Woot for Dual Diaphragm thanks

[Ondonti]

Opened up the package that was just sent to me. Happy to see it arrive before dyno day saturday.

Chris seemed to think the plate was only going to have 2 straps on it but it has 4 so i am very happy and surprised. Less straps = dead plate on a minor miss-shift.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5457/img3615wo5.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5320/img3616ba6.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1305/img3622zg8.jpg

[Chris W]

Opened up the package that was just sent to me. Happy to see it arrive before dyno day saturday.

Chris seemed to think the plate was only going to have 2 straps on it but it has 4 so i am very happy and surprised. Less straps = dead plate on a minor miss-shift.

We discussed this Brent that's why we added the 2 additional straps for you.:thumb:

Chris-TU

[Ondonti]

I didnt realize that was what happened on the phone but that is what I wanted :P

Im happy to see SACHS brand parts going in my tranny again. I miss my old SACHS plate that I bent the straps on.

[Ondonti]

This clutch is great to drive (for what i want). I did stall 10 times getting out of the driveway cause I had no idea yet what the clutch liked, but after a few minutes driving, I knew I had a no compromises clutch that will hold.
Too bad my starter wiring screwed up on the way to the dyno and hurt something else. I was finally having fun in the car not worried about overpowering the clutch.

[Aries_Turbo]

told ya! ;) hehe

what disk are you using?

how is the pedal pressure?

Brian

[turbovanman²]

I might be a wimp but those things take stupid leg force. Wop'r has one in his Iroc R/T and for a DD, it would be a royal nightmare, :(

[moparzrule]

Nah I had a Dual diaphram is my daily driver daytona a few years ago. It wasn't too bad, I just wouldn't want to get stuck in stop and go traffic too long.

[Ondonti]

told ya! ;) hehe

what disk are you using?

how is the pedal pressure?

Brian

Its pretty insane. Mine is unmodified because My thrust bearings are more robust. 3300# maybe. Whatever it is, its not slipping :P Whenever I push it in, I keep thinking the cable clip is going to explode. I have an extra new cable and 2 clips sitting in the car jsut in case. Ill build a new clip when I figure out the wiring problems.

[Aries_Turbo]

cool :)

yeah id want a modded one so the pedal pressure isnt so bad. i dont ever start the car with the clutch in so im sure that helps.

Brian

[Reaper1]

Mine was completely insane and I did daily drive it until it blew up. I had to modify the clutch arm on the tranny to make it livable.

How far off the floor does it engage?

I've got another friend who also runs a DD and he's modded the clutch arm, but it STILL engages really close to the floor. Once I modeed mine it was more in the stock position.

I tried to NEVER start the car with the clutch pedal in!

[inmyshadow]

I'll never use a double diaphram clutch again in any of my cars. I had a clutchnet clutch kit in my daytona iroc. I use to lose circulation in my left leg when I got stuck in rush hour traffic.

Then there was the snapped clutch cable 300 miles away from home. That was a tough drive home with all the toll booths.

Make sure you have a few spare clutch cables.

[Reaper1]

If you mod the clutch arm the stress on the cable isn't as much. I do agree that a new cable should be on hand or installed ASAP. I also beleive in eliminating the rubber bushing under the cable retainer on the clutch arm in favor of a more solid means of spacing. It not only gets rid of a weak spot, but improves pedal feel!

[moparzrule]

I'll never use a double diaphram clutch again in any of my cars. I had a clutchnet clutch kit in my daytona iroc. I use to lose circulation in my left leg when I got stuck in rush hour traffic.

Then there was the snapped clutch cable 300 miles away from home. That was a tough drive home with all the toll booths.

Make sure you have a few spare clutch cables.

Perhaps your problem was that it was from clutchnet ;)

[Chris W]

I'll never use a double diaphram clutch again in any of my cars. I had a clutchnet clutch kit in my daytona iroc. I use to lose circulation in my left leg when I got stuck in rush hour traffic.

Then there was the snapped clutch cable 300 miles away from home. That was a tough drive home with all the toll booths.

Make sure you have a few spare clutch cables.

As Matt mentioned above, the amount of pedal pressure really depends on who builds the PP, which diaphragms they use and if they modify the fulcrum points or not. There are ways to make dual diaphragm clutches somewhat tolerable in DD applications but the vendor has to be willing to take those extra steps. Most other clutch suppliers don't know how or will not take that extra step for Turbo-Mopar applications without over inflating the price.

Chris-TU

[tryingbe]

My stock pressure plate broke the stock clutch cable at 110k, so, it's not like stock plate wouldn't break the cable.

[moparzrule]

My stock pressure plate broke the stock clutch cable at 110k, so, it's not like stock plate wouldn't break the cable.

Well obviously the cable was faulty in some way then. Any normal healthy clutch cable can stand up to any of TU's plates with zero issues. I'm running TU's blue plate now with the stock cable that came in my 88' shadow which has 170K miles on it. I've run all the plates except the yellow plate, no problems with clutch cables ever, or thrust bearings in case anybody was gonna bring that up. Just don't start the car with the clutch in and you won't have issues.

