super 60 on a stockish motor/car?

[ShadowFromHell]

Hey guys Im starting to put the motor together for my 86 NY, its a 88 block with T2 rods and pistons, stock 782 head with a 88 turbo 1 roller cam. The car is a 86 new yorker auto, and I plan on keeping it auto.

My dilemma here, is I was running a stock t3 on it, but I have a low mileage super 60 with a 3inch SV and the quick spool option also sitting in my shop. I was thinking of putting it on the yorker motor, since the car I bought it for isn't going to be running for a few years.

But, Im worried about it the lag with a 2.2 and a auto. Has anyone ran this combo before? The car is going to be a DD and go to the track as often as possible, but that may be only a few times a year.

Thanks
Dustin

[BadAssPerformance]

S60 is a very capable turbo and not too laggy, even on an auto. Especially if it still has the stock .48 A/R turbine housing, not the .63 it is 'supposed' to have.

[turbovanman]

It won't be laggy, even with a .63 housing. Use it have some fun. :D

[GLHNSLHT2]

the S60 spools faster than the turbo with stock wheels and a .63 and ported 2.5" swingvalve I was running. I have the stock wheeled turbo setup on my 2.2 Auto new yorker. It has the early TC with the slow stall. You can easily drive around out of the boost. You're really got to mean it if you want some boost, but when you punch the throttle to the floor I wouldn't call it laggy.

[moparzrule]

+1, super 60's spool about as fast as a stock T2 turbo. But while you are having the engine apart get some ported manifolds on there too to further increase spoolup.

[slasky]

It spools a little slower than the stock turbo but the power comes on a lot smoother.

[TurboII]

tread jumping-

but what is the differents between a t3/t4 and a super60? what better and which of the two is bigger

[contraption22]

T3/T4 is a general name for a hybrid turbo that uses the turbine side of a T3 turbo and the compressor side of a T4 turbo. Generally speaking, the compressor side is "bigger" than a S60, which is a true T3 turbo.

Beware of 'half---- hybrid" that uses a T3 turbine with a T4 compressor wheel squeezed into a T3 compressor housing.

[tryingbe]

tread jumping-

but what is the differents between a t3/t4 and a super60? what better and which of the two is bigger

What's better depends on what you're using it for.

Bigger would depends on what trim you're talking about and comparing what part of the wheel?

T3 Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
Super 60 Trim
1.900" Inducer Diameter
2.367" Major Diameter

TO4E Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
40 Trim
1.870" Inducer Diameter
3.00" Major Diameter

TO4E Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
46 Trim
2.003" Inducer Diameter
3.00" Major Diameter

http://aplusperformance.com/turbonetics/turbonetics-compressor-wheel/g-51043.aspx


Also, I have a T04E 50 trim with Chrysler .63 housing stocked and ready to sell!
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31211

[TurboII]

What's better depends on what you're using it for.

Bigger would depends on what trim you're talking about and comparing what part of the wheel?

T3 Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
Super 60 Trim
1.900" Inducer Diameter
2.367" Major Diameter

TO4E Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
40 Trim
1.870" Inducer Diameter
3.00" Major Diameter

TO4E Compressor Wheel
Big Shaft
46 Trim
2.003" Inducer Diameter
3.00" Major Diameter

http://aplusperformance.com/turbonetics/turbonetics-compressor-wheel/g-51043.aspx


Also, I have a T04E 50 trim with Chrysler .63 housing stocked and ready to sell!
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31211


okay

a super60 with a .63 a/r and a t3/t4 with a .63 which is better. which is better over all

[tryingbe]

Again, not very specific to what size turbo of that T4/T3 or what your goal is.
Two things can't be compare if they aren't both defined.

Generally speaking, if you want to up 300hp, Super60 will be my choice. If you want over that, T04E 50 trim.

[turbovanman]

okay

a super60 with a .63 a/r and a t3/t4 with a .63 which is better. which is better over all

Depends on your goals, porting etc. A 50 trim doesn't make power until 12 or more psi. A 46 trim wouldn't be a bad turbo for a stockish engine. S60 as noted is a very good street turbo.


