Nitrous dyno

[shadow88]

Last Thursday, I drove the shadow over to my favourite mustang specialty shop for some dyno testing. The first run was set at 30 psi boost and a 70hp jet of nitrous. The clutch slipped like crazy, no impressive numbers.The second run was made with boost alone. 298whp with 344wtq with 25 psi boost 8 degrees timing and the stock 2 bar cal.;). We gave it some cool down time for the clutches' sake and tried the last pull with the 50hp jet to try to give the clutch a chance to grip.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/shelby/nitrousdyno.jpg

Boost went to 28 psi and the run was cut short due to the slipping clutch. This nitrous stuff is great fun and hazzardous to my clutch and front tires.

[cordes]

Have you put a new clutch in the car since I read about it slipping last? I am assuming you haven't otherwise I would imagine that there would be swearing involved.

Nice numbers for that boost level with your setup for sure. You are running a TBI header correct? Were these runs with race gas?

[shadow88]

Same rev-lok clutch. I should have a new one ordered by the end of today. I wanted to have an idea of the torque the engine made so a better clutch selection could be made this time.

TBI header and pump 94. I was thrilled to see over 400 wtq. I bet there's 400 whp in it with a proper clutch.

[cordes]

Same rev-lok clutch. I should have a new one ordered by the end of today. I wanted to have an idea of the torque the engine made so a better clutch selection could be made this time.

TBI header and pump 94. I was thrilled to see over 400 wtq. I bet there's 400 whp in it with a proper clutch.

I bet you're right. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see some new times with the new clutch. What did you decide on by the way?

[shadow88]

I'm honestly waiting for Chris to add them to his website so I can order them.

The place near me was less than helpful with clutch selection.

[cordes]

I'm honestly waiting for Chris to add them to his website so I can order them.

The place near me was less than helpful with clutch selection.

Interesting. It is the worst when local guys won't help you out. It was the best when I worked a couple blocks away from a hydraulic supply place. I got all my lines and fittings for next to nothing, and no shipping to boot. Those were the days.

[zin]

Looks like the engine likes the nitrous alot more than the clutch does!!

Mike

[Ondonti]

Hopefully you dont use the stock plate that comes with the revlok when you get your new clutch.

[turbovanman²]

Those are some damn good numbers, :nod:

[Captain Chaos]

It is the worst when local guys won't help you out.

Thats the worst, because honestly 9 times out of 10 you can buy stuff online cheaper but have to wait. Seems they'd bend over backwards to earn your business.

Nice numbers on the car. Shadow 88.

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice pulls! Now get a fricken clutch! ;)

[shadow88]

Thank you, thank you. According to Chris @TU the clutch should be here any moment. He said he'll e-mail shipping and tracking info this evening.

I'm buying and testing (lab rat style) TU's new purple pressure plate and 4 puck ceramic disc. Chris tells me I should be the first to have one installed, and I will, as soon as it gets here. I already have a freshly machined flywheel waiting at work and a hybrid 520/555 transmission built by Dave Rose waiting and ready to go.

Mike, the engine and I both are HUGE fans of the nitrous. Driveline failures be damned, this stuff's a hoot.

[turzbo]

awsome numbers:clap:

[zin]

Mike, the engine and I both are HUGE fans of the
nitrous. Driveline failures be damned, this stuff's a hoot.

That's great! The challenge will be to keep it to a HP level that the parts can handle, seems like we find ourselves wanting to put "the big jets" in "just once to try and touch a ___sec time", DON'T DO IT! Too much is too much no matter if it's only one time (and it wouldn't be! :D). I say this more as a warning to others, I know you're pretty conservative with the nitrous.

Mike

[jckrieger]

Have you received the purple plate yet? If so, what do you think of it? I have one on order with a 6 puck ceramic disc and am hoping it will handle at least 450lb-ft of torque. If your new clutch doesn't hold for you, I'll have to think of something else to use!

[shadow88]

Clutch arrived last week while I was on holidays. I'll be installing it this weekend. Once it's broken in, you'll all know about it. I'll keep you all and Chris in touch, I'll just keep this thread going rather than starting a new one.

[jckrieger]

My clutch is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, so it looks like we'll both have the purple plate in testing around the same time. I'm curious to see how our opinions differ.

[1BADVAN]

what you meant by timing was 8 degrees TDC right what fuel are you running with that boost and what other mods do you have

HOW do you keep your EGTS down with a stock computer?

[shadow88]

what you meant by timing was 8 degrees TDC right what fuel are you running with that boost and what other mods do you have

HOW do you keep your EGTS down with a stock computer?

Yes 8* BTDC base timing. Running pump 94. Lots of other mods, DIY manifolds, hybrid turbo, super 60 cam, fmic, really, lots.

