TU Stainless Header warpage

[badandy]

Have you experienced this and how many times did you resurface it only to have it warp again before it finally relieved itself? :( I bought a pretty much brand new TU stainless header second hand from a good friend who MAYBE had 600 - 1,000 miles on the header. I had the thing checked to be sure it was flat and sure enough it was out some so it was decked flat. :thumb: I have driven the car maybe 2,000 miles and it's warped bigger than sh@t! :confused2: It's fun to drive through the projects and let off the gas...BANG! and everyone hits the dirt:D

How many head gaskets, exhaust/intake gaskets, head bolt sets will I have to go through before this header seasons and quits warping? By the time this is all said and done I will have paid $800.00 + to have a header on my car that won't blow out gaskets:confused:

[contraption22]

I've had mine for 3 years. No warpage. I purchased it used. No idea how many miles were on it, but I did check it for flatness before I installed it, and it was all good.

You didn't wrap it, did you?

[badandy]

I'm not trying to trash the product or TU before this goes somewhere I don't want it to go.

No wrap at all! It was a touch warped when I got it from Frank. It has become so bad my car sounds like it has no exhaust at all until it warms up a bit. I'm getting pulled over quite a bit too for the car being too loud.

I asked around quite a bit before I decided to buy this...checking to see if anyone had had problems with the TU piece like the the Alabama Man header and the others of the past. My gut told me to buy the cast piece due to this very reason...UGH!

Now my choices are to pull it back off and flatten it again, buy the cast version, or put a stock manifold back on it which will require me buying a new downpipe due to having to cut my downpipe for the relocated turbo palcement.

frustrating...and very bad timing with pending job move or loss of job.

[Chris W]

I am not sure when the header you purchased was manufctured but the earlier versions did not have flange cuts through the holes. Do you have a photo of your header that you can post?

Chris-TU

[Ondonti]

I see the new product on TU's site has cuts in the flange so that would be an EASY fix for you. Your machinist should have known to do that the first time.
I dont know how he would be able to suggest a better product if he cant figure that out.

You can have the same problem with a cast manifold. Its a very common problem in the auto world.

[8valves]

I had two different TU headers, one of which I think is on Mike Marra's car now. Never had a problem with either.

[johnl]

No warpage with mine, although not many miles on it. It does have the saw cuts that separate the ports from each other, in terms of heat stress/torque.

The weld Ls are welded to the flange first, then the saw cuts are made, then it is surfaced.

So, if yours does not have saw cuts, cut it first and then surface it.

[Frank]

I'm not trying to trash the product or TU before this goes somewhere I don't want it to go.

No wrap at all! It was a touch warped when I got it from Frank. It has become so bad my car sounds like it has no exhaust at all until it warms up a bit. I'm getting pulled over quite a bit too for the car being too loud.

I asked around quite a bit before I decided to buy this...checking to see if anyone had had problems with the TU piece like the the Alabama Man header and the others of the past. My gut told me to buy the cast piece due to this very reason...UGH!

Now my choices are to pull it back off and flatten it again, buy the cast version, or put a stock manifold back on it which will require me buying a new downpipe due to having to cut my downpipe for the relocated turbo palcement.

frustrating...and very bad timing with pending job move or loss of job.


I am not sure when the header you purchased was manufctured but the earlier versions did not have flange cuts through the holes. Do you have a photo of your header that you can post?

Chris-TU

When I bought the header, I had to have it milled .030". When I sold it with only 400 miles to Andy, I assumed it was straight. Obviously it wasnt as Andy had to have it milled.

It does not have the cut flanges, but I thought they might have been cut when Andy and Reeves worked on it.


Frank

[badandy]

When I bought the header, I had to have it milled .030". When I sold it with only 400 miles to Andy, I assumed it was straight. Obviously it wasnt as Andy had to have it milled.

It does not have the cut flanges, but I thought they might have been cut when Andy and Reeves worked on it.


Frank
Man do I ever wish we would have! I remember we talked about it...but when you get to drinking beers with Reeves well...you tend to forget...uhh, what was I talking about again?:D

I'm sure it will be fine this time around but dangit it's not a good time for this!

[zin]

Sounds like the permanent fix would be to cut the flange between ports, have it stress relieved, then mill it flat. That should address all the potential problems. Though it sounds like it may have been "naturally seasoned" and already has the ports separated, so the last thing would be to have it surfaced, IMHO.

Mike

[badandy]

Sounds like the permanent fix would be to cut the flange between ports, have it stress relieved, then mill it flat. That should address all the potential problems. Though it sounds like it may have been "naturally seasoned" and already has the ports separated, so the last thing would be to have it surfaced, IMHO.

Mike
Ports are not seperated yet and it appears that's the problem. I'm sure after that is done and the header is milled flat again all will be good.

