2 solenoids+2 g-valves+1 switch = 3 stage boost contoller

[A.J.]

First let me explain my set up. 88' Caravan, 2.5, auto trans, T-II Garret with a .48 housing, Toyota Supra intercooler, and '89 stock electronics.

I had 1 grainger valve set to 12 p.s.i. for the summer and 15 p.s.i. in the winter because I was getting to much detonation in the summer. I would barely get on the gas and I'd be at 12 p.s.i. and driving in the city in traffic there's no need for that. Plus when I use the cruise control when I hit a hill the boost spikes and the lower boost setting would help fix that. I was just going to have one g valve, low and high boost setting but I don't want to have to readjust the g valve for summer and winter. So I have three settings: Low 7 p.s.i. (no g valve just the spring in the wastegate), Middle 12 p.s.i., and high 15 p.s.i. I'm trying to figure out how to mount the switch to the gear shifter. When I figure it out I'll post an update.

The way it works. On low, the non-energized solenoid on the left lets boost to the w.g. On middle, the left solenoid becomes energized and shuts off flow to the w.g. and the non energized solenoid on the right lets boost to the w.g. On high, the left solenoid stays energized, the right one becomes energized and lets boost through the right solenoid 3rd port and the other g valve to the w.g.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1299.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1300.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1301.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1302.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1303.jpg

A.J.

[cordes]

Looks pretty good. I always like it when guys make stuff like that and post the pics. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

[Darkapollo]

I have been thinking of doing something very similar with my unused purge sol's..

[A.J.]

I mounted the switch on the shifter today. I did the best I could with the size of the switch. I don't think it looks bad but I could not think of a better "cleaner" way to do it. The position is awesome. I don't have to lean forward looking for the switch. If I need more boost in a pinch, it's easily accessible and I don't have to take my eyes off the road. If those who read this don't mind, could you please give me your opinion on how it looks. If it looks crappy, okay, redneck, awesome, or whatever.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1310.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1308.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1304.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1305.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1307.jpg

A.J.

[cordes]

10/10 on a pragmatist scale. Nice work.

[Darkapollo]

not too bad.. though i would do some searching for a column shifter with a button for that 'stock' look..

[Aries_Turbo]

looks amazing. redneck amazing but amazing none the less. only thing... take some ABS plastic and glue up a cover for the rear terminals and bolts. make it slope from the terminals down to the bolts for a lower profile.

super cool. :)

Brian

[A.J.]

I found a smaller switch. I had to solder the wires on. It's a 6 amp switch compared to the 20 amp that I used first.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1315.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1314.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1313.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1312.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1311.jpg

A.J.

[cordes]

I like how the lever on this one is red. Much cooler.

[2.216VTurbo]

Yeah, all that thing needs now is an XD 40 cal under the seat in a safe box:lol:

[A.J.]

Ya I thought of that already. But I prefer a compact 1911 in .45. Did you see my pictures in another post?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29994

A.J.

[2.216VTurbo]

Ya I thought of that already. But I prefer a compact 1911 in .45. Did you see my pictures in another post?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29994

A.J.

;) I thought that was an XD handgrip;) I don't have one, only fired a friends and still lust after it a bit. It made my Glock feel like a dinosaur:o

[cordes]

;) I thought that was an XD handgrip;) I don't have one, only fired a friends and still lust after it a bit. It made my Glock feel like a dinosaur:o

Alan, how could you confuse the grip safety on a 1911 for an XD. :(

[A.J.]

Yeah, all that thing needs now is an XD 40 cal under the seat in a safe box:lol:

I thought it was to much of a coincidence that you mentioned a safe under the seat after I posted my pics.

The XD is all black with a polymer frame. The 1911 is an aluminum frame.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF0005.jpg

[Murphy]

http://murph.axode.net/images/xd.jpg

XD 40

back on topic...
I'm gonna do a 3 way boost controller when I get my car running again. I think the switch looks tacky as hell, but it works! I think you should look at a WOT switch. that way you can have 7 psi around town, but as soon as you go WOT you can have 12 or 15 depending on where the switch is at

[A.J.]