And now onto the good news......

Dynoed last night at 30 psi, 70 shot, and NO CLUTCH SLIP!!! Max 376whp and 447wtq:cheer2:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/shelby/dynosept10-08.jpg

This purple plate and 4 puck ceramic from TU really did the trick! Thanks Chris!

[cordes]

That is some serious action. Congratulations. :thumb:

[1BADVAN]

do you have a alky kit? can you post pics of your engine? That is sweet on a stock cal!!!

[1966 dart wagon]

what size turbo are you running, what is the specs on the engine? nice run :D

[moparzrule]

The torque went up a ton, but the HP was the same as your previous dyno....376 WHP you had on 28 PSI and a 50 shot. Now 30 PSI and 70 shot, 376 WHP :confused: Was it a hotter day out or something?
I'm sure you got a lot of timing pulled to do that all on pump 94. Very impressive though, I bet EGT's are 1700+ on that no nitrous run you had. Atleast the N20 should keep things cooled down for you.
Edit- I would also like to know your complete setup!

[shadow88]

Weird thing about this trip to the dyno....None of us did what we were expecting.

For example 5.0L 1992 mustang with mild mods did 245 whp last time, added a 6 psi supercharger and went up to only 302 whp
"project turbo neon" went from 218whp at 13 psi to 198whp with 18 psi. I KNOW and GUARANTEE the car is faster now.
My shadow, I figured 400 whp was in the bag, but it sure didn't happen.

Either way, the numbers are what they are.

This time around, the shadow was ALOT richer (46psi fuel from 41 psi fuel and a larger fuel jet) and had 1 degree less base ignition timing (7 degrees) but the dyno wideband read similar a/f ratios. :confused: I can't explain why, but that's how it goes.

Huge air filter, small 50 trim hybrid turbo with .63a/r and a stage 2 wheel, huge fmic, diy manifolds, ported stock sized valve head, 2.5" ehxaust with cut-out, nothing really special. Lots of little things, I guess.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/exhaust%20manifold/assembledhead3.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/exhaust%20manifold/assembledhead2.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/exhaust%20manifold/assembledhead.jpg

And one on the car.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/IMG_2021.jpg

No alky injection, just 2 cold starts and the nitrous. I do not have an EGT, I tune with wideband and knock sensor output.

[cordes]

Is that a standard cover machined for the T4 wheel?

[1BADVAN]

is that a tbi header? What is that elbow you used on the swingvalve from? That is way cool!!

[moparzrule]

Is that a standard cover machined for the T4 wheel?

Looks to me like a super 60 cover, machined for the T4 wheel. S60 is just a ported stock .42 housing basically.
But I see an angled outlet plus the stock T2 large can mount.

TBI header, the swingvalve look like any stock swingvalve chopped off and welded onto.
The intake looks like it has runners from the 1 piece, though shortened.

I'm very surprised it has so much torque, mostly cuz of the nitrous I guess. I'm guessing it's a 2.2L based on that you have the square tooth pulley yet?

One other thing, are you still using the stock T1 block? If you had a common block I would think you would have a round tooth pulley.
Whats your short block setup?

[Ondonti]

Looks like its time to step to a stage 3 wheel and ditch that stock type cover :P

You obviously have a nasty bottleneck in the system.
You are running a TBI header so you dont have an excuse not to use a better cover :D

Of course there could be a lot of other things holding you back. Weird dyno results also suck cause you dont know where you were or where you are at right now in comparison.

[moparzrule]

2.5'' exhaust has got to be a cork at 376 WHP

[shadow88]

This is the same turbo sold through FWDP as the small housing 50 trim hybrid.

Yes, the swingvalve is a modded stock one with a 90degree cast iron elbow welded to it, then a donut flange opened up and welded to it.

The intake started life as a 1 piece seen here - http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3234 Wow, I've had that for over 2 years! lol

It's a 2.2l t2 block from an 88 shelby z rebuild 7 years ago or so with hyperpathetic pistons too. It is a non-common block.

Different compressor housings get on the way of the firewall, and it's already been hammered back quite a bit.

The 2.5" exhaust has a cut-out about 2 feet back, it can't be *that* restricive.;)

[1BADVAN]

Looks like you go to the dyno alot what would you say have been the best
(most power gained) modifications on your car?
What are you using to bypass the MAP cutout?

[shadow88]

Looks like you go to the dyno alot what would you say have been the best
(most power gained) modifications on your car?
What are you using to bypass the MAP cutout?

Good question. I gained about 60whp with the manifolds and another 70+whp with the nitrous. I'd have to say nitrous because anyone who has built up an engine will tell you it's harder to get the last 50 horse power than the first 50 horse power.

