Double-checking my timing set up

[fleckster]

I'm in the middle of installing my new Gates "Made In Italy" timing belt since the old one had 14 teeth ripped off of it and has always been noisy. I have the pins in to align the cams, the tension is off the rocker shafts, the #1 cylinder is up at TDC (the mark on the sprocket is also lined up with a mark on the cover to denote TDC...looks to have been done previously) and I'm slipping the belt into place.

I'm wondering, there is still a fair amount of play in the cams with the pins in and I'm pretty certain that the crank is set at TDC...how can I be 100% sure that I have the shafts and timing all set up exactly right? My biggest fear is that I get this all put back together and it won't start because I'm off just enough or my performance sucks because I'm off on one by a tooth. I'm already under the gun to get it back together in time to race this weekend at the Mopar Nats. I don't want to get everything buttoned up and have to take it back apart again just to move the belt a tooth. Can anyone help and reassure me that I'm doing this correctly? Is this really that finicky or am I just paranoid?

I do have the factory timing belt tool and will be setting it to 95. Is there anything else I need to do preventitive maintenance wise to keep the belt and engine in fine working order? How about greasing the bearings of the idlers an tensioners for the timing and accessory belts? How is that done? There's nothing the FSM about it so I was curious as to how you guys were doing it.

I'm REALLY anxious to get it back running tomorrow evening and having it run quiet like it should have been all along under the hood. All help is appreciated!!! :thumb:

[fleckster]

A second question: Once I get the timing belt on and confirmed the proper tension, tighted back up the rocker shafts, and put the plugs back in, I should be able to try and start it without reinstalling everything just to check that it is correct, right? If it starts right up and idles fine, not having the serpentine belt and accessories on it shouldn't cause any issues if only for a minute. That way I will be able to confirm it is at least timed correct to start without having to disassemble it all if it is off a tooth. That's my thinking anyway. Anyone else do this?

[Pat]

I'm in the middle of installing my new Gates "Made In Italy" timing belt since the old one had 14 teeth ripped off of it and has always been noisy. I have the pins in to align the cams, the tension is off the rocker shafts, the #1 cylinder is up at TDC (the mark on the sprocket is also lined up with a mark on the cover to denote TDC...looks to have been done previously) and I'm slipping the belt into place.

I'm wondering, there is still a fair amount of play in the cams with the pins in and I'm pretty certain that the crank is set at TDC...how can I be 100% sure that I have the shafts and timing all set up exactly right? My biggest fear is that I get this all put back together and it won't start because I'm off just enough or my performance sucks because I'm off on one by a tooth. I'm already under the gun to get it back together in time to race this weekend at the Mopar Nats. I don't want to get everything buttoned up and have to take it back apart again just to move the belt a tooth. Can anyone help and reassure me that I'm doing this correctly? Is this really that finicky or am I just paranoid?

I do have the factory timing belt tool and will be setting it to 95. Is there anything else I need to do preventitive maintenance wise to keep the belt and engine in fine working order? How about greasing the bearings of the idlers an tensioners for the timing and accessory belts? How is that done? There's nothing the FSM about it so I was curious as to how you guys were doing it.

I'm REALLY anxious to get it back running tomorrow evening and having it run quiet like it should have been all along under the hood. All help is appreciated!!! :thumb:

John,

With the pins in, they should be sitting level when the cams are in the right place.

[Pat]

A second question: Once I get the timing belt on and confirmed the proper tension, tighted back up the rocker shafts, and put the plugs back in, I should be able to try and start it without reinstalling everything just to check that it is correct, right? If it starts right up and idles fine, not having the serpentine belt and accessories on it shouldn't cause any issues if only for a minute. That way I will be able to confirm it is at least timed correct to start without having to disassemble it all if it is off a tooth. That's my thinking anyway. Anyone else do this?

No problem, just don't run it long since you will not be circulating coolant.

[fleckster]

Thanks, Pat. The FSM says to use 3/32" pins (drill bits) but they seem way too small based on the size of the holes. I think I ended up using 7/32" bits as they were more snug but still a little sloppy. Usually when you pin something like that, it is a bit more stationary.

I woudn't run the engine more than a couple seconds that way. It just want to make sure it will start before I button the rest back up. I just can't afford to waste the time to tear it back apart if I'm going to have it ready to leave Friday for the Mopar Nats. (and I'm still going to work during the night)

[Pat]

Good luck at the Nats!

