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CaptMoe
07-04-2008, 01:16 PM
What is the difference between the two?

And what is the difference between a Stage 2 and a Stage 3 wheel?

Will this setup work with a 2.5" exhaust?

Moe
tryingbe
07-04-2008, 01:31 PM
There are two type of 50 trim wheel.

Type of wheel Inducer: Exducer:
Garrett T3 "50 trim" 1.674 inch 2.367 inch
Garrett T04E "50 trim" 2.122 inch 3.000 inch
Turbonetics T04E Super "50 trim" 2.122 inch 3.20 inch


Turbine Wheels
Trim Exducer Dia. Major Dia.
Stage I / Std. 1.898 inch 2.319 inch
Stage II 2.122 inch 2.559 inch
Stage III 2.229 inch 2.559 inch

I suggest you use this calculator and see what will match your setup.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php
CaptMoe
07-04-2008, 01:50 PM
wow. Thanks for that link.
I was great in math but i seriously have no idea what I'm looking at.

I've read that for the TIII the 50 trim T3/T4 with a stage 2 wheel is the perfect setup.

So i just wanted to know the differences between the options stated in the OP...
tryingbe
07-04-2008, 02:16 PM
You have to state the application and the goal of your car.
CaptMoe
07-04-2008, 05:26 PM
My goal is around 350whp.

I have a '93 IROC RT, completely stock except for a 2.5" exhaust...
tryingbe
07-04-2008, 05:34 PM
You might want to bookmark this site.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php
CaptMoe
07-05-2008, 05:12 PM
You might want to bookmark this site.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/index.php

Ok, that's the second time you post that page. I'm trying to tell you I have no idea how that helps me, how to read it or what values I'm suppose to be entering.

I just want to know what the difference is between a 50 Trim and a Super 50 trim.

The difference between a Stage 2 wheel and a Stage 3 wheel.

And if I upgrade to a bigger turbo, will I need to upgrade my 2.5" exhaust?

Thanks...
rx2mazda
07-05-2008, 11:00 PM
well, he gave you a break-down of each wheel. I thought you were good at math? lol

As you can see, each wheel is a different size. the bigger the size the more flow the turbo can produce. Basically, the "super"50 can flow a little bit more than the 50. As far as turbine stages, the higher the stage the better it will flow. This comes at the expense of low end power since it take more exhaust energy to get it moving. The turbine blade angle/numbers are also changed over stages but, lets not get into that...

If your shooting for 350whp than just get the 50trim stage II .63 a/r, plenty people have put more power than that down with said turbo. I have this turbo also but mine is a stage III
CaptMoe
07-06-2008, 08:23 AM
well, he gave you a break-down of each wheel. I thought you were good at math? lol

As you can see, each wheel is a different size. the bigger the size the more flow the turbo can produce. Basically, the "super"50 can flow a little bit more than the 50. As far as turbine stages, the higher the stage the better it will flow. This comes at the expense of low end power since it take more exhaust energy to get it moving. The turbine blade angle/numbers are also changed over stages but, lets not get into that...

If your shooting for 350whp than just get the 50trim stage II .63 a/r, plenty people have put more power than that down with said turbo. I have this turbo also but mine is a stage III

Amazing how numbers can be translated into words so easily...lol

Thanks. Now, is this something I can use my 2.5" exhaust with or will I have to upgrade?

Moe
85daytona
07-06-2008, 10:02 AM
You could use it just to see how far it'll take you but in reality it will be a bottleneck around 350crank hp I think...The 50 trim and Super 50 are both really good just make sure your getting the T04E housing though...Words of wisdom on reading those maps for every count of 10 on the x axis is equivalent to 100 crank hp just input your engine specs and choose the turbo map to see around about your efficiency...The rings in the center are very efficient and less as your plot moves away from the center ring...Left of the surge line is also bad but it doesn't matter get the T04E 50 trim or Super 50trim along with a stage 2 or stage 3 wheel and it'll do wonders on that 16v :thumb: I thought I read the Super 50 trim has a more up to date better wheel design so I plan to go with it on my 8v...
rx2mazda
07-06-2008, 12:40 PM
I think getting to 350whp with a 2.5 exhuast and a cat will be harder. The single best thing you can do for a turbo car is open the exhaust up. If you don't have a cat than you could probably get by but, I would get a 3inch Dp and exhaust eventually.
Turbo3Iroc
07-06-2008, 02:35 PM
Putting a hybrid on a TIII requires a custom down pipe anyway. Might as well do it all right then.
turbovanmanČ
07-06-2008, 03:02 PM
Putting a hybrid on a TIII requires a custom down pipe anyway. Might as well do it all right then.

