'89 Spirit ES project: body/paint

[Tony Hanna]

I figured I'd start a little project log for the body/paint work on the '89 Spirit ES I just picked up. Here is the car as it sits now:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00045.jpg http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00047.jpg

Aside from the missing paint and all the surface rust, the body is really pretty straight and solid. I plan to pull it apart and get started on the rust removal next weekend. Ideally I'd like to have it under primer by Sunday night so that I can spray it the following weekend.

Anybody have any good suggestions for dealing with the surface rust? Right now I'm thinking of using an angle grinder/wire wheel to remove the worst of it, then going over it with an emery cloth flap wheel, and finishing up with a coat of rust converter/sealer before spraying the primer. Sound reasonable?

Also, any tips for removing the chrome trim on the doors without wrecking it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony

[Turbodave]

I would see how well some 80grit on DA would do first, the wire wheel may leave some pretty heavy scratches behind.

[RoadWarrior222]

Also, any tips for removing the chrome trim on the doors without wrecking it would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe hit it with a heat gun so it bends rather than snaps.

[bfarroo]

Removing the trim is a time consuming task. You have to pull the glass to be able to get to the screws that hold it on. The rear door rear window comes out as one piece but has the track for the other glass that goes down to the bottom and it's held in by some double sided tape. If it's the first time you've done it you feel like your going to break something. It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min. The hardest part is removing the glass. How I did it was to roll the window down about 1/2 way, then grab the top front of the glass and reef it down. this will pop the window out of the track. I wore gloves during this process just in case because this is how hard I was pulling on the window. Then you have to remove it from the regulator by running it up/down to get it in a good position to move it out of the way. I also removed the track felt/rubber from the door then you can get the upper trim portion to slide off and unscrew the bottom. The side mirrors need to come off as well.It's easy once you do it just figuring it out for the first time is a PITA!

[Tony Hanna]

I would see how well some 80grit on DA would do first, the wire wheel may leave some pretty heavy scratches behind.

Good point! I'll try the DA first. I've been looking around the 'net at different methods for dealing with surface rust and after removing the worst of it by mechanical means, a phosphoric acid based treatment like Naval Jelly looks to be the favored method for getting the rust left in the pits. I need to run by the hardware store and pick some up to experiment on some rusty scrap this week. If it works as well as claimed, I'll try it out on the Spirit this weekend.:)

[Tony Hanna]

Maybe hit it with a heat gun so it bends rather than snaps.


Removing the trim is a time consuming task. You have to pull the glass to be able to get to the screws that hold it on. The rear door rear window comes out as one piece but has the track for the other glass that goes down to the bottom and it's held in by some double sided tape. If it's the first time you've done it you feel like your going to break something. It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min. The hardest part is removing the glass. How I did it was to roll the window down about 1/2 way, then grab the top front of the glass and reef it down. this will pop the window out of the track. I wore gloves during this process just in case because this is how hard I was pulling on the window. Then you have to remove it from the regulator by running it up/down to get it in a good position to move it out of the way. I also removed the track felt/rubber from the door then you can get the upper trim portion to slide off and unscrew the bottom. The side mirrors need to come off as well.It's easy once you do it just figuring it out for the first time is a PITA!

Thanks guys! I was hoping that there was some way to do it without having to completely remove the glass, but if that's what I have to do, then I'll do it.:) I guess it's better to do the extra work than to just tape it up and leave a place for rust to start and wreck the new paint job.

[RoadWarrior222]

It probably took me at least 4 hours to remove mine the first time. Then I went to the JY and had all the replacement trim removed in 45 min.

LOL I hate that don't you, mess up parts on your own car, realise how they SHOULD have come off when you're about done, then you take less than a quarter of the time at the wreckers to get replacements.

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

Da?, Cost Alittle Money, But Maybe You Can Find, A Good Shop
That Does Soda,or Plastic,nut Blasting,
Or A Good Job, Sand Blast Everthing, Ok! Just Joking

[RoadWarrior222]

Check the VIN see if there's a secret warranty on the paint LOL

I ain't seeing how wire brushes will put worse scratches in than 80 grit, coz the 80 grit will go right through if you lean on it hard enough whereas the wire wheel just ends up polishing it after a while.

[Tony Hanna]

Da?, Cost Alittle Money, But Maybe You Can Find, A Good Shop
That Does Soda,or Plastic,nut Blasting,
Or A Good Job, Sand Blast Everthing, Ok! Just Joking
John has a sand blaster. It just doesn't have the capacity to do large surfaces though. I may end up making use of it in a limited capacity for small areas that are hard to get to with sand paper.:thumb:


Check the VIN see if there's a secret warranty on the paint LOL

I ain't seeing how wire brushes will put worse scratches in than 80 grit, coz the 80 grit will go right through if you lean on it hard enough whereas the wire wheel just ends up polishing it after a while.
I think it depends on the wheel. Some of the heavy gauge knotted wire wheels will actually dig into the metal if you stay in one place too long. The wheels with the smaller gauge wire will usually just polish the metal like you're talking about. Either way, the primer I'm using is a high build sandable primer, so keeping out small scratches isn't really mission critical. Getting the rust delt with so the new paint doesn't bubble is the important part. If I end up having to shoot several coats of primer and sand between each to fill some scratches, I'm not going to complain.:)

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Another quick question. Are the strips that run between the tops of the doors and the back glass (the thing that still has paint on it in the second pic) removable? If so, how? They look like they hide a seam or something and might provide a really good place for hidden rust to start creeping back out.

