Front Swaybar Options?

[badandy]

Car is an 88 CSX-T. Currently I have the early style k-frame and am going to upgrade to an 89 dual pivot setup. The car is full on PB now with Koni's/Eibach's CS Racing track bar and neon strut tower bar. While upgrading the k-frame I want to also upgrade the swaybar. I have been hearing that Johnny's front sway bar is not bent correctly causing binding issues. I have also seen where someone turned the stock 1.25 bar into an endlink setup which I thought was sweet.

The only options I seem to have is to find a 1.25 bar and end link it unless anyone can offer any other options available that I am not aware of:confused2:

[GLHNSLHT2]

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f23/121249-upgrading-jbody-suspension-2.html

Pics of my setup and details on how I did it and why.

http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=629

Pics of the PB bar in my car which is similar to yours. ShelbyZ with 89-90 suspension, Koni's and 2801 body correct Eibach's.

You are gonna put the new Energy suspension Lower Control arm bushings for the 89/90 arms in right???

[badandy]

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f23/121249-upgrading-jbody-suspension-2.html

Pics of my setup and details on how I did it and why.

http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=629

Pics of the PB bar in my car which is similar to yours. ShelbyZ with 89-90 suspension, Koni's and 2801 body correct Eibach's.

You are gonna put the new Energy suspension Lower Control arm bushings for the 89/90 arms in right???

Yes, PB ready for the 89 stamped arms at the same time as well as Spicer professional ball joints.

[GLHNSLHT2]

no, not PB for LCA's. The new ES bushings. Guess you haven't seen them. I'll try and post a pic tonight and get my other pics up whre you can see them. Can you see the pics and www.pnw-sdac.org?

[GLHNSLHT2]

http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2998 The Sway bar pics.
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2992 New ES poly bushings for the 89/90 LCA's. I'll get part #'s and descriptions onto the sway bar pages this weekend hopefully.

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok got part #s and descriptions on the process if you click on the 1st 2 pics. If you have any more questions feel free to post them in this thread.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Moved the folder since I found I had duplicate photos. New location. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2579

[badandy]

Good information...thank you! :thumb: Now if I could just score a 1.25 swaybar :o

[MiniMopar]

Slight hijaak, but I find that my 87 CSX is too tail-happy. I've got into trouble with it a few times. I managed not to get myself killed so far, but the last incident put me into the guard rail at 60mph going backwards. Was there ever a 1-1/4" sway bar for the early stub-strut arms or is the PB endlink style my only choice? A little understeer for the street would be good for me I think.

[tryingbe]

Find a swaybar from an 87 or 88 Daytona Shelby should have the 1 1/4 bar you're looking for.

You should get some alignment shims and to put more neg chamber in the rear.

[MiniMopar]

It's already got some negative camber in the rear...I forget how much. The problem happens when I lift. I've spun twice on the expressway now, several times on the road course and I can't even count how many times the back has come around on the street. :D

I know some others with 87s have had similar experiences. Shelby did not upgrade the front bar on these but put the solid bar in the back.

[badandy]

What length is the 1/2-20 bolt?...and did you get the polyurethane bushings from Johnny at PB? If so do you have the p/n? I'm sure they are regular 1/2 bushings I assume?

[MiniMopar]

Is anyone besides me concerned about drilling the swaybar end and having the joint snap off the end? That would be unfortunate if it happened while taking an off-ramp at speed....

[tryingbe]

Quit your lifting! Floor it though!

[Speedeuphoria]

+1 and get some wider+stickier tires

[badandy]

Is anyone besides me concerned about drilling the swaybar end and having the joint snap off the end? That would be unfortunate if it happened while taking an off-ramp at speed....

By the looks of the hardware it is by far more durable than the traditional end link setup. What's to say that end links would not pull through the eyelet in the swaybar for example?...or the end link snapping in two? Sperical rod ends are PLENTY strong:thumb:

[MiniMopar]

Quit your lifting! Floor it though!

Kinda hard to do when THERE IS A SLOW MOVING CAR RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! :eyebrows: Both times it happened on the highway I had to swerve to miss someone. I've done the same with the Daytona countless times (just this afternoon in fact) and it always stays true.