Again, not very specific to what size turbo of that T4/T3 or what your goal is.
Two things can't be compare if they aren't both defined.

Generally speaking, if you want to up 300hp, Super60 will be my choice. If you want over that, T04E 50 trim.

Exactly, :nod:

[TurboII]

Depends on your goals, porting etc. A 50 trim doesn't make power until 12 or more psi. A 46 trim wouldn't be a bad turbo for a stockish engine. S60 as noted is a very good street turbo.



Exactly, :nod:

So you just answered my question a t3/t4 would make more power depending on setup.

[Shadow]

okay

a super60 with a .63 a/r and a t3/t4 with a .63 which is better. which is better over all

A 46trim To4e (in the T4 housing) with a .63 will destroy a S60. +100whp turbo, a S60 will make 300whp but it's a streach without all the right parts or 27lbs boost. Even on a fairly stockish mtr a To4e will belt out an easy 300whp @ 20psi on pump gas. With all the right parts a 46 trim is capable of 400whp @ 28-30psi!

[moparzrule]

A 46trim To4e (in the T4 housing) with a .63 will destroy a S60. +100whp turbo, a S60 will make 300whp but it's a streach without all the right parts or 27lbs boost. Even on a fairly stockish mtr a To4e will belt out an easy 300whp @ 20psi on pump gas. With all the right parts a 46 trim is capable of 400whp @ 28-30psi!

IMO the stock stage 1 turbine wheel is what kills when using a hybrid. The 46 trim can easily support the stage 2 wheel, which the stage 2 with a super 60 is crap.

I had a super 70 make 290 WHP at 22 PSI boost on pump gas. A true super 60 would have a ported T3 housing, my S70 was in a stock housing. Not sure how much difference that makes. The rest of my setup was ported G head stock valves, ported stock exhaust manifold, bone stock 2 piece intake with stock TB, the S70 with .63 stage 1, 2.5'' swingvalve, 3'' exhaust no cat, and a dual stock core IC. IMO with a ported 2 piece and 52mm TB I would have hit 300 no problem on the same 22 PSI.

An S60 flows 35 lb/min, a S70 flows 38, and a 46 trim flow 41 lb/min. Thats just the wheel itself, I'm sure an S70 not being in it's native housing hurts flow.

[GLHNSLHT2]

IMO the stock stage 1 turbine wheel is what kills when using a hybrid. The 46 trim can easily support the stage 2 wheel, which the stage 2 with a super 60 is crap.


Why is a stage 2 wheel and S60 compressor crap?

[moparzrule]

Why is a stage 2 wheel and S60 compressor crap?

Too large of a turbine for the compressor. Major lag. It's just a bad mismatch.

[TurboII]

Too large of a turbine for the compressor. Major lag. It's just a bad mismatch.

2.5 can spooled pretty nice :nod:

[Shadow]

IMO the stock stage 1 turbine wheel is what kills when using a hybrid.

Not in a .63 A/R housing when used on a fairly stockish mtr like what is being talked about here. Stage a .63 housing before head porting, cam ect and it's only going to hurt you. Besides, a .63 A/R housing with stock wheel and good 3" SV will flow 380whp. ;)

[moparzrule]

Not in a .63 A/R housing when used on a fairly stockish mtr like what is being talked about here. Stage a .63 housing before head porting, cam ect and it's only going to hurt you. Besides, a .63 A/R housing with stock wheel and good 3" SV will flow 380whp. ;)


380 is pretty maxxed out, would love to see drive pressure specs. Anything over 300 WHP can support the stage 2 .63 turbine easily, and would make more power than the stage 1.

Am I reading this correctly that you are saying that it's pointless to use a .63 housing if you don't have a ported head or aftermarket cam? If so you are sorely mistaken!

BTW I am not arguing at all that a .63 stage 1 is fine for the thread starters needs, I've agreed with that from the start. I'm just saying that no one that I know of that has gone all out with a ported large valve head/ported manifolds/etc with a super 60. They all go hybrid out of the gate. So what I'm saying is the S60 has never really been tested to see the max power it can make at 20 PSI boost, or for that matter I've never seen a 28-30 PSI dyno with a S60 and ported top end combo.

