and many people left for here. Did not realize it was that bad. But this site seems to get better responses to silly questions I have had.

where she be now.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0055.jpg

My first engine rebuild:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2499.jpg

Looking for what I thought was a water leak. Turned out to be fuel. Scary, I lost my sense of smell that day. Glad It didn't catch fire.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0051.jpg

Mitsu vs Holset
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2866.jpg


poor firewall:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0033.jpg

extra hardware
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0037.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0045.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0046.jpg

This is a log FPR with a T in the feed line going to the returnless Stratus fuel rail. Stole this idea from the 2.4 guys.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0047.jpg

GM part of remote mount filter (3980), the expensive block adaptor leaked and needed much modification. http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0048.jpg

turbo hiding back there. The angle I have on the exhaust manifold is pretty much the worst angle possible, plenty of room higher or lower. And my 'rigged wastegate mount is not firewall friendly. The gas pedal had to me moved a few inches to the left and I am not clever enough to be able to keep the power steering. http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0050.jpg

Dash setup; air pressure gauge to indicate if I'm in boost and a oil pressure gauge for head pressure mounted in an old toyota lean-0-meter.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0053.jpg

pretty much sums it up:http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0043.jpg

I've been working, but the van needs a downpipe, exhaust, converter and firewall patch. Also needs all intercooler piping and intercooler mounted. Then I can start working on smaller details such as acquiring a title and what not. Still a very long way to go (also have a visor "cap" which needs to be mounted to the roof) but I am super excited because I have been working on and off with this thing for a few years now.

jamesmonty
10-05-2008, 08:38 PM
Looks like a nice project. Do yourself a favor and forget your TD login. Stay here and you will never miss it.

omni_840
10-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Nice work!

moparzrule
10-05-2008, 08:55 PM
LOL, I love the fact that you can see the turbo through the floor pan/firewall!!! That setup should kick some azz.

mboyek
10-06-2008, 12:12 PM
The firewall will have to be "patched." I plan to build a box around it, this thing is going to be inspected for road use.

I try to stay out of internet politics, Pretty much everything I learned about the 16v conversion came from info posted on td before this site existed. But there is notable difference in demographics between the two.

mock_glh
10-06-2008, 12:32 PM
If I may ask, what are those cam sprockets from? Are they 40 tooth? I know the 2.0/2.4 sprockets are 42 tooth and would have to be matched to the distributor/oil pump sprocket and a 21 tooth crank sprocket.

cordes
10-06-2008, 09:19 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post up the pics over here. I really like what you've got going there. Take pride in all that hard work, few people are able to do something like that. :nod:

mboyek
10-06-2008, 09:20 PM
The cam sprockets I bought from a TD member 2 years ago I believe, they are 2.2/2.5 "wheels" welded to 2.0/2.4 centers. They were cheap because one gear is about 1/2 tooth off time, so I have the exhaust cam retarded 1/2 tooth. (at least I think, I set up the motor almost a year ago)

Tonight I mounted a intercooler and installed the grill (ford probe cooler). I have a intercooler from a starlion, but the probe one was just so easy to mount. I am going to order a coupler for the compressor outlet and for the throttle body and then I should be able to plumb the intake. Also started on fabbing up the downpipe. 4" pipe is big.

I was working with the flow control valve, wide open at a hot idle is 15 psi. It doesn't seem to have much effect on hot pressure for the last few turns, so I think I will fiddle with the cold pressure too as its around 70 psi cold.

I set the distributor timing, but forgot which way the motor spins so I set it for 6^ starting from the wrong end (14^ for real?) It did not like that. :)

Might have some news on a title by tomorrow.

mboyek
10-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post up the pics over here. I really like what you've got going there. Take pride in all that hard work, few people are able to do something like that. :nod:

Thanks :)

mboyek
10-08-2008, 09:59 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2887.jpg

I'm not happy with this downpipe, its not finished but I was trying to get a more gentle turn, but there is little room when using a 4"flange and 3" pipe. I still need one more 90 to go straight back, I'm thinking of putting flex pipe before the converter too.

The worse part is the turbo outlet is on the inside of the sharp turn and the wastegate is towards the outside with a less sharp turn. I wouldn't worry too much if it were the other way around.

Maybe this will end up being a temp downpipe untill everything else gets finished..

2.216VTurbo
10-08-2008, 11:55 PM
The turn is a little abrupt but the size is constant so I dont think it is going to hurt flow that much. One thing you might try since you do your own welding is to chop a little 5/8"-3/4" section of the 3 pipe, then cut through one spot so you can bend it open gently just a little. Then you can mock it up in the inside of that sharp bend that is bugging you, and seam weld both edges airtight. Use a carbide cutter on a die grinder to remove the sharp angle on the 'old' inside radious (go in through the downpipe entrance). Not sure if it is totally clear but I used the same kid of trick on my wastegate plumbing where it had cracked three times previously. The two welds are stronger than one:thumb:

moparzrule
10-09-2008, 06:58 AM
Hmm, I know it's expensive but you should look into ATP's downpipe's. They have a 4''-3'' V band adapter, and then use the short leg 3'' V band downpipe like I did. Basically I just used the 90* turn, chopped off the bottom cuz it was too long. Used a 45 to shoot it toward the stock downpipe location, then once it's there used another 45 at an angle to get it pointing straight toward the back of the car and flat. This sounds complicated, but it's not and flows way better than a stock downpipe when you take into account not using a stock style swingvalve.
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-MDP-002&Category_Code=MDP

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/shadow6.jpg

mboyek
10-09-2008, 11:45 AM
Thanks for your feed back.