Thanks,
Tony

[Speedeuphoria]

I dont think those are removable, they are kind of a PITA. I did not remove mine(if its possible) when painting.


As far as the wire wheel, I would try the DA or a flapwheel way before wasting my time with the wire wheel. The flap wheels that I have grind metal so will deff remove the rust. I just like using a larger surface area and flat to not create a wavy surface

[Tony Hanna]

I dont think those are removable, they are kind of a PITA. I did not remove mine(if its possible) when painting.


As far as the wire wheel, I would try the DA or a flapwheel way before wasting my time with the wire wheel. The flap wheels that I have grind metal so will deff remove the rust. I just like using a larger surface area and flat to not create a wavy surface

I wonder how they're attached? If they're in there with seem sealer or something so that it's likely there's no rust hiding underneath them, then I won't worry about it.

I'll probably just use the DA to be safe. Maybe hit anything stubborn with a flap wheel. I ran across a pretty good write up on how to deal with surface rust here: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/secrets-surface-rust-removal-revealed-55679.html I'd like to follow those steps pretty close. If I can get similar results, I won't be too worried about the rust coming back.

I also need to decide what to do about the windshield and back glass. The rust extends right to (and probably under) the rubber trim around both of them. The windshield isn't a big deal because it's cracked and needs replaced, but the back glass is fine. I hate to cut it out and run the risk of breaking it or having it leak when I glue it back in...

Thanks,
Tony

[1966 dart wagon]

for the surface rust i would try some either dupont or ppg rust remover, not quite sure of the name but its a chemical you wipe on surface rust like you have and it comes right off then you neutralize it with water when your done, then whip off and prime.

Using a DA or just sandpaper for that matter will not get the rust out of the lil pits, you wont be able to see it, but rust is still there. Just a though, oh and for bare metal make sure to use epoxy primer or etch, they are both designed to stick well to bare metal, i would use epoxy if i was you. They showed us it at school and i was amazed I though meh use a grinder, the wipe method is much easier and doesnt leave scratches. And i wouldnt probably soda/media/sand blast it, roofs are week and thin, it would probably warp it, unlesss MAYBE you used a 'spot' blaster and wanted to do it all day.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=258&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C1334%2C1342&KickerID=410&KICKER
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11122&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C607%2C1549&KickerID=411&KICKER

[ShadowFromHell]

I use to be a autobody tech, quit doing it beacue the pay is so low... But here is what I would do.

use a DA sander with 80-120 grit to remove all the bad paint and rust. You should be able to get 90-99% of the rust this way. Then get a product Rust-Mort. Use a rag to apply it (per directions) but do not rinse it with water. Let it dry, at least a full 24hrs. Then re-sand all the area's that you applied Rust-Mort too with the 80-120 grit on a DA.

after that, you should be good to prime. Good luck, it will be time consuming, but not to hard!

[bfarroo]

If you pull the headliner there is a nut that holds it in from the inside as the piece has a stud on it.


Another quick question. Are the strips that run between the tops of the doors and the back glass (the thing that still has paint on it in the second pic) removable? If so, how? They look like they hide a seam or something and might provide a really good place for hidden rust to start creeping back out.

Thanks,
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

for the surface rust i would try some either dupont or ppg rust remover, not quite sure of the name but its a chemical you wipe on surface rust like you have and it comes right off then you neutralize it with water when your done, then whip off and prime.

Using a DA or just sandpaper for that matter will not get the rust out of the lil pits, you wont be able to see it, but rust is still there. Just a though, oh and for bare metal make sure to use epoxy primer or etch, they are both designed to stick well to bare metal, i would use epoxy if i was you. They showed us it at school and i was amazed I though meh use a grinder, the wipe method is much easier and doesnt leave scratches. And i wouldnt probably soda/media/sand blast it, roofs are week and thin, it would probably warp it, unlesss MAYBE you used a 'spot' blaster and wanted to do it all day.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=258&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C1334%2C1342&KickerID=410&KICKER
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=11122&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C607%2C1549&KickerID=411&KICKER

Interesting! I've got some phosphoric acid based stuff that I'm going to try after I DA the worst of it off. It sounds like it works about the same way. I do need to get some of the metal prep stuff though.:)


I use to be a autobody tech, quit doing it beacue the pay is so low... But here is what I would do.

use a DA sander with 80-120 grit to remove all the bad paint and rust. You should be able to get 90-99% of the rust this way. Then get a product Rust-Mort. Use a rag to apply it (per directions) but do not rinse it with water. Let it dry, at least a full 24hrs. Then re-sand all the area's that you applied Rust-Mort too with the 80-120 grit on a DA.

after that, you should be good to prime. Good luck, it will be time consuming, but not to hard!

I think the stuff I've got is similar. I looked up the MSDS on Rust-Mort and it lists the primary ingredient as phosphoric acid.:thumb: I think the main reason the guy in the thread I linked to was using water was to keep it from setting up so that it wouldn't dry out before the acid had completely finished converting the rust (as opposed to just converting and sealing the top layer). Allthough if I manage to get all the rust off the surface, the black coating from the rust remover should keep anything left in the pits from spreading right?


