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iTurbo
03-08-2006, 07:07 AM
I bought a new car stereo setup for my Shelby Lancer. It consists of:

Pioneer
DEH-P77DH (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4043_33719,00.html) CD reciever (1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit)
TS-A878 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4087_35549,00.html) 3.5" dash speakers
TS-1371R (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4077_291182972,00.html) 5.25" front door speakers
TS-6991R (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4069_168472238,00.html) 6"x9" rear deck speakers
GEX-P920XM (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_265994847_266617510,00.html) XM tuner (IP bus connection)
CDIB100 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4043_192089315,00.html) iPod interface (IP bus connection)

...and a 60GB Apple iPod video.

I'm wondering what the best way to hook up the speakers would be. I have six speakers but the reciever only has four outputs. Should I splice the 3.5" dash and 5.25" door speakers together or will this mess up the impedance? Also, the reciever is rated at 45W x 4 (22W x 4 RMS). Is this enough power to run all six speakers? I think it would be fine for the dash and door speakers but the 6"x9"s I have are top-of-the-line Pioneer units and can handle 460W (80W RMS).

I'm thinking the best way to do this would be to hook the 3.5" dash speakers to the recievers front outputs, hook the 5.25" door speakers to the recievers rear outputs, and then get an external amp to drive the 6"x9"s.

This leads me to my next question. If I get an external amp to drive the 6"x9"s, would it work to use a four channel amp such as the Pioneer GM-6200F (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_183982242_291568903,00.html) to drive the 6"x9"s in stereo, and bridge the other two channels to drive a Pioneer TS-WX101 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4059_33671,00.html) 10" subwoofer (3-channel operation)?

Somebody please help....I haven't bought an external amp or subwoofer yet and I want to know what I'm doing before I spend any more money!

uwilluz
03-08-2006, 08:26 AM
I would go with the external amp, however, in my daytona... i ran some 4" dash speakers w/ the 5 1/4 door speakers, just spliced them together and they worked fine!

Subliminal
03-08-2006, 09:37 AM
iTurbo,

Skip the 3.5s. They're worthless. Less than worthless, they'll mess up your sound stage.

I've been installing car stereos (not professionally) for about 15 years now. Probably have no less than 40 full installs in me at this point.

Installing component speakers is one thing, where the little speakers up front are just to play the upper frequency range, and the door speakers play the lower range. However, in this, you'll have speakers in the dash playing the same frequencies as the speakers in the doors, but doing a much worse job of it, and also doing it with less power, so the crappiest sounding speakers will be the loudest as well.

In a true competitive 'SQ' (sound quality) installation, you really only need 2 sets of speakers. A front sound stage (read stereo or 2 sets (could be component speakers or coaxial...whatever)) and a sub stage.

In my truck, for example, I have a pair of Focal speakers in the doors and a subwoofer behind the center console. The front speakers play down to about 85 Hz, and the sub fills in the rest.

The less speakers you have, the better defined your soundstage will be, and the more realistic the music will sound.

If you have any questions, feel free to shoot them over. Like I said, I'm pretty experienced in the ins and outs of this type stuff.

PS - Also, when you install the door speakers, your best bet is to get some sound deadening material and line the doors. This seperates the front of the speaker from the back (remember, a speaker produces the same amount of sound out the back, but opposite so it will cancel itself out without a 'box). Sound deadening makes the door into a box.

And realistically, the 6x9s should have the back seperated as much as possible from the front. The bass will show definite improvements with this...well worth it. ;)

shelbydave
03-08-2006, 09:53 AM
What he said.... Actually if you have the room, custom kick panels wiuld be the best. Try to keep as much up in front of you as possible.

iTurbo
03-08-2006, 04:19 PM
I forgot to add that I'll be using aftermarket speaker wiring to connect all speakers because the factory wiring is 20 years old and pretty small stuff.

About the 3.5"; I planned on using them with the reciever's built-in crossover. Would this help or do you think I should return them?