I made a high tech graphic to see if I could clarify things.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/colored.jpg

The blue thingy is the outlet, and the black is the wastegate flap.

Using a primitive test (air compressor blow gun) I noticed it flowed very well from the wastegate side (green line), but flowed terribly from the outlet side (pink line). When you would spray the blow gun in that general area the air would bounce straight back and all around and very little would go out the exit, even with the entrance blocked off.

I think what you are suggesting is to soften the bend where the yellow dotted line is? I was thinking of adding some metal to the inside of the outer turn (where the green is) in order to give the outlet (pink line) less of wall to hit.

I may or may not fiddle with this more right now, depending on how soon I get the pieces for my intercooler piping and the rest of the exhaust, I'm just not too sure what to do as I don't fully understand how air flows and how its coming out of the exhaust turbine direction wise. At least my welding is steadily improving.

Thanks for the heads up on products, I just hate buying things and would rather spend the time fiddling around. If I would have found that a few years ago I may have bought it, I was having a heck of a time finding v-band parts. But now that I trick myself into thinking I can weld, I have a urge to fabricate everything. :thumb:

RJ138
10-09-2008, 02:43 PM
Just create more pie cuts and smooth out the bend. Here is what my downpipe looks like. It is 4 inches in diameter. Looks kind of ugly but it is wrapped so you can't really see all the cuts and welds.

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v254/77/59/13934476/n13934476_45725593_3783.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v254/77/59/13934476/n13934476_45725587_1511.jpg

moparzrule
10-09-2008, 04:28 PM
Damn, full 4'' downpipe, sweet.

Mboyek, I do love that technical drawing LOL :thumb:

However, even with your design RJ138, that is not a smooth bend at all. The best for flow as we all know is mandrel bends. It just doesn't get better than the ATP downpipe as I linked to in my last post. The fact that yours is 4'', it will probably flow more than a mandrel 3''. But if Mboyek is going to stay 3'' the ATP is the way to go, or atleast find some short leg 90* bend to weld up rather than piece something together. Just because you have a welder doesn't mean that fabbing everything is the best way to go!

RJ138
10-09-2008, 05:14 PM
Damn, full 4'' downpipe, sweet.

Mboyek, I do love that technical drawing LOL :thumb:

However, even with your design RJ138, that is not a smooth bend at all. The best for flow as we all know is mandrel bends. It just doesn't get better than the ATP downpipe as I linked to in my last post. The fact that yours is 4'', it will probably flow more than a mandrel 3''. But if Mboyek is going to stay 3'' the ATP is the way to go, or atleast find some short leg 90* bend to weld up rather than piece something together. Just because you have a welder doesn't mean that fabbing everything is the best way to go!

I couldn't fit a mandrel 4" bend in there, the radius wasn't tight enough. That is why I resulted to using pie cuts. I could of went to 3" but didn't fell like buying an adapter when I already had the v band flange from the Holset elbow. It works and I saved a boatload of money. I guess I could of went with a smaller degree pie cuts. I think I went 15 degrees on each end, it looks decently smooth, if I would of went with smaller pieces and like a 10 degree cut it would of been a lot better but a pain in the --- to weld.

turbovanmanČ
10-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Looks good, maroon Minivans rock, :partywoot:

What hose did you use for the oil filter adpater-looks like heater hose?

mboyek
10-09-2008, 09:46 PM
Its actually black with white snowflakes, its just really dirty.

I decided to go with more "pie" cuts instead of buying more mandrel bends. Oh well, this is just a "hot rod" not a race car/van. I need to get a metal band saw, I have been cutting angled pieces of pipe with a protractor and masking tape for marking the cuts and a pneumatic cut off wheel. This takes FOREVER!

The remote oil filter uses silicone heater hose from NAPA, its also the same stuff they use when they make hydraulic hoses, so its ok with oil.

turbovanmanČ
10-10-2008, 01:31 PM
The remote oil filter uses silicone heater hose from NAPA, its also the same stuff they use when they make hydraulic hoses, so its ok with oil.

Just checking, I've seen cars/trucks with regular heater hose for oil lines, :wow1:

mboyek
10-17-2008, 09:48 PM
Found some more pictures of the build up I forgot about.

Haven't been working on the van at all, mostly concentrating on my pos daytona that doesn't like to run nice. So I'll share. The downpipe is about 70% done now.


