I need a map done please.

[turbovanman]

Curious to the differences of a 50 trim wheel vs a Super50 wheel on the van.

T3/T4, stage III turbine, .63 housing, ported head and manni, 4.5L intake plenum.


And a stock R/T with a stage II wheel.

[cordes]

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=450&engine_disp=2.5&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=11&bfsc=0.48&max_ic_loss=1.7&rpm_redline=6500&rpm_peak_power=5500&rpm_max_boost=3800&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=57&map_sel1=58

That is probably close.

[turbovanman]

Thanks, pretty cool.

Looks like the S50 wheel is perfect at 27 psi, :clap:

[Ondonti]

I changed your redline to 7k
Neither looks good with the stuff cordes imputed.

the normal 50 trim looks better actually.

Honestly, I think that the super 50 trim is a better 8 valve turbo then a 16valve turbo. The S50 is cool because it enjoys higher boost levels....which is what the 8v needs to make that kinda power. The 16v flies off the right side of the map before turning the wick up all the way.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=450&engine_disp=2.5&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=11&bfsc=0.48&max_ic_loss=1.7&rpm_redline=7000&rpm_peak_power=5500&rpm_max_boost=3800&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=57&map_sel1=58

I added a little bit of lag (4500rpm max boost) and this is how they compare with a 3582
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=450&engine_disp=2.5&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=11&bfsc=0.48&max_ic_loss=1.7&rpm_redline=7000&rpm_peak_power=5500&rpm_max_boost=4500&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=42&map_sel1=57&map_sel2=58

[Clay]

Simon is running a 2.5L, do you really think it will rev very well to 7K, AND still make any usable power?

Of the turbos shown, the S50 still looks the best, regardless of who put the numbers in.

[cordes]

Simon is running a 2.5L, do you really think it will rev very well to 7K, AND still make any usable power?

Of the turbos shown, the S50 still looks the best, regardless of who put the numbers in.

If he can move some air, I would think he should be able to make power up there. I didn't know what all he had done port work wise which is why I kept the BSFC up higher and the red line lower.

[turbovanman]

I've gone thru the traps at 7500 rpm, :o

[Ondonti]

exactly why I changed it ;)

I think you guys need to understand that high efficiency parts of the map are more important after full boost then while you are building boost. It really doesnt matter how efficient the turbo is while boost is building cause hopefully you are not racing at half boost etc.

You want the highest efficiency at the times when you are most likely to detonate and when you want power to be the strongest.

[turbovanman]

So what are you saying? the S50 wheel will act poorly at part throttle or low boost?

[Ondonti]

So what are you saying? the S50 wheel will act poorly at part throttle or low boost?

no.

The s50 wheel runs right throught he middle of the map during ramp up, and then goes off the map.


The 50 wheel goes to the left of the middle during ramp up, and then crosses the middle while you are actually making your big HP.

You have a drag racing setup, so you want mid/high rpms ranges to jive with the compressor map, not boost ramp up. Whats the point of having 78% efficiency in the RPM's you dont race at?

I am saying that unless you need the extra PSI potencial (you dont because you are a 16v) to create HP, the S50 is not superior.

Now since your old wheel was all messed up, you might have a difference with a properly functioning wheel.

[turbovanman]

no.

The s50 wheel runs right throught he middle of the map during ramp up, and then goes off the map.


The 50 wheel goes to the left of the middle during ramp up, and then crosses the middle while you are actually making your big HP.

You have a drag racing setup, so you want mid/high rpms ranges to jive with the compressor map, not boost ramp up. Whats the point of having 78% efficiency in the RPM's you dont race at?

I am saying that unless you need the extra PSI potencial (you dont because you are a 16v) to create HP, the S50 is not superior.

Now since your old wheel was all messed up, you might have a difference with a properly functioning wheel.

Ok, unless you have the maps mixed up, you have the regular 50 trim hugging the surge line and goes past 78%, then you have the S50 wheel line to the right and in the middle of the 78% area. I am still learning about maps but that last map seems like thats what you should be looking for????

[cordes]

Ok, unless you have the maps mixed up, you have the regular 50 trim hugging the surge line and goes past 78%, then you have the S50 wheel line to the right and in the middle of the 78% area. I am still learning about maps but that last map seems like thats what you should be looking for????

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php?version=4&target_peak_power=450&engine_disp=2.5&engine_disp_factor=0&target_af=11&bfsc=0.48&max_ic_loss=1.7&rpm_redline=7500&rpm_peak_power=5500&rpm_max_boost=4500&rpm_min_boost=3000&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&vol_1=89&vol_2=93&vol_3=90&vol_4=87&intake_temp_1=90&intake_temp_2=120&intake_temp_3=135&intake_temp_4=140&turbo_n=1&map_sel0=42&map_sel1=57&map_sel2=58

I changed the red line to 7500 to help illustrate the point. The dots on the line are every 1K RPM look at where you are on the maps from 5K on.

[turbovanman]

Ok, so again, excuse the ignorance but which one looks the best? To me, I think having the line in the middle is better???

Also, will the S50 suck at lower boost? This is a daily driver too, when it runs, :o

If the S50 isn't going to work for my setup, I can just put the 50 trim wheel back in.

[cordes]

Ok, so again, excuse the ignorance but which one looks the best? To me, I think having the line in the middle is better???

Also, will the S50 suck at lower boost? This is a daily driver too, when it runs, :o

If the S50 isn't going to work for my setup, I can just put the 50 trim wheel back in.

The part that is important is where the line is when you are going to be making your power. In the case of the graphs I just posted this is theoretically between 4500 and 7500RPM. Look at the line from those points (where it is flat) in regard to the efficiency. The GT35 looks to be the most efficient although it does go to the left of the surge line for a brief period. The regular 50 trim looks to be a little more efficient since you will stay on the map longer.

I really think that without real world testing it is open to a great degree of conjecture which turbo will perform the best with your setup. I have seen enough dyno results with turbos that shouldn't do what they did to know that there can be a significant fudge factor in the maps.