Torque streer with LSD?

[shelbyplaya]

I just got my 90 A523 with OBX LSD (3.50 FD). I bought the LSD from TU and got the bolt and washer up-grade for it. When i got it installed i got new berings and all that good stuff, got it shimmed and pre-loaded proper.

I took it out for a rip and from a 2000 rpm roll i hit the gas and by 3000 (my 310w/tq peak) the car was pulling to the left still. I have an equel lanth axle set up in the car as well.


My question...

Shouldent the car be MUCH easyer to keep in a stright line now?

[rbryant]

They do act differently and you have to keep your hands on the wheel but it shouldn't be a big pull to one side.

Have you gotten an alignment recently? I have heard that alignment issues are exaggerated with an LSD.

-Rich

[JDAWG]

LSD makes you do funny things

[bakes]

check your suspension / steering for worn or soft bushings ,with the power you are now delivering and the extra grip from the lsd you might be flexing up the suspension anough to cause a pull

[Xtrempickup]

felt them pull before, not very fun

[bakes]

funny you would think the lsd would help a lot better then an open diff . i put a 8.8 lsd spring in my gtc and i got rid of any torque steer that it had . In Rat trap im running a welded diff on the street for 6 months now and the more power i use the more it want to center the wheel . plus slow speed tight turn the in side tire chrips and it is hard to turn the wheel that why im putting ps on it.

[turbovanman²]

Uneven tire pressure, worn suspension bushings, worn engine mounts, mismatched tires.

Launching at the drag strip, I could use one finger, :nod:

[shelbyplaya]

Uneven tire pressure, worn suspension bushings, worn engine mounts, mismatched tires.

Launching at the drag strip, I could use one finger, :nod:



yeah, I was thinking of putting a 89 style k-frame, steering rack on, As well as my stiffer lowering springs. It's alot smoother now but it pulls to the left then with the slightest bit of correction it pulls to the right then back and forth... Odd.



Launching at the drag strip with slicks it dosent do it. Nice stright line every time. I guess cuz I launch at around 4500 so I'm above my torque peak.



time to start replacing the little things.

[turbovanman²]

yeah, I was thinking of putting a 89 style k-frame, steering rack on, As well as my stiffer lowering springs. It's alot smoother now but it pulls to the left then with the slightest bit of correction it pulls to the right then back and forth... Odd.



Launching at the drag strip with slicks it dosent do it. Nice stright line every time. I guess cuz I launch at around 4500 so I'm above my torque peak.



time to start replacing the little things.

Mine does that a bit with my 65 series winter tires, but my all seasons, which are wider and shorter, no issues.

[moparzrule]

Is the engine centered to put the same preload on each axle? Other than that, yeah probably worn suspension components.

[shelbyplaya]

Is the engine centered to put the same preload on each axle? Other than that, yeah probably worn suspension components.

the motor may be slightly lower on the driver side. I can never seem to get it perfectly level with the 90+ trans in there. Hever. She does seem to do much better burn out's!


Just gotta start fine tuning things now. It's not as hard as it was befor. It's TS is much smoother now.

[shadow88]

I don't run a limited slip differential, but I found the alignment can pretty much tame out all the torque steer. I set my shadow's camber to -.25 left and -.35 right, the caster is a little high on the passenger side and the toe is a little negative -.10.

I use a 94 k-frame with cast arms. On slicks, there's no noticeable torque steer. Street tires have a small amount, but easily controllable.

I seem to remember you mentioning you removed the power steering. I used to have my lines looped as well. Adding power steering WILL reduce torque steer 1000%

[shelbyplaya]

I don't run a limited slip differential, but I found the alignment can pretty much tame out all the torque steer. I set my shadow's camber to -.25 left and -.35 right, the caster is a little high on the passenger side and the toe is a little negative -.10.

I use a 94 k-frame with cast arms. On slicks, there's no noticeable torque steer. Street tires have a small amount, but easily controllable.

I seem to remember you mentioning you removed the power steering. I used to have my lines looped as well. Adding power steering WILL reduce torque steer 1000%

Yeah. I put PS back in when I installed the new trans. But I couldent find a belt that would fit? the cuple belts I had where to long. So I gotta go on a mission to fine a new shorter belt.