Mock up of drains and turbo. Engine rebuild at this time.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_10_full.jpg

Shifter and turbo do not agree. The bracket was modified allot. The speedo cable also needed to fit through there and its kinked worse.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_11_full.jpg

I thought I did a nice job with the bender, gave enough room to get a hand in to adjust timing. Thats oil feed for head and turbo as well as pressure equalization. Well, with the throttle body wiring and vacuum hoses, there is no longer room to get a hand in. :p

The distributor hold down can be had with a distributer wrench, and the distributor can be moved with a long screw driver. :thumb:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_12_full.jpg

There is now a T where that coolant sensor is, to have a thermostat bypass hose. that brass plug is loctited in. I'm sure it would love to eat a timing belt. and a somewhat better view of the welded hub cam gears.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_13_full.jpg

expensive leaky thing. Fixed with a rubber gasket from a new oil filter, a razor blade, a steady hand and patience.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_14_full.jpg

Its been a while..
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_1_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_3_full.jpg

gotta get that visor painted soon.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/2065000-2065999/2065059_26_full.jpg

turboshad
10-23-2008, 02:17 PM
Project looks good. In response to your downpipe which you have probably already fixed........ that looks like an awfly long radius on your 3" mandrel. I used a 4" short raius bend and it looks tighter than your 3". If you want to in the future I'm sure you could find something tight enough to almost make it into your design constraints. Here's some pics of my 4" for refrence.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Exhaust/DSC02825.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Exhaust/DSC02829.jpg

DJ

moparzrule
10-23-2008, 03:15 PM
Turboshad your downpipe is nearly identical to mine, except much nicer welding! LOL. Oh and I don't have the cutout or the PCV draw system hookup like you got welded in but I have thought about doing it.

mboyek
10-27-2008, 07:00 PM
That exhaust looks nice!

Where did you buy short radius bends from? And your 3 bolt flange? I need one of those too. :)

I got some more work done, downpipe is mostly done for now and intercooler is plumbed. Intercooler piping needs a couple more pieces so I don't have hose clamped to hose as well as brackets to support it, but its pretty much done :)

Grill back on:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2896.jpg

intercooler piping:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2888.jpg

downpipe:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2890.jpg

I had fun driving it around the block. kept popping different intercooler junctions. After I got all those tight, I had some fun. :eyebrows:

Trying to be good as its not titled, inspected, insured etc etc etc. The wastegate seems to be working well, I can hear it fluttering away at higher rpm's. My boost monitoring setup is no good, doesn't indicate anything. Turbo seems to be at full chat about 3k rpm. When I was just taking it around the block, I did not notice the vacuum line to the wastecan had blown off. It feels Quick that way! Explodes over 3k rpm.

Gotta get this title! and a converter and exhaust. :love:

Orangetona
10-27-2008, 09:19 PM
Very nice dude, looks like its coming along good.

I can see it now, 'wheres your turbo at?' 'Oh, you dont see it, you must be blind!' *opens passenger door* 'Duh!'

BTW, that hose is definately not hydraulic hose. Thats 'supreme' heater hose, its perfect for what you're using it for though. If that was used for hydraulic we'd have ppl coming back very unhappy because that doesnt even come close to 2000+ psi that normal hydraulic is haha.

mboyek
11-13-2008, 10:30 PM
As long as the hose can hold 60+psi of hot oil, I will be happy. Its leaking other places however. boo.

Firewall is patched, interior back in. Picked up a "bed liner" rubber mat sized for the back of the van. Great replacement for the ratty carpet.

Exhaust is about complete. Quieter than a open pipe but still quite loud. Hopefully when I get it all buttoned up it will be somewhat quiet. I'm using a "truck" cheapo muffler, 3" in, dual 2.5 out. Planning to complete it with dual side outlet exhaust kicked up a angle a little to look somewhat like zoomies. :) 3" flex pipe and 3" high flow cat.

Have a boost gauge in it now, idling is 15in vacuum and the exhaust is HOT, might have to look into installing the exhaust cam straight up, its a little retarded now. (half a tooth off, is that like 15^ or more like 7???)

Driving it around the block, nailed it in 2nd and the vise grip holding the exhaust flanges together fell off, so I let off at 10 psi, and popped the I/C hose off in a new spot... I realize my pipes need to be finished, but I wonder if my bov (stock'89) is not big enough to release the boost. The only time this pops lines is when I let off the throttle under boost. I hear it opening when shifting however.

I will try to get some more pics up soon. The closer to getting it road worthy, the more little things I discover. The fuel pump cut out a few times. but always coughed back to life. May need rear shocks to pass inspection. I haven't had the drums off to see if there are any brakes left back there....

whywoody
11-15-2008, 10:39 PM
Lookin' good there Mike!
I have my cams 'straight up',and it goes great.Mine idles warm with slightly less vac than you,although I am using the 2ltr cams and I'm located at 4500' above sea level.
I found the stock engine mount beneath the rad was being destroyed allowing the engine to roll back under power and pop the IC plumbing apart all the time.The exhaust was being pulled apart too,broke and worked loose a couple of exh manifold mounting bolts also.I even set up a solid bobble strut off the back of the block,still a problem.I stopped it from happening by cutting the eye end off of a dead bus shock (from work...),and welding it into the bracket that bolts to the block,then drilled the bracket that bolts beneath the rad to the larger bolt that suits the bushing ID.No problems ever since,however interior vibration is alot worse now.I also filled the other mounts with Sikaflex body adheisive to stiffen them up,works well also.
I think you should opt for a larger bov too,or at least double up on stock pieces minimum.
Where are your oil leaks coming from?

mboyek
11-16-2008, 06:06 PM
I have the 2.0 cams as well. Installing the exhaust cam straight up would involve building a new cam gear. So thats on the back burner. 4500 feet, wow! I'm at like 300 :)

I'm going to go solid motor mounts in the future. Right now they are the stock rubber with the air gaps filled with urethane. This van is not about comfort, although I need to put a fire wall mat in, its LOUD!

How did you port your Holset? I "rounded" the edges of the wastegate passage but did not bore it out. It hits 15 psi pretty quick, but I have not fiddled with the wastecan, controller etc. Dual BOV's would add a little class to the mess underhood...

