G head cal and info

[moparzrule]

I'm just posting up sharing my experiences on making a G head cal. I used the CEL flash on knock to determine maximum advance, but you will be shocked just how much I had to add!
I started off with a base cal, the 89 2.2 MTX +40 3 bar cal. When I first started out, I knew this was a swirl head cal, so I took this base cal and added 5 degree's across the board. Well, my car felt like an absolute dog so I got worried. So, I added another 5 degrees. Felt better, but still crappy plus EGT's were sky rocketing even with 10-10.5:1 A/F ratios. This went on and on with weeks of trial and error.
So, I finally have a cal now that keeps EGT's in check (1600 at 15 PSI so far, I have forged pistons) and now I have plenty of low end grunt even with a setup meant for high RPM.. I took pics, I have the base cal loaded and my cal as a comparison. Take a look-
Advance from Map full throttle (base cal had -5 degrees at 0 PSI, my cal has +27 degrees at 0!!!)
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/Advancefull.jpg

Advance from Map Part throttle (base cal had -1.5 degrees at 0, my cal has +23 degrees)
Also note that at idle I have 30 degrees, but at -24 to -30'' vacuum I drop it back to 10 degrees. I've found that upon deceleration the retarded timing keeps it from popping out the exhaust so much.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/Advancepart.jpg

Advance from RPM2 table (added a few degrees at idle rpms, but ramp it up at ~1200, this drastically increases spoolup and low end power in general)
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/87wagon/AdvanceRPM.jpg

[cordes]

How do your changes compare to the stock G-head cals?

[risen]

alt-printscreen will take a screenshot of your current window to the clipboard. You can then go and paste it into paint (new image, and control-v). Much easier than taking pictures.

[moparzrule]

How do your changes compare to the stock G-head cals?

Still way more. The stock G head cal is only slightly different than the swirl. One thing to remember, I'm running a G head with swirl pistons, so the compression is a good bit lower.

[moparzrule]

alt-printscreen will take a screenshot of your current window to the clipboard. You can then go and paste it into paint (new image, and control-v). Much easier than taking pictures.

I do the tuning on my laptop, so it's from a different computer.

[cordes]

Still way more. The stock G head cal is only slightly different than the swirl. One thing to remember, I'm running a G head with swirl pistons, so the compression is a good bit lower.

Gotcha. I didn't even think about that.

[tryingbe]

Would you post your cal file? Easier to compare that way.

[moparzrule]

I don't know how to put it into a folder and zip it...I could email you the BIN and TBL files.

[moparzrule]

I may have figured it out....

[tryingbe]

http://www.aplusfreeware.com/categories/LFWV/PowerArchiver.html

Install that and you'll be able to zip up the files into one zip file.


Where's the calx file?

[moparzrule]

I use D-cal....

[t3rse]

I've always preached the need for more timing on inefficient heads...easiest way to raise cylinder pressures safely.

[MiniMopar]

That's the way you do it. Trial and error a little at a time. Good work!

[moparzrule]

Please note to anyone going to use this cal, it will probably need tweaked for your setup. This is just a lot closer to what you will need than any other cal, will only require fine tuning rather than major fixing.
Also note, a G headed 2.5 requires just as much timing in the full and part throttle tables, it just has less timing in the RPM2 table.

[Aries_Turbo]

so the one you posted is for a 2.2L G-Head?

edit.... nevermind. i just downloaded it lol.

Brian

[moparzrule]

I have a revision here, had a little too much timing from -20'' to -10'' of vacuum, and a little too much in the RPM2 table. It made it miss alot while cruising with light throttle. It's better now-

[Juggy]

I soooo need to get my car on the road soon :) if my TU cal doesnt work too well (dyno tuned from a diff setup) this may be better alternative

I need some chips for 89 SMEC...i only have sockets for the 87 LM here....

[Aries_Turbo]

what chips do you have. sst 27sf512 works in both of them and they are 1.45$ from www.mouser.com. see my cal basics article in the knowledge center for the link right to the page to buy.

Brian

[moparzrule]

+1 for mouser. Fast shipping too.

[moparzrule]

I'm starting to work on getting a turbonator cal together as well. After I get this one tuned well I'll move on and see how the turbonator cal works with the G head.

I got really tired of taking the ECU out every time I wanted to change the chip, so I bought a chip extender and cable from Moates-
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=172

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=64

Hope it works well, just ordered it yesterday.

