2.0 Vs. 2.4? Just Facts!

[altered7151]

Okay before you tell me to use "search" or Neons.org, let me tell you I spent the good chunk of my day at work, and haven't found an answer I'm satisfied with. So I'm hoping some of the 420A experts can speak up here with comments. I dont want to hear that your "brothers friends transvestite room-mate" had a 2.0 and it sucked. I want real world experience, or at least info from a reliable source.

Once my SC is road worthy and to the point I can enjoy it finally, I have another "certain project" in the works. It will see double duty not only as a drag car, but also as a land speed car. With being in close proximity to both Bonneville and El Mirage, I'd be a fool to not take advantage of it. If you're not familar with land speed rules, your class is dependant on your style of car, and also engine size. The split between class G and F is 2.0L. Since a 2.4 is most likely going to do drag duty, I am seriously considering a 2.0 as the land speed motor, since it will put me at the high end of the G (1.6-2.0L) instead of at the bottom of F (2.01-3.0). The issue is whether or not the 2.0 block will hold up. Half the info I find says its plenty strong enough, the other half say its garbage. It seems to me its a very similar block besides the deck height. Keep in mind that this motor will see different stresses then a drag motor, it wont see the sudden stress of a launch or hard gear changes, but it will be wound out to its max rpm several times over a few miles.

[TurbododgePirate]

Tyler what exactly are you asking about the 2.0 VS the 2.4? Are you going to do Turbo motors or NA? There are so many different variances.

2.4 good block, with a 2.4 crank, 2.5 rods, and some forged pistons, you can lay down some pretty serious power.

2.0 is fine. I have a DOHC 2.0 RT with 140K miles driven hard and up to the computer controlled 7500 RPM redline.

Are you going to leave them stock, or upgrade all the internals? You can get a CNC ported head from INDY cylinder heads that flows 315 CFM intake, and I believe 70% of that for exhaust.

Like the 2.2 and 2.5 the 2.0 seems to be a higher revving, lower torque (133ft/lb stock) motor, and the 2.4 a higher torque motor.


I am doing a 2.4 swap in my charger, because I can use 2.5 rods... otherwise I would probably have just used a 2.0 neon setup. ~~Heath

[TurbododgePirate]

Oh, and if you're worried about the block, find a good one, machine it, and get it cryo treated.

[rbryant]

Can you use a 2.0 crank in a 2.4 block?

Deck height can be milled some and pistons can be made taller or not dished.

-Rich

[altered7151]

Tyler what exactly are you asking about the 2.0 VS the 2.4? Are you going to do Turbo motors or NA? There are so many different variances.

2.4 good block, with a 2.4 crank, 2.5 rods, and some forged pistons, you can lay down some pretty serious power.

2.0 is fine. I have a DOHC 2.0 RT with 140K miles driven hard and up to the computer controlled 7500 RPM redline.

Are you going to leave them stock, or upgrade all the internals? You can get a CNC ported head from INDY cylinder heads that flows 315 CFM intake, and I believe 70% of that for exhaust.

Like the 2.2 and 2.5 the 2.0 seems to be a higher revving, lower torque (133ft/lb stock) motor, and the 2.4 a higher torque motor.


I am doing a 2.4 swap in my charger, because I can use 2.5 rods... otherwise I would probably have just used a 2.0 neon setup. ~~Heath

Sorry, guess I should have been more specific. High output turbo motor. I'm talking like 600+ hp range. I'm mainly only worried about the block and crank. I know the pistons and rods obviously need to go, by with the cryo-treatement is it feasible or am I going to be throwing money down a endless pit?

[Frank]

Its cryo then machine... or so I thought.


Anyway, the 2.0L can make good HP if you rev it... however you need to rev it to like 8500rpms. To do that you have to go with the INDY big valve heads (320cfm), a custom intake, and equal length header. You would need a T61 compressor and a StageV T350 Precision turbine and be luckly to have full boost by 5000rpms. It would be rocket ship, but that is what you would need. Probably 4-5" exhaust. You can run race gas, with a good progressive Methanol spray with some kind of intercooler.