The oil leaks are from the oil distribution block (should be an easy fix, just a pita to get to) and that damned oil filter re-location block. If that just seeps, I may just let it.

I have a certification test I need to be studying for this week, so I shouldn't be fiddling around with this van or the internet, but when thats taken care of I should be able to get it inspected, get some pictures up and work out some kinks while driving.

mboyek
11-16-2008, 06:10 PM
I just noticed you have an a523 from a shadow. Thats where mine came from too! I think it was a 93 2.2.

whywoody
11-17-2008, 10:22 PM
Mike,
For porting the wastegate hole,I looked at the wear pattern on the sealing surface of the puck to make sure it was positioned centrally over the hole in the housing,which it was.Then I ground off the small weld that attatches the actuator arm to the shaft,removed the arm and slid the shaft with puck out of the housing.Then I used a die grinder to enlarge the port diameter as much as possible while leaving a small lip for the puck to seal against.It dosen't sound like alot could be gained,but it does increase the port's area a reasonable amount,and it's free to do!
I then reassembled the puck and shaft,positioned the arm,welded it back on with the mig.
I also ground the radius into the port,like you,trying to encourage exhaust flow as much as possible.
With the cams,my gears are non adjustable also,but I have got around this problem.
What I have done is:
1)postion the crank at TDC
2)with belt and gears off,postion the cams at desired positon (straight up etc)
3)place the gears on the end of the cams,but don't positon them relative to the locating pins,spin them at least a few teeth either way (or 180*),and tighten the bolt just enough to stop them from falling off the shoulder.The gears will not be flush against the flange of the cam,and the pins will be pushed lightly against the gear,looking for a hole that isn't there yet.
4)then put the belt on the engine and either fit the tensioner or simulate tension on the belt in that area.Make sure the belt is tight down the front and accross the top between the cams.
5)make sure the crank is still on TDC while the belt is tight.
6)you should be able to positoin the cams by droping something into the holes that we use for checking 'straight up' ,while holding the crank and 'tight' belt at TDC.
7)once the cams/crank/belt are in the right positions,look at where the cam gear locating pins are and mark the cam gears relative to these,so you can drill your NEW timing referance holes.
8)remove the gears,then drill or grind your new holes for the cam pins.
9)make sure you know which gear is for which cam,as they won't be the same as each other...I found that out the hard way lol!
10)if you really want,you can use a chisel to make new marks 90* to your new timing holes,on the gear face's for external timing marks that line up with the valve cover gasket surface.

Hope this makes some kind of sense lol!

mboyek
11-23-2008, 11:09 PM
The daily grinders need some attention, so a few more days until something productive is done on the van. I did buy a 12v heater/defroster. Might need it. :)

Thanks for the idea on drilling a new hole in the cam gear. I keep forgetting about that (you suggested that a while back too. 8^) )

I'm still not following you on the wastegate passage porting.

I did radius the inlet, as well as the outlet (where flapper valve is) but I did not bore out (effectively increasing the I.D. of the passage the entire length). Did you do that in addition to porting both sides of the passage? I still might have a problem elsewhere, just trying to get an idea if I did enough porting. I suppose I could always break it down and stick it under the drill press.

mboyek
11-26-2008, 06:04 PM
First pictures, then my ramblings;

Fun "monster garage" sticker.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2934.jpg

probe intercooler and many many hoses. Seems to be working well in this cool weather.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2933.jpg

Busy engine bay. You can see one of the two air horns in the bottom of the pic.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2931.jpg

3" flange, flex pipe converter and flange
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2929.jpg

Cheapo 3" in dual 2.5 out w/2 2.5 mandrel 90's. This is not finished, the tips will be side exit and kick up a little (think zoomies)
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2930.jpg

Leather :)
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2928.jpg

Truck bed liner someone cut to fit in a swb caravan. Mine for $10 at the JY :)
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2926.jpg

the office. the red button will be for switchable high boost after I put in my socketed ecm. The mopar boost thingy is screwed up, and my cheapo e-bay special only reads 20" vacuum and 10 psi boost. :yuck: Notice the 12v ceramic heater on the dash.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2927.jpg

mboyek
11-26-2008, 06:29 PM
My computer is screwey.

OK.

The good news is a new map sensor solenoid fixed the random miss. The bad news is a code 54. Will be able to fix oil leak when I'm in there.

I've decided not to mess with the cam gears. I am getting 17-18" vacuum at idle, but the things have visible run-out when running. The belt tracks fine but I am worried about thrashing the cam bearings over time, so I plan to order the $$ yet blingy cam gears from our vendor. I would prefer non adjustable units for a few bucks less, but at least they will be quality.

I'm a little undecided on the turbo. It will over boost like crazy over 4k rpm. I would like to just "go with it" by adding a 3 bar sensor/cal and some etoh injectors (+20??), but I should probably get a wideband and should probably be kind to the motor for some type of a break in period.