If you pull the headliner there is a nut that holds it in from the inside as the piece has a stud on it.
Cool! The headliner is sagging a little and needs reglued anyway, so I'll just pull it out now and take care of both at the same time.:)



Thanks,
Tony

edit: Any tips on what to do about the windshield and back glass? Right now my options are to tape them up and paint around them, lift the rubber trim and brush some POR15 or something similar underneath it then tape and paint around, or cut them out and paint everything.

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW if you've got some phosphoric acid, and think it's a good idea to put some in a squirt bottle.... don't.









'coz the mist blows back at you and you cough your guts up...

[Tony Hanna]

BTW if you've got some phosphoric acid, and think it's a good idea to put some in a squirt bottle.... don't.

'coz the mist blows back at you and you cough your guts up...

I found that out the hard way last night.:( I was experimenting on some rusty stuff to see how well it worked. When I put it on the car, I'm definitely either going to use a respirator with acid gas cartridges and a squirt bottle or more likely just put the stuff on with a chemical resistant brush.:)

Thanks,

Tony

[RoadWarrior222]

Those cheap foam brushes are okay with it, unless there's solvents in the mix.

[Tony Hanna]

Cool! I think I've got a few of those laying around.

[WickedShelby88]

Looks like a nice find/project there. I always like the ES spirits especially since you don't see too many of them.

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks! I like it because it looks so much like an R/T but without the expensive/hard to find 16v parts. Hopefully with the surface rust sorted out and a decent paint job, it'll make a nice platform to swap all of the go-fast goodies from the Sundance onto. I've repaired most of the floorboard rot on the Sundance, but it'll be nice to work with something that's solid underneath from the start.

I guess I'll put the Sundance back together with the stock head and turbo from the Spirit and give it to John for the use of his garage and helping with the paint and parts swapping.

[Tony Hanna]

Got a little accomplished on the car over the weekend. Hood's been stripped, sanded, treated with phosphoric acid and bodywork has begun on the dings, sanding gouges, and low spots from the rust pitting. Trunk lid is stripped, acid treated, and ready for filler. John pulled the front bumper cover off and we found some wreck damage that we hadn't noticed before. It's nothing major, but the fender is dented under the bumper cover, the pass. front door has had the skin replaced, and the pass. rear door has quite a bit of filler in it. It was a good enough job that I probably never would have noticed it if John hadn't got into the filler while sanding off the leftover adhesive from the door moldings. I'm trying to decide between cutting it all out and trying to get the metal reshaped so it doesn't take as much filler or just going with what's there. Since it's just a door and easy enough to replace, I'll probably just go with it for now and replace later if necessary.
We got a nice little surprise when John pulled the GFX off. The rocker panels are solid. Even the metal pieces that the GFX attach to are in good shape.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00051.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00052.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00053.jpg

[WickedShelby88]

That looks VERY promising to say the least. Way to go Tony!

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks!
We didn't get near as much accomplished as I'd hoped but getting rid of the rust was a lot more time consuming than I'd anticipated. John's compressor won't keep up with his DA so a good bit of time was wasted waiting on it to catch up. Tiff is going out of town tomorrow and I'm going to head back up there so I can work on it some while John is at work this week. Hopefully once the roof is done, things will progress a little faster.:)

[RoadWarrior222]

You might improve that a tad if you redo all the line connections with teflon tape in them. Seemed like I was only getting 30 secs every 5 mins out of my compressor+impact wrench, I'd got a couple of extensions on and it was kinda leaky. Went through the whole line, compressor to tool and redid all the fittings, and then was getting a minute of use out of every 2, which was a lot better.

[Tony Hanna]

He's recently done just that. Well, the liquid PTFE anyway. Before, it was causing the compressor to cycle every once in awhile even with nothing on it. Now it's sealed up pretty good except for the disconnects on a couple tools that don't fit the coupler just right(the DA seals up good though).

I really need to order the rebuild kit for the compressor I have. It's a little bigger than his, but still not quite big enough to run a DA constantly. I bet both of them manifolded into a single hose would work great though.:thumb:
It's a shame I can't just walk into Sears and buy a new sleeve and ring for it.:(

[capev86]

if you are in a hurry.....sandblaster is the only way to go. probably a good idea to use fine media or preferably something softer than sand (glass beads, nut shells, etc).

if the car needed a complete restore (serious undercarraige rust) then stripping it down to a bare shell and acid dipping would be the foolproof method

either way....some primer reinforced with zinc will slow down new rust growth (they coat boat motor tail shafts with zinc to protect from salt water). i hear they make weld-through zinc primer now....but your car doesn't need any drastic repair inside body panels.

[Bardo]

please keep us updated. im going to use this as a refence for my car

[Tony Hanna]

if you are in a hurry.....sandblaster is the only way to go. probably a good idea to use fine media or preferably something softer than sand (glass beads, nut shells, etc).

if the car needed a complete restore (serious undercarraige rust) then stripping it down to a bare shell and acid dipping would be the foolproof method

either way....some primer reinforced with zinc will slow down new rust growth (they coat boat motor tail shafts with zinc to protect from salt water). i hear they make weld-through zinc primer now....but your car doesn't need any drastic repair inside body panels.

