where to get quality rotors, pads, etc.

[shrapnel]

Anyone know about R1 concepts? They put together brake packages and sell them on e-bay. Are diamond drilled slots that much better than round drilled slots?

[turbovanman²]

I honestly don't know but FWD sells stuff also.

You want to get Ake Bono, Hawk, EBC, Carbon Metallic for pads and even Tire Racks Satisfied ceramic pads are pretty good, I had them in the van.

As for rotors, I have "The brake planet" rotors in front, there slotted and CD but there prices shot up. I then found another guy and he was reasonable on Ebay but he's gone so look around and look for the name brand of rotor that they modify.

These look pretty good-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-DODGE-OMNI-2-2-MAGNUM-DRILLED-BRAKE-ROTORS-F_W0QQitemZ350066912225QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p328 6.m20.l1116


These are pretty good too, there seems to be pro's and con's regarding slots but so far, I haven't noticed abnormal pad wear? Slots are different than the cross drills BTW.

R1 Concepts (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-OMNI-87-90-Front-Drill-Slot-Brake-Rotors_W0QQitemZ330237890342QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid =p3286.m20.l1116)

[inmyshadow]

Alright, here are my recommendations.

Don't spend your money on crossdrilled/slotted rotors. I looked through your posts to see what car you have, an LBody. You can spend your money wiser. Visit Dempsey Bowling's SLH brake upgrade site.

http://www.dempseybowling.com/shelby/slhpkgs.htm

On my previous 4dr shadow, I used the caravan 60mm caliper upgrade, FWDP 911 pads and 24mm master cylinder. The car had OEM rear solid disk. I autocrossed the car just about every weekend. The brakes never failed me nor did I have a need to upgrade to the heavier 11in brakes.

On my current convertible shadow, I have dynasty 60mm calipers, EBC green stuff pads, EBC rotors and 24mm MC. The car has rear durms stock. My heavier car can't stop. I've lost my brakes from fade twice. Once with new OEM pads and rotors. I upgraded to the EBC parts. It made no difference. The convertible is too heavy for the 10.5in brakes. Thats why I have a complete 11in brake upgrade ready as part my shadows restoration.

This shadow is faster then the last one, yet the current one can't stop like the previous one. I suggest staying away from EBC pads. I got my pads and rotors from tirerack on clearance. It cost me 100 bucks for two rotors and pads.


Anyone know about R1 concepts? They put together brake packages and sell them on e-bay. Are diamond drilled slots that much better than round drilled slots?

[shrapnel]

Any specifics on a 1987 glhs for brakes. I know they are Kelsey-Hayes, but are the pistons 54mm or 60mm? Are the rear drums 220mm or 200mm? I really do not want to replace the master cylinder unless it is necessary. The upgrade to bigger bore pistons sounds nice, but I would stick with 54mm if I have to change a master cylinder.

[turbovanman²]

Any specifics on a 1987 glhs for brakes. I know they are Kelsey-Hayes, but are the pistons 54mm or 60mm? Are the rear drums 220mm or 200mm? I really do not want to replace the master cylinder unless it is necessary. The upgrade to bigger bore pistons sounds nice, but I would stick with 54mm if I have to change a master cylinder.

54mm?? :wow1: I think rigs use that size, ;)

I think you mean 24mm and yes, thats the one the minivans use and cars with 4 wheel discs.

I believe the fronts are 54mm and the upgrade is 60mm.

[fleckster]

I just got a set of drilled and diamond-slotted rotors from R1 Concepts for my Hemi Ram. (They arrived yesterday.) Obviously it's not a race application but with the towing I have been doing with it, the trailer has been working the truck's brakes a little too hard I guess. (I really need to go four wheel brakes on the trailer and that is on the list of things to do.) The Ram still stops fine but the rotors have warped from the extra heat and I'm sure the stopping distance could improve. I have a set of Hawk Truck/SUV pads I'm going with along with the new rotors. I thought maybe they might be less prone to the warping and increase the performance a bit. The other reasons I went with them over AutoZone replacements are that they are Zinc coated so they should look nicer longer (not to mention the look of the drilled holes and slots) but the Chinese sourced Part store units they sell were only about $50 cheaper total for all four rotors and I haven't had good wear out of them. I figured I'd give it a shot. If they aren't worth it, I'll be sure to post about it here! I'll be installing them hopefully today in prep for the tow to Detroit for SDAC-18.

[tryingbe]

For my GLH, I used mini-van front bendix brakes pads, mini-van calipers and brackets, GLH front rotors, dynasty's 10 inch rear disc brake with autozone pads, internal drums brakes, 24mm MC, and dynasty's proportioning valves. This system works quite good for me, and pedal is much firmer than my Daytona Shelby, and of course, the GLH stops much faster.