I don't have the long cable for my spare scanner, and the minivan hood is a pita to work around. So this is what I came up with. :eyebrows: that pink stuff is duct tape.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2935.jpg

Last night I threw the alternator belt.....because the water pump pulley fell off.. :yuck: I guess I forgot to tighten those bolts after assembly.. ;)

So I'm insured and registered, just need an inspection. Will only need the tail pipes to be finished to pass that, and that hall pickup should make it run better if its working. I've got all these extra parts sitting on the shelve waiting for the engine to be broken in. Can't wait for switchable boost. I should probably carry around spare CV axles, these ones are on their last leg.

mboyek
11-26-2008, 06:35 PM
Silly me never posted this:

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/1031081533.jpg

BadAssPerformance
11-26-2008, 09:04 PM
Lookin good :thumb: and thanks for posting pics here for those of us who cannot go there :thumb:

whywoody
11-27-2008, 03:06 AM
Mike,with the wastegate hole it sounds like we have done similar work.
What injectors are you currently using,stock???
I found some Ford CFI (throttle body,2 injectors per engine) 5ltr injectors for mine,super cheap at the wreckers and depending on what info I've found on them,they are a little larger than +40's at our fuel pressure.
With the scanner,I moved the diagnostic port to the interior right by the cig lighter when you open the fold down cup holder/door.It's convenient as power for the scanner is right there....I then used the light switch that's also there,when 'on',to put my smec in flash mode and the laptop interface plugs straight into the diag port too.
I have been playing with Rob Loyd's newest version of his Turbonator cal,and getting the van pretty nice to drive now.

mboyek
11-27-2008, 09:42 PM
Mike,with the wastegate hole it sounds like we have done similar work.
What injectors are you currently using,stock???
I found some Ford CFI (throttle body,2 injectors per engine) 5ltr injectors for mine,super cheap at the wreckers and depending on what info I've found on them,they are a little larger than +40's at our fuel pressure.
With the scanner,I moved the diagnostic port to the interior right by the cig lighter when you open the fold down cup holder/door.It's convenient as power for the scanner is right there....I then used the light switch that's also there,when 'on',to put my smec in flash mode and the laptop interface plugs straight into the diag port too.
I have been playing with Rob Loyd's newest version of his Turbonator cal,and getting the van pretty nice to drive now.

I have yet to do diagnostics on overboosting, I was planning on hooking the waste can to straight manifold, its possible the solenoid could be stuck. Also, I need to disconnect the waste can completely and go for a drive to see if I get boost.

Right now I have the stock 2.5 t1 injectors in. I have a set of flex fuel injectors I was planning on dropping in as soon as I hook up my A/F gauge.

What vintage is the ford CFI 5.0 tbi?? And what color are they?? do you have part numbers? I like this chart: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

I'm a big junkyard fan, I even have ford injectors in my 'vette. :evil: I did just order the motorolla 3-bar map sensor from freestyle, something close to +40's on my budget would rock!

To move the diagnostic port, did you have to add extra wire, or was it just tied up in the loom? I have a long cable and some holes in the firewall, I just didn't have access to the cable and my good scanner when I was testing things yesterday. I got rid of the cubby/cup holder and now just have the ash-tray which I'm going to add gauges in. I do like your idea of having all the computer stuff there.

I haven't been following the cal stuff recently, is the "turbonator" a specific cal? I have the 2.5 T1 auto cal in until I get all the bugs worked out. Are you using a cal based off a 16v cal?

Thanks for all the help and inspiration! and happy thanksgiving!

whywoody
11-28-2008, 02:16 AM
Ok,I found the ford injectors listed in the 'ford' section of that link you posted (that's the info I use too).
They are LOW impedence,and 52.4 lb @ 32 psi for the ones listed,but they are the HO models.I pulled mine from a pick-up and a crown vic I believe,so mine may be smaller.They are a little different physicaly to ours,but with a small mod they fit fine.I can try and get the exact # off mine for you,and check if I have more around.
The Turbonator Cal is posted here on this site in the code repository section,with lots of info about it there too.It has lots of extra options for you to select,which are interesting,but it is still being developed to remove a few bugs.It is based from the 2.5 T1 stock cal,but 3bar +40's etc.
I moved the diagnostic port by adding wire...a bit of a pain to do,but made driving around with the scanner hooked up alot nicer.I am glad I ran a few 'spare' wires at the same time,as they came in handy for the flash modded smec that I fitted later.
Glad to be of some help,our projects are very similar,
Scott

turboshad
11-28-2008, 11:46 AM
I was also getting some serious creep around 5000 RPM with my HE351. My RPM is probably higher because of my short runner and 2.4 setup but I'm sure the scenerio is similar. I was more like a second spool than creep. I have always thought of creep being a slow process which mine definately wasn't. But like what has been discussed I ported the WG hole and I am now able to get stable boost up to 7000.

I did it a bit different than whywoody though. I took the exhaust scroll off, and then made sure the it was orientated in the direction it would be on the car and closed the WG. This makes sure it closes like it would if it were on the car. Then I sprayed some silver paint in around the puck. You now have a template of where the puck sits. I didn't have to remove the WG. I just ported the hole larger to the point of still being comfortable with the seat around the WG. Probably about 1/8" or so all around. Then I rounded the WG inlet like others did to help the flow in to the hole. After that "creep", or as I would call it "secondary spool", was no longer an issue.


EDIT: I re read what you did to your WG hole and you need to enlarge it to keep the creep down. It is creeping b/c at higher RPMs it can't evacuate enough exhaust. If you have already radiused the outlet then you should be albe to open it up to the edge of that radius making the edge square again. Just as long as you have a sufficient seat for the puck to sit on, keeping in mind how much it can move around, you should open it as large as you can.