How would you go about powering the speakers (with or without the 3.5"s)? If I get a sub, should I use a high-pass filter for the 6"x9"s? I'm just afraid the reciever's amp will not be powerful enough for the 6"x9"s.

Subliminal
03-08-2006, 04:24 PM
Here's what I would do:

If the deck has crossovers like you mentioned:

Use the front channels of the deck to power the 5.25s in the doors.
Use the rear channels of the deck to power the 6x9s in the back

If you use a sub, use the crossovers in the deck to cross over the 5.25s and 6x9s at around 80-100 Hz. Do the same with the sub.

If I were you, I'd install just the 4 speakers first, running full range off the deck, and see if you're satisfied. The rating on the speakers mean nothing. I guarantee I could blow those babies with 50 watts or run them without blowing them at 500 watts. Pointless.

Anyway, try the 4 full range, see if you like them. Dynamat (sound deaden) all the surfaces so you have the best sound possible. You might be surprised, and won't have to deal with the extra space/weight/hassle of a sub.

If you aren't satisfied, I'd recommend a single sub and a monoblock amp for it. Then apply the crossovers. This will actually give more power to your crossed over speakers, because it is spread out over less of a frequency range. Follow?

Anyway, that's what I'd suggest, unless you're dead set on getting a sub, then just do that. :)

JDAWG
03-08-2006, 04:26 PM
use the highpass in your receiver for the doors and rear speakers set arount 80hz or so, just gotta play with it, get a 2 channel amp and bridge it for a sub, or get a mono amp. Really it depend on what sub you have (how many coils and the imp. it is). Best thing to do really is use amps for all your speakers and subs, really it depends on how loud you want it and your budget.

iTurbo
03-08-2006, 04:30 PM
OK, I'll install the 5.25 and 6x9s first at full range and see how it sounds.

I've never used the Dynamat stuff....does it stick to inside of the door panel or something or are you talking about stuffing the inside of the door with some kind of sound deadener material? What about just using baffles under the speakers?

I'm not dead set on getting a sub just yet...I don't want it booming or high SPLs or anything but I want it to sound good even at high volumes and maybe a bit more bass when I want it depending on what kind of music I'm playing.

Subliminal
03-08-2006, 04:42 PM
I like to run a sub, but it definitely makes the stereo more complicated, uses some room, and the theft rate goes up about twofold. ;)

As to the dynamat or whatever, you've got a few options of brands, but here's how it works:

The stuff is usually sticky on one side and metal on the other. I recommend Dynamat Extreme (get it from ebay for the cheapest), but a lot of other people like a lot of other brands. For teh (ha!) cheap, you can go to your local home depot or lowes or whatever, and go to the roofing section and get a roll of peel and seal. Same basic stuff, but cheaper. Cheaper money wise, harder to install, and a little more likely to peel off. That kind of cheaper. ;)

Anyway, you pull off your door panel, and use acetone or rubbing alc or whatever to clean the metal surfaces on the door, then you basically skin the door. This keeps the panel from rattling, and also seperates the two sections. I have some pics of my van doors done at home, and I'll post one when i get there.

But, you peel off the backing, and start applying it to the clean section. You don't have to use a big sheet, you can use smaller cut pieces, and a wallpaper roller (little wooden wheel on the end of a handle) works well to press it down. A heatgun used to tack up the glue during installation helps too.

I've seen your tedious work at POR15ing, so this will be a no-brainer once you get going.

You'd be surprised at how much better your system will sound. You can't get ANY boom out of your speakers w/o sealing the back from the front. And you'll see how much boom you can get by sealing.

Anyway, i'll post a pic of a skinned door when i get home. I did up my minivan real nice.

d

iTurbo
03-08-2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks for the help! I'll post again when I get some of this stuff installed. I just found out my reciever and iPod interface are on backorder though.

Subliminal
03-08-2006, 04:49 PM
doh!