But the manifolds don't run empty and are always ready without a fill-up. Tough call.

Map sensor is defeated with an adjustable zener diode bought through a guy on neons.org as a "map clamp"

[contraption22]

Could you post some pics up of your nitrous installation?

Thanks!

[8valves]

Amazing you've gotten away with that much boost and spray on hypereutectics. Good for you.

I agree with Ondonti, you've got holdup somewhere. You make peak power around 4200 and it immediately dives off to a loss of around 100 WHP by 6K.

Then again, if you're happy with it fantastic! If you're wondering about it, then I'd say you've found a cork somewhere and it needs rectifying.

By the outward appearance of your manifold selection, depending on cam and how good the head is, your peak HP should be at least 1K rpms higher.

EDIT* What valve springs are you on?

[shadow88]

Could you post some pics up of your nitrous installation?

Thanks!

I'm guessing you want more than just a picture of a nozzle in the intercooler tubing. I'll try for some through the week.

8valves- it all caught up to me last week. I didn't adjust fuel pressure for the cooler air that night and more imprtantly, didn't watch my gauges. Engine is torched.:(

The head is probably the cork in my case, it's just a clean-up port job and a set of back-cut valves. Maybe the intercooler piping isn't helping either. Some of it is 2 1/4" and there are some really nasty tight bends.

I run a super 60 cam and the matching valve springs. But I'm happy with it. I love big torque.

[8valves]

I run a super 60 cam and the matching valve springs. But I'm happy with it. I love big torque.

When the car is apart have the spring pressures checked. My old 061 Mopar springs were down to 60 seat and 81 lbs open pressure after I took the car apart. I wish I would've known that before.

[cordes]

I'm guessing you want more than just a picture of a nozzle in the intercooler tubing. I'll try for some through the week.

8valves- it all caught up to me last week. I didn't adjust fuel pressure for the cooler air that night and more imprtantly, didn't watch my gauges. Engine is torched.:(

The head is probably the cork in my case, it's just a clean-up port job and a set of back-cut valves. Maybe the intercooler piping isn't helping either. Some of it is 2 1/4" and there are some really nasty tight bends.

I run a super 60 cam and the matching valve springs. But I'm happy with it. I love big torque.

Bummer about the engine. Is this what precipitated the hybrid motor thread I saw yesterday?

[1966 dart wagon]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/IMG_2021.jpg
.

awh I WANT THAT STICKER :thumb::D

[shadow88]

Bummer about the engine. Is this what precipitated the hybrid motor thread I saw yesterday?


Exactly :thumb: I'll probably end up with another 8 valve, but this time with forged pistons and probably methanol injection. I'm thinking methanol alone *might* have saved me from this failure. But more power is.....well......MORE.:D

8valves - those valve springs are very fresh, maybe 3 months old, but they will be checked before the next head is assembled.

1966 dart wagon - To get a sticker like that, you only needed to attend sdac-18. It was in the goody bag. I've thought for a long time where to place that sticker. I like my choice.

[shadow88]

Well, almost 2 months too late, sorry about that.

Bottle mount, and yes. I keep spare pistons. lol
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2183.jpg
Activation button Ghetto taped to the shifter
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2182.jpg
Arming switch.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2181.jpg
Wot switch
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2180.jpg
The solenoids never were attached to anything.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2179.jpg
Mess of wiring. Power was taken from the A/C relay, My car never had A/C, but the wiring is still there. Always on, not ignition fed.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2178.jpg
Sleepy, eh?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/shadowt2/nitrous/IMG_2177.jpg

There's a video too!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNN83NurmfA

[turzbo]

nice pull man

[WOP'R]

so how's the clutch holding up?? any drivability issues?

you drive the shadow as a DD?

[shadow88]

I wouldn't call my shadow a DD only because of last few years gas prices. But I have driven it to work, cottages, rain, track days, sdac-18 without issues.

The clutch was holding up fine when I last drove it. No issues at all with the clutch (the engine torched a piston pretty hardcore). I plan to throw more power into it next year with a new +1mm head and methanol and a touch more timing. I'm aiming for 400 whp and I have no doubt this clutch can hold it.

[WOP'R]

did u by chance get my PM? just wanted to know if u torn down the engine and took a look at the thrust bearing surface

[black86glhs]

Watch the video and check out the blue silicone hose on the intercooler on the pass side!!!!!! It looks like a balloon!!:hail:

[shadow88]

WOP'R, I responded to your PM.

My friend had to video the silicone coupler just to prove to me that it's ballooning like that. I was surprised to say the least. I have since purchased some 4 ply silicone couplers, just haven't put them on yet.

[SUPER60omni]

Gotta love N20.....You know I do :thumb:

[monkeyhead]

I like that merkur in the background of the vid.