[Turbo3Iroc]

I have started the car up like that after doing a t-belt also. It will still run if any sprocket is off one tooth. So after you fire it over bring the crank back to TDC and look at the pin holes. You shouldn't have to put the pins back in, just seeing them point to each other is enough usually.

[Turbo3Iroc]

I thought the book said 3/16 drill bits?

[Blue Iroc R/T]

The FSM DOES say 3/32" - It's wrong; Should say 3/16" = .1875" A 7/32" (.21875) should be way to tight. I found that on mine, the best size was a #13 Drill Shank = .1850"
Jackson came up with a way to add grease to the tensioner and idler pulleys. See his thread with pics on how to do it here: http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f40/135336-new-life-old-timing-belt-pulleys.html

Good Luck at the Nat's John! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

You might have to leave one of the drill bits out to get the proper belt alignment when installing it due to machining tolerances but after its all tightened up, you should be able to put the drill bit back in or close to it. I would put the lower crank pulley on to stop the belt from walking off.

[fleckster]

Thanks for all the help guys! I finished the car this afternoon. It started on the first try! I did try it with all the accessories off and did install the crank pulley as Simon suggested. I rechecked the tension after a couple hand turns of the engine, again after the test fire without accessories, and again after all the accessories were back on just before I put the upper cover back on. The tension is set at 95lbs. Despite my best efforts, the engine is still noisy just like it was before. :-( I guess I just have a loud Turbo III. It runs fine and feels just like it did before the belt went bad so I'm sure it's not off a tooth. I still have the issue where the oil pressure gauge drops to zero intermittently. (I have confirmed before with a mechanical gauge and it really wasn't dropping.) If I have time tomorrow, I'm going to pull the connector off the sensor and check the pins in it. I have already replaced the sender and that had no effect. I'm hoping it is the same intermittent short/ground I was getting with the distance sensor which was traced to stretched pins not making a good and consistent connection. I also need to clean and reoil my K&N Filter as it is really dirty. A nice bath and a removal of the rubber on the doors and she should be ready to load on the trailer to the Nats. I did confirm that Reeves has the slicks from his mom's SRT-4 on the truck for me to borrow. :evil:

Also during the test drive this evening, I was pulling out of an addition across from a newer Mustang so I pulled out quickly and hammered it in 1st gear lighting the tires the whole way. When I looked up as I banged into 2nd gear, I passed a Grand National going the other way. I definitely got the driver's attention. The look on his face was great! Too bad I was going the other way!

[turbovanman²]

Hahhaaaa, wish I could have seen the GN owners face.

One day, you should invest in a set of adjustable sprockets, you won't believe how far they are out, :(

[Mario]

I still have the issue where the oil pressure gauge drops to zero intermittently. (I have confirmed before with a mechanical gauge and it really wasn't dropping.) If I have time tomorrow, I'm going to pull the connector off the sensor and check the pins in it. I have already replaced the sender and that had no effect. I'm hoping it is the same intermittent short/ground I was getting with the distance sensor which was traced to stretched pins not making a good and consistent connection.


Old, I know, but I have the same problem with both the oil sensor and the SDS. I have confirmed the same with my mechanical oil pressure gauge. Did it end up being a bad ground?

[fleckster]

Well the SDS ended up being that the terminal wires at the connector to the sensor in the harness had spread too wide and weren't making good consistant conection at the sensor. I have Warren Hall and another VERY friendly and helpful Turbo III owner (I'm so bad with names...I can picture his face but can't recall the name at the moment, Sorry!) from the Great Lakes Chapter diagnose, trouble-shoot and fix it for me. The speed is now rock solid.

It's funny you dug this thread back up, Mario, as I asked Warren to check the same thing on the oil pressure sensor yesterday at about the exact same time you typed this to see if that would fix the goofy oil pressure reads as well. They too were a little stretched out. We got my Spirit back together and running but really didn't get to check it out and see if the problem was gone. I left the car at Reeves' house to drive as I had to haul back my Neon I left down there on a previous visit (so I could drive back his turbo van for body work by Clay). Hopefully, he will drive it to work and around some and let me know if it took care if it too. You might want to check yours. It couldn't hurt! :thumb:

[Mario]

Definately going to. Funny we have / had the same problems.