:(

Force Fed Mopar
03-09-2006, 12:11 AM
I hope you are using an adapter to plug the radio in to the factory harness, and not just cutting off the plug and wiring straight in? The factory wiring is fine for running speakers off of, unless you just really want the absolute best sounding system. Also, if you use the factory wiring and it has 6 speaker from the factory, the wiring for the dash speakers will already be there, no need to splice anything. :thumb:

Even if you do run your own speaker wire, use the adapter plugs to plug in into the factory harness for the power, ground, lighting and such. Also it will keep your plugs intact, if you ever sell it later on, this will help the value, at least IMO. Nobody likes to see a bunch of butchered wires hanging out of the dash. Also it's a pet peeve of mine:D

I wouldn't run the 3.5" speakers though. I'd just get some good tweeters, put crossovers in front of them to keep the the low notes away from them and put them in the dash locations.

There's definitely nothing like having a pair of subs booming away in the back, if you're into that. It adds a lot of extra weight though, my pair of Concept 10's in the box w/ the Alpine 700W sub amp on it weighs at least 60 lbs.

zshadow
03-09-2006, 12:20 AM
the wiring for the 3.5" will be there? when i pulled the door apart looking for the wiring to install the 5 1/4, there was no harness or wire there at all. but in the rear panels (6x9)'s the wiring was there... odd?

iTurbo
03-09-2006, 02:58 AM
No, the wiring is no longer there on my car for the 3.5" dash speakers. That wiring was integrated into the wiring sub-harnesses for the original DEX-77 system with the external amplifier under the seat installed by Shelby Automobiles. Since the whole system is long gone from my car, the wiring is missing too. Only the regular black and grey connectors like every other Dodge/Chrysler. I'm going to use an adapter to connect it to the reciever, but I'd like to use new quality speaker wiring to connect the speakers instead of the factory wiring.

Will it affect the impedance if I wire the 3.5" and 5.25" speakers to the front outputs? I still think I will probably connect the 3.5" to the front outputs, 5.25" to the rear outputs, and then use a two channel amp to drive the rear 6"x9"s. That way I can adjust the balance between the 3.5" and 5.25" and use the recievers built in crossover for them and have better power for the rear 6"x9"s with the amp. Would this be impractical?

Force Fed Mopar
03-09-2006, 09:16 AM
That's sounds like a good plan to me, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Subliminal
03-09-2006, 09:51 AM
Sigh...

I guess you'll just have to try it before you're satisfied.

I wouldn't use the factory harness, either. I mean, that's like saying you shouldn't put a bigger exhaust on your car because the factory one was good enough.

A bigger power wire to your HU will help provide the power it needs to run its internal amp. A bigger ground will help it in the same way. The stock speaker wires are probably 22 gauge or smaller. I would recommend running 10 gauge to/from the deck for power, and then using maybe 14 gauge (wallmart sells good cheap speaker wire in the car section) for the speakers.

Again, why not get the optimal sound out of your system.

And to answer your question, you PROBABLY wouldn't have a problem with impedance running the 4 speakers on the 2 front channels of your deck, but the little speakers are probably more efficient, so again, the crappiest speakers in your car would be the loudest too.

If you didn't order them yet, I'd suggest rethinking them. If you did order them, I'd suggest returning them. If you had them, i'd suggest stock piling them. When all else fails, they MIGHT make good paper weights.

d

WVRampage
03-09-2006, 02:31 PM
I have the DEH-7700MP and it is one nice unit im sure you will like it and also the GEX-920XM and im a big fan of both.

iTurbo
03-09-2006, 06:58 PM
I have the DEH-7700MP and it is one nice unit im sure you will like it and also the GEX-920XM and im a big fan of both.

The reciever I got is actually the DEH-P77DH. It's a 1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit unit. Is the XM tuner pretty easy to control from the faceplate with the GEX-P920XM? Right now I have a Delphi Roady XT external unit. It's OK, but I really don't want to deal with an external control unit or the FM modulator (so-so sound quality).

WVRampage
03-11-2006, 01:33 AM
The reciever I got is actually the DEH-P77DH. It's a 1.5 DIN GM/Chrysler fit unit. Is the XM tuner pretty easy to control from the faceplate with the GEX-P920XM? Right now I have a Delphi Roady XT external unit. It's OK, but I really don't want to deal with an external control unit or the FM modulator (so-so sound quality).