I spun it the first time with the 205/50 R15 Pirelli's on the stock rims and those were plenty sticky. I spun it the second time on 225/50 R15 Kuhmo's on 6.5" Crabs.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack.

[MiniMopar]

By the looks of the hardware it is by far more durable than the traditional end link setup. What's to say that end links would not pull through the eyelet in the swaybar for example?...or the end link snapping in two? Sperical rod ends are PLENTY strong:thumb:

Yeah, I was thinking more about the bar and not the ends. I know that stock bars can break and by drilling the ends you are weakening the rod there and shoving what effectively becomes a lever into the end. Seems like it might want to split open? I dunno...maybe I'm just being paranoid.

It's a cool idea, though.

[badandy]

Yeah, I was thinking more about the bar and not the ends. I know that stock bars can break and by drilling the ends you are weakening the rod there and shoving what effectively becomes a lever into the end. Seems like it might want to split open? I dunno...maybe I'm just being paranoid.

It's a cool idea, though.

You could always get it set and then weld the stud permanently to the bar :thumb:

[MiniMopar]

That would be ideal, but wouldn't you then have to get it re-heat treated? :p

[GLHNSLHT2]

AAAAAAHHH Too many questions! :) Ok, 1st I've been running this setup for over a year now of drivetime. Zero issues. Increased cornering speed by 20-25MPH over previous speeds on the same corners. There's a freeway on-ramp I take from work each day. It's rated at 35, I used to take it at 45-50 pushing the front end. Now the car will easily hit 65 and if I really want to scare myself I'll hit 70. The car now corners faster than I want to push it. I'll be doing it to all my cars but my ShelbyZ has been the guinea pig so to speak.

Russ, as for your lift throttle oversteer issue you need to get your alignment checked 1st. -1.5 in front on each tire and -1.0 in the back. If you want to run less in the front just remember to keep the 1/2 degree split front to rear. Also make sure the toe is set at ZERO!! on both ends. No "it's close enough" BS, when you up the performance a setting that's just a bit off can make a big difference.

Also what brakes are you running? Are you on the brakes when the oversteer happen?

You don't have a 1 1/4" bar on the front? GET ONE! the bar shape is the same from 84-90 so you just need to find a big bar. I thought 86 C/S's had them but I saw one at the Jyard that didn't? Any 87-90 Shelby/GTC for sure. Look at the 90 ES for 11" brakes they got the big bar too. In 87-88 you could get the big front bars if you optioned the car right. So just because it's not a Shelby/GTC, don't discount it. Anyway YES The stub strut cars got the 1 1/4" front bar too.

Russ, a little pointer. These cars drive like a 911 Porsche, If the A$$ end comes out PUT YOUR FOOT INTO THE GAS PEDAL!!!

Andy I did get the bushings from Johnny, But they're regular 1/2" diameter bushings you can buy from ES or wherever. I don't know exactly what length the bolt is off the top of my head. I'd have to get under the car and measure it but it'll be a while.

If I missed anything post your question here, PM me, or Email me. Email is probably the best if it requires a long answer.

[MiniMopar]

Russ, as for your lift throttle oversteer issue you need to get your alignment checked 1st. -1.5 in front on each tire and -1.0 in the back. If you want to run less in the front just remember to keep the 1/2 degree split front to rear. Also make sure the toe is set at ZERO!! on both ends. No "it's close enough" BS, when you up the performance a setting that's just a bit off can make a big difference.

Thanks for the tips. I had the toe set to zero on all four but I don't recall what I did for the camber.


Also what brakes are you running? Are you on the brakes when the oversteer happen?

Not necessarily, though I do think the rear brake pads might be a bit too aggressive...or rather the front pads are not aggressive enough. Still, it happens whether or not I am on the brakes.