[turbovanman²]

I just got a set of drilled and diamond-slotted rotors from R1 Concepts for my Hemi Ram. (They arrived yesterday.) Obviously it's not a race application but with the towing I have been doing with it, the trailer has been working the truck's brakes a little too hard I guess. (I really need to go four wheel brakes on the trailer and that is on the list of things to do.) The Ram still stops fine but the rotors have warped from the extra heat and I'm sure the stopping distance could improve. I have a set of Hawk Truck/SUV pads I'm going with along with the new rotors. I thought maybe they might be less prone to the warping and increase the performance a bit. The other reasons I went with them over AutoZone replacements are that they are Zinc coated so they should look nicer longer (not to mention the look of the drilled holes and slots) but the Chinese sourced Part store units they sell were only about $50 cheaper total for all four rotors and I haven't had good wear out of them. I figured I'd give it a shot. If they aren't worth it, I'll be sure to post about it here! I'll be installing them hopefully today in prep for the tow to Detroit for SDAC-18.


Hahhhaahaa, I'll admit, most of the reason I got mine was for the looks, and I like the Zinc coating, even sitting since December, they still look good.

I put CD rotors on a customers 2003 Expedition as he's a late braker and warps his rotors badly. 3 months and so far, so good.

[Polygon]

Regardless of what type of drilling they are, they are crap. Get a nice set of blanks for a street car. If you must have something for race go with the Wilwood set.

[turbovanman²]

Regardless of what type of drilling they are, they are crap. Get a nice set of blanks for a street car. If you must have something for race go with the Wilwood set.

Good enough for Porsche, good enough for me, :hail:

[inmyshadow]

Porsche's braking system is designed to use advance features like crossdrilling, slots and exotic materials. Our cars weren't.

Brake rotors are like heat sinks, correct? The bigger the surface area, the easier the rotor can dissipate heat. Keep the rotor the same size, but remove material from the rotor reduces its ability to dissipate heat.

The porsches with fancy rotors come on are/were designed for ultimate performance based on the speeds/handling they can reach.




Good enough for Porsche, good enough for me, :hail:

[fleckster]

Porsche's braking system is designed to use advance features like crossdrilling, slots and exotic materials. Our cars weren't.

Brake rotors are like heat sinks, correct? The bigger the surface area, the easier the rotor can dissipate heat. Keep the rotor the same size, but remove material from the rotor reduces its ability to dissipate heat.

The porsches with fancy rotors come on are/were designed for ultimate performance based on the speeds/handling they can reach.

I don't think I would agree with this same size, remove material, loose ability to dissipate heat theory. Heat Transfer is more a function of surface area. The drilled holes and slots increase the surface area a bit probably helping the heat dissipation. Again, though, the theory or reason most manufacturers of rotors argue in favor of the holes and slots is for surface gas evacuation.

I just completed the install of the Hawk pads and R1 Concepts rotors on my '05 Ram just minutes ago. I burnished them as instructed on the Hawk pad box. They stop very well. Granted I now have 4 miles on them, but I am very pleased so far.

[contraption22]

I always shy away from drilled rotors because they have more of a tendency to crack, and reduced surface area.

[turbovanman²]

Porsche's braking system is designed to use advance features like crossdrilling, slots and exotic materials. Our cars weren't.

Brake rotors are like heat sinks, correct? The bigger the surface area, the easier the rotor can dissipate heat. Keep the rotor the same size, but remove material from the rotor reduces its ability to dissipate heat.

The porsches with fancy rotors come on are/were designed for ultimate performance based on the speeds/handling they can reach.

I disagree. Why are my motorbike rotors full of holes????? :confused: :p


I always shy away from drilled rotors because they have more of a tendency to crack, and reduced surface area.

I've noticed that with cheaper rotors, so we will see how the ones I have and my customers stand up and keep us updated.

[Polygon]

Well, I'm sure I'm going to ruffle some feathers here. I have done a lot of research about brake upgrades. I've talked to engineers at Stop Tech and I am of the opinion that what they don't know about brakes could be written on the head of a pin. Here's what I've learned. If you don't agree with me fine, but I tend to side with physics here.

1. Warped Rotors:

There is only one way a rotor can warp and this is if there is uneven torque distribution across the hub or3 excessive torque. If you are experiencing pedal pulsation and have even & correct torque distribution then your rotors have a build up of pad material. This is usually caused by improper bed in. Have the rotors turned and re-bed your brakes.