[turbovanman²]

. So I gotta go on a mission to fine a new shorter belt.


The parts store? :confused: :eyebrows:

[John B]

Mine does that a bit with my 65 series winter tires, but my all seasons, which are wider and shorter, no issues.

Are you still using the .91 gear set? What tire diameter (the ones with no issues)?

[turbovanman²]

Are you still using the .91 gear set? What tire diameter (the ones with no issues)?

Using the stock van diff ratio, .91 transfer gears. My winter tires are true winter tires, P215/65R15 and it moves under accel, I only use those in the snow and switch to my regular all seasons, which are Nankang 500's, P225/55R16, very still sidewall, :thumb:

I think my issue is the preload inside, I never did update the washers, just welded the stockers back together, lol!

[Vigo]

if its pulling that means its spinning one of the tires slightly. any time you have a torque biasing diff its not going to go in a straight line unless there is 0 spin at either wheel. if one is losing grip, powers going to transfer to the other side and cause the car to pull, just like having only one working brake caliper would, only its accel instead of decel. i would try and increase traction on the side that the car is pulling towards, whether that be by preloading the swaybar or messing with tire pressures a bit or crossjacking with spacers in the back, etc.

[glht_omni]

all of my suspension is new or newer and its all tight, i haver wider taller tires and a phantom grip lsd, i can literally sock it from a dead stop or a roll without touching the steering wheel and it pulls straight as it can be. i also have the battery in the pass side of the trunk, the reartorsion bar shimmed 3/16" got rid of the ac, abs and emissions and i myself weigh in at 160lbs.

[shadow88]

^^^^^But, you have power steering, right?

I can say from experience, putting power steering back in greatly reduces torque steer. Any word on that belt, Shelbyplaya?

[glht_omni]

yup i still have the pump hooked up, makes turning them 225/60/15's a breeze.

[RoadWarrior222]

check your suspension / steering for worn or soft bushings ,with the power you are now delivering and the extra grip from the lsd you might be flexing up the suspension anough to cause a pull

+1

LSDs mask alignment and suspension problems. Before I grenaded the "S spring" mod, I was getting what I thought was huge torque steer in the wet... well turned out I had my suspension set toe out without realising it and it was only when one tire substantially lost grip it would yank like hell to the other side... However it didn't "feel" toe out.

[shelbyplaya]

^^^^^But, you have power steering, right?

I can say from experience, putting power steering back in greatly reduces torque steer. Any word on that belt, Shelbyplaya?

No word on the belt yet. I've been focusing on the fuel lines and what not in the car (and it was my birthday last weekend so i went camping ;) ).

I'll try a new belt i found last night and if that dosent work i'll rob one off my gf's car:love:

[Vigo]

power steering aint gonna make your tires stick but i guess its worth a shot.

[shelbyplaya]

power steering aint gonna make your tires stick but i guess its worth a shot.

no but it should help controll it.

[shelbyplaya]

destroyed the driver side axle tonight... Could that possably be telling me what side is still getting favored with power or what?

[bakes]

I hope you didnt hurt it too bad ? Was it the inner or out cv that let go?

[moparzrule]

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/centerengine.html

[shelbyplaya]

the diff is fine. i actuly snapped the iron part of the axle in half about 1/2" befor the innner CV.

[BadAssPerformance]

I have an OBX in the Z A568/523gear unequal length DSS axles manual rack... and also an OBX in the Shadow A555/520gear equal length stock axles powerless power rack... no torque steer in either, but both have decent alignments too.

[shelbyplaya]

I have an OBX in the Z A568/523gear unequal length DSS axles manual rack... and also an OBX in the Shadow A555/520gear equal length stock axles powerless power rack... no torque steer in either, but both have decent alignments too.


hummm....


I'll have to get it checked then. the car is com ing off the road in a few weeks any ways.

Sadly my biggest worrie about the trans is that when i pilled the axle I found that at some point water had gotten into the trans. The oil looked like milk!!!!!



She's gonna get a good flushing today and hope nothing serious happend!!!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Ouch! I had that happen to the diff in my white Dak, condensation maybe? As long as there are no metal debris a good flush and re-oil should fix it.