I'm fairly impressed with the way the phosphoric acid has been working. It's slow, but the results are nice clean metal with the exception of the pits. In the pits, it leaves a layer of iron phosphate as a barrier to keep any remaining rust sealed up and dormant (or if you don't mind spending the time, you can work with the acid and steel wool to get it all). I have seen something similar to the zinc that you're talking about. We use a "cold galvanizing compound" some at work which is really just a zinc rich paint. It seems to do a decent job.:thumb:


please keep us updated. im going to use this as a refence for my car Sure thing! I've got some pics from last weekend I need to get uploaded (probably tomorrow). All the major rust removal is done finally. The roof was a real pain. I've never seen rust like it. I went as far as to try a 36 grit sanding disc on an angle grinder and that wouldn't cut it.:eek: It would immediately clog the disc and start polishing the rust shiny. I ended up having to wetsand all the rust off of the roof with 80 grit and acid instead of water. The acid did a really good job of softening up the rust so that the 80 would cut it, but I still had a solid 8 hours in getting it done. Once that was finished, the work seemed to progress considerably faster. It's still not under primer, but it's really close to being ready.:thumb:

Tony

[WickedShelby88]

This why I CANT stand when people let the paint flake off and don't do something to hide the rust. It just makes them look worse by letting it go... MOST people don't ever seem to contemplate they too can stop their car from being a pile of crusty ----! I wish I had a dollar for every time I saw a nice arse car that had paint starting to bubble around the wheel well of somewhere else back in the 80's.. The sad but true about is most of the rust we see now could have been prevented.. Now your car definitely demonstrates just how much of a biotch it is when people let it go for WAYYY too long.

[Tony Hanna]

This why I CANT stand when people let the paint flake off and don't do something to hide the rust. It just makes them look worse by letting it go... MOST people don't ever seem to contemplate they too can stop their car from being a pile of crusty ----! I wish I had a dollar for every time I saw a nice arse car that had paint starting to bubble around the wheel well of somewhere else back in the 80's.. The sad but true about is most of the rust we see now could have been prevented.. Now your car definitely demonstrates just how much of a biotch it is when people let it go for WAYYY too long.

Oh I agree 100%. The sad part is if that car had spent it's entire life in WV, it wouldn't have ever been allowed to get that bad. People here fear rust because rust holes = no inspection sticker. You're likely to see a lot of bad spray can paint jobs, and bondo, but very little exposed metal rusting away like that here.

One nice thing out of all this though: I'd much rather fight rust out in the open where I can see it and get to it easy than under the car and hiding inside panels where it's already done a bunch of damage before you notice it.:nod:

I need to quit being lazy and upload some of the pictures from last weekend. I'll get started on that and post them up later this evening.:thumb:

[Tony Hanna]

Ok, as promised, more progress pics:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00054.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00055.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00057.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00058.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00059.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00060.jpg

Hopefully I'll have some of the car under primer by next week.:thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

looking good tony.

shoot, if i knew you were going to get a spirit, id have sold you mine for cheap. super clean underneath and waaaaay less roof rust. its an R/T too but with a 2.5L 8v in it.

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

looking good tony.

shoot, if i knew you were going to get a spirit, id have sold you mine for cheap. super clean underneath and waaaaay less roof rust. its an R/T too but with a 2.5L 8v in it.

Brian

Thanks! The sad part is, I didn't know I was going to get a Spirit either:lol:. I was hooked when we went to look at it though. Broke my heart to see it sitting there with a good running engine, solid floorboards, a nice interior, and the top side rusting away like that.:( Another big selling point was that being an ES, it looks a lot like an R/T, but with the 8v engine I have plenty of spares for.:) And, since it's an '89, all the ECU related stuff is the same as the Sundance. The $200 price tag didn't hurt much either.:D

Tony

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah i hear ya on the not planning on getting another car lol.

i just picked up another motorcycle for free. 84 kaw kz440 lol.

Brian

[RoadWarrior222]

Motorcycles are easier to hide :nod:

[Tony Hanna]

yeah i hear ya on the not planning on getting another car lol.

i just picked up another motorcycle for free. 84 kaw kz440 lol.

Brian

Nice!
John and I are actually considering starting a little side business buying old bikes cheap that have been sitting neglected, returning them to running condition, and then reselling. With gas prices the way they have been, I bet it'll be a profitable little business if we ever get it off the ground.:)

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah that would be a decent side business.

this last bike just hasnt been ridden. its in good shape.

unfortunately my KZ1000 in the garage isnt in that good of shape and alot of the parts are in boxes. but at least ill have something to ride while i work on the kz. :)

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

yeah that would be a decent side business.

this last bike just hasnt been ridden. its in good shape.

unfortunately my KZ1000 in the garage isnt in that good of shape and alot of the parts are in boxes. but at least ill have something to ride while i work on the kz. :)

Brian

KZ1000's are fun bikes! I traded an old Chevy Blazer for one when I was 13 or 14. Didn't have a license then obviously so I used to cruise around the local back roads, logging roads, and sometimes even atv trails on it.:eek:

[Aries_Turbo]

they are heavy bikes. i bet that was a handful lol.

i might put a street/trail tire on the 440 and ride a few easy trails. :)

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

they are heavy bikes. i bet that was a handful lol.

i might put a street/trail tire on the 440 and ride a few easy trails. :)

Brian

Not too bad. I stuck to the really tame, well maintained stuff with it though.:)
At that age I was just happy to be riding. Didn't really matter where or what kind of bike.

[Tony Hanna]

More pics.

First coat of primer:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00065.jpg
First round of primer sanding and taking care of some spots we missed with the bodywork:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00069.jpg
Second coat of primer:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00070.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00071.jpg
John's on the hunt for any more defects we need to fix before the final sand 'n spray.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00072.jpg

That's where we left it this evening. I'm going back Thursday night and we're going to spend a 3 day weekend finishing up any leftover details and getting it under paint.

