Another three core DSM custom IC

[2.216VTurbo]

Last weekend during the Team Shelby SoCal GTG I had a sort-of race with a 725 HP GT 500 Super Snake, I made up 2+ car lenghts on him but he stilll was ahead when road conditions dictated that we shut em down:(. So while he was feeling smug about the win (not realizing with another 300' I'd have owned him:eyebrows:) I was frustrated that the GLHS wasn't pulling a bit harder. It was a 85+ degree day so I figured it was time to dump the 10 year old state-of-the-art-back-then PowerStroke unit.

So after about 9 hours of fabrication and welding, here is the new FMIC. It's three Eclipse/Talon/Laser cores welded together (just like I did for the TC Masi and that car LOVES the new set up) and the BOV has been relocated from the IC endtank to the charge piping. As a nice bonus, about 50% of the Radiator shows now, last weekends rally thru the twisties saw 3/4 temp gauge even with the manual fan switch on.

So buttoned it up tonight about 9:30 and took it for a little test drive after taking 1.5 turns out of the wastegate just to be safe on the A/F settings. OMG! It makes more power at 17PSI than it did at 22 before!:wow1: Boost comes up waaaay faster and throttle response is better somehow too:confused: In the 20 years I have owned and modded this car, it has NEVER run this strong before. Which is exactly why I was going to wait until the K1 rods were in the motor before upgrading the the Powerstroke IC. If I don't poke a rod thru the block, this is going to be way more fun to drive this beast now:eyebrows:

I need to thank my Bud FastFiat Pat for letting me do the fab at his place, and for him fixing some of my porous welds(and not teasing me about them too much;))

[supercrackerbox]

That looks like a killer setup!

[cordes]

That looks really nice Alan. You 2 door L-body guys have all the room up front. :(

[moparzrule]

I think the DSM ic's don't have the inner fins right? Great for flow, but not so good for cooling....but since it's 3 cores it's probably still OK. I could be wrong about the inner fins, I'm not 100% positive.

Powerstroke IC's are poop, bad design. New one looks a lot better. What BOV is that?

[t3rse]

pretty damn sexy

[mcsvt]

Nice fab for Alan :thumb:

[2.216VTurbo]

I think the DSM ic's don't have the inner fins right? Great for flow, but not so good for cooling....but since it's 3 cores it's probably still OK. I could be wrong about the inner fins, I'm not 100% positive.

Powerstroke IC's are poop, bad design. New one looks a lot better. What BOV is that?


Oh SHITE! You mean I've invested dozens of hours fabbing intercoolers for two different project cars that don't cool well. THANKS so much for telling me Mike before I made the mistake again:rolleyes: Maybe I shoulda tested the first one by taking inlet and outlet temps and posting them here. Oh wait, I did that:p

I think it's pretty easy to read the name on the BOV right?

[omni_840]

Nice looking fab work!

[8valves]

Nice stuff Alan! DSM cores work pretty darn well I think.

[t3rse]

Oh SHITE! You mean I've invested dozens of hours fabbing intercoolers for two different project cars that don't cool well. THANKS so much for telling me Mike before I made the mistake again:rolleyes: Maybe I shoulda tested the first one by taking inlet and outlet temps and posting them here. Oh wait, I did that:p

I think it's pretty easy to read the name on the BOV right?

his name is Matt...:lol:

[2.216VTurbo]

his name is Matt...:lol:

I pretty much try to ignore the blowhard know-it-alls, I think it must be working:lol: Matt/Mike/Mark whatever:D...

[John B]

It's a beauty!! Man I wish I had had the inlets and outlets on opposite ends like that for more even flow through the core. I used Saab 900 cores for my 3core cooler and have inlet and outlet on the same end. It flows well and cools great, but it would have been better if I had done it like you did. Gus did a flow test on one of the cores and was really surprised at how well it flowed. He never got a chance to post the results to his cooler test page though.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Nice job Alan, looks like it came out very well.

How thick are the cores? They look to be atleast 3.5" maybe 4"

[supercrackerbox]

I seem to remember the DSM cores being about 4" or so. They're pretty thick.

