Worst cam lobe ever

[iTurbo]

So today I decide I'm going to finish up my white Spirit R/T so I can finally drive it for once with some boost. I bought it on eBay with a bad turbo which I just replaced. It was also a little noisy on the top end which I assumed was either one or more bad lifters or some missing lifter discs. So I take the intake rocker shaft off and I find this:

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03840.JPG

...and this:

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03842.JPG

Looks like the pin on that rocker started walking out, then seized up and the rest is history. It appears to be worn all the way down to the base circle! Fortunately I have a good stock intake cam and replacement rocker arm and even a set of new lifters...but now I gotta pull the head just to replace the cam. Good grief.:banghead:

What is really frustrating is that the cams both look excellent except for that one lobe. They even have a dry film lubricant on them(!).

[iTurbo]

OK, got an idea for a temp fix....what if I take the offending rocker arm and use a Dremel tool outfitted with a cutoff wheel to remove the roller portion, and then reinstall it? Sure the car will only run on 15 valves, but at least there wouldn't be any further wear and the oiling hole on the rocker shaft would be covered so the oil pressure wouldn't be affected. Normally I wouldn't consider doing something like this but I'm moving next month and I don't have time for this!

I actually got the idea for this from my other R/T. Back when I bought it years ago, it had a similar problem (broken rocker/gouged cam). The previous mechanic that worked on it simply cutoff the roller portion and reinstalled it....I had no idea it was running on 15 valves until I pulled the vulva covers for the first time. That is why I had to get regrinds for that car...Sucks that the second R/T I buy has the exact same problem.

[raccoon]

lol dont do the 15 valve thing just fix it right.

[87glhs232]

Holy feck mang! Ouch! Hmm...temp fix, temp fix...build up the lobe with JB weld? :D

[iTurbo]

Here is a picture of the rocker (sans roller) from my first (red) R/T:

http://www.turbosedan.com/spirit/DSC00960.JPG

I actually kept that rocker, and thought about installing it on my white one, but it's a left hand rocker and the one that broke this time is a right hand rocker.

[iTurbo]

Holy feck mang! Ouch! Hmm...temp fix, temp fix...build up the lobe with JB weld? :D

Oh yeah, I like that one. I'll even add some lift while I'm at it:D

[JamesL]

lol dont do the 15 valve thing just fix it right.

Normally I'd agree with this sentiment. If your moving really soon and don't have a day to set aside and fix it....who knows what else you'll find... your temp fix will allow you to move it without having to push it.:clap:

[iTurbo]

:thumb:Well alright then! Go Go gadget dremel

[turbovanman²]

You could do what someone else found when they bought an R/T, just remove the rocker arm and use a piece of tubing in place of it, :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

that sucks, I don't know how you guys drive those cars. I'd throw the whole thing away if I saw that.

[Pat]

that sucks, I don't know how you guys drive those cars. I'd throw the whole thing away if I saw that.


Let me know when you put your trash out!:D

[overlordsshadow]

Me and some buddies are high right now and don't believe that F%^&ing happened!

We did do a skyline power steering pump in 1.25 hours, what is book time?

[iTurbo]

LOL, yeah it was about 4.20pm when I made the gruesome discovery! Unfortunately I wasn't equipped to celebrate the occasion.:evil:

I must have spent 1/2 hour trying to dig pieces of lifters out from under the cam. The stock lifters aren't in the best shape and fell right out of the bores as I lifted the shafts out of the head. Lifters pieces and discs all over the place and not enough hands to keep it together. I did manage to find all the pieces though, so I know it wasn't missing anything and the tapping sounds that I was hearing at ~2500 RPM+ must have been the bad roller. I'm getting up early tomorrow and am hell bent on having it running by the end of the day! Even if it is with a TII turbo and 15 valves!!

[moparzrule]

Nothing wrong with the 15 valve idea if you just use it to move the car around. It can't harm anything, it's not like the cylinder won't be firing and raw fuel would be washing down the cylinder or anything. It simply won't have the exhaust flow to make good power, but thats beside the point he just wants to be able to move the car.
Heck in all honesty the 1 valve opening on a lotus head probably flows as much as a stock 8V swirl head exhaust port :rolleyes:

[turbovanman²]

We did do a skyline power steering pump in 1.25 hours, what is book time?