Yeah its easy to control if you set it up for catagory you just use the up down to go between catagorys and then left and right for up and down.

iTurbo
03-15-2006, 06:05 PM
I changed my mind on the car stereo I bought. Instead of the GM/Chrysler fit DEH-P77DH, I'm getting a DEH-P6800MP (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4039_291078777,00.html) It's very similar to the Pioneer DEH-P7700MP.

Biggest deciding factor was the iPod control. After reading up on the DEH-P77DH, I found out the iPod control wasn't all that great and would probably require pressing lots of buttons to navigate the contents of the iPod. The DEH-P6800MP on the other hand has 'full iPod control' with a 7-way rotary control and a much better display, front panel aux-in, more power etc.....all for the same price.

mcsvt
03-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Looks like a decent choice with all those features.

turboshad
03-16-2006, 04:43 PM
Just to say where I'm coming from I've been installing professionally for 8+ years and couldn't begin to add up how many systems I have done with two of them being Clarion demo vehicles.


A bigger power wire to your HU will help provide the power it needs to run its internal amp. A bigger ground will help it in the same way.

Good idea. I have seen an improvment by doing this with the newer decks because of their increased demand for the internal amplifiers.


I would recommend running 10 gauge to/from the deck for power, and then using maybe 14 gauge (wallmart sells good cheap speaker wire in the car section) for the speakers.


10 gauge is a little over kill IMHO but won't hurt anything. You should be fine with 12GA probably even 14GA for that matter. I would put most stock wires at 18GA which is fine for running speakers off of deck power. I have never noticed a difference when changing speaker wires for that kind of power unless it is old, oxidized and falling apart. Running new wires to the doors is cake if you want the speakers there and if you are doing that you might as well run 14 like Subliminal said.

I also agree that the combo of 5 1/4s and 3 1/2s will most likely sound like crap unless you are really into mids and highs. The stage itself probably won't matter b/c is will suck with stock locations anyway but the sound will probably be dreadful especially with no sub.

Personally I would cross over the 6x9s at 80-100hz like Subliminal said but run the 5 1/4s at around 200 especially if they are in the doors. They tend to get a little muddy b/c there isn't sufficiant back pressure to control the cone at lower frequencies. If they were in kicks it would be a different story.

Just my 2 cents but for the most part you should be fine.


DJ

WVRampage
03-16-2006, 11:57 PM
I changed my mind on the car stereo I bought. Instead of the GM/Chrysler fit DEH-P77DH, I'm getting a DEH-P6800MP (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4039_291078777,00.html) It's very similar to the Pioneer DEH-P7700MP.

Biggest deciding factor was the iPod control. After reading up on the DEH-P77DH, I found out the iPod control wasn't all that great and would probably require pressing lots of buttons to navigate the contents of the iPod. The DEH-P6800MP on the other hand has 'full iPod control' with a 7-way rotary control and a much better display, front panel aux-in, more power etc.....all for the same price.

As long as it is a pioneer you will be happy I started out a few years back with a 150 dollar one I cant remeber the number then I removed it and put in my bros car and got the DEH 33 from walmart and it has been in my rampage ever since. I had a DEH 3500 on my srt-4 then the wrangler when I traded wheel hop and all the wheeling the jeep did and it never skiped, got rid of the jeep to get something beter on gas and ended up with a cavy after a year of boring stock it now has the DEH7770MP in it and both the rampage and the cavy have the XM reciver. The rampage has 3 way 6.5 pioneers in the doors 3 way 6x9 pioneers in the rear and 2 10 inch rockford punch HE subs with a 300 watt jenson amp at this time and it sounds great and looks great in it.

iTurbo
03-17-2006, 08:13 AM
If I upgrade the power wiring for the reciever, would I do the switched power wire or the constant power wire or both? Where would I splice into for the power wiring (behind fuse panel??)? Should I run a ground wire right to the battery?