[Reeves]

Bring it to the garage. We'll cut it and mill it. Mmm....beer.

[Juggy]

I have 2 headers here, one seems to be one of the 1st ones like yours, as the flanges isnt cut....when I went to bolt it on I had a HUGE gap still on #1, so I had to get mine machined as well

I didnt seperate the ports yet, but it should still be flat (I hope) i dont think i put more than 10 miles on it after the milling.

even the coated one im running now seemed to have a little warpage, but it was precut between the ports and was able to seal still

[badandy]

Bring it to the garage. We'll cut it and mill it. Mmm....beer.
I'm just waiting for you to have time my friend:)

[Reeves]

I'm just waiting for you to have time my friend:)

Yeah, I've been busy.
Thursday was THIRSTY THURSDAY at Florence Freedom ball park. Watched a minor league game and drank $2 24oz'ers.....a lot of them.
Friday was Linkin Park Projekt Revolution Tour with Chris Cornell and the Bravery. Drank a lot of $1 longnecks before the show, and then $6.50 20 oz'ers at the show.
Tonight is Poison with Dokken and Sebastian Bach concert. Getting ready to open my first beer now!

:p:thumb:

[badandy]

Well we finally were able to pull it down to check it out and it wasn't the flange at all. The header actually cracked in two places:( Cylinders 1&2 were completely seperated from one another at the weld...you could litterally see through the crack!...it had to be at least 1/8 of an inch! Cylinders 2&3 were 90% seperated from one another with the same amount of gap:confused2:

Swapped out to the cast header and getting the stainless one welded up properly and selling it. What a headache:confused:

[Chris W]

Well we finally were able to pull it down to check it out and it wasn't the flange at all. The header actually cracked in two places:( Cylinders 1&2 were completely seperated from one another at the weld...you could litterally see through the crack!...it had to be at least 1/8 of an inch! Cylinders 2&3 were 90% seperated from one another with the same amount of gap:confused2:

Swapped out to the cast header and getting the stainless one welded up properly and selling it. What a headache:confused:

This was definitely one of the first headers to be produced. We had a questionable welder at first and switched to a more reliable vendor soon after. Fortunately there were only a few people who had this issue. Andy, I know you bought it second hand but my offer still stands to have our new welder fix it for you.

Let me know,

Chris-TU

[omni_840]

Man that sucks! I'm sorry to hear that. BTW I noticed your location is in Salem, I work in Giles County. Maybe we can meet up sometime

[Reeves]

Well we finally were able to pull it down to check it out and it wasn't the flange at all. The header actually cracked in two places:( Cylinders 1&2 were completely seperated from one another at the weld...you could litterally see through the crack!...it had to be at least 1/8 of an inch! Cylinders 2&3 were 90% seperated from one another with the same amount of gap:confused2:

Swapped out to the cast header and getting the stainless one welded up properly and selling it. What a headache:confused:

The welds were VERY dissappointing. From the outside when we first installed it, the welds were very pretty, clean welds, and they were really narrow. I would have assumed that most of the weld was penetration and it didn't need much on the outside to hold it together. After it cracked, you could see that there was zero penetration and the weld el's were butted together with no penetration groove.

The flange is also warped, but I haven't measured how much yet.

It will soon have penetration grooves ground into it, filled with weld, runners cut free, then milled flat, and barnished (cleaned and some stress relief).

[zin]

Andy, I know you bought it second hand but my offer still stands to have our new welder fix it for you.

Let me know,

Chris-TU

Hell of a nice offer, kudos Chris! Not many vendors anywhere in the auto aftermarket would offer to do something like this on a second hand piece!

Mike

[badandy]

This was definitely one of the first headers to be produced. We had a questionable welder at first and switched to a more reliable vendor soon after. Fortunately there were only a few people who had this issue. Andy, I know you bought it second hand but my offer still stands to have our new welder fix it for you.

Let me know,

Chris-TU
I know it's hard to offer things for our cars and I'm appreciative that someone tries to be innovative. I also appreciate the fact that you have offered to fix it. I hate that these "questionable" people keep half azz'n things that you are trying to offer. They must believe in expensive paperweights.

At this point it makes sense to me to let James keep it with him and fix it right, besides, he already has it so no sense wasting even more money on shipping. No offense meant to your business or your products but I know if it is fixed by him I can be confident it will be done right...and I can feel confident that if I sell it than this won't happen to anyone else and your business and my name will not be comprimised...as I will be selling it as a TU header.

On a different note the cast header is a very nice piece and although the turbo and the header both need a little messaging prior to installation...it gave me a strong feeling of confidence in your products. I wish I would have just got the cast header to start with.