2. Big brake kits will help my car stop better:

This is usually not the case for two reasons. And most of the time your braking distance will increase. Most big brake kits are only for the front rotors. You might think that your rear rotors doing almost nothing, but you'd be wrong. The problem is that the pressure is not proportioned correctly from front to back. You need to get a kit for all four corners that is proportioned or a set with an adjustable proportioning valve. The other reason is that some kits include rotors and pads that are meant for track use. This means that you will never be able to get them to operating temperature on the street and thus they will be ineffective. In fact you'll probably blow through the first three stops.

3. Cross-drilling will help my car stop:

Cross-drilling is a marketing ploy. Cross-drilled rotors are a complete waste of money. Cross-drilling was created about 40 years ago in racing. It was created to combat out gassing. This was a problem that occurred when the pad would heat up and release gas. This would cause the pad to float over the rotor. The drilled rotors allowed the gas to escape to the vanes and then dissipate. Fast forward to today. Out gassing was a pad problem, not a rotor problem and no modern pad should out gas. A lot of people confuse out gassing with fade or inflating flex lines. That is why you don't see any race cars using them anymore.

Now there are also problem with cross-drilled rotors.

3A. The have a tendency to crack and more so if they actually drilled. Good cross-drilled rotors are cast that way.

3B. Unless you get bigger rotors you will increase your braking distance. Rotors are heat sinks. They are designed to convert mechanical energy into heat energy and dissipate it. Since you have removed material by drilling you have reduced how much heat the rotor can absorb. It will then transfer that heat to your pad, calipers, lines, and then fluid. Once the fluid boils you will get brake fade. Also, since you've removed material you have reduced the contact patch of the pad on the rotor, reducing it's grip.

3C. If you want to improve braking then I suggest you get slotted rotors. They will improve initial bite but they will chew up pads faster.

4. SS brake lines will improve my braking distance:

Stainless Steel flex lines will not make you car stop any faster. What they do is prevent them from inflating during braking which will cause your brake pedal to feel very mushy and can make your brake hard to modulate.

It all comes down to get a good set of blank (vented) rotors, good pads, SS lines, and some good brake fluid. If you need a track setup then you need to get a hold a the Wilwood kit as it's the only thing I would use on a track car. Don't forget a adjustable prop valve.

[turbovanman²]

Well, I'm sure I'm going to ruffle some feathers here. I have done a lot of research about brake upgrades. I've talked to engineers at Stop Tech and I am of the opinion that what they don't know about brakes could be written on the head of a pin. Here's what I've learned. If you don't agree with me fine, but I tend to side with physics here.

1. Warped Rotors:

There is only one way a rotor can warp and this is if there is uneven torque distribution across the hub or3 excessive torque. If you are experiencing pedal pulsation and have even & correct torque distribution then your rotors have a build up of pad material. This is usually caused by improper bed in. Have the rotors turned and re-bed your brakes.



I disagree, I am in the repair field and rotors warp for a bunch of reasons-too thin castings, crap castings, getting them hot then instant cooling, major abuse, late braking, wheels that trap the heat in etc.





3. Cross-drilling will help my car stop:

Cross-drilling is a marketing ploy. Cross-drilled rotors are a complete waste of money. Cross-drilling was created about 40 years ago in racing. It was created to combat out gassing. This was a problem that occurred when the pad would heat up and release gas. This would cause the pad to float over the rotor. The drilled rotors allowed the gas to escape to the vanes and then dissipate. Fast forward to today. Out gassing was a pad problem, not a rotor problem and no modern pad should out gas. A lot of people confuse out gassing with fade or inflating flex lines. That is why you don't see any race cars using them anymore.




No one here said CD rotors will help the car stop, we are saying they will help prevent warping. Again, why does Porsche still do it?

Pads still do gas so they still need holes, as I mentioned above, bikes have holes and for 3 reasons, to stop fade, disapate the heat and stop warping.

[Speedeuphoria]

Oh man :blah: , :closed_2:

[Polygon]

I disagree, I am in the repair field and rotors warp for a bunch of reasons-too thin castings, crap castings, getting them hot then instant cooling, major abuse, late braking, wheels that trap the heat in etc.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

I'm not asking you to agree, just stating my opinion based on what I've researched. However, I suggest you read that link.



No one here said CD rotors will help the car stop, we are saying they will help prevent warping. Again, why does Porsche still do it?

Pads still do gas so they still need holes, as I mentioned above, bikes have holes and for 3 reasons, to stop fade, disapate the heat and stop warping.

Once again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone and I'm not asking you to agree. Just stating the information I've learned through researching this out. That being said, and performance car manufacture offers cross-drilled rotors because they sell cars. However, you mention Porsche. They do NOT offer cross drilled rotors on their top end brake upgrade which are ceramic rotors. Also, look into any form of racing and you will find blank rotors. F1, NASCAR, Indy, Rally, LeMans, SCCA. I have yet to see any of them use a pair of cross-drilled rotors.