Frank

[Whorse]

I think you have to machine first, get everything milled, planed, bored, polished, because after it's cryo treated you get too much chatter on the bits. Correct me if I'm off, just my understanding.

[WVRampage]

2.0 is strong and runs got in the hig rev range I had a neon with 10.5 to 1 je pistons and eagle rods it could stay in the 5 to 6k range for a long time and be good to go for more.It was a single cam with stock head and cam.

[altered7151]

Its cryo then machine... or so I thought.


Anyway, the 2.0L can make good HP if you rev it... however you need to rev it to like 8500rpms. To do that you have to go with the INDY big valve heads (320cfm), a custom intake, and equal length header. You would need a T61 compressor and a StageV T350 Precision turbine and be luckly to have full boost by 5000rpms. It would be rocket ship, but that is what you would need. Probably 4-5" exhaust. You can run race gas, with a good progressive Methanol spray with some kind of intercooler.



Frank

Sounds good Frank, thats the kind of info I was looking for. High RPM is what I'm looking for. The salt can't hold much torque so the lowend would go to waste anyways. I've talked to guys running honda's that had issues with traction out there, so I would imagine a 2.4 would struggle a bit. Although there are a couple 2.4's running out there now. My main reason is the class allowance. The engine will go in a car with no space restrictions (well some, but not like an l-body) so anything is possible. Most likely will be an ice-cooled water-to-air intercooler, possibly running on alcohol, or gas with methanol injection. I actually have been considering a honda motor, just because of the power potential up high, but it would be nice to swap inbetween the 2.4 and 2.0, once a trans adapter is made then they will be a bolt in deal.

[Frank]

I would recommend that you do a PT1000 a/w intercooler unit from Gasketmaster (auth td vendor).

If this is seriously for a salt flats car, then that is just sweet! I personally would attempt to do the following....
2.0L Neon
INDY Big Valve head for 320CFM
INDY Intake using only the runner half and building a custom plenum box
Equal length headers.
Two rows of 52lb/hr injectors - 1 for race gas, 1 for methanol. Adjust the pressures so that you get around 60% gas and 30% fuel. Run all the injectors off of the same drivers. Should be equal rates of increase.
A PT1000 A/W intercooler
4" intake/intercooler pipping
5" exhaust
Good timing box
10:1 compression


Frank

[David Bohrer]

First off the 2.0 DOHC is a solid motor. There have been numerous units that have layed down over 500whp with stock cranks and cylinder heads under stupid amounts of boost. As for a salt flats car in some sort of Dodge good luck with custom gear sets if it is a neon!

[altered7151]

I was hoping you'd speak up Dave, so inbetween your's and Frank's opinions, I'm pretty much set on going with a 2.0. I kind of didn't want to tell everyone what I was up to in case it doesn't work out, but as things sit right now my father and I are in the process of ordering a 220" or 230" dragster chassis. My father is a hard core air-cooled VW racer from back in the day, before moving onto nostalgia V-8 racing. He wanted to give up drag racing to do some street-rod work, but as we all know you cant get it out of your system. So he has a bad itch to go drag racing again, as well as doing some land speed racing after spending a few days out a bonneville the past few years. We were trying to find a car that is as versital (sp?) as possible. We figured a dragster with a 2.4/2.0 would be the best option. With that we can race at the local track in an index class, run events such as mopars at the strip, and also run the sport compact events. Plus with a little fairing work the dragster would be a perfect fit in the lakester class. The project will probably start off with a powerglide tranny, then progress onto a 4 or 5 speed planetary tranny. I'll keep everyone posted as parts arrive and decisions are made.

[87csx2.4]

Here is something to look at if you think the 2.4 wont do it.http://racedeckracing.com/cars.html

[turbovanman²]

Its cryo then machine... or so I thought.



Machine first, then cryo. Cyro makes it hard so you want everything setup first, then cryo'd.

Sounds like a fun project Tyler, keeps us informed, :thumb:

[altered7151]

Here is something to look at if you think the 2.4 wont do it.http://racedeckracing.com/cars.html

Yeah I met those guys at bonneville a couple years ago. They just had the roadster, not the neon yet. Thats one of the cars that definitally got me thinking about running that motor setup in a lakester/streamliner. They definitally had a top notch setup. I never thought the 2.4 wouldn't do it, I just was trying to fit into the next class down engine wise.

[Frank]

The intake on the roadster is awesome! I would so use that design. If you have one made, I would buy one at the same time... might help with costs... seriously.

http://racedeckracing.com/images/engine_big.jpg



Frank

[turbovanman²]

The intake on the roadster is awesome! I would so use that design. If you have one made, I would buy one at the same time... might help with costs... seriously.

http://racedeckracing.com/images/engine_big.jpg



Frank

Thats HAWT, :amen:

[altered7151]

The intake on the roadster is awesome! I would so use that design. If you have one made, I would buy one at the same time... might help with costs... seriously.

http://racedeckracing.com/images/engine_big.jpg



Frank

That intake has a Darrell Cox sticker, and when I talked to him on the salt, he said he had got alot of parts from him. So I dont even want to know what that piece cost him. I have a tig welder in the works, once I get fully moved into the new house it will get moved over there. My flowbench will also get put together, so I have some plans to work on not only a 16 valve intake, but also an upper plenum to bolt onto the 2-piece lower runners. I'll keep everyone informed and take lots of pictures of the build. If you're interested in an intake when I get up and running I'm sure we can work something out Frank :thumb:

[89acclaim]

Altered7151, BadFastGTC is putting a 2.0 crank in a commonblock so that opens up more directions you could go. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
I look forward to hearing about project. :thumb:

Daniel Merrill

[altered7151]

Altered7151, BadFastGTC is putting a 2.0 crank in a commonblock so that opens up more directions you could go. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
I look forward to hearing about project. :thumb:

Daniel Merrill

:clap2: :clap2:
Thats awesome. I'd definitally be interested in seeing how that works. That would be the hot set-up if it works. 16V-Hybrid commonblock with the 2.0 crank, long rod setup. Let that sucker breath and zing it up to about 8500-9000 rpm. Best part of that is common blocks are a dime a dozen, and so are the 2.0 neon motors. I know I could go out to pick and pull right not and get at least 5-6 of each.

[4cefedomni]

you should look into using toluene or xylene for fuel very high octane and a very similar btu factor as gasoline (toluene is in gasoline). methanol is corrosive and will eat your fuel system also the btu factor is about half that of gas so you would have to use twice as much. i plan on using toluene you can get it at paint stores in 55gal drums if you want to order it in.i'm not totaly sure but the octane of toluene is 114 and xylene is about 118 depending on the isotopes.(there are 3 types of xylene all with different octane ratings). price wise its cheaper than racegas of comparable octane.

[turbovanman²]

Not really, I think its 20% tol to gas, so 3 gallons gas, 1 gall tol. I did this with 94 octane, works out to 102 ish. The tol was $20 for one gallon. C16 is $12 a litre and guaranteed to work. Sure you pay alot more but wow, does it ever work and the smell, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :amen:

[altered7151]

For the land speed racing, I believe you have to buy the fuel they have on location, no outside fuel. There are very sticky about their rules, so it makes it easier for them to regulate everything.

[4cefedomni]

i'm not talking about cuting gas with toluene i'm running straight toluene and the octane is 114 and a 55gal drum from general paint is about $500 canadian plus taxes i'm lucky as i can get it cheaper through my company though i'm not sure exactly what my cost will be as i have not ordered any yet.on another note thats a bummer if you have to use thier gas i hope you get some in advance so you can tune for it. Also xylene is more expensive than toluene but i'm not sure on the cost of that but my company gets thiers for about $700 canadian including taxes.

[4cefedomni]

if you follow indy racing you might remember that they used a toluene mix back in the 1980s that enabled 1.5 litre engines to have over 70 psi of boost and power levels of about 1500 bhp the mix they used was 80% toluene and 20% an inert liquid to make it legal for use in the races.

[4cefedomni]

i just researched some more the mix was 84% toluene and 16% n-heptane which has an octane of 0, all it is, is filler.