[Shadow]

Am I reading this correctly that you are saying that it's pointless to use a .63 housing if you don't have a ported head or aftermarket cam?

BTW I am not arguing at all that a .63 stage 1 is fine for the thread starters needs, I've agreed with that from the start.

You obviously read that WRONG. As we have ONLY been talking about the .63 A/R housing. Glad that your NOT arguing because everything I'm saying IS based on the OP's build and what will work best for HIM. :p

[moparzrule]

Stage a .63 housing before head porting, cam ect and it's only going to hurt you.


Then explain please cuz I read this and thats still what I get.

[GLHNSLHT2]

380 is pretty maxxed out, would love to see drive pressure specs. Anything over 300 WHP can support the stage 2 .63 turbine easily, and would make more power than the stage 1.

Am I reading this correctly that you are saying that it's pointless to use a .63 housing if you don't have a ported head or aftermarket cam? If so you are sorely mistaken!

BTW I am not arguing at all that a .63 stage 1 is fine for the thread starters needs, I've agreed with that from the start. I'm just saying that no one that I know of that has gone all out with a ported large valve head/ported manifolds/etc with a super 60. They all go hybrid out of the gate. So what I'm saying is the S60 has never really been tested to see the max power it can make at 20 PSI boost, or for that matter I've never seen a 28-30 PSI dyno with a S60 and ported top end combo.

hmmm I have a S60 turbo on my top end combo. Might have to see what it'll do :D

[Shadow]

Then explain please cuz I read this and thats still what I get.

Where do you get to not use a .63 out of that? Stage=stage 2 wheel, stage 3 wheel ect. So what I said was to go any bigger than a stock wheel'd .63 A/R before doing other supporting mods first would be a waste. Was that a little more clear? (this is a real Q, I'm not trying to be a smart a@# here) I still don't see how you got that from what I said, my entire post was about USING the .63 housing with stock wheel, with reasoning to not go BIGGER. :focus:

[moparzrule]

Where do you get to not use a .63 out of that? Stage=stage 2 wheel, stage 3 wheel ect. So what I said was to go any bigger than a stock wheel'd .63 A/R before doing other supporting mods first would be a waste. Was that a little more clear? (this is a real Q, I'm not trying to be a smart a@# here) I still don't see how you got that from what I said, my entire post was about USING the .63 housing with stock wheel, with reasoning to not go BIGGER. :focus:

I said I thought you were saying that using a .63 housing with any stage wheel without a ported head etc was pointless.
OK that makes sense now....although the stock wheel is called stage 1 so I wouldn't say that anymore to clear confusion.

Although I know there was a guy that tested a stock head with a hybrid 50 trim and stage 3 turbine, made 330 WHP at 34 PSI boost. I forget the rest of the setup, I believe it was also a stock exhaust manifold, but I still don't think it would have been that much with a super 60 or even if he had a 46trim with a .63 stage 1 exhaust side.

The OP's question was answered a LONG time ago, it's not absolutely necessary to stay on topic. We still may be answering some of his future questions...if he's still reading.

[Shadow]

Just to be perfectly clear. You said that "IYO the stock (or stage 1)wheel is what kills when using a hybrid". My response was that it is not the case when a .63 A/R housing is used on a fairly stockish mtr like what is being talked about here. I then said that putting a larger than stock wheel or "staged wheel" in a .63 housing before head porting, cam ect is only going to hurt you. I then followed it up by stating a .63 A/R housing with stock wheel and good 3" SV will flow 380whp. So, my entire post was in response to your original statement about the stock or stage 1 wheel in a .63 A/R housing being the "killer" when going to a hybrid turbo, which in this case I felt was wrong. :amen:

[Shadow]

Although I know there was a guy that tested a stock head with a hybrid 50 trim and stage 3 turbine, made 330 WHP at 34 PSI boost. I forget the rest of the setup, I believe it was also a stock exhaust manifold, but I still don't think it would have been that much with a super 60 or even if he had a 46trim with a .63 stage 1 exhaust side.