Yep, theres no bolt on solution anymore, :(

Good info on DP options (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12554)

I would go with the super50, stage II wheel, .63 housing. 2.5 inch exhaust will do the job and is easier to route-just make sure its mandrel bent.
CaptMoe
07-06-2008, 03:11 PM
Yep, theres no bolt on solution anymore, :(

Good info on DP options (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12554)

I would go with the super50, stage II wheel, .63 housing. 2.5 inch exhaust will do the job and is easier to route-just make sure its mandrel bent.

So the Super 50 is not a hybrid, correct?

Keep in mind I'm not looking to make this a track car and for the time being I am required to pass inspection so a cat is mandatory. That may change in the future. And if it does and I'm able to upgrade, is there a 3" system out there custom made for the Daytona?

Moe
turbovanmanČ
07-06-2008, 03:15 PM
So the Super 50 is not a hybrid, correct?

Keep in mind I'm not looking to make this a track car and for the time being I am required to pass inspection so a cat is mandatory. That may change in the future. And if it does and I'm able to upgrade, is there a 3" system out there custom made for the Daytona?

Moe

Super50 is a hybrid, its a T3/T4.

TU and FWD all have 2.5 and 3 inch systems, just need to check with store has what. Nothing wrong with running a cat, I use this one-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=323741&postcount=31
CaptMoe
07-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Super50 is a hybrid, its a T3/T4.

TU and FWD all have 2.5 and 3 inch systems, just need to check with store has what. Nothing wrong with running a cat, I use this one-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=323741&postcount=31

I ordered a MagnaFlow from FWDPerformance...TWO weeks ago!!!

Still waiting...:confused2:
iTurbo
07-06-2008, 07:40 PM
Two weeks? You're kidding right?
turbovanmanČ
07-06-2008, 09:06 PM
Two weeks? You're kidding right?

Not making excuses but she has been at SDAC so factor that in.
iTurbo
07-06-2008, 09:15 PM
Ya missed my point...maybe I was a little vague....These are niche cars...have some patience or order well before you need it. It's not like this is a Mustang and everything can be had from Summit next week.
CaptMoe
07-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Ya missed my point...maybe I was a little vague....These are niche cars...have some patience or order well before you need it. It's not like this is a Mustang and everything can be had from Summit next week.

I was told the cat would ship "tomorrow" and that I would have it by the following week. I can be patient unless I am told one thing and the other person doesn't follow thru.

But this is typical from vendors. Because had she said I should have it in two weeks, she knows I would've gone somewhere else.

And exactly how "niche" is a high flow MagnaFlow cat for a 2.5" exhaust?
iTurbo
07-06-2008, 09:26 PM
/intercom "Attention management, we have a nightmare customer in isle 3"

There are a lot of people that have been waiting for parts a lot longer than you have. Two weeks! Gimme a break!
CaptMoe
07-07-2008, 05:48 AM
/intercom "Attention management, we have a nightmare customer in isle 3"

There are a lot of people that have been waiting for parts a lot longer than you have. Two weeks! Gimme a break!



Stalker...
iTurbo
07-07-2008, 08:08 AM
What is that supposed to mean? Because I go to two different forums (just like you) and go by the same name? Grow up.
tryingbe
07-07-2008, 09:22 AM
Make sure they have it in stock before you order.
contraption22
07-07-2008, 10:14 AM
The 50 trim and Super50 trim T04e wheels are very similar. The difference you will see is that the Super50 trim has a lower boost threshold, (it will start making boost at a lower shaft speed, and lower engine RPM) and it is also a little bit more efficient at higher boost levels than the 50 trim. It's an all-around better wheel.
CaptMoe
07-07-2008, 11:38 AM
The 50 trim and Super50 trim T04e wheels are very similar. The difference you will see is that the Super50 trim has a lower boost threshold, (it will start making boost at a lower shaft speed, and lower engine RPM) and it is also a little bit more efficient at higher boost levels than the 50 trim. It's an all-around better wheel.

It looks like that's what I'm going to go with, thanks for everyone's input.

Now, as far as supporting mods go:

3-Bar MAP
Calibrated SBEC
+40s (edited)
FMIC
Upgraded BOV
and what else?

Basically looking at NEEDED mods to support the larger turbo, not just bells, whistles or other gadgets to play with. Again, my goal is a DD that may see the track once a year...

Moe
crazymadbastard
07-07-2008, 11:46 AM
I am pretty sure you will need +40S to get to 350hp unless you add meth as part of the fueling.
Turbo3Iroc
07-07-2008, 11:59 AM
I think all the 3 bar cals require 40s. Either way with that kind of power you will need them.
turbovanmanČ
07-07-2008, 01:36 PM
It looks like that's what I'm going to go with, thanks for everyone's input.

Now, as far as supporting mods go:

3-Bar MAP
Calibrated SBEC
+40s (edited)
and what else?

Basically looking at NEEDED mods to support the larger turbo, not just bells, whistles or other gadgets to play with. Again, my goal is a DD that may see the track once a year...

Moe

If you haven't got it, a better IC and alky isn't a bad idea but not mandatory. Other than that, TIII"s don't need much more, ;)
CaptMoe
07-07-2008, 03:19 PM
If you haven't got it, a better IC and alky isn't a bad idea but not mandatory. Other than that, TIII"s don't need much more, ;)

I'm going to pass on the alky. Definitely will do a FMIC once I figure out if I can mount it with the oil cooler still on or if I'm going to have to relocate or simply eliminate it. I'd like to keep it though. It's just currently mounted exactly where the FMIC would go...
rx2mazda
07-07-2008, 11:57 PM
you will need a better than stock BOV if you plan on operating in the turbos "happy" range
CaptMoe
07-08-2008, 08:09 AM
you will need a better than stock BOV if you plan on operating in the turbos "happy" range

Noted. Thanks...
tvanlant
07-10-2008, 01:05 PM
Just FYI, I just got my super50, stage II in Monday and will be putting it on over the weekend.
I paid for it on May 13, received it July 7, so you may be in for a wait. Most of the delay was due to Turbonetics' lack of motivation.
turbovanmanČ
07-10-2008, 01:07 PM
Just FYI, I just got my super50, stage II in Monday and will be putting it on over the weekend.
I paid for it on May 13, received it July 7, so you may be in for a wait. Most of the delay was due to Turbonetics' lack of motivation.

Yep, good old Turbonetics, I waited 4 months for an instock turbo, :banghead:
tvanlant
07-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Yeah, mine was supposedly in stock too. I had to call them every day for five days straight just to get them to ship the finished turbo out. Everyday they told me it had been shipped, and they would call me back with the tracking number.
How can a business like turbonetics continue to gain customers with such poor service?
tryingbe
07-10-2008, 01:27 PM
Because people keeps thinking that the super "whatever" trim wheel is always an improvement on whatever they already have.
turbovanmanČ
07-10-2008, 02:05 PM
Because people keeps thinking that the super "whatever" trim wheel is always an improvement on whatever they already have.

Whats that go to do with selling parts?

Turbonetics will always be busy as they sell turbo's, theres a small market so they will always be able to do what they want, :(
contraption22
07-10-2008, 02:24 PM
Do yourself a favor, before you install your turbo take the compressor housing off and measure the major diameter of the compressor wheel to make sure it is 3.20" and not 3.00". I had ordered a S50 and they said it would take 5 weeks to get because the S50 wheels were backordered. Mysteriously it showed up a few days later, but of course, it had a 50-trim wheel not an S50.
CaptMoe
07-10-2008, 04:33 PM
Do yourself a favor, before you install your turbo take the compressor housing off and measure the major diameter of the compressor wheel to make sure it is 3.20" and not 3.00". I had ordered a S50 and they said it would take 5 weeks to get because the S50 wheels were backordered. Mysteriously it showed up a few days later, but of course, it had a 50-trim wheel not an S50.

Thanks for the tip bro. Will keep that in mind...

Moe
tvanlant
07-10-2008, 05:23 PM
Do yourself a favor, before you install your turbo take the compressor housing off and measure the major diameter of the compressor wheel to make sure it is 3.20" and not 3.00". I had ordered a S50 and they said it would take 5 weeks to get because the S50 wheels were backordered. Mysteriously it showed up a few days later, but of course, it had a 50-trim wheel not an S50.

I will be measuring mine tonight. If it isn't exactly what I've been waiting for almost 2 months for, I think I'll be flying to LA to beat someone.

UPDATE: Mine does measure to be the super50 and stage II wheel, so thats a relief.