Hypothetical build

[t3rse]

I've been planning my god build for a while now. I know what platform I'm going to use (mid engine) but I can't decide on the power plant. So here it is, what do you guys think?

For starters, the car will be a race car that will be driven on the street, and by race car I do not mean drag racing. As stated, it will be mid engine, and I would like to keep it under 2500# (I'm not yet sure of chassis weight, but I should know in a few days). I want better than 1k whp...preferably closer to 1400. I still need good (reasonable) throttle response, so 4 and 6 bangers probably won't cut it.

This leaves an obvious solution: v10. The problem is that the v10 is close to 700# for the first generations, and closer to 500 for later, but the later gen motors are quite pricey for something I'm going to tear apart. With the nature of mid engine cars, for what I want, 700# isn't going to cut it.

LS1 (or LS whatever): Good light motors, but the aluminum block may not be up to the power I want. Iron version weighs close to viper engine weight.

6.1 hemi: Looking like the most logical solution at the moment. This motor weighs close to the aluminum LS1, and the block is cheap to start with. I'm sure with work it would be up to the task, but I haven't seen anyone making crazy power with one yet...anyone got any info here?

Obviously all these motors (though I would prefer to stick with mopar) will require snails for my target goals, which will add around 200# to total engine weight. I'm planning on doing a dry sump, and it will be mated to a Ricardo or Weismann gear box. The chassis is about 45k and I'd like to keep the whole build under 60k. I would like to start on the motor within the next two years and probably get the chassis in five or six.

So?

[2.216VTurbo]

The fantasy football league is calling you:confused:

[cordes]

Sounds like you would be better off finding an Indy car from when they were turbocharged in the 80s and making it street legal. I bet you could find one for a decent price. A couple of brake lights and you will be all set.

[Speedeuphoria]

http://www.factoryfive.com/gtmhome.html

To me I would start with the chasis

[JuXsA]

you don't think the LS1 could handle your power goals?

[8valves]

Terminator (03+) Cobra 4.6's are fairly light and will handle upwards of 1K wheel stock, as well as the GT driveline which is already dry sump, super strong gearbox, and a stock engine that will support over 1000 WHP as well.

A stone stock LONGBLOCK 96-98 Viper GTS/RT10 motor will do 1K WHP and about 1200 WTQ with no changes, no even a cam or valvesprings with some boost.

I'm not sure if either would make it stock to 1400 level, probably not.

Sounds like a neat project though. That's a lot of power and technology on a 15K budget!

[Force Fed Mopar]

I'd run the 6.1 SRT Hemi or the V10. Plenty of Vipers out there pushing over 1000hp w/o much internal mods. Buy an engine out of a wreck to save money if you are going through it anyway. Maybe try out a sequential turbo set-up to keep responsiveness up.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Talked to a guy that works at a Viper shop in Cali, he says 600-800 hp is the limit for stock Viper internals.

[88_pacifica]

60K ain't gonna be enough unless you are going to put it in a go-cart. Why would you need more than say 700 hp? A twin turboed V8 would do 7-800 fairly easily, but the trans, rearend, and chassis would need a LOT of mods to handle that kind of power unless you did it from the ground up. I would figure out a happy medium because being street legal/efficient/driveable/reliable with those power levels is a bit much...

[8valves]

Talked to a guy that works at a Viper shop in Cali, he says 600-800 hp is the limit for stock Viper internals.

It most certainly depends on the vintage engine. 96-98 Gen II motors will live at over 1000 WHP on a bone stock longblock.

[t3rse]

I think there were some points missed: I will spend more than 15 on the motor alone if need be. This will be a long term project that will be sort of my "finale".

There will be no rear end, just a transaxle, and yes the transaxle will be in the 10k range, and the chassis plenty competent.

For balance, 1400 may be a bit much, but 1k isn't hard to make, but make livable at high stress levels may be a different story.

On the right trail with the factory five, but a different manufacturer and chassis style.

A family friend has a few old turbo indy cars...among other exotic toys, but I'm not sure I want to deal with a museum piece.

Offenhauser turbo 4? lol.

[88_pacifica]

I think there were some points missed: I will spend more than 15 on the motor alone if need be. This will be a long term project that will be sort of my "finale".

There will be no rear end, just a transaxle, and yes the transaxle will be in the 10k range, and the chassis plenty competent.

For balance, 1400 may be a bit much, but 1k isn't hard to make, but make livable at high stress levels may be a different story.

On the right trail with the factory five, but a different manufacturer and chassis style...

Hmmm.... After taking a step back and re-analyzing your request I think the question should be do you have a real preference in mfgr? All the mfgr's have something capable to develop the hp you are shooting for, however, you should decide that first.

Next, after you have made that choice, I would focus on three things and the rest will fall in place: an AFTERMARKET block IS mandatory(World, Dart, etc) for example, as well as a forged rotating assembly, and excellent flowing heads. Without those you are obviously hampered. IF, and I mean IF, you are in search of major power REPEATEDLY, which it sounds like you are, you MUST have looser tolerances in the build process as this motor WILL RUN HOT! I have seen way too much money pissed away on a great set of internals and they built the motor "too tight" and the pistons cracked and destroyed the block AND the crank in addition to the pistons obviously.

Pick a mfgr and a platform(chassis) and I will point you towards a reliable combination. I would seriously look at the high dollar engine buildups in the major mags, but figure in an extra 33% of their speculated "cost" as it inevitably costs more than they say... :nod: ;)

[8valves]

I think there were some points missed: I will spend more than 15 on the motor alone if need be. This will be a long term project that will be sort of my "finale".

There will be no rear end, just a transaxle, and yes the transaxle will be in the 10k range, and the chassis plenty competent.

For balance, 1400 may be a bit much, but 1k isn't hard to make, but make livable at high stress levels may be a different story.

On the right trail with the factory five, but a different manufacturer and chassis style.

A family friend has a few old turbo indy cars...among other exotic toys, but I'm not sure I want to deal with a museum piece.

Offenhauser turbo 4? lol.

My vote still goes for a Ford GT drivetrain then. All of your pieces of the puzzle in a nice, tough, well engineered starting point that has reliably made 1060 WHP/8XX WTQ on a fairly simple setup, with ZERO internal modifications to the LONGBLOCK, or clutch. Your car will be even lighter which will be nice for parts livery. Hell, stock axles live on those things too, so long as you upgrade the axle bolts.