I did one for ICBC and book time was 1.3 hours.

[overlordsshadow]

---- Simon you are magic. I told my buddies that you would be the guy who answered us with the booktime! I told them it would be you!

[Turbo224]

Wow that is a bad cam! Too bad the dry film lub job was just a big waste. Not much you can do for pins working themselves out.

Here is another thought, cant you pop the plugs out of the drivers side of the head and pull the cams out that way? I was under the impression that this was possible. If not I dont think it would be a ton of work to just unbolt the motor mounts and exhaust and lift the motor up a bit so the cams can slide out the passenger side. I guess you would have to pull the axle as well with that idea. Maybe the 15v idea isn't so bad after all.....

[2.216VTurbo]

My guess, you won't even notice the 15V difference. Someone on here (or that lesser site) bought a TIII, ran it forever and discovered that someone had done exactly what you propose. No noises, no power loss, no trouble at all. They just pulled the VC for some other reason and found the half rocker... It will certainly take care of that valve train noise you've had:D

[nBALLS]

that sucks, I don't know how you guys drive those cars. I'd throw the whole thing away if I saw that.

You are such a Masi snob Jay. http://smiliesftw.com/x/laugh.gif

[iTurbo]

My guess, you won't even notice the 15V difference. Someone on here (or that lesser site) bought a TIII, ran it forever and discovered that someone had done exactly what you propose. No noises, no power loss, no trouble at all. They just pulled the VC for some other reason and found the half rocker... It will certainly take care of that valve train noise you've had:D

Alan, I think that might have been me. Years ago I discovered a castrated rocker on my red R/T. It had been running great on 15 valves and I had no idea until I pulled the covers. In that case, it was a disabled exhaust valve. On my white one, it will have one disabled intake valve. Not sure if it will cause a problem, but I have a hunch I probably won't even notice, especially with the boost set low.

[2.216VTurbo]

Man Germ, you're bad luck for the TIII valvetrain:D

There was another recently though, remeber someone pulled the covers and someone had put spacer in place of like 8 of the valves. I bet car was a rocketship:(...

[overlordsshadow]

Simon was that a turbo or N/A skyline?

[iTurbo]

Wow that is a bad cam! Too bad the dry film lub job was just a big waste. Not much you can do for pins working themselves out.

Here is another thought, cant you pop the plugs out of the drivers side of the head and pull the cams out that way? I was under the impression that this was possible. If not I dont think it would be a ton of work to just unbolt the motor mounts and exhaust and lift the motor up a bit so the cams can slide out the passenger side. I guess you would have to pull the axle as well with that idea. Maybe the 15v idea isn't so bad after all.....

I'm going to look into that. I've talked to Jackson on the phone about sliding them out through the driver's side of the head, so I'm sure it's possible. I even have a new cam plug to put back in. Thankfully it's the intake cam so I have a little more clearance than I would if it were the exhaust cam. What is the best way to remove the cam plug? I really don't want to damage the head at all.

[iTurbo]

Man Germ, you're bad luck for the TIII valvetrain:D

There was another recently though, remeber someone pulled the covers and someone had put spacer in place of like 8 of the valves. I bet car was a rocketship:(...

Hahah everybody in real life calls me Jerm. I remember that 8v R/T...had to laugh when I saw it because it reminded me of my red R/T.

[iTurbo]

10 mins with the Dremel and:

http://www.turbosedan.com/spirit/DSC03844.JPG

eww..

[Turbo3Iroc]

I haven't seen this before but I've heard you can jack up the engine enough leaving only the trans mount connected to do a cam swap. Might be a bit more difficult if it was the exh cam.