[amcpacer]

I am currently testing a modified turbonator LM calibration for my G-Head 2.2. My timing should be different from yours since I am running the correct 1985 mahle pistons with the G-head. I am still trying to get it to start up without having to crank the starter for 10 seconds. It also runs super rich during warmup chugging out black smoke. The eeprom programmer is getting some use. I actually used your timing curves as a baseline comparison cal. The laser has water injection so there will be less fuel when in boost.

[moparzrule]

Any update on your testing?

I haven't tried the turbonator yet, still getting my current cal setup so I can atleast just get the car going well. Then I want to try the super 60 roller cam I got from Simon, so it will be a awhile until I test turbonator.

[amcpacer]

I am having difficulty with fuel mixtures. I made a post for help in the EFI Tuning section.

[OnLooker]

has anyone else used the timing tables from this cal? I'm looking thinking of using the in a LM cal for a ghead on a 87 TII lower.

[88C/S]

Haven't thought of that, need to be more comfortable with manipulating data in d-cal. I'm more comfortable with modifying data in zChem.
I am running T-SMEC v15 using the T-SMEC_25_ATX_CUST_G.asm (Justin's cal as adapted by Rob) template and it is way better than running my stock T2 cal. I too have a G-Head with swirl pistons, plus the head was cc'd so I'm running 7.5:1. I was able to make changes similar to Matt's in regards to timing, but the cal already had more timing than that for a swirl-head.

Matt, if you think your cal works for a DD, I would like to try it to compare with what I've been using. Also, do you have any intermittant misses similar to what occurs in T-SMEC under certain conditions?

[moparzrule]

No missing, but this cal isn't really for a daily driver. Use Justin's cal for daily driver, he used my cal as a base cal and he fine-tuned it for daily driving.

[88C/S]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[moparzrule]

It's this one here-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35378

[Aries_Turbo]

It's this one here-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35378

i used the timing curves from that cal in my LM 2.5L G-head cal in my daytona. runs good so far.

Brian

[88C/S]

It's this one here-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35378

Since Justin has a 2.5 and you have a 2.2 like I do, I should be ok if I change yours in d-cal to look like his or is there a better way?

[moparzrule]

Since Justin has a 2.5 and you have a 2.2 like I do, I should be ok if I change yours in d-cal to look like his or is there a better way?

Fueling is different of every vehicle, our cal's will only get you ''in the ballpark''.
But as far as timing, yes just do a comparison calibration in D-cal and change the timings to match.

[88C/S]

Fueling is different of every vehicle, our cal's will only get you ''in the ballpark''.
But as far as timing, yes just do a comparison calibration in D-cal and change the timings to match.

That worked. I am running your cal with some of Simon's and the fueling I had from T-SMEC. No misses! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

That worked. I am running your cal with some of Simon's and the fueling I had from T-SMEC. No misses! :thumb:

Some of mine? :confused:

[88C/S]

Was the 2.5 G-Head cal yours?, if not, then it must be turbo84voyager's cal. Sorry for the mix-up:o

[turbo84voyager]

My cal is a modified version of Matt's (moparz rule). If you use the cal I highly recommend replacing your plugs with a set of Autolite racing plugs. I believe they are AR51. They are only about $2 ea.This is a much cooler plug than stock and my 2.5 g like them a lot! I had to pull timing and and I worked on the startup and driveability issues associated with most cals ( black smoke and stalling at startup, etc). Since each vehicle is different you might need to adjust the fuel. This cal is on the rich side at WOT(10.0 - 11.0). As for cruising my wideband bounces around 14.7. What I have learned is the 2.5 G-head is very tempermental for the street. I can run a cal one day and it runs like a champ, then the change in the weather and it still runs good but I have a much better chance of getting CEL knock. I have since decided to go back to a swirl head on my van. The g-head 2.5 is not a good choice for a heavy mini.

Justin

[turbo84voyager]

Since Justin has a 2.5 and you have a 2.2 like I do, I should be ok if I change yours in d-cal to look like his or is there a better way?

If your car is a 2.2 you definately dont want to run Matts 2.5 - g-head cal. I believe that would be way too agressive for a 2.2. My 2.5 g-head is probabily agressive for a 2.2. There is something about the 2.5 and g's they just love timing but there is that fine line between the correct timing and too much and it varies between every engine.

[88C/S]

Yes, Matt's timing is aggressive but I tuned it down a little for my needs and it seems to run fine. Just not sure if a A/F below 15.xx is ok for fuel table based upon the MAP(not at my PC so cannot look up the proper table name).