Thanks for all the help and inspiration! and happy thanksgiving!

Aren't you a few weeks late on that one :D

DJ

mboyek
11-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Aren't you a few weeks late on that one :D

DJ

.. Time's been standing still down south here.

mboyek
12-03-2008, 01:36 AM
Tommorow:

The nitty-gritty trouble shooting on the distributer pick-up, finishing the exhaust and hopefully getting somewhere with the over boost (I'm betting my manifold line blew off the waste -can)

The future:
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2936.jpg

Tiny 3 bar map and all the hardware to make it work. :)

mboyek
12-03-2008, 08:56 PM
Christmas came early because Harbor-Freight was having a sale. My air cut of wheel bit the dust last week too...

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2937.jpg

Which allowed me to do this EASILY:

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2938.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2939.jpg

The good news is I ported the waste gate passage well, I hooked the can to manifold pressure and get 7psi steady.

The bad news is I think I will need to switch in a different distributor. I put in a new HEP today, still has a random miss and cuts out pretty bad over 3k rpm in lower gears. Code 54 is why I suspect the distributor.

These are the tools I needed to take the cap off to swap the HEP!! The stratus manifold is not user friendly. I think when I get spare time and money I will buy a conversion for the head mount setup. But the 'vette needs a clutch.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2940.jpg

Hope everyone enjoys following along, I always love threads with pics.

moparzrule
12-03-2008, 10:20 PM
Haha you got the same welder I do, nice.

mboyek
12-06-2008, 12:16 AM
Ok, stratus intake + a few odds and ends (how you set up your coolant hoses and route your oil lines) can make it impossible to remove your distributor without removing your intake manifold.

I was going to swap in a spare distributor because I thought the shutter wheels had some play. It turns out the slop I felt is the meshing of the oil pump and the distributor base. It also turns out my distributor is permanent until I decide to remove my manifold. Put in a known good HEP (3rd try here) and kept the distributor in there after checking it over. Setting the timing I zapped the crap out of myself. Guess those home made wires are not up to snuff!! thats probably why it breaks up bad at high rpm's.

Still getting code 54, I think I'm going to try a spare ecm. I did check the wiring harness so I'm pretty sure thats fine, although its been a few years since I verified it was ok, so I should probably re-check the hep wires to the ecm.


Also gutted a spare MAP for my 3 bar.

Cold here!

mboyek
12-07-2008, 09:48 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2942.jpg

3 bar freestyle map in a spare tbi map sensor case. $12 sensor + $10 shipping may be a bargain if I didn't melt it with the soldering iron!

moparzrule
12-08-2008, 07:53 AM
Where did you buy that if I may ask?

mboyek
12-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Where did you buy that if I may ask?

newark.com

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25914

cordes
12-08-2008, 12:33 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2942.jpg[/IMG]

3 bar freestyle map in a spare tbi map sensor case. $12 sensor + $10 shipping may be a bargain if I didn't melt it with the soldering iron!

Looks good. I made one and it was well worth the time. I haven't had it in the car since I potted it, but it ran my omni just fine when I first made it.

mboyek
12-11-2008, 04:39 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2945.jpg

These came in the mail today. :D

They are FAR too nice to put on the van. I'm sure the pictures make the van look nicer than it is, these gears are going to class up the joint!

Tomorrow morning is the official inspection date! Hopefully everything passes! Once I get that sticker I will be able to drive the thing a little and work out the last bugs.

On the code 54 front, it was a bum ECM!! I bought the computer from a less than reputable member off the other site a few years ago, put in a spare ecm, no miss, no code 54, no stalling! I still have the base timing at 0^, every time I go to advance the dist I get zapped by my home-made wires. I have a fancy set in the mail somewhere. :thumb:

Might be turning up the boost and racing honda's by the end of the year. :D

turbovanmanČ
12-11-2008, 05:06 PM
I love the gears and its such a shame to hide them, :(

mboyek
12-12-2008, 08:53 PM
The state of PA will now allow this evil minivan on its streets!

I was putting on a decent tire before the inspection and noticed all my lugs were finger tight. Torqued them down and that nasty vibration went away! I don't think I will need to buy new cv's these seem fine now. The guy who went over the loose ends before the road test should be fired :yuck:

I like the feel of no power steering at highway speeds!

With the distributor at 0^ advance, 5 psi of max boost, bad plug wires, wonky cam gears with significant exhaust cam retard and a engine rebuilt by the same guy who forgot to tighten the lug nuts and the water pump pulley this thing pulls about as strong my worn out a413 tbi spirit. :thumb:

Once the weather clears I have some pretty cam gears and will hopefully have new wires soon to go on. If I get the factory boost control to work, I won't have any more bugs to work out!

mboyek
12-14-2008, 06:08 PM
typing this with 9 fingers today, the evil van drew allot of blood today.


took some pics of the oil drains for reference.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2953.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2954.jpg

every new seal leaks. LOL.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2952.jpg

measured tolerances, the rear cam gear had .040" vertical run out.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2955.jpg


that's it for pics, the batteries died.

The water pump pulley is bent, must have boogered it when it fell off. So that's where my 2.5k rpm rattle is coming from. I just "eyed" everything up timing wise, started it and had 5"vacuum and ran like poop. So I took off the valve cover and did it right.