[Turbo224]

I'm going to look into that. I've talked to Jackson on the phone about sliding them out through the driver's side of the head, so I'm sure it's possible. I even have a new cam plug to put back in. Thankfully it's the intake cam so I have a little more clearance than I would if it were the exhaust cam. What is the best way to remove the cam plug? I really don't want to damage the head at all.

I believe they are just pressed in there. I am sure a screw driver on the back side would be able to pop them out. I know Bansheenut figured out that his cam plugs were not in the ends of the cams after he had the car all back together. He was able to popped those head plugs with out any problem to get to the cams. I think thats what I would do if I were you.

[86Shelby]

Toss the rocker on and run it for now.

[turbovanman²]

Simon was that a turbo or N/A skyline?

Turbo, AWD.

[turbovanman²]

What is the best way to remove the cam plug? I really don't want to damage the head at all.

I just tap one side in and flip it out like a coin, or drill a small hole and use my slide hammer.

[dds78910]

Wow! That cam sure does have a low spot in it! Where are you moving to Jermey?

[iTurbo]

I just tap one side in and flip it out like a coin

OK, I was hoping that would work. I seem to be the grim reaper of TIII heads so I was afraid to damage it even more. I decided to install my set of new lifters too (well 15 anyway), mostly since the OEM lifters are practically impossible to reinstall when they won't stay in the rocker arms. The new lifters make it so easy to install the rocker shafts without parts flying all over the place.

Hey Dustin, I'm moving back to Gillette next month. The job market in Laramie is crap, and the living expenses are even worse! I moved to Laramie to go to school but between what I was making working two jobs and the rent/utilites, school continues to be a pipe dream. I got a good job offer back in Gillette that was too much to refuse, plus I'll still have enough time to go to the community college there. You still in Nevada?

[karlak]

8191

8192

8193

The 12 valve........

[dds78910]

.Hey Dustin, I'm moving back to Gillette next month. The job market in Laramie is crap, and the living expenses are even worse! I moved to Laramie to go to school but between what I was making working two jobs and the rent/utilites, school continues to be a pipe dream. I got a good job offer back in Gillette that was too much to refuse, plus I'll still have enough time to go to the community college there. You still in Nevada?

Yep I'm still here in Nevada, in September itwill be 4 years that I have been here. I do like it here, for a small community it has a huge interest in racing and is in the middle between Reno (where Summit Racing is at) and Salt Lake City. But now that I have a family now I would like to be closer to my parents, so maybe in a couple years when some cars are paid off we mught move to SLC or even back to Gillette. Well see, Ive been looking in both places. It is easier to find better paying jobs in Gillette, but I have been at my job for almost 4 years and maxed out in pay so if I leave I will take a 8-10 dollar and hour pay cut.:(

[turbovanman²]

OK, I was hoping that would work. I seem to be the grim reaper of TIII heads so I was afraid to damage it even more. I decided to install my set of new lifters too (well 15 anyway), mostly since the OEM lifters are practically impossible to reinstall when they won't stay in the rocker arms. The new lifters make it so easy to install the rocker shafts without parts flying all over the place.



Wheel bearing grease, thats how I do it.

[86Shelby]

Wheel bearing grease, thats how I do it.

+1. :thumb: Slather the shaft in WB grease then put the rockers on. Holds everything still during assembly and provides a little extra protection for that first startup since the shafts are empty of oil.

[JamesL]

+1. :thumb: Slather the shaft in WB grease then put the rockers on. Holds everything still during assembly and provides a little extra protection for that first startup since the shafts are empty of oil.

Make sure you change your oil filter soon after that.

[iTurbo]

Normally I'd agree with this sentiment. If your moving really soon and don't have a day to set aside and fix it....who knows what else you'll find... your temp fix will allow you to move it without having to push it.:clap:

Bingo! I got the car running yesterday. Started right up and sounded just great....at first. But now that the turbo actually functions, I can put enough load on the engine to hear what sounds like a bad rod bearing. Well at least now I can drive on a trailer.

Don't know what I'll do now....I have a nice rebuilt 2.5L TIII shortblock that I was going to put in my SL. I'm not sure if I should put it in the white R/T now and just keep the SL the way it is or what??