Even IF a 46 trim stock wheel'd .63 A/R didn't make more PEAK power, it would destroy the stage 3 for spool up and power under the curve.....really NO comparison, especially on a stock head! Only way the stage 3 will outshine the stock wheel would be with NOS to spool and flow it!;)

[moparzrule]

Just to be perfectly clear. You said that "IYO the stock (or stage 1)wheel is what kills when using a hybrid". My response was that it is not the case when a .63 A/R housing is used on a fairly stockish mtr like what is being talked about here. I then said that putting a larger than stock wheel or "staged wheel" in a .63 housing before head porting, cam ect is only going to hurt you. I then followed it up by stating a .63 A/R housing with stock wheel and good 3" SV will flow 380whp. So, my entire post was in response to your original statement about the stock or stage 1 wheel in a .63 A/R housing being the "killer" when going to a hybrid turbo, which in this case I felt was wrong. :amen:

Again, ''staged'' wheel to me didn't denote larger than stock because the stock wheel is called stage 1. I assumed you made a typo or something. But now I know ;)

[moparzrule]

Even IF a 46 trim stock wheel'd .63 A/R didn't make more PEAK power, it would destroy the stage 3 for spool up and power under the curve.....really NO comparison, especially on a stock head! Only way the stage 3 will outshine the stock wheel would be with NOS to spool and flow it!;)

IMO if you lack lower end power you need a different calibration. These engines make plenty of low end naturally aspirated power with the right cal to propel these cars out of boost when daily driving.
The difference in spool between a 46 trim/stock wheel and 50 trim stage 3 would probably be around 500-600 RPM, but the extended top end breathing will be about 200-300 more RPM, even with a stock head (this is assuming you have good ported manifolds). So basically the curve only gets shifted to the right with the larger turbo, and realistically you only loose about 300 RPM of your powerband for what probably is a decent power gain.
The area under the curve can help to be cured with timing advance in the cal for more N/A power before boost. Say a 46 trim with .63 stage 1 gets full boost at 3200-3300 RPM, and a 50 trim stage 3 would get full boost around 3800-3900 RPM. At 2000 RPM the 46 trim is making 5 PSI boost, the 50 trim is only making 1 or less. Well at this point you can run more timing advance on a giving octane with the 50 trim to help increase the power output to make up for the power loss because of less boost. And again with the 50 trim the curve will be shifted to the right so it will be making more power from the peak on compared to the 46. And when drag racing, the upper end HP is whats going to make you faster, not the area under the curve! See what I'm saying?

[turbovanman]

Although I know there was a guy that tested a stock head with a hybrid 50 trim and stage 3 turbine, made 330 WHP at 34 PSI boost. I forget the rest of the setup, I believe it was also a stock exhaust manifold, but I still don't think it would have been that much with a super 60 or even if he had a 46trim with a .63 stage 1 exhaust side.



That was Lugert, stock everything except the turbo but I think it was a stage II 50 trim.


Even IF a 46 trim stock wheel'd .63 A/R didn't make more PEAK power, it would destroy the stage 3 for spool up and power under the curve.....really NO comparison, especially on a stock head! Only way the stage 3 will outshine the stock wheel would be with NOS to spool and flow it!;)

I agree, Stage III on a stock engine is stupid, I had one on a ported setup and didn't get full boost until 4-4200 rpm on my 8 valve.

[Shadow]

See what I'm saying?

No offence, but there's not much to see. Your making opinoins based on things you read and then "theorize" what their effect "might" be. I'm speaking from real world experiance. I have real #'s to back everything that I put out there as something I know. If I don't, I simply state that I don't really know what the effect will be, and then offer my opinion on what it "might" be. Again, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, cause I'm being as polite as I can without throwing the truth of the matter out the window. So, I'll say it again and this time with some tangeable perameters so not to confuse things. Stock turbo longblock, stock intake mani and TB, same SV and exhaust on both cars, everything else =, pump or race gas (no NOS, no Alky inj). Ported stock exhaust mani or not....either way a 46 trim To4e(in it's proper T4 housing) on a stock wheel'd .63 A/R will MURDER a .63 A/R stage 3 50 trim (in it's proper T4 housing)....period. The ONLY thing the 50 trim MIGHT be able to do is put down a higher peek # on the dyno and to tell you the truth (both turbos running the same boost) I even doubt that! The 50 trim would probably need to utilize it's higher P/R and only exceed the 46 trim by being able to run higher boost. :)