[shelbyplaya]

Ouch! I had that happen to the diff in my white Dak, condensation maybe? As long as there are no metal debris a good flush and re-oil should fix it.

I truly hope it does. I've for some detergents in it now but i cant run the car yet due to the fact that i removed the timing belt tenchner and the timing came out of wack, So now i'm waiting on a buddie to come over so we can re-set it. Then I'm gonna run it for a few minuets, flush the trans, fill it with 5-30 run it. Then check and see if the oil is still clean.....

I did find it to be a bit more diffacult to slide the axles into the diff now :confused2:

[t3rse]

It is physically impossible to eliminate torque steer. You may have reduced it to a very mild level...and are used to it....

[BadAssPerformance]

True, nothing is ever 100%... if you take even an 80hp carbed Omni and take your hands off the wheel and stab the throtle from a roll in first, it will pull to a side... just like a RWD car will get sideways in the snow.

[shelbyplaya]

yeah. It's jsut extreamly hard to handel the car with the way it is now.....

But strange thing is that with my slicks she goes in a stright line every time!!!!

[glht_omni]

how many of you can let go of the wheel in 2nd or 3rd and spool to 15psi without hitting the curb? i can do it in my r/t, no bull ----, but all my suspension is like new, new wider, taller tires and an alignment, plus i deleted about 200lbs and have been playing around with weight transfering, front and rear swaybars. my car stays flat and is very easy to drive.

[BadAssPerformance]

Sounds like you got yours setup well there :thumb:

[shelbyplaya]

I think I *may* have found one of my issues today! I had the hub off the ball joint when changing the axle so i was able to handel the controll arm on the driver side. I gave it a good shake and found the hinge joint was pretty much gone, had alot of play in it. So I guess i have an excuse to swap over to an 89 k-frame as well as toss in my suspention techneques springs as well.

should help out alot!!!!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Gotta have good LCA bushings, sounds like you found the issue :thumb:

[glht_omni]

i'd say you found the culprit too, my white r/t had semi worn tierods and LCA bushings and when in boost and on uneven ground, it was down right scary.

in the red r/t i drive now with the old uneven tires (PO ran wrong direction) that came on there, i could not go over 60mph without shaking real bad or pulling real bad under boost and that was with the lsd in.


thanks jt, my plan is to do all i can this year with the body, suspension, interior and balancing and then add power over the winter, break it out in the spring and see if it still pulls straight beyond 15 psi.

i know gary and gus were huge on weight transfering, shaving and shimming suspension and i have been playing around with it and with the tires and lsd, its been pretty easy.

when i first deleted the ac and abs it still pulled a little to the right, i now have 1/4" shim on the driver side front and rear swaybar ends and 1/8" shim on the rear panhard bar where it mounts to the floor. i still need to get it on 4 individual scales to actually see where its is, but by making 1 change at a time and testing on the street i have been able to make improvements.

[Vigo]

But strange thing is that with my slicks she goes in a stright line every time!!!!

as per my previous post, makes sense.

hope the ball joint fixes things. replacing LCA bushings would be a good idea while you're there. even if you do one side while you're doing the ball joint and the other side in a few weeks, its one less thing to worry about.

[shelbyplaya]

as per my previous post, makes sense.

hope the ball joint fixes things. replacing LCA bushings would be a good idea while you're there. even if you do one side while you're doing the ball joint and the other side in a few weeks, its one less thing to worry about.

I'm changing the k-frame. The 87 one sucks. I'm going to an 89 style.

[Vigo]

that sounds great! the newer LCA design would allow less deflection under power than the old one, seems like...

[boost geek]

how many of you can let go of the wheel in 2nd or 3rd and spool to 15psi without hitting the curb? i can do it in my r/t, no bull ----, but all my suspension is like new, new wider, taller tires and an alignment, plus i deleted about 200lbs and have been playing around with weight transfering, front and rear swaybars. my car stays flat and is very easy to drive.

Probably because your holding the steering wheel with your 3rd tit. (see avatar):D

[glht_omni]

oh no, i dont let her drive, people gawk at her and its a red car, i dont want anyone side swiping me from staring too hard.