[135sohc]

Nice work. burns me no end when I see people just letting a solid car rot away like that. when spending $10 on a can of rustoleum and a brush would do wonders for it and keep it from getting so bad

[black86glhs]

Nice work between you and John. Thankfully, my S's previous owner was pretty good about hitting it with some paint when he saw something.:hail:

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks guys!
Bought the paint over the weekend too. My usual budget paint job for a driver consists of spraying Rustoleum (oil base enamel) thinned with mineral spirits. That works pretty well for a sub-$50 paint job but I wanted to try something a little different this time while sticking with the low budget theme. It is a $200 car after all.:)

This time around I'm going with some oil base enamel "truck and trailer paint" from Valspar, thinning it with naphtha and using hardener. I didn't even know that they made hardener for oil base enamel so I was pretty stoked to run across some at the Marietta TSC store.
My 2 main gripes with oil based enamel paint has always been that the paint lays wet too long, and it's a little soft even when fully cured. Hopefully this time around the naphtha will let it flash faster and the hardener will keep it from curing quite as soft. On the bright side, I only overshot my $50 materials budget for the paint, reducer, and hardener by $4.97. So, if it turns out crappy, I can always sand it off and go back to what I know works.

[omni_840]

Looking good :nod:

[Aries_Turbo]

my daytona is getting a rustoleum job. :) probably my spirit too.

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

my daytona is getting a rustoleum job. :) probably my spirit too.

Brian

Is your Spirit red? I'd have to look at it again, but as I recall, the Rustoleum "Regal Red" was pretty close to the code PRB "Radiant Fire" used on the Spirit R/T's.:)

Oil base enamel honestly doesn't look bad. As with anything else, it's 90% in the prep work. I've had people gripe at me for using oil base instead of single stage acrylic or base/clear, but after they see the result and hear the advantages, they usually change their mind. Aside from the price, one of the main things I really like about it is the availability. If you need to repaint a panel on a Sunday when all the auto paint places are closed, no problem. Just stop by your local Lowes, Home Depot, TSC, Walmart, etc.:thumb:
It's also pretty durable, and doesn't chip as easy as regular auto paint. It is a little softer and will scratch easier, but that also makes it easier to polish the scratches out.

[Aries_Turbo]

mine is white. i dont have any pics online.

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

mine is white. i dont have any pics online.

Brian

Well, that's what mine is going back to, so I should be able to get some pics of how close the Valspar stuff is to the "bright white" Chrysler paint since John's Lebaron is the same color (same code).:)

As I recall, the Rustoleum brand white tends to have a very slight yellow tint to it where alot of automotive white paints have a very slight blue tint. If a person was real worried about it, and could find somebody to tint the paint, this would be easy to fix.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah im not worrying about getting my spirit perfect. just not looking like a leper would be fine. :)

rustoleum red in a rattle can at walmart is almost exactly the same red as my geo metro. :)

Brian

[Tony Hanna]

yeah im not worrying about getting my spirit perfect. just not looking like a leper would be fine. :)

rustoleum red in a rattle can at walmart is almost exactly the same red as my geo metro. :)

Brian

That's why I wasn't too worried about getting an exact match on mine. I doubt anybody will even notice the difference unless it's parked right beside another white one, and anything is better than the condition it was in when we started.:)

I think they've got at least a couple different shades of red. The "regal red" is the one I'm thinking would be a pretty good substitute for the PRB code used on the red Spirit R/Ts and others. That's from memory of a car I painted with it years ago though, so I may be wrong. It's just a touch darker than the typical "Hello officer!" bright red that you see a lot on recent cars.

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

The Spirit is once again white!:D Well, mostly anyway. We're working on the front bumper cover, door handles, the panel that goes between the back glass and deck lid, the GFX, and fuel filler door now.

The painting started out a little iffy, with John mixing the paint like acrylic, and it running off the car when he started cutting in the seams. No harm done though, a little thinner on a rag and we were ready for round 2. I didn't realize that he hadn't sprayed oil base before, so he didn't know that it has to be mixed a little thicker. Since my last few paint jobs were done using oil base, I took over from there, and off we went. Over all I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. There are a couple small runs, a bunch of dirt nibs, and a spot in the hood from a giant mutant house fly but nothing that won't be fine after wet sanding and polishing.:thumb:

We're getting ready to paint the small parts now and I'll post the pics I've got later this evening once we're finished.:)

Tony

[Mario]

Before and after pics are always nice. I wish I took more pics of my projects in the garage.

[Tony Hanna]

Before and after pics are always nice. I wish I took more pics of my projects in the garage.

I usually don't even bother to take pics and end up regretting it later. This time around I decided to make sure that wasn't the case.:)

And, speaking of pics, here are a few more!
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00075.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00076.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00077.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00078.jpg

Some of the slats were broken out of the grill and John had the idea of cutting the rest of them out and backing it with a piece of black painted perforated metal. He's smoothing the inside of the grill up with a die grinder where the slats were cut in this pic.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00081.jpg

His little girl even volunteered to help. Here she is painting the perforated metal. Possible future TM owner/mechanic right there.:nod::thumb:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00082.jpg

Here's a pic of it together. The grill shell wasn't painted at that point, but we put it together temporarily to get an idea how it would look. I think it turned out great. Looks good and saved buying a new grill. I'm glad he thought of that.:)
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00083.jpg

That's it for now. I let John take over the painting on the bumper cover and the rest of the individual parts. He's got the hang of spraying the oil base now and they turned out great.:thumb: They're drying now and I'll get some pics of them tomorrow.