[badandy]

Eh, sometimes it happens. We can meet up whenever you have the time:clap: I'm all about having some TD/SD buddies to hang out with and wrench:thumb:


Man that sucks! I'm sorry to hear that. BTW I noticed your location is in Salem, I work in Giles County. Maybe we can meet up sometime

[Ondonti]

So you havent posted about the flange yet.

Not being cut is what causes the manifold to break itself like that regardless of how weak it is from bad welding.

Cut the damn flange.

It probably would not have failed if it had been cut.

[Juggy]

as mentioned earlier, I have one of, what appears to be one of the 1st TU SS headers as well. it was never cut between the ports, and when I had recieved it (used) the flange was also warped

had to machine .080"-.090" to get it flat again!! def goin to seperate the ports on the flange if I ever use that thing again

[badandy]

So you havent posted about the flange yet.

Not being cut is what causes the manifold to break itself like that regardless of how weak it is from bad welding.

Cut the damn flange.

It probably would not have failed if it had been cut.
What do you mean I have not posted about the flange? We already covered that:confused2:

The flange is going to be cut now that it is off the car but it wasn't cut before installation obvioulsy...which was how it was sold. Previously you mentioned that...

"Your machinist should have known to do that the first time. I dont know how he would be able to suggest a better product if he cant figure that out"

Now I'm not trying to start trouble but you really should bite your tongue...not only do you not know who "my machinist" is but the company that produced the header obviously couldn't figure it out either:o

If it was neccessary to cut the flange than (I feel) all headers that were sold should have been recalled or given a credit to have the flanges seperated. It was a known problem prior to my installing the header...well, known by everyone but me I suppose. I have faith in TU's products or else I would not have bought a TU header nor would have I replaced it with another TU product.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...I'm just glad it's fixed.

I completely agree that was the cause of failure...but with how much those things cost that should have been ironed out before they were sold to the public. I should have bought it and bolted it up. I even talked to Chris before I installed it originally...told him who I got it from and everything...not once was it mentioned that I needed to seperate the runners. Now, I'm not blaming Chris...I'm just saying that I was never made aware that there would be any issue until after I experienced problems. Had Chris, myself, or James known this was a problem with TU headers it would have been solved prior to installation.

Cut the damn flange huh?...I'll get right on that:thumb:

[Reeves]

+1
A+

[Chris W]

I even talked to Chris before I installed it originally...told him who I got it from and everything...not once was it mentioned that I needed to seperate the runners.

As mentioned earlier, only a hand full of these headers with uncut flanges went out. Frank ordered his over 3 1/2 years ago. I only spoke with Andy recently so I didn't mention the flange issue because I believed they had all been addressed. It was still my oversight :o which is why I asked him to send it in and we would take care of it. :thumb:

Chris-TU

[Ondonti]

What do you mean I have not posted about the flange? We already covered that:confused2:

The flange is going to be cut now that it is off the car but it wasn't cut before installation obvioulsy...which was how it was sold. Previously you mentioned that...

"Your machinist should have known to do that the first time. I dont know how he would be able to suggest a better product if he cant figure that out"

Now I'm not trying to start trouble but you really should bite your tongue...not only do you not know who "my machinist" is but the company that produced the header obviously couldn't figure it out either:o

If it was neccessary to cut the flange than (I feel) all headers that were sold should have been recalled or given a credit to have the flanges seperated. It was a known problem prior to my installing the header...well, known by everyone but me I suppose. I have faith in TU's products or else I would not have bought a TU header nor would have I replaced it with another TU product.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...I'm just glad it's fixed.

I completely agree that was the cause of failure...but with how much those things cost that should have been ironed out before they were sold to the public. I should have bought it and bolted it up. I even talked to Chris before I installed it originally...told him who I got it from and everything...not once was it mentioned that I needed to seperate the runners. Now, I'm not blaming Chris...I'm just saying that I was never made aware that there would be any issue until after I experienced problems. Had Chris, myself, or James known this was a problem with TU headers it would have been solved prior to installation.

Cut the damn flange huh?...I'll get right on that:thumb:

I don't need to hold my tongue on the obvious.

When a machinist misdiagnoses something, they have to live with it.

I tell anyone I ever see with flanges like that to cut them to avoid hassles in the future. Especially on turbo cars.

Cutting the flange is so easy, its cheaper then packaging or shipping, or milling the flange constantly. Considering that you fixed it multiple times (improperly), something besides warpage was bound to happen. I am sure if you called TU on the original problem and explained what happened, you would only have had to fix it once (and maybe not pay for the fix). I have never heard complaints before, likely because you are the only one who left their flange uncut or who never called TU for help.

[Clay]

Ondonti - your point has been made. Move along please.

[Reeves]

Ondonti - your point has been made. Move along please.

+1 :yuck: