Help me plan the S-10 build!

[Tony Hanna]

I recently ended up with a vehicle that I've wanted for quite awhile. It's an '85 S-10 pickup that's had the original drivetrain swapped for a 350 SBC/TH350. As it sits now, it has a mild 350 with way too much cam and 4.56 gears. So basically it sounds neat and will destroy 1 rear tire, but aside from that, it's pretty worthless.
I really need some help with what direction to take this project. It's going to be awhile before I get started on it (the Sundance has priority), but I can use the time to start planning the build and gathering some parts.:thumb:

The problem I'm having is with trying to decide between a mild street build involving a TPI conversion, reasonable gears (3.08 or 3.42), and maybe a nitrous kit for a little extra kick, or going all out and building a nasty alcohol motor, 4 link, narrowed 9" rear, slicks, etc and ending up with something that's barely street legal at best and more or less worthless other than to take to the track every once in awhile.

I'm really leaning toward a street build because I'd get more use out of it but then again, everything I've ever fooled with I've approached about the same way and it might be fun to do something different this time around.

Anyhow, I could use some input on how to approach this. Any suggestions on which way to go with it and why would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tony

[bakes]

I helped build 3 of them with friends but the most fun was one that had a 400sb (400hp est ) 700r4 and 410 spooled rear end it did eveything well DD to smoke shows .
the other one was more pro street was not as fun unless you were at the track ,couldn't carry any thing in the back ether.

[black86glhs]

Just don't use the stock TPI setup if you go the street truck route(thats my vote). It won't have enough air flow to make any beans above 4800 rpm. After market setup FTW.:nod:

[turbovanman]

Hard to say, what is your intended goal?

[Tony Hanna]

Just don't use the stock TPI setup if you go the street truck route(thats my vote). It won't have enough air flow to make any beans above 4800 rpm. After market setup FTW.:nod:

What all is involved with the aftermarket setup? I can get a stock setup including engine (complete with everything but with a spun rod bearing), computer, and wiring harness for around $100 from a friend. Would I be ahead to go with that and then upgrade the manifold and use a different set of heads or buy a complete aftermarket efi setup? For that matter, I guess I could add injector bosses to a performance intake, modify a 4 barrel carb to serve as a throttlebody, and run the thing with megasquirt... I'm definitely open to researching all my options at this point.:nod:
Thanks,
Tony

[turbovanman]

The runners and base ie intake are restrictive so you can replace them with aftermarket units but then you might as well replace the upper piece too, lol!

Go with an LT1 setup, :nod:

[Tony Hanna]

Hard to say, what is your intended goal?

That's just it, I haven't really set a goal yet. It's more exploring my options at this point. I'm leaning toward trying to make a quick street ride out of it though. Maybe something that would run a low to mid 13 1/4 but still be daily driver friendly and capable of doing some light hauling (motorcycle). That seems like it might be the best way to go since I'd still be able to use it as transportation instead of having something that's just a toy.:)

[Tony Hanna]

The runners and base ie intake are restrictive so you can replace them with aftermarket units but then you might as well replace the upper piece too, lol!

Go with an LT1 setup, :nod:

Is there any way to make the LT1 intake setup work with a gen1 block and heads? I know they have a reverse flow cooling system but I don't know if that would be a problem or whether or not the parts would bolt up...
Thanks,
Tony

[black86glhs]

The runners and base ie intake are restrictive so you can replace them with aftermarket units but then you might as well replace the upper piece too, lol!

Go with an LT1 setup, :nod:
DING, DING....we have a winner. The LT1 setup doesn't run out of air like the TPI. LT1 will drop right in place of the TPI manifold.

[Tony Hanna]

DING, DING....we have a winner. The LT1 setup doesn't run out of air like the TPI. LT1 will drop right in place of the TPI manifold.

Nice! So in order to run it on a set of gen1 heads, all I'd need to do is slot the center bolt holes in the manifold (like you would to run an older manifold on a post '87 set of heads) right?
What about the distributer though? The LT1 uses that goofy optispark setup on the front of the engine. Is there even a hole in the manifold in the normal location for a distributer? I should know this stuff but I never really got into either of my LT1 cars that far.:o

[black86glhs]

Actually, for the hassle it can be, you would be better off getting an aftermarket TPI manifold and runners. Put 1.6 roller rockers on it. That is where I am at currently.

[Tony Hanna]

Actually, for the hassle it can be, you would be better off getting an aftermarket TPI manifold and runners. Put 1.6 roller rockers on it. That is where I am at currently.

That's kind of what I was thinking initially. I figured I'd buy the stock setup first. For the money, it seems worth it to have the computer, harness, injectors, sensors, distributer, etc even if I don't use the manifold and runners.

On the electrical end of things, is there a program available for DIY cals for the GM stuff? Maybe a GM equivalent to chem or d-cal?
Thanks,
Tony

[Tony Hanna]

Ok, how does this sound for a possibility?
Bowtie Vortech heads, stock rotating assembly (maybe balanced), mild cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and top it with a Holley Commander 950 TBI system. The Commander 950 will work with a 2 or 3 bar map sensor, so it would be perfect for a forced induction project later. I could bolt it right on top of one of the little 177ci Weiand blowers, or even feed it with a centrifugal sc or a pair of turbos.:evil:

[black86glhs]

That sounds fine to me. Would be very streetable but fun.

[Tony Hanna]

Well, I just got talked out of the Vortech heads in favor of a set of these:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/195sbc_sh.php
The price will probably have me running a carb for awhile but I'll go ahead and pick the cam and intake I want for the EFI setup so I can install it with no major headaches once funds allow.

[Tony Hanna]

Ok, I need help with a judgement call on gearing. As it sits, the truck is geared so low that I'm hesitant to try to drive it on the 1 1/2 hour interstate trip to get it home.
Before I got the truck, John had collected a 3 series LSD carrier for it, so all I really need is a ring, pinion, and some bearings. If I'm going to be driving it on the interstate any at all, I really need at the lowest a 3.73 gear, but probably should go with something a little higher. I'm stuck deciding between 3.42 or 3.23.
I can get either gearset used off ebay for a reasonable price ($40 + shipping for the 3.23 and $60 + shipping for the 3.42).
Any thoughts on 1 over the other?
Thanks,
Tony

[bakes]

Ok, I need help with a judgement call on gearing. As it sits, the truck is geared so low that I'm hesitant to try to drive it on the 1 1/2 hour interstate trip to get it home.
Before I got the truck, John had collected a 3 series LSD carrier for it, so all I really need is a ring, pinion, and some bearings. If I'm going to be driving it on the interstate any at all, I really need at the lowest a 3.73 gear, but probably should go with something a little higher. I'm stuck deciding between 3.42 or 3.23.
I can get either gearset used off ebay for a reasonable price ($40 + shipping for the 3.23 and $60 + shipping for the 3.42).
Any thoughts on 1 over the other?
Thanks,
Tony

3spd trans 3.73. if 4spd auto try 4.10 with a lockup tc and the over dive when in top gear it will feel like you have 350to 373 in it plus the 700r has stump low 1st gear

[cordes]

keep it to where you can drive it on the street.

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

WOULD BE A FUN TRUCK, TBI BE GOOD ,VORTEK HEADS BE BETTER,7OOr4, WITH A LITTLE CONVERTER 2000- 2500 STALL,GEARS FROM A ,LATE F- BODY 3.5-3,73 POSI,A LITTLE JUICE,AND YOUR COOKING,LOL FOR KINDA CHEEP.
OR GET A 427 SMALL BLOCK, POWERGLIDE, WITH 4000 STALL CONVERTER, 9'' INCH 4.56's
CAL TRACKS,29 BY 11'' SLICKS,, WITH 2 STAGE 300 HP,LOL, OR A 671 ,HUFFER,AND YOU'L
BE REALLY COOKING, WITH THE HABACHI IN THE BED,

[87 charger]

Well 455 Olds fits in there :eyebrows::eyebrows:. It won't be a drop in like the 350 kits are,but 500+ lbs of trq..should move one REAL NICE.
Really though super chevy mag did a bunch of different builds on the same motor called project danger mouse. The comp 262 cam and vortec heads worked AWESOME over 400 hp and streetable. SO you might look into the danger mouse build. It is a VERY interesting read for a small block chevy for sure.
Here is the link
http://www.superchevy.com/tech/0312sc_355_cid_short_block/index.html

[87 charger]

With that build and a set of 3.42's ,700r4 with a 2500 rpm stall would rocket that truck in the mid to low 12's and be a nice daily driver.:nod:

[Tony Hanna]

Thanks for all the suggestions everybody!
The guy that had the stock tuned port setup set a price I couldn't refuse. For $75 I got the computer, wiring harness, intake, throttlebody, injectors, distributer, all the sensors, and as a bonus everything to convert the truck to a serpentine belt system for $75.
Looks like I'll be going the TPI route after all. He's also got a 700r4 that he'll take $100 for.