Tony

[RoadWarrior222]

One thing you need to be aware of when using a fine mesh is that it will aerodynamically "block" at higher speeds. This is good for reducing drag, but can make for cooling problems. I'm not all that familiar with how the bumper, grille and rad is set up on a Spirit. Some older cars are set up to need cooling through the grille above the bumper, but you'll notice a lot of newer cars, the main air feed for the rad at speed comes through the bottom of the bumper, and the "grille" is mostly cosmetic and helps while sitting in traffic. The stock grille may "block" at highway speed anyway so you might not notice a difference if it was designed to cool from the bottom.

Anyway, having done that, make sure it can get air into the rad from underneath still, or you'll run into highway cooling issues.

[Tony Hanna]

I'll keep an eye on the temperature and if it looks like it's trying to heat up, I'll pull the perforated metal out and run it open. We epoxied bolts into the center bar on the back side of the grill and it's held together with nuts and washers, so no big deal to pull it back out if I want to do without it, or even cut a new insert out of a piece with larger holes.:)

Thanks,
Tony

[TurbododgePirate]

Wow, just really wow. Love the budget theme..... I may have to consider this with my D100 pickup.

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks! I think it's the hardener that made all the difference. The other cars I've painted with oil base came out glossy, but not like this.

[TurbododgePirate]

Tony,

I was wondering you you could answer some quick questions.

Did you use a typical auto primer, or something else?

Can you tell us more about the oil based paint and hardener? Is this stuff meant to be put on a metal surface, like a truck, trailer, car? Does it wetsand/polish like a normal paint? Where can I find out about colors that are available?

How do you like the hardness so far (I assume it will harden more as it cures)

Thanks!!!~~Heath

EDIT: Just did some searching.... This look right? http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10551&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&pageSize=20&beginIndex=0&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&error1=&ip_text=trailer+paint&ip_textHH=trailer+paint&ip_requestUri=TopCategoriesDisplay&ip_categoryId=&ip_mode=&ip_perPage=20

OOh, gonna have to check out the blue!!!

[Tony Hanna]

Tony,

I was wondering you you could answer some quick questions.

Did you use a typical auto primer, or something else?

Typical auto primer. Hi Prime Hotrod Black to be specific. Nothing special about it, just regular sandable lacquer base automotive primer.



Can you tell us more about the oil based paint and hardener? Is this stuff meant to be put on a metal surface, like a truck, trailer, car? Does it wetsand/polish like a normal paint? Where can I find out about colors that are available?

It's intended for metal. Basically the same thing as Rustoleum (and I would assume other brands of "rust paint"). It wetsands and polishes like regular automotive paint but there are a couple things to keep in mind. It takes considerably longer to fully cure than acrylic enamel and (without the hardener at least) is a little softer when cured. This was a bit of an experiment in that it's the first time I've ever used hardener with this type of paint, so I'm not real sure yet how much of an effect the hardener has had other than the visible improvement in gloss. I should be able to tell something when I wetsand and polish it. As for colors, there's a pretty good variety available and I've heard that some places will tint it to match a particular color (though I've never had this done). I would guess metallics and pearls are probably out of the question (never seen any).



How do you like the hardness so far (I assume it will harden more as it cures)

Thanks!!!~~Heath

It's really kind of hard to tell (pardon the pun) at this point. I was still being pretty careful around it last weekend giving it time to fully cure. I do know that without hardener, it's a little softer than regular automotive paint, but not much. It's a little easier to scratch, but the scratches are easier to buff out too.:) Even without the hardener, you don't have to be especially careful with it or treat it different, it will just benefit from a polish and wax a little more often than regular automotive paint. For me that's a couple or three times a year instead of never.:)



EDIT: Just did some searching.... This look right? http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10551&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&pageSize=20&beginIndex=0&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&error1=&ip_text=trailer+paint&ip_textHH=trailer+paint&ip_requestUri=TopCategoriesDisplay&ip_categoryId=&ip_mode=&ip_perPage=20

OOh, gonna have to check out the blue!!!

That's the stuff.:thumb: The Rustoleum brand is a little more widely available and basically the same paint if you're looking for a better selection of colors. The hardener I used was listed for oil base enamels, so I would assume it would work fine with other brands as well.
A little bit of advice I'd add for selecting colors. When you settle on a color you think is perfect, buy a quart of it and paint a test panel so that you can see what it looks like on something. If it turns out that you really don't like the color, you're only out the price of a quart ($8 or so) and if you do like it, then you've got some spare paint for touchups later.:thumb:

Tony

[RoadWarrior222]

Well what's weird is you can usually get metallics in a hammered finish version of those rust paints. You can also usually get a smooth silver/aluminum. I mixed up a silver and blue once a long while back for slapping on a bicycle and it came out kind of pearly/swirly rather than metallic.

[Tony Hanna]

Well what's weird is you can usually get metallics in a hammered finish version of those rust paints. You can also usually get a smooth silver/aluminum. I mixed up a silver and blue once a long while back for slapping on a bicycle and it came out kind of pearly/swirly rather than metallic.

I've seen the silver/aluminum that you're talking about, but never fooled with oil base version. If it's like the stuff that you can buy in a spray can, it separates really easy and leaves you with a sort of metallic gray if you get any kind of solvent on it after it's dried.