I might be relocating the battery to the passenger side inner fender, right above where the charcoal canister was. I'll be getting new battery/starter cabling, but is there an aftermarket battery terminal I can use that would make it easier to install amplifier wiring?

WVRampage
03-17-2006, 09:26 AM
If I upgrade the power wiring for the reciever, would I do the switched power wire or the constant power wire or both? Where would I splice into for the power wiring (behind fuse panel??)? Should I run a ground wire right to the battery?

I might be relocating the battery to the passenger side inner fender, right above where the charcoal canister was. I'll be getting new battery/starter cabling, but is there an aftermarket battery terminal I can use that would make it easier to install amplifier wiring?

Constant power fon the battery and the terminals are what ever you choose and like working with,as for ground anything seel with work just make sure its clean and tight.

turboshad
03-17-2006, 11:41 AM
If I upgrade the power wiring for the reciever, would I do the switched power wire or the constant power wire or both? Where would I splice into for the power wiring (behind fuse panel??)? Should I run a ground wire right to the battery?

You only need to upgrade the constant power. It can be run to one of the large gauge constant wires in the column (Red or Pink I believe) or to the fuse panel. In the past I have used an empty fuse slot that has a constant hot side. Just but the cold side, attatch your wire and put in the appropriate fuse. Then your radio also has it's own fuse.

For the ground it is best to keep it as short as possible so making a good ground close to the deck is preferable. There should be some metal bracing close by and make sure you have a good connection and it is tight. There are more problems from bad grounds than anything.

DJ

iTurbo
03-21-2006, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the tips on wiring. So far I have everything that I ordered except for the XM tuner. I'm going to wait for that to get here so I can install everything at once for minimal hassle.

I had thought about installing new speaker wire, but I'm going to wait until I redo the interior with new carpet. For now, I'll just use the factory wiring harness except for the power/ground wiring.

I lucked out when I got my reciever. I had originally ordered the Chrysler/GM fit DEH-P77DH. That turned out to be on back-order, so I ordered the DEH-P6800MP. It turns out the place I ordered it from accidentally sent me a DEH-P8600MP which is WAAAAY nicer! It has the color OEL display, 13-band graphic equalizer, separate crossovers for front/rear/sub, and 'AutoEQ' feature that comes with a microphone that straps to the front headrest for real time analyization of the interior acoustics and automated EQ settings.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4039_63891892,00.html?olderModel=Y

It retails for over twice as much as the DEH-P6800MP that I ordered! I was tempted to send it back and get the one I actually ordered because this one doesn't play AAC files and there is no built-in auxilliary input, but other than that it's much nicer.

iTurbo
03-22-2006, 02:09 PM
Ok this morning I got around to installing the new reciever and the iPod interface in my Shelby Lancer. I used a Scosche factory wiring harness adapter connect the reciever except for the constant power and ground. I found a small space in the dash just below the radio compartment that had two unused connectors. I believe they were the hookups for the original Pioneer stereo system installed by Shelby. One of the plugs is a large square 4-wire connector similar to the connectors on the steering column. It looks like it might have been used for a relay to control the power for the original stereo but that's just a guess. One of the wires was red and very thick like the power feeds that go to the fuse panel. I checked it with my volt meter and it was a constant power feed. I spliced the recievers constant power wire in there because it was very close to the stereo itself. The recievers ground wire already had an eyelet terminal attached so I screwed it down tight to a metal bracket below/behind the cupholder.

I installed the iPod interface to the carpet using the supplied sticky back velcro strips. I attached it in front of the center console out of sight ahead of the shifter mechanism. I connected the constant power lead for it to the Scosche wiring harness adapter's constant power lead which I didn't use for the reciever. I attached the ground to the same bracket I attached the reciever's ground to. Since the iPod interface is so close to the reciever, the IP-bus cable was too long and I had to bundle most of it up and secure it with a tie strap. I have the dock connector going right up into the glovebox.

I'm still learning how to use the thing but it seems pretty easy to control so far. It seems to access the iPod very quickly and the sound quality is excellent.

Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have the new speakers in. I've decided not to mess with the 3.5" at all and I'm starting to think I won't need a subwoofer either.

iTurbo
03-22-2006, 09:06 PM
I got the 6"x9"s in. What a PITA!!!! They BARELY fit into the openings, but once they were in they screwed right down and I was able to fit the stock grill back on without a problem. One of the screws was so close to the rear trim I had to use a 90' phillips screwdriver on it. The factory sound deadening material was still there and intact.

The 5.25" wouldn't fit the doors at all. I was hoping that 6.5" might fit but I don't think there's any room at all. The magnet is so large on the new 5.25" (TS-A1371R) that it hits the power window mechanism. It might fit if I use some washers to space it out about 1/4" though. So I'm stuck using the 6-year old TS-A1345s I got from Walmart a few years back. Even with these the clearance is so tight it looks like the magnet might actually be touching the window track...

I'm pretty sure the 3.5"s I got (TS-A878) will not fit at all even if I did decide to use them. The magnet is so much larger than the original Pioneers (TS-A575) that it would hit the gauge cluster. Plenty of room on the passenger side though. I also found that minor grinding would be required to fasten them to the stock grilles.

I get the XM tuner on Friday. I plan on installing it under the passenger front seat so it's out of sight and the antenna is easier to route to the top of the hatchback or roof.

This reciever I got has separate HPF for the front and rear. Not sure if I should bother using it if I'm not using a sub?

CletusJones
03-24-2006, 10:02 AM
I'm pretty sure the 3.5"s I got (TS-A878) will not fit at all even if I did decide to use them. The magnet is so much larger than the original Pioneers (TS-A575) that it would hit the gauge cluster. Plenty of room on the passenger side though. I also found that minor grinding would be required to fasten them to the stock grilles.
You could always go with something thinner like these.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yeKJTcHG11W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=023ODX352A&i=023ODX352A

iTurbo
03-24-2006, 06:25 PM
I've come to the conclusion that the iPod control on this DEH-P8600MP really SUCKS! It controls the iPod via the IP-Bus as an 'external unit'. You can't scroll through album/artist lists with the data wheel. It only shows the first 8 characters of the artist/album/title and the display doens't scroll to let you see the rest of it. There is a button you push to search by genre, artist, album, or playlist. Once you select the search method, you can push the 7-way data wheel upwards or downwards (no scrolling) to select which artist/album you are looking for alphabetically and then push the wheel left or right to select the song. LOTS OF BUTTON PUSHING!!! I can't imagine using it in traffic. It might be OK if I had an iPod Nano or a smaller library, but my 30GB+ collection is way too big to find anything efficiently.

I've decided to order a Pioneer DEH-P6800MP like I had originally wanted. This unit controls the iPod via the IP-Bus with 'Full Control'. It too has a '7-way Rotary Commander' and they advertise it as working just like the iPod's click wheel. It even displays 16 characters instead of 8, and will display 3 lines of information (artist/album/title) like the iPod. I'm going to put this 8600 in my Omni instead because I really only listen to XM radio in that car while at work.

If you are thinking about getting an iPod for your car, research the control functions of the head unit before you buy! If you are getting a Pioneer headunit, DO NOT get one that controls the iPod with 'external control'!

CletusJones
03-25-2006, 01:58 PM
Why not just get one of these (http://www.sendstation.com/us/products/pocketdock/lineout-usb.html) and use your ipod on the aux input? I don't mind it at all, I think it's actually easier to use because I can hold the ipod in my hand and not have to fidget with the radio at the same time.

iTurbo
03-25-2006, 03:38 PM
The 8600 reciever I got doesn't have built-in aux-input. I got the iPod interface (CD-IB100) because I didn't want any exposed cables/wires hanging around in front of the dash and I wanted to keep the iPod in the glove box out of sight and safe from getting bumped and scratched up.

The 6800 reciever I just ordered does have a built-in aux-input on the front panel, but the iPod control should be a lot better with it so hopefully I won't need it.