You don't have a 1 1/4" bar on the front? GET ONE! the bar shape is the same from 84-90 so you just need to find a big bar. I thought 86 C/S's had them but I saw one at the Jyard that didn't? Any 87-90 Shelby/GTC for sure. Look at the 90 ES for 11" brakes they got the big bar too. In 87-88 you could get the big front bars if you optioned the car right. So just because it's not a Shelby/GTC, don't discount it. Anyway YES The stub strut cars got the 1 1/4" front bar too.

The early C/S was supposed to have the 1-1/4" bar, but that is not necessarily the case it seems. I have been keeping an eye out for one, but the best I have found is a 1-1/8". There is a misconception that the 87 and 88 CSX got upgraded swaybars, but they only got the solid rear bar from the Shelby Z. The front bar is the stock 1". The 89 CSX got a bigger front bar and I think that is why the 89 is a much more balanced car.


Russ, a little pointer. These cars drive like a 911 Porsche, If the A$$ end comes out PUT YOUR FOOT INTO THE GAS PEDAL!!!

LOL...I understand the concept but it doesn't always work out in practice. The last time it happened so fast that I was backwards before I knew what was going on. My instinct to turn into a skid is probably what caused the back to come around so fast but like I said I have no memory of being able to think between the time that I had to react and the time I was rolling backwards heading into a guardrail. :p

[jckrieger]

On my 87 CSX I have the sway bar from my 89 Daytona Shelby (1.25") with urethane front bushings and the car is just as tail-happy as it was the day I bought it. The car has almost no body roll, so it just lets go and away you go.. hopefully not into a wall. I've spun the car around a few times... usually when on the brakes, but not always. I'm all too well-aware now that you can't use brakes on an 87 CSX. I think my rear Konis are set a little stiff so the back end loses traction too easily on typical Illinois roads. The front seems to never understeer... get scared before I start sliding. I've only aligned the front... -1 degree camber and toe is straight ahead.

[badandy]

That would be ideal, but wouldn't you then have to get it re-heat treated? :p
I wouldn't think you would want to do that as it would then make it brittle and crack instead of flexible to bend

[jckrieger]

I wouldn't think you would want to do that as it would then make it brittle and crack instead of flexible to bend

You can also "heat treat" to increase the material's ductility and toughness... All depends on what you're aiming for.

[MiniMopar]

On my 87 CSX I have the sway bar from my 89 Daytona Shelby (1.25") with urethane front bushings and the car is just as tail-happy as it was the day I bought it. The car has almost no body roll, so it just lets go and away you go.. hopefully not into a wall. I've spun the car around a few times... usually when on the brakes, but not always. I'm all too well-aware now that you can't use brakes on an 87 CSX. I think my rear Konis are set a little stiff so the back end loses traction too easily on typical Illinois roads. The front seems to never understeer... get scared before I start sliding. I've only aligned the front... -1 degree camber and toe is straight ahead.

That's discouraging to hear. I guess the rear springs are just too stiff. I have the rear Konis set to full soft and the fronts set to full stiff. I'll definitely work with the alignment guy to make sure it is setup better. Hopefully that will help.

[moparzrule]

Sorry if I missed it but I didn't see anybody mention that the 1.25'' swaybar off shelby Z's are not 1.25'' the whole length. About 6-8'' in from each end the bar is only 1 1/16''. The stock bar in my shadow ES turned out to be 1 1/8'' the whole way. I installed the Z swaybar in my shadow anyway with polybushings. I can't really tell how big of a difference the bar itself made over the stock 1 1/8'' bar because the stocker had crap rubber bushings. But anyway the Z bar with the polybushings in the stock locations made my car handle noticeably better.

[MiniMopar]

Yeah, the early bars were like that. I think others besides the 1-1/4".

[GLHNSLHT2]

All 1 1/4" bars from 86-90 neck down just before the ends. I don't know what the 91+ bars look like.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well Russ, I'd make sure the front brakes are more aggressive than the rears. Get your alignment settings checked and re-dialed if need be. You might also think about getting a big front bar and putting in a smaller rear bar. Sounds like you have the shocks set right. I've never played around with the shadows so I don't know how they handle at the limit or should. I'm just going off how i've set up other FWD vehicles and how I've set up my GLH and daytona's.