[Aries_Turbo]

chris, do you do mods to the dual diaphragm plate to make it less hard on the cable/foot?

Brian

[Ondonti]

My coil was jumping to the coolant return hose. Car started. Gay I missed a prepaid dyno day over that.

I havent read the rest of this thread yet :P
I am really pissed the car started. I was hoping for a more dramatic problem to have screwed me over.

[Chris W]

chris, do you do mods to the dual diaphragm plate to make it less hard on the cable/foot?

Brian

Yes, but there are additional charges for the maching and welding to do that. Ondonti declined the mod since he had a deadline for his dyno event and also wanted maximum clamping force.

Chris-TU

[Ondonti]

Chris G, I did think about modifying the arm, but my only idea was to make it a little longer. I dont know if that will require drilling a new hole in the trans.

Mine does fully disengage near the floor. No room to adjust that.

Wouldnt lengthening the arm make that worse?

[Reaper1]

I added around 1" or so to the length of my arm on the tranny. It was enough that I could use the other hole in the boss that's already on the tranny for the clutch cable(basically just use the other hole).

In *my* case lengthening the arm made the issue better. The throw IS longer, but it not only takes less effort on the pedal, but you also end up with a slightly longer engagement point. Now, some of it could have been then I replaced the rubber bushing under the cable retainer with a solid part. It also could have been that the cable was able to adjust more than it was before(but I don't thionk that was the case as I don't remember that happening).

In any case it was WELL worth it for me to do that mod. IT may not be in your case, but I think it's worth a shot!

[Ondonti]

I already use the last hole on the trans for normal clutch cable install........

[Reaper1]

OK, but did you lengthen the clutch arm? The last hole is farther away than the stock location and if you don't you've caused a bind!

[mock_glh]

Chris G, I did think about modifying the arm, but my only idea was to make it a little longer. I dont know if that will require drilling a new hole in the trans.

Mine does fully disengage near the floor. No room to adjust that.

Wouldnt lengthening the arm make that worse?

Yes it would, but there is a cure for that. The pedal throw is pretty short on all these cars except for the L-bodies. To fix that you need to notch the plastic adjuster arm where it hits the stop so the pedal can come up higher.

[Reaper1]

I don't wanna sound like a d*ck, but the clutch pedal throw on our cars is HORRIBLE!! It is VERY long from the factory compared to new cars. For my personal preffernce I don't think I'd want the pedal any higher, but that's me...YMMV

[Ondonti]

I had to move the seat up a tiny bit so I dont think I would want the pedal higher

[mock_glh]

Maybe so but if you want to have any significant leverage against a stiff clutch you're going to have to move your leg a little.:nod:

[Reaper1]

I think a redesigned clutch pedal quadrant would significantly help this issue. The problem is that it would have to be custom made, more than liely out of aluminum and custom machined...so you're talking $$$ there....:(

[mock_glh]

I think a redesigned clutch pedal quadrant would significantly help this issue. The problem is that it would have to be custom made, more than liely out of aluminum and custom machined...so you're talking $$$ there....:(

Yes, a larger radius on the quadrant (I knew there was a name for that thing) plus a longer clutch arm would reduce the strain on the cable while retaining the same pedal throw. It would still be hard to push, though.

[Ondonti]

custom made doesnt mean it would have to be "quality" custom made though :P
You could probably take a stock piece and attach extra material the lazy way. Or do a horrible job on some junk aluminum.

Testing the clutch Friday. 3rd gear burnout wouldnt happen as the tires would spin for about 4 feet and then the engine would bog and the BOV would flutter with turbo surge lol. :P
Much nicer then when i was at the track trying to get the water off my slicks and the engine would stay on the rev limiter when I let off the clutch.
Did some 2nd gear burnouts (no e brake so rolling forward).
Then did a 1 2 3 4 gear run. Almost missed 3rd cause I was trying to be lazy on the heavy clutch. Boiled the brake fluid stopping. Heard a rattle. Then took the car apart, put it back together, accidentally fouled a plug with the coil jumping and it kept fouling so towed it home from bansheenuts.

The clutch is working though :D
It took all the abuse that the rest of the car couldnt handle.

Hoping to get the plug to behave. Gonna turn up the boost to maybe 14-16 depending on what I have the balls to try and make at least 1 more pass this season. Dont care if I hurt the motor because somethings wrong with it right now. Not sure if its valvetrain or main bearings etc. Rod bearings seem to be okay at the moment. I need to get myself in Study mode so the car really isnt important and would be better off broke. Ill throw a stock motor in for the winter as an extra daily.

I haven't made a pass yet this year on a functional clutch.