[turbovanman²]

Was the 2.5 G-Head cal yours?, if not, then it must be turbo84voyager's cal. Sorry for the mix-up:o

No worries, ;)

[moparzrule]

If your car is a 2.2 you definately dont want to run Matts 2.5 - g-head cal. I believe that would be way too agressive for a 2.2. My 2.5 g-head is probabily agressive for a 2.2. There is something about the 2.5 and g's they just love timing but there is that fine line between the correct timing and too much and it varies between every engine.

If he's running a 2.2 G head, the 2.5 G head cal actually doesn't have enough timing. 2.2 G head can handle even more timing advance. However, you still don't want to start with a 2.5 cal as the base for a 2.2, because there's a crap load of tables that would need changed.

[Aries_Turbo]

if you are running a g headed 2.2L intercooled, you want to start with the 2.2L versions of turbonator (or whatever cal base you are using) even if they are for a swirl head. then you can copy in the g-head timing curves either from a 2.2L 85 Direct Connection intercooled calibration or the Super 60 calibration or somewhere in between depending on what fuel you are running. S60 is pretty aggressive for pump gas without taking into effect the extra timing table that takes out timing based on the engine running pump gas.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

S60 is pretty aggressive for pump gas without taking into effect the extra timing table that takes out timing based on the engine running pump gas.

Brian

Which table is that?

[Aries_Turbo]

AdvReductionFromBoost

its only in the S60 cal.

Brian

[vxvxAndrewxvxv]

have there been any developments in this area?

[moparzrule]

Yeah, look into turbo84voyager's thread, he used my cal to make it more streetable. Knocked the timing back slightly, but he fixed for the most part the ''cold chug'' that my cal has. My cal was not used on a daily driver, so I didn't care. This cal is for MAX power (but still on pump gas, 93 octane), justin's cal is streetability.

[Juggy]

Yeah, look into turbo84voyager's thread, he used my cal to make it more streetable. Knocked the timing back slightly, but he fixed for the most part the ''cold chug'' that my cal has. My cal was not used on a daily driver, so I didn't care. This cal is for MAX power (but still on pump gas, 93 octane), justin's cal is streetability.

bump ;)

need your max powered cal, with justins fix's :thumb:

but for a 2.5!

is there need to turn down the timing as u said the 2.5 cant handle the timing the 2.2 can.

[Juggy]

My cal is a modified version of Matt's (moparz rule). If you use the cal I highly recommend replacing your plugs with a set of Autolite racing plugs. I believe they are AR51. They are only about $2 ea.This is a much cooler plug than stock and my 2.5 g like them a lot! I had to pull timing and and I worked on the startup and driveability issues associated with most cals ( black smoke and stalling at startup, etc). Since each vehicle is different you might need to adjust the fuel. This cal is on the rich side at WOT(10.0 - 11.0). As for cruising my wideband bounces around 14.7. What I have learned is the 2.5 G-head is very tempermental for the street. I can run a cal one day and it runs like a champ, then the change in the weather and it still runs good but I have a much better chance of getting CEL knock. I have since decided to go back to a swirl head on my van. The g-head 2.5 is not a good choice for a heavy mini.

Justin


hey were ya using the taft S2 cam with the 2.5 G head?? or did u start using it when u swapped to swirl??

i have the S3 cam. got a tittties cal for the 2.2 but i had to swap to a 2.5 because my 2.2 had a cracked block :( and the 2.5 was here and cheap and its very fresh with ross slugs :)

[turbo84voyager]

I never ran a Taft cam. I always ran a stock roller cam. If you are going 2.5 go swirl and save yourself the aggravation. If you stay g-head, I would consider getting the head shaved a little. I was told this helps with the 2.5. I never tried it, I just pulled it and threw a swirl on. I would never go back.

[Juggy]

I never ran a Taft cam. I always ran a stock roller cam. If you are going 2.5 go swirl and save yourself the aggravation. If you stay g-head, I would consider getting the head shaved a little. I was told this helps with the 2.5. I never tried it, I just pulled it and threw a swirl on. I would never go back.

ok maybe i got the wrong guy then. i swear someone was running a taft s2 cam on a minivan and 2.5 g head combo.

im not too worried about the differences in the head. mine is far from stock and its been decked .022" since ive owned it. and im sure it was planed b4 hand. but also a lil combustion chamber work that opened up the bowl some. the 2.5 im running has ross pistons and they appear to have a REAL DEEP dish that would give a 2.5 even lower compression. so she will just need some more boost and timing ;)

i just need something to get the car up and running, until i get the car dyno tuned in the next few weeks :eyebrows:

[moparzrule]

Try this cal, this will be my first 72pph injector cal so PLEASE only start out with less than 10 PSI and make sure fueling is not too lean and/or too much spark advance (CEL on knock should be on).