The FWD performance gears still needed a spacer (I used the ones I had already made) or else they would sit flush on the head. Started it up and it developed a nasty whine. Not sure if its the water pump going out or whats up, but its bad, and I didn't have it w/the old gears. The tension is set about 90 #. I walked away. I'll let it sit till I get a new WP pulley and the wire set.

2.216VTurbo
12-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Keep in mind that when I set my cam timing a couple weekends ago with the FWD Perf TIII gears, each 'mark' on the gears was almost 2.5 degrees. So use them judisciously if you are gonna just tweak them a little this way and that. I was 11 degrees out on one cam and 10 on the other from 'eyeballing' them:o

mboyek
12-15-2008, 11:15 PM
Keep in mind that when I set my cam timing a couple weekends ago with the FWD Perf TIII gears, each 'mark' on the gears was almost 2.5 degrees. So use them judisciously if you are gonna just tweak them a little this way and that. I was 11 degrees out on one cam and 10 on the other from 'eyeballing' them:o

I have the exhaust gear back like 3 hash marks. I was struggling to get the teeth lined up and get the tensioner on when I decided to just put the cams straight up and ignore the lines. "eying it up" I think I was at least 10-15 degrees off. You have to remove the valve cover, or cut a hole in your fender to see it straight on. I wish there were notches in the cam gear centers so I could turn the cam independent of the pulley.

My wires are on their way so I'm going to see if I can get a WP pulley from the dealer as the nearest junkyard is still an hour drive. If I get some time I need to wire up the gauge lights and an O2 meter.

moparfreak3
12-16-2008, 02:59 PM
If you need a wp pulley I'll send you one if you pay the shipping

t3rse
12-16-2008, 03:12 PM
what is the sensor going into the back of the block near the oil drain?

mboyek
12-17-2008, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the offer on the pulley, the dealer said he can get one for $10, which I'm sure is about what it will cost to ship.

The sensor on the back of the block is the temp sensor for the dash gauge, its stuck in where the coolant line for the turbo used to be, the holset is oil only.

mboyek
12-23-2008, 06:02 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0061.jpg

..nice

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0062.jpg

A little short so I had to hide them in ugly conduit to prevent rubbing (hey the yellow was free...)

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0063.jpg

oooo

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0066.jpg


http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0065.jpg

And I think that is the cause of my problem. The feed line is from the bottom in the back, the T it runs to goes to the fuel rail and the FPR. The FPR goes back to the return line.


http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/GEDC0068.jpg




Ok so new plugs and it seemed worse.

Hooked up the otc4kE scanner and noted the O2 does not jump, it reads a constant voltage until something changes. rich or lean. Reads rich when you would expect and lean when you would expect but kindof just sits at that voltage until I do something. This could be my fault as I installed the newer Chrysler O2 sensor (from like a 00 stratus or so). Foot to the floor reads rich till the 4krmp cut out, then falls to lean.

So I checked the fuel pressure. 50psi key on, 55 psi running w/line disconnected. But its Jumpy at idle!

I put a 6 foot section of line in and taped the gauge to the windshield, had my sister sit in the passenger seat holding a fire extinguisher and then did some WOT blasts behind my house. :evil:

I think the giant hose attached to the fuel rail acted like a buffer as the van would pull to 5k rpm hard, then "cut out" again and the fuel pressure would drop. So that's whats happening, I'm not getting enough fuel.

I'm not sure if its the regulator (84 2.2 TI) or my attempt to keep the return less rail that's choking it.

I was thinking of trying a better reg. Something that looks like this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Universal-Fuel-Adjustable-Pressure-Regulator-RED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a 1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2 50344878885QQitemZ250344878885QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5f TruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Or I suppose I could do like everyone else and modify the rail to accept the return line.

Either way this setup can not support over 4krpm. Maybe I should leave it on until I get some break in miles. :confused:

mboyek
01-04-2009, 06:22 PM
Haven't touched the fuel rail, put a new brake line on and drove it around the block to check for leaks. Developed a LOUD knock. Honestly sounds like injectors, the thing clatters like a diesel. High oil pressure in head and block. Not idling smooth anymore. Cold, smooth quiet idle, got it warmed up and drove maybe 1/4 mile and got the noise. Not happy, shut it down and walked away. This is becoming a trend...

turbovanmanČ
01-04-2009, 07:28 PM
Bummer but just be patient, your bound to have issues. Good job its not a DD, :thumb:

mboyek
01-22-2009, 10:30 PM
Changed the oil yesterday, had some screwey theory the lifters were not pumping up with oil due to the 15-40 weight It had and the sub zero temperatures.

So that oil came out BLACK. Fresh rebuild with about 50 miles on it, probably 10 miles and 15-20 min run time on the oil that came out black. Probably less than 5 min run time after it started knocking.

Put in 5-30, primed the oil pump, started it up, noisy knock.

....It's idling about 12" vacuum, down from 18 or so. Argh.


Bummer but just be patient, your bound to have issues. Good job its not a DD, :thumb:

If it ever works, it will be a dd.....

Any theories on what to check first? I was going to pull the VC's and see if a rocker broke or valve stuck. I don't know what I'm doing here.

moparzrule
01-23-2009, 08:03 AM
0W40 FTW!

Timing belt might have skipped a tooth, check cam timing first and then check distributor ignition timing.
Does it sound like it has a miss? If so pull the plugs and see which one is not firing, and if one isn't firing then take the VC off to inspect to see if a rocker fell off.

mboyek
01-23-2009, 12:37 PM
0W40 FTW!