[2.216VTurbo]

It's a beauty!! Man I wish I had had the inlets and outlets on opposite ends like that for more even flow through the core. I used Saab 900 cores for my 3core cooler and have inlet and outlet on the same end. It flows well and cools great, but it would have been better if I had done it like you did. Gus did a flow test on one of the cores and was really surprised at how well it flowed. He never got a chance to post the results to his cooler test page though.

Honestly, I don't think the air cares which way the outlets face, the air is just gonna move from an area of higher pressure to an area of lower pressure. Sideways, backways, same sides, opposite sides-I don't think the charge air knows the diffference, just high side and low side.

The end tanks on these DSM coolers are 4" Aluminum tube (pipe) cut in half then 'pinched' together just a bit so it fits the width of the DSM cores. I showed a step by step construction when I made the first one last year, search "upgrading the TC intercooler" and it will show up.

Thanks for the props guys:thumb: Real test will be in the next dyno day, Power Stroke cooler got this set up to 384WHP at 17-18 PSI, it didn't really want to go any higher but my AF's were kinda whacked that day. Turned out the FPR diaphragm wasn't accounting for vac/boost and just regulating one constant pressure:( Mallory FTL...

[iTurbo]

Nice, looks great to me! I have a TIII mock-up in my Omni at the moment and will probably be replacing the big Isuzu NPR intercooler setup (no room!). I like the end tanks; I bet the air flows through the core pretty efficiently that way. I need to find somebody who will make a custom intake manifold like that. With the TB on the passenger side I think it would be easier to do what I want. Heck that alone would probably allow me to recycle the NPR intercooler setup.

[moparzrule]

Oh SHITE! You mean I've invested dozens of hours fabbing intercoolers for two different project cars that don't cool well. THANKS so much for telling me Mike before I made the mistake again:rolleyes: Maybe I shoulda tested the first one by taking inlet and outlet temps and posting them here. Oh wait, I did that:p

I think it's pretty easy to read the name on the BOV right?

Holy crap dude take a chill pill! I was more asking a question than anything, do they have internal fins or NOT? And it's a well known fact that IC's without internal fins don't cool as well, but I also stated since you have 3 core's it's gonna be fine anyway.

How exactly was I sounding like a know it all here? I said I wasn't positive, usually a know it all won't say ''I'm not sure''.

I didn't enlarge the 2nd pic on the BOV, but whatever. I was just making friendly chit chat but perhaps you were having a real bad day or something :confused2:

[dodgeshadowchik]

hmmm..... i have 2 dsm cores right now..... >:)

ok, well one is on the car still. haha!

Nice work there, tho!! :)

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice work there Alan :thumb:

...now go play mongoose and catch that snake :D

EDIT: I just happen to have a box of 3 DSM IC's setting right here ;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

Looks awesome Alan. I see something that maybe will help with the cooling of the car in the pics for those runs through the canyons. I'd get some sheet metal (T304SS works well hehe) and get the large gaps on the sides of the radiator blocked off. I'd also run a plate from the bottom of the upper slots in the nose over the top of the i/c to the radiator. That way the upper slots feed the rad and the lower slots feed the i/c then the lower part of the rad. From the pics I see the air entering the upper slots then just building high pressure behidn the i/c then going around the sides of the rad into the engine compartment. Look at some rally cars from say the mid 90's up. They have carbon fiber duct work to force and extract the air through the radiators which usually sit horizontally in front of the car. Also I don't see any lower valance on the radiator support. I know an S10 airdam works well on my GLH and looks great on my ShelbyZ just like the 84-86 TZ's, I bet it'd work well on a 2 door Lbody as well. It works much like a Corvette's and will help extract air through the rad (once it's all boxed in on the sides) and pull it out the bottom of the car. It'll also push air out and around the bottom of the car to help with d'force which I'm sure you want :)

Anyway, great work. Just some food for thought above.

[Aries_Turbo]

that intercooler looks like a gazer made it! :)

actually it looks pretty good. make me one. :)

Brian

[Mopar318]

Nice Nice Nice!

I thought about welding some cores together...but for the price you can get cores for now its cheaper to buy them...But if you have stuff laying around thats the way to go!

I bet you had fun cleaning up those old cores so you could tig them. I hate welding old aluminum. I hate polished too, Kids always bring these ebay piping kits for me to weld up and they are the lowest quality ---- I have seen.

How did you do the end tanks? Just aluminum pipe cut in half?