[moparzrule]

No offence, but there's not much to see. Your making opinoins based on things you read and then "theorize" what their effect "might" be. I'm speaking from real world experiance. I have real #'s to back everything that I put out there as something I know. If I don't, I simply state that I don't really know what the effect will be, and then offer my opinion on what it "might" be. Again, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, cause I'm being as polite as I can without throwing the truth of the matter out the window. So, I'll say it again and this time with some tangeable perameters so not to confuse things. Stock turbo longblock, stock intake mani and TB, same SV and exhaust on both cars, everything else =, pump or race gas (no NOS, no Alky inj). Ported stock exhaust mani or not....either way a 46 trim To4e(in it's proper T4 housing) on a stock wheel'd .63 A/R will MURDER a .63 A/R stage 3 50 trim (in it's proper T4 housing)....period. The ONLY thing the 50 trim MIGHT be able to do is put down a higher peek # on the dyno and to tell you the truth (both turbos running the same boost) I even doubt that! The 50 trim would probably need to utilize it's higher P/R and only exceed the 46 trim by being able to run higher boost. :)

Really? Huh. So you've run both the 46 trim with .63 stage 1 and also a 50 trim with stage 3 turbine? and you've run both of these turbo's with stock head's? AMAZING! Yeah I didn't think so. You only have speculation on your own part so STFU. Sorry I'm not as polite but you may have thought you were, you weren't. When you say that I have no real world experience it really pisses me off. So how do you know? Going off what others have said behind my back? Well here's my story then. The turbo's I've run are VERY close to what we are talking about in this thread. I've run the S70 with both the .48 and the .63 stock wheel, thats very close to the 46 trim. I've run a T04B H trim with .63 stage 3 in both a 2.2 and a 2.5L, pretty close to a 50 trim. I've run a 46 trim in it's E housing with a .63 stage 2 turbine. I've noted the differences, and have come to conclusions based on my own real world experiences.
So tell me what turbo's you have run that give you this vast knowledge that is so superior to mine that you talk down to me like I know nothing. I'm so anxious to learn o great one.
Everything I've said about the calibrations is also true. I've tuned a cal that makes up for the out of boost HP loss when using too large of a turbo for a given setup. The H trim I was running was really too large of a turbo for my setup, it flows 51 lb/min and then the stage 3 wheel is huge. But I had NO lack of low end power ever once I got the cal tuned for it. Driveability was great, out of boost N/A power was nice and getting the top end breathing with the huge turbine and compressor was great. Actually, with the 2.5L the raw N/A power was so ridiculous I never ever had any traction on the street whatsoever even out of boost. Thats why I went bad to a 2.2 in the first place. So yeah I do know what the hell I'm talking about.


Simon, are you talking about your G headed 2.5 again? If not, ignore the following, but if so, YET again you are giving your experience with an engine that did not have a proper cal. I've had a swirl head cal with a G head before, and also one of Rob's cal's and 2 of Brian's cal's meant for G heads. 100% dog and spool was a turd which doesn't make too much sense to me because retarded timing should spool a turbo faster. It's one of those real world experience things that Shadow seems to think I have none of. Regardless, adding about 20 degrees of timing spooled the turbo atleast 600 RPM faster.

[turbovanman]

Simon, are you talking about your G headed 2.5 again? If not, ignore the following, but if so, YET again you are giving your experience with an engine that did not have a proper cal. I've had a swirl head cal with a G head before, and also one of Rob's cal's and 2 of Brian's cal's meant for G heads. 100% dog and spool was a turd which doesn't make too much sense to me because retarded timing should spool a turbo faster. It's one of those real world experience things that Shadow seems to think I have none of. Regardless, adding about 20 degrees of timing spooled the turbo atleast 600 RPM faster.

Swirl head and when I talk about this stuff, its always swirl head, ;)

[moparzrule]

Swirl head and when I talk about this stuff, its always swirl head, ;)

Not in the past it hasn't always been! What was the rest of your setup like? And this was even with a 2.5L right?

[turbovanman]

Not in the past it hasn't always been! What was the rest of your setup like? And this was even with a 2.5L right?

I'll post it again for the millionth time, ;) and yes, when putting down the G-head stuff, I say G-head is crap, lol.

89 2.5, ported head, aprox 20% more flow, ported 2 piece, 52mm t/b, Typert log header ported at the turbine flange, T3/T4 50 trim, stage III wheel, 3 inch from turbo back, cal by Rob which worked awesome until I cracked the head from leaning it out too much on a 1/4 mile pass, was trying to beat the guy next to me, :o :confused:

[Shadow]

Really? Huh. So you've run both the 46 trim with .63 stage 1 and also a 50 trim with stage 3 turbine? and you've run both of these turbo's with stock head's? AMAZING! Yeah I didn't think so. You only have speculation on your own part so STFU. Sorry I'm not as polite but you may have thought you were, you weren't. When you say that I have no real world experience it really pisses me off. So how do you know? Going off what others have said behind my back? Well here's my story then. The turbo's I've run are VERY close to what we are talking about in this thread. I've run the S70 with both the .48 and the .63 stock wheel, thats very close to the 46 trim. I've run a T04B H trim with .63 stage 3 in both a 2.2 and a 2.5L, pretty close to a 50 trim. I've run a 46 trim in it's E housing with a .63 stage 2 turbine. I've noted the differences, and have come to conclusions based on my own real world experiences.
So tell me what turbo's you have run that give you this vast knowledge that is so superior to mine that you talk down to me like I know nothing. I'm so anxious to learn o great one.
Everything I've said about the calibrations is also true. I've tuned a cal that makes up for the out of boost HP loss when using too large of a turbo for a given setup. The H trim I was running was really too large of a turbo for my setup, it flows 51 lb/min and then the stage 3 wheel is huge. But I had NO lack of low end power ever once I got the cal tuned for it. Driveability was great, out of boost N/A power was nice and getting the top end breathing with the huge turbine and compressor was great. Actually, with the 2.5L the raw N/A power was so ridiculous I never ever had any traction on the street whatsoever even out of boost. Thats why I went bad to a 2.2 in the first place. So yeah I do know what the hell I'm talking about.


Simon, are you talking about your G headed 2.5 again? If not, ignore the following, but if so, YET again you are giving your experience with an engine that did not have a proper cal. I've had a swirl head cal with a G head before, and also one of Rob's cal's and 2 of Brian's cal's meant for G heads. 100% dog and spool was a turd which doesn't make too much sense to me because retarded timing should spool a turbo faster. It's one of those real world experience things that Shadow seems to think I have none of. Regardless, adding about 20 degrees of timing spooled the turbo atleast 600 RPM faster.

Hey, sorry you took it that way, I was only trying to give you some insight to where i was coming from. I've never had to screw with my cals to get a turbo to spool, just pick the right turbo in the first place! I'm glad you have everything figured out, no need to carry on this conversation! Good luck!

[moparzrule]

I'll post it again for the millionth time, ;) and yes, when putting down the G-head stuff, I say G-head is crap, lol.

89 2.5, ported head, aprox 20% more flow, ported 2 piece, 52mm t/b, Typert log header ported at the turbine flange, T3/T4 50 trim, stage III wheel, 3 inch from turbo back, cal by Rob which worked awesome until I cracked the head from leaning it out too much on a 1/4 mile pass, was trying to beat the guy next to me, :o :confused:

I don't ever remember you listing that setup.

[moparzrule]

Hey, sorry you took it that way, I was only trying to give you some insight to where i was coming from. I've never had to screw with my cals to get a turbo to spool, just pick the right turbo in the first place! I'm glad you have everything figured out, no need to carry on this conversation! Good luck!

Oh yeah thats right, you are coming from the land of ''I've tried everything under the sun''. I would bet money that you've never run a 50 trim stage 3 with a stock head. So all you have is pure speculation on your own part. I've atleast run a stage 3 turbine with a stockish setup only making about 250 WHP. Spooled fine for my needs once I got the cal setup. And the reason the cal needs changed is because I was running a G head. When the compression gets bumped down to 7.4:1 things need tweaked in the cal. But you already knew that right? What am I saying, you've tried everything.