[omni_840]

Looking good, +1 on the before and after pics. When are you planning on having her on the road?

[RoadWarrior222]

Yeah, I think by itself that silver doesn't usually end up an even color, even if you stir the bejasus out of it, you get gray and bright patches, looks more like a weird kind of galvanized finish in the end.

[Tony Hanna]

Looking good, +1 on the before and after pics. When are you planning on having her on the road?
I'd like to have it back together by this weekend. I need to get that done at least so John can back it out if he needs to use his garage. It might be awhile before it's ready for the road though. I need to pull the top end off of the Sundance and swap it over, figure out something for an intercooler, buy an exhaust, get the wideband switched from the Sundance, do the valvebody mods to the auto or switch to a 5spd so it will have a transmission that will live, etc. Lots of work to be done yet, but I'm running out of money to do it. I've been doing all of this off of an unemployment check so far planning to go back to work once it's finished but I may have to put it on hold and take a short term job or two to build the bank account back up.:)

Yeah, I think by itself that silver doesn't usually end up an even color, even if you stir the bejasus out of it, you get gray and bright patches, looks more like a weird kind of galvanized finish in the end.
That sounds about like the stuff I remember. Real similar to the "chrome" spray paint that you can buy.:nod:

[Tony Hanna]

Well, it's 99% back together. I just lack the side moldings and mirrors of being finished with the body. It took some fabrication to get the sunroof back in. The original hinge tabs were rusted almost to nothing. Luckily one of them retained enough of it's shape to allow John to reproduce a pair. Did I mention he does good work?:D
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00086.jpg

It was dark outside by the time I got a chance to take some pictures so I tried to do the best I could in the garage.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00094.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00090.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00091.jpg
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00092.jpg

[Pat]

Looks great!

[135sohc]

Wow, looks great :thumb: when can I bring mine in ??

[RoadWarrior222]

Kinda hard to believe it's the same car :D Those shots show off the finish pretty well actually, the gleam of the shop light in the hood for instance.

[omni_840]

Looks awesome! I think the grill turned out nice too :nod:

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks guys!
It's definitely not perfect since we rushed some of the body work to get it under paint before the cold weather set in for good. I'm still really happy with it though. I can't wait to wet sand it to get rid of some of the orange peel and polish/wax it. That's probably going to wait until the weather starts warming up next spring. For now, I'm going to get the moldings painted to match and installed, and then move to the interior. It's in good shape, just a little dirty and the headliner sags. I'd like to pull the seats and carpet to make everything easier to clean and also give me a chance to inspect the floor from the inside. It looks solid from underneath, so hopefully there won't be anything to find (except maybe the build sheet :)).

I could use some suggestions on what to do about the droopy headliner. That's one repair that I've never had to tackle before.:confused2:

Thanks,
Tony

[jamesmonty]

Looks great! Wish I had my spirit back.

[Tony Hanna]

Looks great! Wish I had my spirit back.
Thanks!:)

[Bardo]

man that looks sexy. i cant wait till i get done with the baron so i can start on mine s r/t

[Tony Hanna]

man that looks sexy. i cant wait till i get done with the baron so i can start on mine s r/t

Thanks! You going to do a progress thread on it? Initially I figured I'd post a few pics before, and a few pics after and call it good. It's turned out to be really fun documenting each step of the process though.:thumb:

[TurbododgePirate]

I could use some suggestions on what to do about the droopy headliner. That's one repair that I've never had to tackle before.:confused2:

Thanks,
Tony


Tony, IN my opinion the headliner in those cars are a pain in the ---. They are a fiberglass like backing material that rips easily. remove all the trim and be super duper careful because the damned clips break like twigs. If you have a local U pull it to practice at, go do it, and develop your technique. You will notice there is no trim where the headliner meets the rear window, on the backing of the headliner are 2 velcro-like strips that interlock to hold it securely into place. I don't remember if the front is the same or not.

If I were doing it, I would take it out, peel off the fabric from the backing carefully and brush it with a nylon brush of some sort until all the degraded foam is gone. Get 3M SUPER trim adhesive from pep boys, autozone, walmart, or the like(The super strong stulf, other stuff is crap)and new headliner material from JoAnn Fabrics. Look online for a coupon, or go into the store and buy something small and ask to get on the mailing list. Almost every month they have a coupon that will discount your fabric purchase by 20-40% (It will save you a bundle)

If you tear the fiberglass backing (I did and was super careful) I have been told to use fiberglass mat, and fiberglass resin to make the fix. I dunno.

[Tony Hanna]

Tony, IN my opinion the headliner in those cars are a pain in the ---. They are a fiberglass like backing material that rips easily. remove all the trim and be super duper careful because the damned clips break like twigs. If you have a local U pull it to practice at, go do it, and develop your technique. You will notice there is no trim where the headliner meets the rear window, on the backing of the headliner are 2 velcro-like strips that interlock to hold it securely into place. I don't remember if the front is the same or not.

If I were doing it, I would take it out, peel off the fabric from the backing carefully and brush it with a nylon brush of some sort until all the degraded foam is gone. Get 3M SUPER trim adhesive from pep boys, autozone, walmart, or the like(The super strong stulf, other stuff is crap)and new headliner material from JoAnn Fabrics. Look online for a coupon, or go into the store and buy something small and ask to get on the mailing list. Almost every month they have a coupon that will discount your fabric purchase by 20-40% (It will save you a bundle)

If you tear the fiberglass backing (I did and was super careful) I have been told to use fiberglass mat, and fiberglass resin to make the fix. I dunno.