[Turbulence]

The two I had welded together had fins. If I recall the first tube on the top and bottom were empty.

Martin


Holy crap dude take a chill pill! I was more asking a question than anything, do they have internal fins or NOT? And it's a well known fact that IC's without internal fins don't cool as well, but I also stated since you have 3 core's it's gonna be fine anyway.

How exactly was I sounding like a know it all here? I said I wasn't positive, usually a know it all won't say ''I'm not sure''.

I didn't enlarge the 2nd pic on the BOV, but whatever. I was just making friendly chit chat but perhaps you were having a real bad day or something :confused2:

[Turbo3Iroc]

Honestly, I don't think the air cares which way the outlets face, the air is just gonna move from an area of higher pressure to an area of lower pressure. Sideways, backways, same sides, opposite sides-I don't think the charge air knows the diffference, just high side and low side.


On a same side outlet cooler it is my belief that the far end of the tank does not get used, lessening the cooling efficiency. I think your style with opposing outlets is the prime setup since it forces both ends of the cooling area to be used. I understand the air is going to use the path of least resistance but that is not always the best way if it does not use the whole area.

[2.216VTurbo]

Holy crap dude take a chill pill! I was more asking a question than anything, do they have internal fins or NOT? And it's a well known fact that IC's without internal fins don't cool as well, but I also stated since you have 3 core's it's gonna be fine anyway.

How exactly was I sounding like a know it all here? I said I wasn't positive, usually a know it all won't say ''I'm not sure''.

I didn't enlarge the 2nd pic on the BOV, but whatever. I was just making friendly chit chat but perhaps you were having a real bad day or something :confused2:

Um, so the old Powerstroke that was assembled with custom end tanks and outlets was poo, and the new IC despite my careful and extensive fab doesn't cool well.:confused: Old one took me to 384, I'm expecting this new one will take me to another 100+ WHP. So yeah, lets hang out sometime, be friends and chit-chat:lol: BTW, I had a great day, a nice commission, anticipating a good weekend... Maybe I just felt like laying into all the replies that were negative in nature. Since that was only you, you get the bonus;)

[2.216VTurbo]

Looks awesome Alan. I see something that maybe will help with the cooling of the car in the pics for those runs through the canyons. I'd get some sheet metal (T304SS works well hehe) and get the large gaps on the sides of the radiator blocked off. I'd also run a plate from the bottom of the upper slots in the nose over the top of the i/c to the radiator. That way the upper slots feed the rad and the lower slots feed the i/c then the lower part of the rad. From the pics I see the air entering the upper slots then just building high pressure behidn the i/c then going around the sides of the rad into the engine compartment. Look at some rally cars from say the mid 90's up. They have carbon fiber duct work to force and extract the air through the radiators which usually sit horizontally in front of the car. Also I don't see any lower valance on the radiator support. I know an S10 airdam works well on my GLH and looks great on my ShelbyZ just like the 84-86 TZ's, I bet it'd work well on a 2 door Lbody as well. It works much like a Corvette's and will help extract air through the rad (once it's all boxed in on the sides) and pull it out the bottom of the car. It'll also push air out and around the bottom of the car to help with d'force which I'm sure you want :)

Anyway, great work. Just some food for thought above. I'm definatly looking at doing some shrouding here, I'd like to try some flexible plastics bfore I go bending any more Aluminum or other metal.

Downforce? Just how fast you think I'm gonna drive this thing Jay? It's only a four cylinder car:lol:

Anyway, thanks for the props and constructive ideas folks, I'm going to Cars and Coffee in the morning to look for some heavyweight challengers:eyebrows: There are always a few Lambo's there and I haven't run one of those yet...

[TurboJerry]

I suggest an oil cooler if you don't already have one. Myself and a few good friends noticed 240 to 250 deg F oil temps while cruising at normal highway speeds. I wouldn't want to observe what the oil temps are under boost! Yikes!

[Austrian Dodge]

very nice setup! placing in and outlet on the opposite site of each other is the way to go! makes cooling way more efficient.

somehow 9 hours is THE intercooler fabing time :) took me the same time to finish my setup (and a sunburn while beeing in a garage LOL)

[Ondonti]

Well you arent the first person to find out the powerstroke robs tons of power from a decent setup. I remember years ago Dempsey was complaining about his and trying to get a 3 core made. While he thought the powerstroke was cool when he installed it, he realized later it wasnt much of an upgrade.