[Reaper1]

^^I feel ya on that issue!!! :(

[bansheenut420]

After riding in this car with this clutch, its not for a DD. The pedal pressure is insane, but I promise he wont be slipping this one anytime soon. It will be an AWESOME setup for the track. Who needs nice engagement on the track with slicks and 5psi off the line anyway. :D

[Aries_Turbo]

is it a dual turbo diaphragm or TBI?

nice job whittling down the problems. hope to see some higher boost runs.

Brian

[Ondonti]

I dont know what to call it since only 1 diaphragm exists now.

[Ondonti]

It works. Its actually gotten a bit easier then when i first had it. Or I am getting used to it.
1.71 60' and no slip. I guess I didn't need a slipping clutch to get a good 60'

[Reaper1]

OK...so you posted the 60', was that copled to a good run too?! :)

[Ondonti]

OK...so you posted the 60', was that copled to a good run too?! :)

Yeah, I think I already spam'd that enough.

[Ondonti]

clutch spun the slicks through 2nd gear friday night. The opposite of when the slicks used to spin the clutch in 2nd :P

[Reaper1]

^^ LMAO!!! Now if I could get to that point! LOL

[Ondonti]

Since I had my car apart I decided to try to make a few things better if possible.

I just built an extended arm. i left the stock hole intact in case i want to go back. Right not its letting go at the floor (maybe not even fully disengaging since I cant start the car at the moment to find out).
Gonna go buy some washers to use as spacers on top of the trans. I dont use the rubber spacer.

Extended is WAY easier but I dont know if its gonna work out like I want it. My disengage was already near the floor.

Last resort could be to add material to the top of the clutch pedal to make that "arm" longer. But I think that is going to make the clutch harder to push...which isn't the point of this exercise.

[Lotashelbys]

I just built an extended arm. i left the stock hole intact in case i want to go back. Right not its letting go at the floor (maybe not even fully disengaging since I cant start the car at the moment to find out).
Gonna go buy some washers to use as spacers on top of the trans. I dont use the rubber spacer.

Brent
I lengthened an arm on a DD plate car recently and got a shorter(non 568)cable for it. Had to jack up the arm to get the clip on the bottom of the cable but that setup engaged about an inch down from fully out.

[Ondonti]

So what you pretty much did is take all the adjustment out of the auto adjuster. My clutch used to be like that with a different clutch arm but it was a little "too much" and it was riding the clutch.

I am sure if I put more spacers on I could achieve that. I dont think our auto adjuster likes heavy pressure plates.

[Lotashelbys]

I dont think our auto adjuster likes heavy pressure plates.

Neither does the cable ends......

[Ondonti]

At least the longer arm goes easier on them.

[Aries_Turbo]

go to the cable section of home depot and get some cable that will slide into the stock sheath. terminate the cable with a loop at the end using the crimp on thingies. drill the stock pedal for a bolt across it and put it through the loop and secure it on the other side. run the cable up over the quadrant thing and through the sheath and through the hole in the arm. terminate the other end in a creative way so that you can slide washers here and there to take out the slack. you could make some kind of threaded thing too.

if i ever have to run a dual diaphragm, ill be making my own cable.

i made a cable for my nissan sentra cause the old one broke when i was at home depot. :)

Brian

[Ondonti]

I drove it thursday night and the clutched seemed to work good. Maybe better then before. I dont know if it was completely disengaging before because the shifts were really easy with the 1" or so of shims I added. I didnt pay a lot of attention to the clutch pedal though. I will get more feedback on it later. Its definitly a lot easier though.
Before, when I drove that car, if I got in my stock clutch Spirit, it would feel like the stock clutch had snapped the cable because in comparison it felt weightless. This would even happen days later.

[Ondonti]

Thought maybe the clutch was slipping recently on drag radials but we found out that the drag radials "hop" when they are barely breaking loose and vibrate the whole car.

Clutch was able to spin 4th gear from a roll on drag radials a few nights ago.
So it seems to be handling the load so far. Will see what happens when it gets over 500ft/lb in the future.

No problems with the extended arm. Definitely easier on the leg.

[Chris W]

Thought maybe the clutch was slipping recently on drag radials but we found out that the drag radials "hop" when they are barely breaking loose and vibrate the whole car.

Clutch was able to spin 4th gear from a roll on drag radials a few nights ago.
So it seems to be handling the load so far. Will see what happens when it gets over 500ft/lb in the future.

No problems with the extended arm. Definitely easier on the leg.

Glad to hear the clutch is working well for you. I m sure it will hold up at 500 ft/lbs also.:thumb: Keep us informed.

Happy Holidays!

Chris-TU

[Ondonti]

Well I calculated it "should' hold well over 800ft/lb but Ill never find out lol.

This last year was nice because I only spent money on a pressure plate beyond normal maintenance and small crap.

[Ondonti]

Well I calculated it "should' hold well over 800ft/lb but Ill never find out lol.

This last year was nice because I only spent money on a pressure plate beyond normal maintenance and small crap.