Thanks! I've got the fiberglass resin and hardener, I just need to get some of the mat, the spray glue, and the new fabric. I'd done a little bit of reading over at allpar (there are a few articles on headliner replacement) and I think I understand how to get the new fabric glued in place smoothly. From what I read there, and what you've said, it looks like getting the backing board out and back in in one piece without damaging it or the trim is going to be the real challenge.

Thanks,
Tony

[TurbododgePirate]

Yes, Tony, Also on those sunroof hinge tabs. Originally they were coated in plastic. If you want to do the same thing you can get some plasti-dip from Lowes or home depot. People use it to coat metal tool grips and stuff. The black should make it look near stock, and last longer.

[Tony Hanna]

Yes, Tony, Also on those sunroof hinge tabs. Originally they were coated in plastic. If you want to do the same thing you can get some plasti-dip from Lowes or home depot. People use it to coat metal tool grips and stuff. The black should make it look near stock, and last longer.

That's a good Idea! I just painted them semi-gloss black and installed them, but the plasti-dip sounds like it would be much more durable.:nod: Which section at Lowes would it be in? I can never find stuff in that place.:o

I had planned to ask John to cut them out of stainless but I completely forgot to mention it to him and he ended up making them out of mild steel.

Thanks,
Tony

[Speedeuphoria]

The headliner will come out, but it is a pain to wiggle it out, recline the seats all the way to help.

That rubberized tool dip stuff works pretty good from what I've seen. My buddy used it on some gutter guard mesh(looks like that ricer grille mesh) so its was black and looks good and held up good, he used it on his '00 black mustang for all the openings in the front bumper area.

[Tony Hanna]

The plan is to pull the seats and carpet to make them easier to completely clean and to give me a chance to inspect the floorboards from the inside. I'll probably go ahead and do the headliner then so the seats won't be in the way.:thumb:

I'll look for some of the rubberized stuff the next time I'm at Lowes. I'm guessing that since it's intended for coating tool handles, it should be around the tools somewhere right?

Thanks,
Tony

[TurbododgePirate]

The plan is to pull the seats and carpet to make them easier to completely clean and to give me a chance to inspect the floorboards from the inside. I'll probably go ahead and do the headliner then so the seats won't be in the way.:thumb:

I'll look for some of the rubberized stuff the next time I'm at Lowes. I'm guessing that since it's intended for coating tool handles, it should be around the tools somewhere right?

Thanks,
Tony

I think it is in paints. I think.

[Tony Hanna]

Great, Thanks!

[TurbododgePirate]

Thank you for your very informative posts! Hope you can make it up to a Steelsities SDAC meet some day! We may also have another local dodge club starting up as well. I'll let you know.

[Tony Hanna]

Thank you for your very informative posts! Hope you can make it up to a Steelsities SDAC meet some day! We may also have another local dodge club starting up as well. I'll let you know.

You're welcome! I've really enjoyed this project so far, and documenting it here has been a big part of that. I'd love to make it up for a meet one of these days.:nod:

Tony

[Tony Hanna]

No more body/paint related pictures to post at this point. We made new vapor barriers for the doors, installed a set of cheap walmart speakers to replace the rotten stockers, bolted the mirrors back on, and reinstalled the door panels. Also threw in a CD player, fixed the exhaust where the cat had been stolen while the car was sitting, bolted on the 16" pumpers from the Sundance, changed the oil, and got the map sensor code 13 sorted out.

Got to take it for a couple short test drives Sunday, and the transmission is pretty ill.:( It doesn't want to downshift to first. It'll take off in second or third gear (not sure which) from a dead stop unless the shifter is put in first manually. If first is selected manually, it will shudder a little bit and then it's fine other than being impossible to force a downshift with the throttle (even after adjusting the cable). Shifts seem to be pretty crisp when manually shifting through the gears, so I'm hopeful that it's a sticky valve and the clutches/bands are in decent shape.

This is where we left off Sunday night. Valvebody and governor are out awaiting a thorough cleaning and deburring/polishing if any valves are found to be hanging in their bores. I'm also planning to do the usual TM DIY shift kit as well as Chad Kilback's line pressure mod while it's apart.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/823/p_00095.jpg

[TurbododgePirate]

Tony, Somewhere there are directions for installing a drain plug. If you get the chance its a good idea.

[TurbododgePirate]

I also looked at the selection of paints at TSC and WOW!! Plenty to choose from. I don't know if I want to put ford blue on my dodge though.

[Tony Hanna]

Tony, Somewhere there are directions for installing a drain plug. If you get the chance its a good idea.

I think I've got one of those 3 piece drain plug setups where you use a hollow bolt and a nut on the pan and the drain plug threads into the hollow bolt. I need to find it before I go back up there this weekend.:)


I also looked at the selection of paints at TSC and WOW!! Plenty to choose from. I don't know if I want to put ford blue on my dodge though.

A little bit of white with it and it could be Petty blue? I don't see any reason why you couldn't mix your own color. You'd just want to keep track of what colors you used and the proportions so you could duplicate it in the future if you needed to repaint a panel or do some touch ups.:)

[TurbododgePirate]

Any more updates Tony??

[Aemun]

I bought this car from Tony.

[Aries_Turbo]

cool. make it fast. :)

Brian