And I want your new intercooler, thanks.

[johnl]

Dang. Good job. Mo Pow @ less PSI! That's what we like.

[moparzrule]

Um, so the old Powerstroke that was assembled with custom end tanks and outlets was poo


Well you arent the first person to find out the powerstroke robs tons of power from a decent setup. I remember years ago Dempsey was complaining about his and trying to get a 3 core made. While he thought the powerstroke was cool when he installed it, he realized later it wasnt much of an upgrade.



There you go Alan, now I'm not the only one telling you your powerstroke IC was ''poo''.

I'd say you have quite a huge pride issue, because the first person that didn't :hail: your efforts you flipped out on them. Everything was all hunky doory as long as you were getting praise and worship for your fabbing skills. Whatever.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm definatly looking at doing some shrouding here, I'd like to try some flexible plastics bfore I go bending any more Aluminum or other metal.

Downforce? Just how fast you think I'm gonna drive this thing Jay? It's only a four cylinder car:lol:

Uhh I hear lots of references to tire spin in 4th gear. Sounds pretty damn fast to be spinning the tires. :)

I also notice you're missing the rubber piece that goes between the upper nose and the upper rad support? Or did you just take that off for fab and pics? I've got all the little rubber pieces out of an SC in the nose if you're missing any just let me know. There's also the plastic splash shields and rubber shields in the fender wells that help too.

[8valves]

I'm definatly looking at doing some shrouding here, I'd like to try some flexible plastics bfore I go bending any more Aluminum or other metal.

Downforce? Just how fast you think I'm gonna drive this thing Jay? It's only a four cylinder car:lol:

Anyway, thanks for the props and constructive ideas folks, I'm going to Cars and Coffee in the morning to look for some heavyweight challengers:eyebrows: There are always a few Lambo's there and I haven't run one of those yet...


You should try and bump into one of our Lambo's out there. That would be way more fun. Stockish ones are slow, no matter the model it seems. Except maybe the SuperLeggera's, but they'd be no matchup for you.

[2.216VTurbo]

You should try and bump into one of our Lambo's out there. That would be way more fun. Stockish ones are slow, no matter the model it seems. Except maybe the SuperLeggera's, but they'd be no matchup for you.

Ha, there was a twin turbo gunmetal grey out there a couple weeks ago but it didn't have that awesome upper Y pipe you make so I know it wasn't one of yours:D

[John B]

There you go Alan, now I'm not the only one telling you your powerstroke IC was ''poo''.


If it ain't three co it's poo fo sho. :D

[Tony Hanna]

Nice work Alan!
I've been kicking around the idea of a multi-core IC made from DSM cores for a few years now, but never made it any farther than planning.:o
I need to get to work!:)

[8valves]

Ha, there was a twin turbo gunmetal grey out there a couple weeks ago but it didn't have that awesome upper Y pipe you make so I know it wasn't one of yours:D


Hmm, I wonder who's then? I wasn't aware that anyone else has done it without blowing them to smitherines! I've heard rumors of it here and there, but never seen it materialize.

Then again, I don't follow that world very well. C&C is probably a great place to bump into one though. I think Wayne with the black Spyder on Dymag carbon fiber wheels is down in that direction. That's a heavy weight car too!

[t3rse]

even the "lite weight" is 3k #s....

[8valves]

even the "lite weight" is 3k #s....

We corner scaled the SL we did that was a Euro spec car from Saudi... IIRC it was 3200 or so.

The Spyder out in Cali weighed in at 3850 I think it was :lol: Then again, it is still a pretty damn fast car. Lots of power will do that I suppose.

[2.216VTurbo]

Nice morning at Cars and Coffee:) On the way out there was new BMW (335?) with the factory turbo, this guy sells reflashes for them, has a dyno graph with 75+ HP gains. I've seen him out there many times, he has the 50HP graphics down the side of his car:lol: I gave him the nod on the 5 freeway and I think we went:confused2: I know I did but he fell back to 8 cars behind so fast I'm not sure he mashed it?

Good show today, a full lot by 7:15 300 or so cars. NBalls was in town visiting his Pops, he was shooting some of the cars so hopefully he will post some pics somewhere...