Thanks for posting the pic of the XD.

Very rarely to I go to w.o.t. So that option won't work for me.


not too bad.. though i would do some searching for a column shifter with a button for that 'stock' look..

I tried this but couldn't find anything. But I only searched for about 1/2 an hour. If anybody finds anything with a switch mounted in the column shifter please post it here. With my wiring and a stock looking switch, that would be a sweet set up. Just keep in mind you need a 3-way switch for a 3-stage boost controller.

A.J.

[Aries_Turbo]

Very rarely to I go to w.o.t. So that option won't work for me.


you should unless the cal has been modified. stock cals have less fuel and more timing at non wot than at wot. if you reach the limits of the timing retard upon knock, youll have toasted parts.

Brian

[2.216VTurbo]

Alan, how could you confuse the grip safety on a 1911 for an XD. :(

City boy I'm afraid:o 'Round these parts we don't get much opportunity to snuggle up in a bathtub with an assault rifle Brian:p I go to the range (indoor no less) like twice a year:(

[cordes]

City boy I'm afraid:o 'Round these parts we don't get much opportunity to snuggle up in a bathtub with an assault rifle Brian:p I go to the range (indoor no less) like twice a year:(

I hear you there. When I lived in the big city I didn't have time nor the energy to drive far enough to shoot often enough. Now that I live in a rural area ammo is ridiculously priced. :(

[A.J.]

First let me explain my set up. 88' Caravan, 2.5, auto trans, T-II Garret with a .48 housing, Toyota Supra intercooler, and '89 stock electronics.


you should unless the cal has been modified. stock cals have less fuel and more timing at non wot than at wot. if you reach the limits of the timing retard upon knock, youll have toasted parts.

Brian

That's why I don't, and that's why a w.o.t. switch won't work for me. I'll keep my "redneck amazing," "tacky" switch until I can find something "cleaner."

A.J.

[Aries_Turbo]

That's why I don't, and that's why a w.o.t. switch won't work for me. I'll keep my "redneck amazing," "tacky" switch until I can find something "cleaner."

A.J.

i dont think you understand. you say you barely go to WOT..... WOT is safer than part throttle boosting cause it has less timing and more fuel.

thats why we are saying make a wot switch for high boost mode. high boost only at WOT. high boost at part throttle kills things.

i like the switch. alot. dont mistake what i wrote as negative.

Brian

[A.J.]

I didn't take anything as negative. I welcome everybody's opinion. I should have put a smiley in my last post.

At w.o.t. the computer ignores the O2 sensor and can't compensate for to much boost, whatever limit that might be. I have an air/fuel ratio gauge and has never gone lean at any throttle position. But because the computer is in a different mode in w.o.t. I try not to use it. I also have had my Snap-on Solus Pro scan tool monitoring knock and timing and even before knock happens the computer at a certain boost level advances the timing. I don't know what the threshold is. I'll be boosting high and it'll just advance. I don't remember if I tried it at w.o.t. though. I'll have to do that.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF1302_2.jpg

A.J.

[thefitisgay]

hey man i love how you used a cable thing like that to mount the switch i think its awsome :thumbs: but the only thing i thought of is it looks ike the switch is easy to bump to the wrong setting... anyway i think....no i DEMAND this e added to the knowledge center :amen:

[A.J.]

hey man i love how you used a cable thing like that to mount the switch i think its awsome :thumbs: but the only thing i thought of is it looks ike the switch is easy to bump to the wrong setting... anyway i think....no i DEMAND this e added to the knowledge center :amen:

Thanks. It can't be bumped. The only thing that gets near it is my thumb. The only setting that might be set wrong is the middle which is 7 p.s.i. Up is 15 p.s.i. and down is 12 p.s.i. If it was more than a three position switch I'd be worried about it. When I get time I'll write up a proper write-up and submit it to the K.C.

A.J.

[Aries_Turbo]

I didn't take anything as negative. I welcome everybody's opinion. I should have put a smiley in my last post.