I guess thats a good way of dodging my questions. You're slick.

[turbovanman]

I don't ever remember you listing that setup.

Same setup as my last 8 valve setup, but with a G-head, when it dropped the valves, I went to a TIII setup.

[Shadow]

Oh yeah thats right, you are coming from the land of ''I've tried everything under the sun''. I would bet money that you've never run a 50 trim stage 3 with a stock head. So all you have is pure speculation on your own part. I've atleast run a stage 3 turbine with a stockish setup only making about 250 WHP. Spooled fine for my needs once I got the cal setup. And the reason the cal needs changed is because I was running a G head. When the compression gets bumped down to 7.4:1 things need tweaked in the cal. But you already knew that right? What am I saying, you've tried everything.

I guess thats a good way of dodging my questions. You're slick.

The only thing I dodge on the net is a conversation that's going nowhere. Would you like me to apologize for having a shop that has built/worked on over 50 FWD TD's in the last 15 years? 10-15 of those were cars we built for customers. the rest were cars that ppl attempted to build themselves or were built at other shops and were all brought to my shop to try to solve the "lack of performance" problems they had. I've seen everything from stage 3 50 trims on stock mtrs to twin stock I/C's run in sequence instead of being y-piped. Things that I wouldn't consider doing in a million years, but once they were put in front of me to solve, I took the opportunity to fully test them to see just how inefficient they were. I'm sorry my experience upsets you, as hard as it is for you to take, If I can't speak from my own experience I generally don't have to much to say. I guess that can come across like Simon Cowl at times, SORRY!

[turbovanman]

I guess that can come across like Simon Cowl at times, SORRY!

Snap, I saw my name without the Cowl at first and went, WTF? :mad: lol|!

[Shadow]

Snap, I saw my name without the Cowl at first and went, WTF? :mad: lol|!

I have to admit, I WAS going to just put Simon but I figured they'd think I was talking about you! :lol:

[moparzrule]

The only thing I dodge on the net is a conversation that's going nowhere. Would you like me to apologize for having a shop that has built/worked on over 50 FWD TD's in the last 15 years? 10-15 of those were cars we built for customers. the rest were cars that ppl attempted to build themselves or were built at other shops and were all brought to my shop to try to solve the "lack of performance" problems they had. I've seen everything from stage 3 50 trims on stock mtrs to twin stock I/C's run in sequence instead of being y-piped. Things that I wouldn't consider doing in a million years, but once they were put in front of me to solve, I took the opportunity to fully test them to see just how inefficient they were. I'm sorry my experience upsets you, as hard as it is for you to take, If I can't speak from my own experience I generally don't have to much to say. I guess that can come across like Simon Cowl at times, SORRY!

I've actually run twin stock IC's in sequence myself on my daytona, end to end IC people were calling it at the time. It actually worked quite well as far as cooling and seemed to make good power, but when I switched to a real dual stock core with custom end tanks I picked up 5 PSI without changing the boost controller or anything else. Just some more experience on my part that you probably didn't think I had.

So your experience is driving a car that some dip$hit put together that didn't know jack about turbo dodges and thats your experience with a 50 trim on a stock engine? Well of course thats gonna be a dog. As I've already been stating you need a calibration to make up for the lack of boost in the low end, it makes a WORLD of difference inspite of what you and all your vast experience thinks. I've done it myself so you can't tell me otherwise. I don't give 2 sh1ts that you've had a shop building td's for 15 years. Obviously you aren't doing something right then haha.
I actually think it's funny that you think I'm threatened by your experience. Let me clue you in, I'm laughing at you.

You think you're God's gift to turbo dodge's now that you've run a 10.99 or something? With 480 WHP in an L body, just squeaking into 10's is actually pretty sad. Maybe you don't have enough HP ''under the curve''. Thats it. If your car is even shredding the 26's on the launch, here's a revelation for you to try...damn what am I saying you've done everything....a dual stage boost control setup :rolleyes:

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, easy there guys, please be civil with eachother, consider this a warning.