[chilort]

I found this to be more informational than just about any opinion I've ever read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake

Oh, and I LOVE the BAER drilled and slotted rotors I have on my '86 Daytona CS (got 'em at AutoZone believe it or not). I still run drums out back too. The car stops amazingly well and is very balanced considering what it is.

While I'm not racing the car, it is driven in the Hell that is also known as Atlanta traffic.

The feel is very linear, I can mash pretty far without locking up. The old brakes were grabby and locked up easy. Oh, and my pads are Duralast. I figured if the rotors were going to eat them to bits, I might as well go cheap. I've actually been very surprised at how the Duralast pads have lasted and that they don't throw dust all over the rim.

BTW: F1 uses carbon pads and carbon rotors. The disc, pad, fan setup is about 10" wide I'd say (though they probably use metric --- "go metric, shove your foot up your a$$") and in almost no way at all resembles the brake setup used on any other car or race series any where in the world.

[Polygon]

I trust Stop Tech more than I trust Wiki. I could edit that article to say brake rotors are made of cheese if I wanted to. Oh, and on F1 brakes, you're quite right.

[turbovanman²]

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

I'm not asking you to agree, just stating my opinion based on what I've researched. However, I suggest you read that link.




Once again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone and I'm not asking you to agree. Just stating the information I've learned through researching this out. That being said, and performance car manufacture offers cross-drilled rotors because they sell cars. However, you mention Porsche. They do NOT offer cross drilled rotors on their top end brake upgrade which are ceramic rotors. Also, look into any form of racing and you will find blank rotors. F1, NASCAR, Indy, Rally, LeMans, SCCA. I have yet to see any of them use a pair of cross-drilled rotors.


Me either, just stating my point.

Also F1, Nascar etc don't need holes because there brakes are simply massive and have cooling ducts etc, ;)

MotoGP used to and maybe now does again, carbon/carbon brakes. No holes, not needed, as they need heat to work.

[Ondonti]

Me either, just stating my point.

Also F1, Nascar etc don't need holes because there brakes are simply massive and have cooling ducts etc, ;)

MotoGP used to and maybe now does again, carbon/carbon brakes. No holes, not needed, as they need heat to work.

So you are saying that the real solution to braking is bigger brakes, and that obviously drilling doesn't help enough for anyone to even bother doing it. ;)
Therefore you must be concluding that it makes no sense on any road car.

You bike doesnt have "vents" like a car disc brake so I dont know why you even bring it up. They are not similar, though I know someone using discs like your bike on their car.....

[turbovanman²]

So you are saying that the real solution to braking is bigger brakes, and that obviously drilling doesn't help enough for anyone to even bother doing it. ;)
Therefore you must be concluding that it makes no sense on any road car.

You bike doesnt have "vents" like a car disc brake so I dont know why you even bring it up. They are not similar, though I know someone using discs like your bike on their car.....

I guess you'd better tell Porsche that then, I bet they would love to hear from you, ;)

My bike has vents/holes so yes, I will bring it up, :nod:

[BIG PSI]

Great write up guys......Lots of good information to digest.

I have drilled and slotted rotors on all 4 corners on our 2006 HEMI Charger R/T from R1
I have not had any problems and the car does seem to stop faster.

Chuck

[badandy]

Great write up guys......Lots of good information to digest.

I have drilled and slotted rotors on all 4 corners on our 2006 HEMI Charger R/T from R1
I have not had any problems and the car does seem to stop faster.

Chuck

I don't know about you guys but what I want to know is (aside from the performance increase if any) do the rotors really do a good job of not rusting up? I see they put zinc coatings on them...does it work? how well does it last?

[turbovanman²]

I see they put zinc coatings on them...does it work? how well does it last?

Worth the extra money, mine have it and don't rust where its applied, I got another set for a customr and they forgot to install it, they started rusting instantly, off course.

[black86glhs]

If your in the rust belt, like me, its a toss up. If they are way more expensive than non coated rotors, don't bother. I have seen both on daily drivers and the differences were not much in terms of how fast they rust. Now if it is not a daily driver, by all means get the coated ones like Simon said.

[badandy]

Back from the dead...

Something I have not seen mentioned is drilling (probably more so slotting) is beneficial for wet weather braking...or at least I've experienced it is on other cars...this might be why automakers like Porsche use them on street cars.

I myself don't buy the hype...it certainly looks cool...I just would like to have a set of rotors that don't look like azz from rusting up.

[Polygon]

Slotting is actually very effective. It just doesn't make a ton of sense on a street car in my opinion being that they chew up pads faster. They do a great job of improving the initial bite wet and dry.

Another way of preventing rust on the rotor hats would be powdercoating. It would just be a PITA on one piece rotors.