At w.o.t. the computer ignores the O2 sensor and can't compensate for to much boost, whatever limit that might be. I have an air/fuel ratio gauge and has never gone lean at any throttle position. But because the computer is in a different mode in w.o.t. I try not to use it. I also have had my Snap-on Solus Pro scan tool monitoring knock and timing and even before knock happens the computer at a certain boost level advances the timing. I don't know what the threshold is. I'll be boosting high and it'll just advance. I don't remember if I tried it at w.o.t. though. I'll have to do that.

A.J.

but the levels that the O2 sensor feedback are shooting for are around 14.5:1 which is WAAAAY too lean for anything more than .5-1psi. Plus, the O2 isnt monitoring at part throttle boost anyway (IIRC for the SMEC), its looking purely at the part throttle fuel table which is leaner than the full throttle one. combine that with more advance at part throttle than WOT and you have a recipe for disaster.

the reason that it advances is that there is 1.5 degrees (IIRC) that the SMEC plays with at part throttle based on certain conditions. it doesnt do that at WOT. Now as the revs rise, the timing increases even if the boost is steady from the GOVNER table in the calibration.

you may know what the end result is from the scanner telling you, but i know why it does it from looking at the code and the calibration itself on a regular basis. :) you dont want to be part throttle boosting with the switch in high boost.

Brian

[cordes]

you may know what the end result is from the scanner telling you, but i know why it does it from looking at the code and the calibration itself on a regular basis. :) you dont want to be part throttle boosting with the switch in high boost.

Brian

+1. I cringe when I think about some of those tables and the way I did things before I knew what they looked like. There is a lot less fuel and a lot more timing at part throttle for sure.

[A.J.]

but the levels that the O2 sensor feedback are shooting for are around 14.5:1 which is WAAAAY too lean for anything more than .5-1psi. Plus, the O2 isnt monitoring at part throttle boost anyway (IIRC for the SMEC), its looking purely at the part throttle fuel table which is leaner than the full throttle one. combine that with more advance at part throttle than WOT and you have a recipe for disaster.

the reason that it advances is that there is 1.5 degrees (IIRC) that the SMEC plays with at part throttle based on certain conditions. it doesnt do that at WOT. Now as the revs rise, the timing increases even if the boost is steady from the GOVNER table in the calibration.

you may know what the end result is from the scanner telling you, but i know why it does it from looking at the code and the calibration itself on a regular basis. :) you dont want to be part throttle boosting with the switch in high boost.

Brian

That might be why I'm getting detonation on the really hot days (110-115). That's why I turned my boost down for the summer time. It was on hard (about 3/4 throttle) accelerations and it was pinging at 15 p.s.i. I'm using 91 octane and played with my timing a bunch and settled on 16 BTDC. I've been thinking about getting an adjustable cam gear and playing with that. I guess it's time I take the next step and modify my computer. I've been putting it off because I don't understand what I need and how to do it. I need some guidance.

A.J.

[Aries_Turbo]

yup thats why it was pinging. on a turbo car you shoudnt hear one ping at all. the ecu pulls timing when it "hears" knock from the knock sensor. the knock level that the sensor can detect when it starts pulling timing is inaudible from inside the car. when you hear pinging, the computer has already pulled 15 deg of timing and cant pull anymore (thats the limit).

so when you go 3/4 throttle and hit the high boost switch and you hear pinging, its about to blow up. seriously. the computer is trying to save the engine but you have removed the boost control safeguards and have it in a condition that can quickly destroy it.

just go WOT at a lower level of boost. its safer then.

put the timing back to 12 deg (stock) and keep it safe.

Brian

[WVRampage]

maby a shifter from a newer van with auto stick.....

[A.J.]

maby a shifter from a newer van with auto stick.....

I thought "auto stick" only came on floor shifter cars. I'll have to keep my eyes open in the j.y.


yup thats why it was pinging. on a turbo car you shoudnt hear one ping at all. the ecu pulls timing when it "hears" knock from the knock sensor. the knock level that the sensor can detect when it starts pulling timing is inaudible from inside the car. when you hear pinging, the computer has already pulled 15 deg of timing and cant pull anymore (thats the limit).

so when you go 3/4 throttle and hit the high boost switch and you hear pinging, its about to blow up. seriously. the computer is trying to save the engine but you have removed the boost control safeguards and have it in a condition that can quickly destroy it.

just go WOT at a lower level of boost. its safer then.

put the timing back to 12 deg (stock) and keep it safe.