When I left I tried to pull out with a couple turbo 997 Porsches, but I got stuck and they made the light:( so I ended up getting on the freeway with a 'full race' GT 350 that has the loudest exhaust in the world! I reeled him in quickly on the long onramp, then he wouldn't look at me or go again on the freeway:lol: Pretty uneventfull morning but nothing broke and I made it home without attracting any law enforcement attention:D

I have seen the black wheel Spyder there Aaron, it's on the CarsandCoffe.org site if it was. Guy who takes the shots will usually shoot pretty much every car leaving the lot:thumb:

[cordes]

Sounds like a fun day out there Alan. If I am ever in the area I will have to check it out for sure.

[johnl]

Sheesh, I want to make it but its in the OC and so early . .. . . . . and I got grass to cut . . . .

[BadAssPerformance]

....was new BMW (335?) with the factory turbo, this guy sells reflashes for them, has a dyno graph with 75+ HP gains. I've seen him out there many times, he has the 50HP graphics down the side of his car:lol:......

The 335 turbos are supposed to run 12's... I would say more like 13.00's as the last one I played with could not pull on my Shadow ... +75hp? you would still have him covered :D

[8valves]

The 335 turbos are supposed to run 12's... I would say more like 13.00's as the last one I played with could not pull on my Shadow ... +75hp? you would still have him covered :D


I've got a friend down here with one with A chip, not sure if it's the reflash this particular guys sells. Nevertheless he went 12.7 @ 110 in it. I thought that was pretty respectable!

Alan, it's likely Wayne. Those are Dymag caron fiber wheels on that car :eyebrows:

That car made a bunch of power to overcome the weight!

Alan your car makes me want a Masi motor. After doing the headgasket on one it looks like it has tons of potential for making power rather easily. Espescially with the valvetrain stuff Rick sells.

[BadAssPerformance]

The guy I work with that has one (not the one I raced) said its supposed to run high 12's stock?

[8valves]

The guy I work with that has one (not the one I raced) said its supposed to run high 12's stock?

I have no idea! I just know what Jordan's car ran with the chip. I don't know if he ran it stock, but he said it made a world of difference. Maybe they can go 12.999 @ 106 stock? :p

Which in BMW talk is "in the 12's all day"!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, so true on Bimmer owners! Thats good to know thats with the chip... this guy has never run his, just whatever everyone says about it :rolleyes: I'm going to have to dust the shadow off and see if this guys 335 can run a 12 or not :D

Back on Topic, Turbodave happens to have 3 1G DSM coolers which just happen to be sitting here in my shed for the time being. I was talking with a local guy with a TT Stealth and he was interested in getting a couple of these cores as an upgrade to the OEM Stealth ones and maintain stock location.

[glht_omni]

the yard buy me only charges $18 for ic's. i would just have to go out there more often and snag them before anybody else.

that looks awesome and the rad still gets damn good air flow for having a big fmic.

alan, i'll give ya 6 cores in the winter, just send me back 3 welded into 1 for the r/t.

[Aries_Turbo]

Josh, if you find some more DSM cores in the JY, any chance you can pick some up for me. lemme know

Brian

[glht_omni]

i usually go after the bovs which arent always there, but the ic's usually are still there. i just never knew they could be good in pairs and triplets.
same for the turbo probes turbo conquest and turbo thunderbirds, $18.

i plan on getting a treadstone so i'll start grabbing them when i see them now and let you know how it goes, how many do you need?

how much should it cost to get 3 welded up like that? i know of a few in other various jys, but they would probably be $30 or so. the $18 yard is a pick and pull, find a 555 or 568 and its only $85, complete harness, $28, ecus $32, sohc-dohc complete head $45-70, etc. they rotate stock alot and have a west side yard also, i plan to start hitting both of them soon.

[JamesL]

Nice work Alan, let me know if the day job gets stale and you need a huge salary cut.

[2.216VTurbo]

These coolers are working out well for me but the downside is, they a fairly labor intensive:( I'm not a very fast (or skilled) fabricator, but this last one took like 9+ hours, the TC one took longer than that. An ebay cheapy would be more cost effective... I've already got three more cores thanks Josh:D

[glht_omni]

meh, i tried, lol.