Timing belt might have skipped a tooth, check cam timing first and then check distributor ignition timing.
Does it sound like it has a miss? If so pull the plugs and see which one is not firing, and if one isn't firing then take the VC off to inspect to see if a rocker fell off.

I'll double check the timing, sounds plausible as I changed the cam gears. Had it tightened to 90lbs and it went bad after 5 min or so. But had been running fine for a bit.

I would run 0-40 or something, but I'm trying to stick to conventional oil for the break in, I have only seen that weight in full synthetic.

The most noticeable thing is the knock. Its rapid enough I think its cam related as opposed to crank. It does miss now too. What could cause oil contamination other than a hole in the block/piston etc? This problem started when gently driving the car (no more than 10% tps) at maybe 1500 rpm.

moparzrule
01-23-2009, 03:51 PM
So this is a fresh rebuild....What brand 15W40 oil were you using? Was the assembly lube you used black? It could just be the assembly lube making the oil black.

Anyway, yeah for break in I typically use castrol GTX 10W40...but if it's that cold out than 5W30 should be fine. That stuff is even pretty thick when it's below freezing. I know, I changed the wife's car's oil but I left the oil in the car overnight. Pouring is a whole gallon of 20 degree oil, even 5W30, sucks when it's 20 degrees outside!

If it's not a clear cut miss I doubt it's a rocker off. Retarded timing can sound like a light miss, but a rocker off will make the engine miss completely obviously and make the engine vibrate bad when revved up.
Don't just look at the cam gear and see if it slipped, make sure the belt didn't skip a tooth. Then check the base ignition timing. And if all those are OK, check the codes. The coolant sensor can make it run crappy and not even throw the check engine light, but still pull code 22.

mboyek
01-23-2009, 08:47 PM
So this is a fresh rebuild....What brand 15W40 oil were you using? Was the assembly lube you used black? It could just be the assembly lube making the oil black.

Anyway, yeah for break in I typically use castrol GTX 10W40...but if it's that cold out than 5W30 should be fine. That stuff is even pretty thick when it's below freezing. I know, I changed the wife's car's oil but I left the oil in the car overnight. Pouring is a whole gallon of 20 degree oil, even 5W30, sucks when it's 20 degrees outside!

If it's not a clear cut miss I doubt it's a rocker off. Retarded timing can sound like a light miss, but a rocker off will make the engine miss completely obviously and make the engine vibrate bad when revved up.
Don't just look at the cam gear and see if it slipped, make sure the belt didn't skip a tooth. Then check the base ignition timing. And if all those are OK, check the codes. The coolant sensor can make it run crappy and not even throw the check engine light, but still pull code 22.

I didn't have a chance to look at it today.

But, the oil has already been changed. ie, the oil from the first start up was changed after a few miles and coastal 15-40 was put in. This is the stuff I changed the other day, it was gold before I was having the problems (checking level) and was black after the knocking problem.

It has a slight miss and lower vacuum, but the big problem is the loud knock. Like I don't want to let it run loud. Tried zeroing in on it with a stethoscope and then a hose, couldn't.

I have a feeling its something bad, going to focus on other projects for now.

moparzrule
01-23-2009, 08:56 PM
Coastal??? Dude never touch the container let alone put it in your car!

1985ShlbyChrger
01-23-2009, 09:27 PM
Theres nothing wrong with using coastal oil for breakin.

turbovanmanČ
02-02-2009, 01:10 AM
Does the oil smell of fuel?

Black could be due to the brand of oil, if its cold 15w40 is way too thick.

If you have low vacuum and a miss, do a compression test.

mboyek
02-09-2009, 10:17 PM
Does the oil smell of fuel?

Black could be due to the brand of oil, if its cold 15w40 is way too thick.

If you have low vacuum and a miss, do a compression test.

Yes, the oil smelled like gas, and Yes, 15-40 is way way too thick for 5^F. It was gold when I poured it in however.

But, give me a nice day, with the sun still up after I get out of work and I found this!!!!!

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/100_2980.jpg

It always seems to help me when I just walk away from a problem for a while, then the simple things appear!!

That is the intake cam, got it centered and it got quiet, vacuum back. Phew :hail:

I know I tightened those bolts, but I re-set the timing in the coldest week of the year, so I think once it warmed up it stretched the bolts or they slipped or something happened with extreme temperature swings.

This is such a relief, I was really thinking I wiped out a cam bearing or lobe. Now I can get back to making a REAL fuel rail... after the 'vette gets done...

moparfreak3
02-10-2009, 07:21 PM
Glad you got it figured out. If possible I would put some lock washers on the bolts to keep them in line.

turbovanmanČ
02-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Glad you found it, :nod:

whywoody
02-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Good news there Mike!

mboyek
04-05-2009, 07:55 PM
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/0405091719.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/daytonaer/0405091721.jpg

Ford ranger push bar. Doesn't fit perfect but close enough.

Finally wired up lights for the gauges and the AF gauge.

It has now become the D.D. because two of my daily grinders blew up and the other "car" is in a million pieces....... at least it will get some break in miles...

mboyek
04-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Today I ran a true return line from the test port (AN-4 I believe).

It runs a million times better but still leans out in 3rd+ gears at 3800+ rpm.

So it looks like its probably the fuel pump.