Brian

I can't hear the knocking. If it wasn't for watching it on my scan tool I'd have no idea it was going on. My knock sensor was producing over a volt. Also when I built my engine Chris W. highly stressed that I use forged pistons. I'm glad I listened to him. I think it saved me.

Also I forgot, I'm also using cooler plugs. When I was playing with my timing and octane I went through three sets of plugs going colder and colder trying to get the detonation to stop. Stock NGK heat range is 4 and I'm using 9's right now.

Wouldn't it be safer to leave my timing at 16 if the computer can only pull out 15? That's 4 more degree's than if it was at 12.

A.J.

[cordes]

I thought "auto stick" only came on floor shifter cars. I'll have to keep my eyes open in the j.y.



I can't hear the knocking. If it wasn't for watching it on my scan tool I'd have no idea it was going on. My knock sensor was producing over a volt. Also when I built my engine Chris W. highly stressed that I use forged pistons. I'm glad I listened to him. I think it saved me.

Also I forgot, I'm also using cooler plugs. When I was playing with my timing and octane I went through three sets of plugs going colder and colder trying to get the detonation to stop. Stock NGK heat range is 4 and I'm using 9's right now.

Wouldn't it be safer to leave my timing at 16 if the computer can only pull out 15? That's 4 more degree's than if it was at 12.

A.J.


16 would be the mechanical advance which is then added to the advance in the spark tables. These two numbers (I kind of simplified the actual process) added together give you what the computer can subtract from. There is no reason to have the timing higher for the sake of the computer pulling it out. Keep it at 12 and be done with it.

[A.J.]

I was at the electronics store today picking up a socket for SMEC and found some really small switches. I got an idea to put one in the end of the shifter. I need to go to the j/y and get a couple of extra shifter arms to practice on. It might be awhile but I'll keep everybody updated.

A.J.

[cordes]

I was at the electronics store today picking up a socket for SMEC and found some really small switches. I got an idea to put one in the end of the shifter. I need to go to the j/y and get a couple of extra shifter arms to practice on. It might be awhile but I'll keep everybody updated.

A.J.

An electronics store where you can pick up a socket. Lucky!

I will be looking forward to the update, as I enjoy the pics of the stuff you make.

[Aries_Turbo]

man, he doesnt mess around. its already socketed. i just got a pic in my PM's. post it AJ. the board looks good. :)

Brian

[A.J.]

$.75 for a 2 pack, including tax! The name of the store is "Fry's electronics." Located in Tempe and Phoenix AZ. If you can't find it in the Phoenix metro area you don't need it.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF0028.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/thebest4/DSCF0020.jpg

A.J.

[glht_omni]

gus would give you the big stamp of approval! i think its neat and serves your needs.

[cordes]

Wow, you got that board nice and clean. Good work.

[Russ Jerome]

http://hometown.aol.com/russjerome/images/3stageclose.jpg
Lots of options on plumbing three settings thru a double
throw switch.

A WOT switch in an automatic is very important if your
not running a RMVB, line pressure low while kickdown
is not applied is hard on the trans at higher boost.

[Aries_Turbo]

^^^^when i saw AJ's setup, i immediately thought of yours tucked up by the cowl on the omni back in the day.

Brian

[Reaper1]

I've designed a 3-stage boost system baased on a similar concept, but mine uses "Gus's Ultimate Boost Controller" as its basis(meaning the ultimate strength of the wastegate actuator is what determines the highest boost level). I use a WOT swith to activate the "hi" boost(I HIGHLY suggest going with an electronic switch as the mechanical ones are a PITA and come out of adjustment, and also gives a visual cue that something's up). I've also come up with a way to make it gear based, but I've got to see about possibly making it so the switches aren't "mechanical", ie micropressure switches. I haven't finished it yet...doing other more important things right now...one day! LOL :D