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

OLDS,SOUNDS LIKE A AWESOME IDEA, HOW ABOUT A 500 cube CADDY

[Aries_Turbo]

with the TPI setup i think you can use tunerpro and rom burners and stuff like that.

i vote reasonable heads, really mild cam and a pair of holset hy 35's and aftermarket tpi runners.

youll need 2 fuel pumps, prolly pistons and rods and a th400 or a really built th350 to handle that.

best bang for the buck imo given the parts you have.

if you didnt have that tpi stuff, id say ls1. :)

Brian

[1984rampage]

twin turbo for sure

[Tony Hanna]

Twins would definitely be fun! I'll be happy just to get it running on the EFI n/a for now.
I'm still trying to settle on a set of heads at this point. At the price, I'm really having a hard time trying to justify the AFR's. The cylinder heads are going to be the major setback on this project. If I already had them, I could get started on it, but if I end up buying a $1500 set of heads, I'm going to have to wait until the outage work starts up this fall before I can afford them.

I've been doing a little bit of reading on the LT1 aluminum heads. They're selling really cheap because they're supposed to be worthless for anything but an LT1 because of the reverse flow cooling system. It turns out that you can use them on a gen1 block if you block a couple coolant passages, drill and tap the heads for external water fittings, and use a remote thermostat housing. It's evidently not a widely done swap, but the one case of it I read about produced some good results. They might be worthwhile for a low buck set of heads with a little effort put in to make them work.

I've also been looking at some aluminum heads from Pro Comp and Patriot Performance in the 190-210 cc range for about 1/2 the price of the AFRs. Mixed reviews on those though.

[Aries_Turbo]

for those head prices you could buy a LS1

Brian

[87 charger]

The vortec heads under $500 is unbeatable. You can go to the dealership and get them new.
If I went back to chevy I would build mine with vortec heads without a doubt. The AFR heads kick butt,but the vortecs flow as good as trick flow heads right out the box.....stock!

[87 charger]

OLDS,SOUNDS LIKE A AWESOME IDEA, HOW ABOUT A 500 cube CADDY

With a Bravada grille and tailights you could really mess with some people. If you paint it black with a gold lower stripe with Bravada SS decals. Add 87 442 gold rims and add the lightning rod shifter from the hurst olds.
.....insto 1 of 1

I feel I will do this one day.:eyebrows::eyebrows: :thumb:
With 425 cubes from 66! :nod:

[Tony Hanna]

for those head prices you could buy a LS1

Brian

That's why I've been looking really hard at the LT1 heads. It's looking like if I catch the right auction, I could get a pair for $200 on ebay. The conversion to run them on a gen 1 block doesn't look all that involved with the only machine work being a resurface after the plugs are welded in. John can weld the plugs in and drill/tap for the water fittings at work, so the only real cash outlay would be for the resurface and the plumbing necessary for the remote t-stat housing. On top of that, there are plenty of LT1 f-bodys running 12-11 sec 1/4's on the stock heads, so the potential to make decent power with them is there.:thumb:


The vortec heads under $500 is unbeatable. You can go to the dealership and get them new.
If I went back to chevy I would build mine with vortec heads without a doubt. The AFR heads kick butt,but the vortecs flow as good as trick flow heads right out the box.....stock!

Right! The Vortec heads are proven performers. I'm in complete agreement with that. The price for the heads is nice as well, but the total cost of using them is understated. What I mean by that is by the time I spend $500 for the heads and another $400 for the TPI intake base made to work with the raised runners and bolt pattern of the Vortecs, I could have bought a good (not AFR's, but good) set of aftermarket heads that would be a bolt-on with the intake base I already have.

Thanks for the ideas guys, keep 'em coming!

Tony

[87 charger]

When I had the Z28 I made it for the street. I bored it 30 over,bought a set of stock casting 64 cc 2.02 heads from indy cylinder head for $500 dollars.
I used this combo.
Speed pro forged 9.5 to 1 slugs
Edelbrock RPM cam
Edelbrock RPM intake
750 edelbrock
Crane roller rockers 1.5 ratio
3.42 gears
3000 stall
350 turbo rebuilt with shift kit

I put this in a 83 Z28 and on street tires I ran 8.38 1/8 mile over and over and over. With a 8.23 best E.T when it was about 60 outside on a cool night
Very good street car. I got about 15 to 18 mpg driving nice...:D
I later went stroker and 294 comp extreme and a victor JR intake and 4.11 gears and ran lower mid 7's
That first combo was a awesome street build though. I would do it again